Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[LeeW]

I then slept on it and a couple days later I'm home from my break, back on my 5K iMac editing some photos from said break. I realised how comfortable and content I am when using my iMac/macOS. I think part of moving to PC is that initial buzz with getting something new, but I know deep down I will regret giving up the things macOS provides.

My flip flop struggle is well documented

A Mac can do some things way better than a PC and vice versa but that is a real issue for us. But I gave up trying and moved into the dual eco-system approach.

Yes, I can do everything on a PC that I ever need to do, but damn, for me as a web developer, Windows can just suck my balls quite frankly. Yes, it can do it but compared to macOS it is night and day. Oh, I have tried to use Windows I really have!

But for everything else, Windows is the same or better.

So I have the MBP 13" for work and travel, my PC for everything else. I don't want an IMac, I want to choose my display and I want two of them. Yes, I can still use two with an iMac but OCD stops me, can't deal with two monitors that are not the same.

Whether I have the MBP docked and using my two monitors or using my pc and the MBP independently sitting at the side and switching as I want, it works.

Ultimately I have just found a way to use both without there being a dependancy that requires them to co-operate with each other.

And I can tinker and do whatever I want with the PC, change monitors, whatever.

I am getting involved in workflow soon that would really benefit from an iMac, but I am resisting, maybe if they do an amazing upgrade I could get one and use it on another desk, we will see.

 

[kazmac]

My flip flop is well documented here too, but I have little reason to give Apple any more money or chances.

Shame really.

 

[LeeW]

I have little reason to give Apple any more money or chances.

Yup, I have said that on here, but it is what it is, I simply get more done on Mac on the tasks that actually make me money and I can't ignore that. So I need to suck it up and let Apple bend me over.

 

[kazmac]

Yup, I have said that on here, but it is what it is, I simply get more done on Mac on the tasks that actually make me money and I can't ignore that. So I need to suck it up and let Apple bend me over.

Understandable. If I made money on a Mac, I'd suck it up too.

What kills me is my creativity exploded using Macs, and with the Pencil & compatible iPads. I am being forced away and pushed into learning alternatives all because Apple wants more money and control for less stability, freedom and quality. This is why I have been so upset and torn.

Oh well.

Time to move on.

 

[maflynn]

I'm mostly flipped at this point - no flopping for me I'm quite happy with windows, what it offers and the flexibility it provides. YMMV, but for my needs its been a welcome change

 

[Jack Neill]

That is not a true statement. I have Mac OS running in my GS65 right now inside windows I’m in VMWare.

NOTHING is impossible especially with Windows.

I haven’t tried to virtualalize macOS I years, is video acceleration still a problem?

 

[Queen6]

I'm mostly flipped at this point - no flopping for me I'm quite happy with windows, what it offers and the flexibility it provides. YMMV, but for my needs its been a welcome change

For me Apple flopped, so I flipped. Apple needs to do something very significant to get the custom back, which I find to be in very likely given the direction...

Q-6

 

[millerj123]

My HP work laptop got hit with the search black box bug on Wednesday while working from home. I'm always reminded why I haven't moved on from my MacBook Pro.

 

[soulreaver99]

I haven’t tried to virtualalize macOS I years, is video acceleration still a problem?

Yeah you only get 128MB of VRAM

 

[LiE_]

When you look at what's on offer from Apple in terms of desktop personal computers, you don't actually have much choice. You have an Mac mini or an iMac with a dated design. I think you really have to want macOS to buy into the hardware on offer, otherwise I cannot see the reasoning. The majority (not all) of people who I see buying these either need to run a macOS specific app or prefer macOS that much they are OK with the hardware offerings.

I've come to the final conclusion that I cannot find a fit for a dekstop from Apple.

The iMac 5K has a lovely screen and performs well enough. I don't like the power you get for the price or the locked in hardware nature of the AIO. Contrast this against a custom PC it's staggering. You give up the retina screen, but you also gain 144Hz, faster response times and the ability to swap and change the monitor if required. All other aspects of hardware are very impressive.

The Mac mini is a good little machine, but its iGPU is the weak point. It would be enough for doing most tasks and driving a lower resolution monitor. Ask it to drive a 4/5K monitor and general smoothness takes a hit. Ask it to do anything GPU intensive, it will struggle. So then you end up spending a ton of money to get an eGPU which brings it's own headaches. At this point the value proposition has taken a real hit.



So join me on my journey back to Windows for my computing needs. My monitor I refused has been rescheduled for delivery today and I'm in the process of speccing out a small form factor PC with some tasty hardware. iMac goes back tomorrow.

 

[kazmac]

I've come to the final conclusion that I cannot find a fit for a dekstop from Apple.

The iMac 5K has a lovely screen and performs well enough. I don't like the power you get for the price or the locked in hardware nature of the AIO. Contrast this against a custom PC it's staggering. You give up the retina screen, but you also gain 144Hz, faster response times and the ability to swap and change the monitor if required. All other aspects of hardware are very impressive.

The Mac mini is a good little machine, but its iGPU is the weak point. It would be enough for doing most tasks and driving a lower resolution monitor. Ask it to drive a 4/5K monitor and general smoothness takes a hit. Ask it to do anything GPU intensive, it will struggle. So then you end up spending a ton of money to get an eGPU which brings it's own headaches. At this point the value proposition has taken a real hit.



So join me on my journey back to Windows for my computing needs. My monitor I refused has been rescheduled for delivery today and I'm in the process of speccing out a small form factor PC with some tasty hardware. iMac goes back tomorrow.

Bolded and Italicized agreed.

I was so psyched to finally try a Mac Mini, but the clusterbleep of issues (WiFi and Bluetooth etc), AND needing an eGPU outright for what I do* is ridiculous. Not forgetting the eGPU problems you mention.

Will not spend upwards of $4k for old tech in the iMacs either.

*Hobbyist things not money making.

Right now, just waiting on unexpected bills etc to be paid before I jump back into Windows.

Wish you luck.

 

[GalileoSeven]

When you look at what's on offer from Apple in terms of desktop personal computers, you don't actually have much choice. You have an Mac mini or an iMac with a dated design. I think you really have to want macOS to buy into the hardware on offer, otherwise I cannot see the reasoning. The majority (not all) of people who I see buying these either need to run a macOS specific app or prefer macOS that much they are OK with the hardware offerings.

I've come to the final conclusion that I cannot find a fit for a dekstop from Apple.

The iMac 5K has a lovely screen and performs well enough. I don't like the power you get for the price or the locked in hardware nature of the AIO. Contrast this against a custom PC it's staggering. You give up the retina screen, but you also gain 144Hz, faster response times and the ability to swap and change the monitor if required. All other aspects of hardware are very impressive.

The Mac mini is a good little machine, but its iGPU is the weak point. It would be enough for doing most tasks and driving a lower resolution monitor. Ask it to drive a 4/5K monitor and general smoothness takes a hit. Ask it to do anything GPU intensive, it will struggle. So then you end up spending a ton of money to get an eGPU which brings it's own headaches. At this point the value proposition has taken a real hit.



So join me on my journey back to Windows for my computing needs. My monitor I refused has been rescheduled for delivery today and I'm in the process of speccing out a small form factor PC with some tasty hardware. iMac goes back tomorrow.

Agreed on both machines.

I have a iMac 5K (mid 2015). The screen is *great* - by far the best I've used. The processor (i5-6500) is okay and the ability to easily add/expand the memory is refreshing. The HD is a letdown though - a 7200RPM is definitely better than 5400RPM, but considering SSD prices nowadays........256/512GB should be standard on something of this size. It's a decent machine though that can handle everyday tasks & a little bit of heavy lifting (Photoshop) when required.

The Mac Mini is nothing but a basic desktop with a high price tag. Back between 2010-2012 when the early unibody models came out, they were actually something of a decent value, but no matter what, you're still getting laptop components in a desktop case. I maxed out the RAM in mine (a mid-2011 if I remember right) and pressed it back into service as a HTPC, a role it serves quite well in.

 

[LiE_]

Here's my current spec I'm looking at. I think I want the Ncase M1 (https://ncases.com/products/m1) but it's a tricky case to get hold of. I may get a cheap case as a stop gap that has the same sort of compatibility as the Ncase M1.

Monitor is already being delivered today.

I'm having difficulty picking a keyboard. Mouse will likely be either a Logitech or Razer wireless gaming mouse.

I have a 1TB SSD to add into the build as well.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (£415.65 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix B450-I Gaming Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard (£140.47 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (£213.00)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£119.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB WINDFORCE OC 3X Video Card (£449.99 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: Corsair SF 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply (£123.48 @ Ebuyer)
Monitor: LG 27GL850-B 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor (£449.00)
Total: £1911.58

 

[maflynn]

Apple in terms of desktop personal computers, you don't actually have much choice.

Apple's focus for Mac has been on the laptop segment and up until recently only gave passing attention to the desktop.

prefer macOS

I believe that sums up the majority of [apple] users both for desktops and laptops. I see enough posts of people disparaging windows and/or vocalizing their preference for macOS.

The iMac 5K has a lovely screen and performs well enough. I don't like the power you get for the price or the locked in hardware nature of the AIO.

I have a 2015 iMac, which for me is largely untouched, though my kids use it for their homework. Back when I bought it almost 5 years ago, it made much more sense. Pricing out a desktop computer with similar components and a 5k monitor (or even a 4k) was skewed so heavily in Apple's corner, it was impossible for me NOT to choose the iMac back then. A lot has changed, including the advancement in components that the iMac is not including (they're still using 5400 rpm drives) and display prices have come down quite a bit.

 

[D.T.]

I've come to the final conclusion that I cannot find a fit for a dekstop from Apple.

I think that's mostly the fork-in-the-road for people, it's not so much the OS (MacOS is extremely flexible/powerful outside of the "It only runs on this specific hardware" discussion). I determined I didn't need (er, really want, as it keeps my heavy lifting work in the home office, where it belongs ...) another notebook, I don't like AIOs (I like modular and sourcing my own displays) __and__ I don't need a ton of GPU power.

So you probably know where this is headed, I went with a '18 Mini i7, it's fast, quiet, drives my two QHD displays perfectly.

A Mac can do some things way better than a PC and vice versa but that is a real issue for us. But I gave up trying and moved into the dual eco-system approach.

Yes, I can do everything on a PC that I ever need to do, but damn, for me as a web developer, Windows can just suck my balls quite frankly. Yes, it can do it but compared to macOS it is night and day. Oh, I have tried to use Windows I really have!

Yeah, I spent time back and forth in fully dedicated Windows instance (Bootcamp, and a big nasty "gaming" notebook), enough to realize that even with the current state of Windows, I prefer MacOS, but I prefer *NIX based OSs, and without getting into too much this-and-that, several other things about MacOS (font rendering, cloud integration across devices, etc...)

Anyway, I still have a need for Windows due to some specific development needs (other non-windows stacks I'm on the Mac, ex: Python/ML work), so I went back to using a VM (Parallels 14) and it's been outstanding - I'm using it Coherence mode, so I can arrange things as I want across displays, and it's really only for VS and SSMS/SQL. I've got a primary dev DB moved into a Docker container on the MacOS side, I use apps like Postman on the Mac side (even though I'm debugging an API in the Win10 VM).

Like right now I've got IIS, VS ('12 and '17 doing a port) running in my VM, the web server is using my Docker Oracle instance, and I've XCode open, working on the native client Er, plus on the MacOS side: Mail, iTunes, Postman, dozen Terminals, Messages, Chrome, Oracle SQL Developer, Soulver, Sketch, Sublime 2, Soulver, Calendar , etc.

Funny, my current uptime on this machine is 48 days, but my VM has restarted quite a few times over that same period

 

[TopherMan12]

Here's my current spec I'm looking at. I think I want the Ncase M1 (https://ncases.com/products/m1) but it's a tricky case to get hold of. I may get a cheap case as a stop gap that has the same sort of compatibility as the Ncase M1.

Monitor is already being delivered today.

I'm having difficulty picking a keyboard. Mouse will likely be either a Logitech or Razer wireless gaming mouse.

I have a 1TB SSD to add into the build as well.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (£415.65 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix B450-I Gaming Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard (£140.47 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (£213.00)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£119.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB WINDFORCE OC 3X Video Card (£449.99 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: Corsair SF 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply (£123.48 @ Ebuyer)
Monitor: LG 27GL850-B 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor (£449.00)
Total: £1911.58

Have you considered dropping the CPU down to a 3700X or 3800X and putting your savings into a 2080 Super? Also, is there are reason why you are not going with the newer AMD X570 chipset?

If you find you need somewhere else to save some cash, a 650 watt PSU should be able to handle the load of that system without issue.

 

[LiE_]

Have you considered dropping the CPU down to a 3700X or 3800X and putting your savings into a 2080 Super? Also, is there are reason why you are not going with the newer AMD X570 chipset?

If you find you need somewhere else to save some cash, a 650 watt PSU should be able to handle the load of that system without issue.

I'll look into the CPU suggestions, need to look at some benchmarks to see if there is a difference in Lightroom.

The PSU is very good, I've had a couple in the past and for a SFX PSU it's top notch for the price. There is a 600 version but I'd rather have more headroom so it's running efficiently and keeps the fans in 0rpm mode.

There is a big jump on price for the X570 I'm not convinced the features would make any difference to me, I'm also not keen on a passive fan on the motherboard as a point of failure/noise.

 

[topcat001]

I have a slightly different flip-flop struggle. It is simplified a little by the fact that I don't game. I love my Macs and feel at home using them, but I have some PC systems running Linux/Free/OpenBSD (I have done some work on OpenBSD as well).

On those environments I run my extensively customised FVWM and Xmonad desktops which are perfectly tailored to my preferences. These desktop managers are strange in the sense that you have to write a code config file (FVWM) or straight up code the desktop itself in Haskell (Xmonad) which is not a problem for me (in fact I love it) but it allows perfect customisation.

However, I watch a lot of shows and movies during my coding sessions and the mac is the only place from which I can access every service (Netflix, Amazon, Apple TV+). On Linux there is no HD for some content, and on Windows there is no Apple TV+. My solution is to have a box running each OS .

 

[keeper]

Here's my current spec I'm looking at. I think I want the Ncase M1 (https://ncases.com/products/m1) but it's a tricky case to get hold of. I may get a cheap case as a stop gap that has the same sort of compatibility as the Ncase M1.

Monitor is already being delivered today.

I'm having difficulty picking a keyboard. Mouse will likely be either a Logitech or Razer wireless gaming mouse.

I have a 1TB SSD to add into the build as well.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (£415.65 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix B450-I Gaming Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard (£140.47 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (£213.00)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£119.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB WINDFORCE OC 3X Video Card (£449.99 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: Corsair SF 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply (£123.48 @ Ebuyer)
Monitor: LG 27GL850-B 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor (£449.00)
Total: £1911.58

Dan case?

Dan Cases A4-SFX V4.1 Mini-ITX Gaming Case - Black

Compact gaming case, made of high-quality aluminium in black, supports SFX PSUs & Mini-ITX motherboards (Intel & AMD), dual slot GPU up to 29.5 cm & 2-3x 2.5 inch drives, integrated riser module.

www.overclockers.co.uk

 

[LeeW]

so I went back to using a VM (Parallels 14) and it's been outstanding - I'm using it Coherence mode

I do really like Parallels with Coherence.

 

[GalileoSeven]

I'm having difficulty picking a keyboard. Mouse will likely be either a Logitech or Razer wireless gaming mouse.

Picking a new keyboard/mouse was hard for me too. Wanting to get into mechanical keyboards, the selection was pretty daunting, so I went with the Azio MK Hue at home and then the Logitech G610 at work. You can find the former on Amazon UK, but not the latter. Will just leave you with this (there are also links to other keyboard reviews if you don't want to go the mechanical route)

The Best Mechanical Keyboards for 2024

Ready to experience best-in-class typing? A mechanical keyboard delivers the feel and feedback that ordinary keyboards lack. Here's how to buy the right one, plus our top tested picks.

uk.pcmag.com

As far as mice go, I have the wired version of the Logitech G502. The wireless iteration would be a top pick IMO

Best wireless gaming mouse in 2024: no tails on these rodents

Let go of the tethers and embrace the freedom of living life cable free.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[TopherMan12]

I'm having difficulty picking a keyboard. Mouse will likely be either a Logitech or Razer wireless gaming mouse.

I went through that not too long ago. I didn't care for Razer or Logitech mechanicals, personally. They both felt too cheap for the money. They also have their own switches and naming schemes which makes it confusing. Of course, if you are not keen on mechanical then it doesn't matter. On the non-mechanical side, Logitech MX keys is great for typing on. I use it at work along with a Logitech MX Master 3 mouse. Neither would I use for gaming.

I do like Corsair and SteelSeries. I gave my K95 keyboard (Cherry MX Brown) and M65 mouse to my son and got the SteelSeries Apex 7 TKL (Cherry MX Red) keyboard and SteelSeries Rival 650 wireless mouse. Both Corsair and SteelSeries felt like premium products matching their price.

I've also used Roccat Vulcan keyboard and Aimo mouse, but I didn't care for the feel of the keys as their edges felt sharp. The mouse was ok, but a bit too light for me.

I try to buy keyboard and mouse from the same brand to avoid too many programs governing their behavior in the system tray.

 

[LiE_]

I went through that not too long ago. I didn't care for Razer or Logitech mechanicals, personally. They both felt too cheap for the money. They also have their own switches and naming schemes which makes it confusing. Of course, if you are not keen on mechanical then it doesn't matter. On the non-mechanical side, Logitech MX keys is great for typing on. I use it at work along with a Logitech MX Master 3 mouse. Neither would I use for gaming.

I do like Corsair and SteelSeries. I gave my K95 keyboard (Cherry MX Brown) and M65 mouse to my son and got the SteelSeries Apex 7 TKL (Cherry MX Red) keyboard and SteelSeries Rival 650 wireless mouse. Both Corsair and SteelSeries felt like premium products matching their price.

I've also used Roccat Vulcan keyboard and Aimo mouse, but I didn't care for the feel of the keys as their edges felt sharp. The mouse was ok, but a bit too light for me.

I try to buy keyboard and mouse from the same brand to avoid too many programs governing their behavior in the system tray.

I've gone for the Durgod Hades 68 and ordered some custom PBT keycaps from KP Republic.

I'm still looking at the Logitech G703 mouse, but haven't decided if I want wireless. The last time I have a G703 it was very good, but having a lighter mouse with no need to charge is appealing.

 

[TopherMan12]

I've gone for the Durgod Hades 68 and ordered some custom PBT keycaps from KP Republic.

I'm still looking at the Logitech G703 mouse, but haven't decided if I want wireless. The last time I have a G703 it was very good, but having a lighter mouse with no need to charge is appealing.

Nice. What type of switches did you choose for your Durgod?

 

[LiE_]

Nice. What type of switches did you choose for your Durgod?

Gateron silent browns