From the Newbie: iBook now or later?

[ewgrego]

Hey guys.
I'm looking at buying my first Mac, probably a 12" ibook/900Mhz/Combo Drive.

You guys probably get this at least once a week, but

iBook: buy now or wait till mid-September (Apple Expo Paris)?

It's not that I want to buy something faster than 900...In my mind the, the Combo drive is the crucial bit. it's just that I've seen threads saying that the entry-iBook (presumably at $999) will soon include the Combo drive and possibly some other stuff that the current entry model does not.

Thoughts, speculations?

 

[Eniregnat]

If you plan to use it as a tool, buy it now.
If you need it now, get it now.
If you’re looking for a fun gadget, wait.
No matter what you do, you will find out that that the latest and greatest came out after you made you purchase.

Get AppleCare, a spare battery and AC adapter, and get a good case.

If you’re a student, exploit the discounts on equipment and software wile you can.

 

[Kwyjibo]

I would buy it now regardless, 1199 is a great price , last year a machine with the specs of the current combo model was 1499 retail, thats a huge jump. I don't expect iBook updates in september more like late october early november....

 

[iShater]

I agree that if you need a new system, get it now. I doubt any upgrades to the iBook will make significant changes. And you will love it from the moment you get it, trust me on that one!

 

[dcoltonbrown]

If I were you, I wouldn't spend a dime on the iBook. I have one and it has been in for repairs twice now in the past 40 days. Not to mention the fact that the computer is BARELY 4 months old.

It is a display/ logic board problem that many iBook owners are experiencing...just check out apple's website under support/discussions/iBook/displays.

Did I mention that Apple won't even recognize this as an issue, eventhough hundreds if not thousands of consumers are complaining about it? They just send you a box, replace the logic board with the same faulty product and return it for the problem to occur again.

Save yourself the trouble, get a Sony Vaio.

 

[solvs]

I have not heard of such a widespread iBook problem.

Usually, especially if you have AppleCare, they will replace the system with a new one if your old one fails. And if you're not satified within a certain amount of time, you can get your money back or the difference in prices if a new system is released. Restrictions do apply, but AppleCare is worth it, especially if you're a student and it's cheaper.

It's better than Sony's 1 year warranty. I had such a hassle with my Mom's XP Vaio. My Stepmom's Win2000 Dell, too. With it's one hour of battery life. Not to mention that a lot of the new Windows laptops are more expensive than comparable Apple systems. And heavier. And if you want to get an Apple, don't let one person's opinion turn you off.

The last update to the iBook was in April, so a new one won't be coming for awhile. The next-gen IBM G3 isn't due til the end of the year. The PowerBooks are due for an update soon, though. If you want an iBook, buy one now. The extra 100 MHz will be worth it. If you can wait a few months, you can get a new one, or a 12" PowerBook, but the low end iBook will probably still have a CD-Rom only.

If you are a student, buy through Apple. You can get an education discount, and rebates on things like printers and iPods. If not, buy from someplace like PowerMax or MacSolutions. Low or free shipping, sometimes no tax, lots of extras. Just be sure to buy AppleCare, an extra battery, VGA and TV-out connectors if you want it, and load it full of third party RAM.

You'll be happy.

 

[Abstract]

The logic board problem is true, but a large majority of people are fine and happy. But of course you'll meet people with problems at the Apple support board........its a support board.

I'm sure Sony is just as bad in terms of how many lemons they produce, except they didn't bother putting up a support board in order to acquire help as easy. And for this reason, Apple also provides a better service to Apple users. I also hear that Sony doesn't provide good customer service, period. Dell does better, but their products are crap.


This is what I think of Sony's customer service as opposed to Apple's........

 

[solvs]

Yes, sorry, perhaps I should have clarified the "widespread" part. Some of them have been faulty, and some people have problem with support. But I agree with Abstract. Apple customer service isn't perfect, but it's better than Sony's IMO. And Dells. No offense to the newbie above, it is unfortunate, but this is more bad luck than widespread problem. If everyone had a problem, the iBooks wouldn't be as popular.

As with any product, there are some bad ones. Some of the early eMacs had display problems, some of the TiBooks have paint flaking, but generally you hear more from the people who had problems than the people who don't. If he wanted to buy a PC, he probably would have said so. So lets please not turn this into a "Mac vs. PC, Apple's iBooks suck", etc. Maybe some of you who have iBooks that work can reassure him.

I had a G3 PowerBook, that my Mom now has, that is still working just fine. Much better than her Vaio, that my Stepfather now uses only to check his e-mail.

 

[dcoltonbrown]

Actually, I never had a problem with sony, so I don't know about their customer service. 4 years old, still running strong. My iBook on the other hand - 4 months old and in for service for the second time. Just take a look at the discussion board and decide for yourself. I am just trying to save you from a whole lot of headache in the future. I am not talking about random problems by disgruntled iBook owners. I am talking about a discernable trend with similar symptons and the same diagnosis...a faulty logic board.


Oh, and as for customer service...there is no way that you can convince me that Apple has good customer service! They have lied to me, they won't return a phone call, and 9 out of ten times their information is useless. Their solution to everything is to reinstall osx or to reset pmu. Just because they can turn a repair around in a day doesn't mean that they have good customer service, it only means that they have streamlined their repair centers to turn around all of the faulty logic boards they have to replace. Smoke and mirrors kids, smoke and mirrors!

And I am not trying to turn this into a pc vs mac argument...I should never have brought up the vaio. I just really think you should carefullly consider a $1000+ investment.

But when your display goes out, and your midterm paper is on your hardrive - that you didn't back up because it has only been in their for an hour - and you have to send your iBook in for service - what are your going to tell your professor? Apple ate my homework?

 

[jxyama]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
If I were you, I wouldn't spend a dime on the iBook. I have one and it has been in for repairs twice now in the past 40 days. Not to mention the fact that the computer is BARELY 4 months old.

It is a display/ logic board problem that many iBook owners are experiencing...just check out apple's website under support/discussions/iBook/displays.

Did I mention that Apple won't even recognize this as an issue, eventhough hundreds if not thousands of consumers are complaining about it? They just send you a box, replace the logic board with the same faulty product and return it for the problem to occur again.

Save yourself the trouble, get a Sony Vaio.

ok, some obvious points:

1) i'm sorry you've had problem with your iBook, but your personal repair history does not represent the typical.

2) people who post their problems on the Apple's discussion board are usually the ones with problems. if people were happy with their purchase, they usually don't bother posting about it on Apple's discussion boards. so the fact there are many people on the board complaining of the problem doesn't mean the problem is wide-spread to the epidemic proportion, as you seem to imply.

3) "get a vaio"? where did this come from? as if vaio is immune from its own set of problems? (let's not even go into problems with Windows...)

back to topic: get one if you need one or really want one. i wouldn't make the decision on a potential (re: rumor) $200 price drop for a combodrive. you'd probably get enough joy out of using it now to more than offset the $200 price drop, not to mention agonizingly waiting for a rumor to come true, if it comes true at all, that is...

 

[solvs]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
And I am not trying to turn this into a pc vs mac argument...I should never have brought up the vaio. I just really think you should carefullly consider a $1000+ investment.

But when your display goes out, and your midterm paper is on your hardrive - that you didn't back up because it has only been in their for an hour - and you have to send your iBook in for service - what are your going to tell your professor? Apple ate my homework?

And I don't want to hijack this thread either, but the same thing can happen on a Sony, or any PC. Again, I'm sorry about your experiance, but don't scare the author of this thread into thinking all iBooks, or all Apple products, do this. Just as many, if not more, PCs can have the same problems.

I went to the Knowledge Base like you said, looked up the problem, and did see a couple of complaints. Mostly by someone named Applehater. I still would not call this widespread. There were even a few people who had the problem happen and Apple fixed it. Would be nice if all computers just worked, but that just doesn't happen.

If you are having this problem, especially if you have AppleCare (which you can still buy as long as your 1 year warranty hasn't expired), take it to an authorized shop or Apple Store and complain a lot. You'll get a working iBook.

Whereas you can say you've had good experiances with Sony PCs and a bad experiance with Apple, I can say the opposite. But I still don't write off all Sony products. I've seen iBooks dropped from several feet up, while on, that continue to work with no problems.

 

[Daveman Deluxe]

I'm beginning to wonder if most iBook logic board problems don't have much to do with the logic board itself. Most people that have to replace a logic board have to replace the logic board several times. I think it's possible there is a faulty connection between the power supply and the logic board (which wouldn't get replaced if only the logic board gets replaced).

At any rate, there's a reason that you only hear about peoples' troubles with Macs on Apple's support boards, and it's been mentioned here before. People post on Apple's support boards when they have a problem, not when everything is going right. DUH.

In general, I've been happy with AppleCare. I've had problems with my battery twice (I use an iBook). The first time, Apple shipped out a new battery and had it to me within three days. The second time they sent it in and Apple replaced the entire power unit. The one problem that I had was the fact that nobody asked me for my password, which delayed the iBook's repair for about a week. I blame the reseller I went to for that because it didn't call me for five days after Apple first called for my password. Then the reseller never called to tell me it had come in, so I was out another week.

Next time I think I'll call Apple myself. Apple's held up their end of the bargain with my warranty very well. Can't say the same for the reseller. Oh, and I haven't had any problems since that last repair.

Edit: If you're sending in a logic board problem for the third time, Apple will give you a brand new iBook, but sometimes you have to ask for it, then escalate your complaint up a level or two (I think it should be automatic, but I'm not running the company).

 

[ewgrego]

Thanks

Hey, thanks for the advice, folks! This gives me a great deal to think about.
Cheers

 

[Powerbook G5]

The iBook seems to be a solid product. I was personally surprised to hear of a big problem since I've known so many people at college carrying around their iBooks who swear by them as being the best thing they have ever owned. I can't blame them, either, they look damn sexy and they look like they are built to handle college life quite well. If you do have problems, as stated above, Applecare usually takes care of that. When I got my PowerBook G3 (Lombard), I got it when it *first* came out and there was a slight issue of a first batch having bad inverters that would make a high pitched whine that increased as your turned the screen brightness up. What did I do? I called Apple and a couple of days later I had a brand new Powerbook in my hands all free from problems and over 4 years later I am still using it as my primary computer without a *single* problem. To me, the solid iBook and safety net of Applecare seem to be a win-win combination

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: From the Newbie: iBook now or later?

Originally posted by ewgrego
Hey guys.
I'm looking at buying my first Mac, probably a 12" ibook/900Mhz/Combo Drive.

You guys probably get this at least once a week, but

iBook: buy now or wait till mid-September (Apple Expo Paris)?

It's not that I want to buy something faster than 900...In my mind the, the Combo drive is the crucial bit. it's just that I've seen threads saying that the entry-iBook (presumably at $999) will soon include the Combo drive and possibly some other stuff that the current entry model does not.

Thoughts, speculations?

the combo ibook can very possibly go to $999 usd sometime soon

but $1299, 900 mhz, and combo drive is not a bad deal

 

[maraczc]

I'm just posting to say that I had my iBook for almost three months now and have not had any technical problems.


While on the other hand I have had something I assume is very strange for Macs which is a full system error that requires a new install of Mac OS X (ie. loosing all your work/formatting).

 

[dcoltonbrown]

I went to the Knowledge Base like you said, looked up the problem, and did see a couple of complaints. Mostly by someone named Applehater. I still would not call this widespread. There were even a few people who had the problem happen and Apple fixed it. Would be nice if all computers just worked, but that just doesn't happen.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX128@192.Ii3BaarRc3C.529339@.3bba678c

That is just one thread and I am only posting it so people won't think that there are only a "couple" of complaints (as you put it). Either you didn't dig deep enough (although you wouldn't have to dig that hard) or you are so partial that you refuse to see an issue (I don't mean to sound offensive). By the way...I would hope that all of the "problems" are fixed by apple.


As for the comments about the discussion board not being very representative of the iBook as a whole...

1. Not everyone who experiences a problem posts it on a discussion board.
2. While MOST iBook owners do not or have not yetexperienced this issue, a significant number of individuals have. Enough, in my opinion, to warrant (at the very least) an inquiry into the problem by apple.

My question is how often or how prevelant does a problem have to be before you people recognize it as a problem...or is Apple so perfect that there can never be a serious issue with any of their products?

 

[Powerbook G5]

I just love how quite a few of us have mentioned how reliable our or other's iBooks have been but since it doesn't fit with your pissed/unhappy experience, you insist on attacking us for enjoying our Apple purchases and try to insist that the iBook is a bad product. If it really is that bad, I don't see how the iBook has lasted this long and has had such a success. Granted, you may have been burnt, but that happens. The PowerBook I have once had a slightly irritating defect, too, but instead of whining in a threat and trying to convince everyone that the PowerBook sucks and no one should consider buying it, I just called Apple, let them assure me they understand my problem and they were more than happy to send me a replacement immediately and even threw in a spare battery in the process. Not everything will be perfect all the time, there will be defects. You just have to work with that and realize that not everyone is going to have the same experience. It sounds like Apple has been doing a pretty good job of replacing iBooks for owners with problems, so apparently they do realize there is something that is wrong with them that had to be addressed.

 

[tazo]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown


My question is how often are how prevelant does a problem have to be before you people recognize it as a problem...or is Apple so perfect that there can never be a serious issue with any of their products?

There will always be Apple zealots around here would call a mac in a paper bag revolutionary and taking the design world by storm, and even though their are serious flaws in the ibook, once you start comparing it to the track record of other personal computing companies, the ibook starts to look a bit nicer

 

[macphoria]

Get it now. iBook was recently updated and probably will not see another update for a while.

 

[Nermal]

I just want to say that I've had my iBook for nearly 6 months and haven't had a single problem with it (except for software problems which were mostly my own fault). I ordered some new memory for it last week, I can't wait for it to arrive. 640 megs here I come!

 

[Gus]

While I will admit that I have heard of this logic board problem, and even know someone who it affected, I still say the iBook has a good track record. When you look at the number of iBooks sold in a quarter, compared to the number of problems reported, I think that the overwhelming numbers show a reliable product. No , and I mean NO computer company is perfect, but I think Apple tries to rectify problems that they see. Yes, your iBook apparently has a logic board proble, but they DID replace the board, didn't they? Was it quick? Did you have to hem and haw about it? I have no experience with any PC manufacturer, so I can't even comment on them, but I have owned Macs of some sort since 1989, and I have only had 2 hardware problems, both of which Apple had fixed and back to me inside a week.

If yo come in here completely ripping on Apple and their products, you should expect some negative resposes to your post. This is MACRumors, after all. Just let them slide off like water.

Regards,
Gus

 

[dcoltonbrown]

So what exactly is the number of iBooks sold in a quarter compared to the number of problems reported?

And yeah, I got my computer back in 5 days...should that turn me into a hail apple steve jobs loving lemming? There is a problem with the iBook. It may not affect every iBook ever made or every iBook hasn't experienced the problems YET. Maybe only a small percentage of iBooks are and will be affected...who knows. But, as it has been agreed; there is a logic board problem with the iBook and Apple will not acknowledge it. Quite frankly...having to send in my computer everytime a faulty logic board fails is ridiculous...Apple should show a little integrety, admit to the problem and find a solution to resolve it.

I'm sorry, but why would you recommend a product - that you know has problems to anyone, Gus?

 

[jxyama]

i don't have any numbers, but obviously, apple is making money off of ibook. (otherwise, it wouldn't be sold.) this means some things:

1) the failure rate of ibook is not high enough so that the lost sales/reputation due to people getting faulty ones to affect the overall sales - or at least, such negative effect is in line with their expectations or industry standards.

2) the cost of "admitting" defect (via a recall or a massive repair campaign) is higher than providing "standard" repair services on a needed basis.

if you think above are reasonable, what would you do if you were in apple's shoes?

 

[dcoltonbrown]

Six people in this room acknowledge the issue, and you guys are obviously much bigger Apple fans than myself. So why don't you guys take a deep breath and think about it rationally. I will do the same. Here are a few statements that I hope we all can agree is true.

1. The iBook has Logic Board issues. Many of you readily admit this as seen below.

2. No one in this discussion knows how widespread OR limited the faulty logic board problem is...but most of us are aware of the problem.
a. Logically, if the statement is made that we are aware of the problem, then it can be assumed that the problem is not a small, unnoticed issue.

3. The cost of admitting a faulty logic board is higher than replacing the logic board with a REFURBISHED logic board.
a. Therefore, we can assume that Apple is putting profit above and beyond the customer and the product. (Personally, I would too if I had followers who thought I could do no wrong).

4. Apple has a great turn around time when it comes to repairing these logic boards.

5. The little apple that lights up on the iBook is pretty freakin' cool.

6. Steve Jobs is paid too much.


Abstract said: "The logic board problem is true..."

solvs said: "Some of them have been faulty, and some people have problem with support."

Davemen Deluxe said "I'm beginning to wonder if most iBook logic board problems don't have much to do with the logic board itself. Most people that have to replace a logic board have to replace the logic board several times. I think it's possible there is a faulty connection between the power supply and the logic board (which wouldn't get replaced if only the logic board gets replaced)."

Powerbook G5 said: "It sounds like Apple has been doing a pretty good job of replacing iBooks for owners with problems, so apparently they do realize there is something that is wrong with them that had to be addressed."

Tazo said: "...their are serious flaws in the ibook"

Gus said "...I will admit that I have heard of this logic board problem."

If you guys want to convince other people that this is a good product without any problems...that is your imperative. As for me, it is against my moral compass to peddle or recommend a product which I know is faulty to the point it has disrupted the lives of many, many Apple owners.