Federal Bill Would Mandate Anti-Theft 'Kill Switch' in All Smartphones

[Eraserhead]

Honestly this is a non starter. Just like Apple's iCloud and find my iPhone it will be beaten in no time at all.

Just yesterday A friend of mine was lucky enough to track down her stolen iPhone 5s. The thief had it all signed into a new Apple ID and iCloud account so she couldn't restore and get her iPhone back to being hers. She came to me for help, i've been an Apple/Mac tech for years and in 5 min tops I had it all figured out and was able to restore her iPhone to "stock" so she could sign into her account and continue on with life.

We all are here on a tech board and as such I'm surprised no one sees it this way.

NO tech developed to stop people will ever work for long. Too many smart people in the world that can find a way.

I might be a new poster here but I'm a long time reader.

Big thanks Arn, you the man!

CanadianThomas

If phone thieves were truly smart they'd do something less risky and more lucrative.

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The kill switch hardware and s/w + network to ensure the switch can be activated 24/7 + the paperwork and administrative work to prove to certify will cost each manufacturer will cost a lot, esp. for companies that make lots of models and update them often and don't have big data farms like Apple. You'd be shocked how much regulation compliance alone cost businesses.

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It's there for some of the big companies like Apple and Microsoft, but we are not really talking about them here b/c both already have their own infrastructure for their products. But most Android manufactures do not b/c it's a more open system. Are the telcos going to take on the cost and liability of compliance? Not willingly. See all those fees at the bottom of your phone bill. Add another $2 per month. This type of legislation only ends up hurting middle and lower income people -- the people who use cheap phones, mostly pay go, which are easily replaceable.

Sure, say "it's not that much" but it's not your money, is it? What is the public policy rationale for requiring a kill switch? I can't think of a solid one myself. Please tell me what it is? And don't say it dissuades thieves b/c they are not interested in cheap Android phones now anyway and it wouldn't dissuade them either b/c parts are money makers too just like they strip cars.

Why not focus your efforts on the US corporate tax code? Now that is insane and also more likely to get you in trouble than only having 99% uptime on your remote unlocking feature.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Federal Bill Would Mandate 'Kill Switch' in All Smartphones

The purpose of a kill switch is to control dissidents, and has nothing to do with theft.

How's that tinfoil hat?

You actually think that the Federal Government cares a whit about smart-phone thefts.

Just take out the 'anti-thief' ******** in the title and you are closer to the truth.

 

[koban4max]

is there an app for kill switch on NSA and obama administration?

 

[charlituna]

This "kill switch" will not stop theft. People will still nick phones and sell them for parts. Pointless legislation. A waste of time and money to push this through.

it's not a waste to want this but it is a waste to focus just on this and not other measures like making penalties for smart phone thefts a lot higher (like even felony level), mandating police/security presence in high traffic areas or places where such thefts happen like subways and elevated trains etc

Truth is that they are likely focusing so small because anything else would force them to fund it, not the carriers (for the blacklist data) and phone hardware/software companies

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There has to be a better way than making the devices rendered useless. It already concerns me that Find My iPhone could do that. For example if somebody died and their family member acquired their iDevice, it would be a pain for them to restore it, if there is even a way.

That is an unfortunate side effect of the system. Then again if you have access to the persons emai, which often happens cause it's on the same phone (and there is no passcode) and even a computer it's not impossible to get a password reset on the account.

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Stupid. How about people just act responsibly and not lose their friggin phones?

Its not always about lost phones. There have been cases of kids running or biking by folks talking on phone and ripping it out of their hands. Also snatch and grabs off tables, home evasions etc.

 

[wizard]

Really stupid legislation. More feel good crap from the left!

Here is reality folks, if you want to curtail crime find a tall tree and a short rope. The universal and timeless answer to crime is to permanently rid the community of the criminals. Any criminal worth pursuing by the government is a criminal worth hanging!

 

[charlituna]

What's to prevent false theft reports, perhaps using stolen identity data? Phone bill stolen out of grandma's mailbox, etc. Brick random peoples expensive phones for fun.

Will a trip back to the AT&T/Verizon/Apple store allow grandma to get her phone fixed?

Doesn't really work that way. I can't steal a random cell phone bill and call up the carrier and do crap because they make me validate who I am before they will talk to me. As for Apple's 'Activation Lock' that requires a username and password has been up on the device via the device. So I can't remotely lock a device that doesn't already have it even if I know the information if I don't have the device. And if it already has it I can't change that information without knowing the password for the account that is already on there

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I don't want the feds making any decision about what to do with the phone I bought with my money.

If I want that feature, I should be able to buy it. Don't shove that mandate down my throat.

Actually in this case they are doing you a favor. Because they are saying the makers should have to put it the systems for you to use, for free

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We don't need a law to mandate this. Google and Microsoft just need to follow Apple's lead and bake something into their OS and all will be fine.

Which they could have already done or at least announced and haven't. So perhaps someone does need to light a fire under them.

And actually MS has done it for certain users via Exchange. Well before Apple ever did. Apple added the feature because of all the griping about how so many iPhones were being stolen and why didn't they do something about it.

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The should have a kill switch to activate the GPS and notify the local police of the coordinates, and send them to the location to arrest the criminal. Just my idea. Makes more sense.

GPS tracking is already in the system. Mandated several years ago for law enforcement to use. And if it's a system like Find My iPhone there is a level of tracking in that also.

What we need is for police to have to take such reports seriously instead of just shrugging, writing a report and telling folks oh well. Yeah I know that that means a lot of money and man power but perhaps if they would do something about it they might actually shut down groups doing this crap for some areas.

And then perhaps a system where if someone claims to have found a phone they can turn it in somewhere and it goes to some kind of clearance house where efforts are made to return it to the owner. There probably is a way for Apple to link a phone to the account and send an email to that person with instructions on how to prove they are the owner or whatever.

And how about mandatory and regulated lost/stolen device insurance, especially for phones.

There are lots of things that could be done that aren't because it's too costly or not profitable.or both

 

[wizard]

An example of the idiocy behind such laws.

it's not a waste to want this

Wanting this is a waste

but it is a waste to focus just on this and not other measures like making penalties for smart phone thefts a lot higher (like even felony level), mandating police/security presence in high traffic areas or places where such thefts happen like subways and elevated trains etc

Typical liberal response leading it leftist police states like New York. The last thing America needs is more policemen with nothing to do but harass law abiding citizens and making sure and legislation passed restricting the rights of Americans leaves loop holes for cops both active duty and retired.

Truth is that they are likely focusing so small because anything else would force them to fund it, not the carriers (for the blacklist data) and phone hardware/software companies

They focus small because it is effectively a way to generate a media event while accomplishing absolutely nothing. Serious how many criminal will be hung due to is legislation? Legislation like this feeds the criminal side of life because it puts the burden of crime onto the victim.

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That is an unfortunate side effect of the system. Then again if you have access to the persons emai, which often happens cause it's on the same phone (and there is no passcode) and even a computer it's not impossible to get a password reset on the account.

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Its not always about lost phones. There have been cases of kids running or biking by folks talking on phone and ripping it out of their hands. Also snatch and grabs off tables, home evasions etc.

The very same criminals that turn on society to rape, steal and murder. Better to do away with them with their first offense. It seems of late that much of the country is looking at societies losers through rose colored glasses. To much effort is put into trying to reform an individual instead of eliminating him from society. History is pretty clear here, the results are miserable and actually encourage crime. Further in on an over populated planet it is senseless to waste resources on people disruptive to the common good.

 

[linuxcooldude]

I could see a lot of potential bad things out of this. Hackers could brick your phone. A bug in the OS bricks its own phone. The federal authorities could brick all the phones in the area if a bomb threat if they suspect a cell phone is the trigger.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Any criminal worth pursuing by the government is a criminal worth hanging!

Substitute criminal justice system for government and you might get more Agree clicks.

Assuming the government has not co-opted the system.

 

[Renzatic]

It's there for some of the big companies like Apple and Microsoft, but we are not really talking about them here b/c both already have their own infrastructure for their products. But most Android manufactures do not b/c it's a more open system. Are the telcos going to take on the cost and liability of compliance? Not willingly. See all those fees at the bottom of your phone bill. Add another $2 per month. This type of legislation only ends up hurting middle and lower income people -- the people who use cheap phones, mostly pay go, which are easily replaceable.

Sure, say "it's not that much" but it's not your money, is it? What is the public policy rationale for requiring a kill switch? I can't think of a solid one myself. Please tell me what it is? And don't say it dissuades thieves b/c they are not interested in cheap Android phones now anyway and it wouldn't dissuade them either b/c parts are money makers too just like they strip cars.

It could potentially hurt those super low end smartphones that produce their own OS. But most entry level phones sold these days are backed up by Android, and for an Android phone to be called Android, it has to use Google services. It won't be an extra fee foisted onto people who otherwise can't afford it. It'll be a feature built into the OS itself, and the only thing it'll need is an active wifi/cell connection to receive the signal from someone's already free Google account.

Once the initial development work is done, the cost to support it is minuscule, costing Google no more than any other security update to Android, and the price the end user pays for this will be about nil.

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You actually think that the Federal Government cares a whit about smart-phone thefts.

Yeah, I doubt the government cares much about stolen phones themselves. But identity theft, credit card fraud, can cost Apple, Google, and the banks millions of dollars a year, and taxpayers millions more in hunting down and prosecuting those responsible.

...and they sure as hell care about that. Specially the banks.

 

[CFreymarc]

My friend had her iPhone stolen yesterday, and she immediately put it into lost mode.

It will keep them from re-selling it, but I doubt they are going to find her and return her phone.

Most criminals are too stupid to realize that they won't be able to sell the phone before they steal it.

And people who steal phones to feed a drug habit typically don't care how much they get for something, so if it turns out it's only worth $20, that's $20 towards their next fix.

These various "kill switches" are only a stop gap to having the phone fenced locally. Typically, most stolen high end smartphone, sometimes withing the hour of the theft, are placed inside a RF isolated chamber, jail-broken, SIM card removed and re-flashed with ROM build for an overseas market. According to various crime statistics the biggest market for stolen iPhones are eastern Europe, Russia and African countries without any solid iPhone distribution.

 

[-LikesMac-]

I may be pessimistic in this case, or maybe it's due to all the news about spying programs, but this seems like it would lead into a way for the POTUS to one day have the power to disable virtually all the smartphones in America. Can you even imagine that? Way too powerful.

 

[Jedi Master]

It's the the phone, it's the DATA

It's the the phone, it's the DATA

Crime, the government has a vested interest to promote crime... Think lawyers, judges, jailers, policemen the list goes on...... Rehabilitation programs etc.

Enforcement, let's put iPhone criminals in the over packed prisons sure why not?

Not sure of the percentage of thieves using or selling the data, I'd love know.

Mandate, well I'm not in favor of it. But could really care less the government has/is doing bigger and concerning things than this.

I will be looking forward to the stats regarding any change.

We this mandate include tablets, computers, smart watches or other places one might place important personal data. Doesn't this deserves the same attention?

Both Microsoft and apple will help you reset a forgotten/unknown password if one is to lazy to check google, what with that?

Not sure who the big winner in this is maybe the banks and credit companies.

Haven't people been mugged or even killed for their tennis shoes?

Rant over I really love and trust the government

 

[arctic]

Mission Impossible had a better feature:

"This device will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim."

 

[Eraserhead]

You actually think that the Federal Government cares a whit about smart-phone thefts.

Just take out the 'anti-thief' ******** in the title and you are closer to the truth.

Yeah. It makes the people happy by reducing crime for very little effort.

 

[Eraserhead]

Crime, the government has a vested interest to promote crime... Think lawyers, judges, jailers, policemen the list goes on...... Rehabilitation programs etc.

I guess the government is failing even at doing that. Crime in the US is down in every category over the past decade.

 

[Gasu E.]

This has the NSA's fingerprints all over it.

The NSA has no fingerprints.

 

[charlituna]

These various "kill switches" are only a stop gap to having the phone fenced locally. Typically, most stolen high end smartphone, sometimes withing the hour of the theft, are placed inside a RF isolated chamber, jail-broken, SIM card removed and re-flashed with ROM build for an overseas market. According to various crime statistics the biggest market for stolen iPhones are eastern Europe, Russia and African countries without any solid iPhone distribution.

If the system is set up the way that Apple's is then it calls out to a server to activate the base software and is barred without the right credentials. So they would have to find a way to hack the whole system to avoid that call out etc

 

[Am3r1ca16]

My friend had her iPhone stolen yesterday, and she immediately put it into lost mode.

It will keep them from re-selling it, but I doubt they are going to find her and return her phone.

Most criminals are too stupid to realize that they won't be able to sell the phone before they steal it.

And people who steal phones to feed a drug habit typically don't care how much they get for something, so if it turns out it's only worth $20, that's $20 towards their next fix.

They would probably sell it for parts. Which could go for $50 at least. Probably even more.

 

[alphaod]

About time!

 

[BSDanalyst]

They would probably sell it for parts. Which could go for $50 at least. Probably even more.

Then mandate a short circuit or explosive in the smart phone when verified stolen.

 

[jclardy]

You are right. I just went to the junkie thief forum on the interwebs and they were discussing how disappointed they were about this legislation. They are totally concerned about the risk to profit ratios being so far out of whack and decided to stop grabbing phones to sell for drugs based off of these laws alone.


Honestly all joking aside I hope you are right. I just lack the faith in the intelligence of people willing to steal my stuff in the first place.

Haha, true. I do think it will have an effect in reducing repeat offenders - once they do it the first time and realize that the phone isn't worth much then they decide not to risk it again.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Then mandate a short circuit or explosive in the smart phone when verified stolen.

You actually think that the case of the iPhone C is made of commercial plastic??

 

[everything-i]

A kill switch is a very dangerous thing, if it is not implemented in a 100% secure way (which is impossible to guarantee) someone will find a way of hacking it and bricking millions of devices.

 

[ardchoille50]

I'd be curious to know at which level this kill switch is located. Does the consumer have control, or is control left to the carrier? If left to the carrier, what guarantees does the consumer have that the carrier won't accidentally kill/wipe the wrong device?