From the Newbie: iBook now or later?

[jxyama]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
a. Therefore, we can assume that Apple is putting profit above and beyond the customer and the product. (Personally, I would too if I had followers who thought I could do no wrong).

i'm no zealot, so i don't see a problem with this. it's simply a business being a business. they are putting their profit above the customer and the product as far as they believe they can effectively go to maximize the profit.

if you expected (as you may) or believed (as some mac zealots do) that apple is some kind of a charitable organization, willing to go heads over heels for the customers, then this might be a disappointing revelation.

when people speak admirably of apple, it's perhaps because they may have somewhat customer friendlier profit chasing policy. but they still have to chase profits - they can only go so far in trying to value customers over profits. call me cynical but i believe such is the world of corporations.

ibook apparently has some problems. pb 12" apparently also has some problems. i personally know of no computers that have no problems. i will not claim that ibook is perfect, i never did. i will not claim that apple is perfect, i never did. no one knows how widespread this problem is.

therefore, for the original poster - take these posts as you wish. be aware that ibook can have problems. be ready to deal with it, though i sure hope you won't have to, like many ibook purchasers don't. ultimately, you have to pull the trigger.

should you decide to purchase an ibook and have no problems - good for you, but that doesn't make posters here with ibook problem experience "whiners." conversely, if you purchase and ibook has problems with mobo, that doesn't make "defensive" posters like myself "liars" either.

good luck with your deliberation.

 

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by jxyama
i'm no zealot, so i don't see a problem with this. it's simply a business being a business. they are putting their profit above the customer and the product as far as they believe they can effectively go to maximize the profit.

if you expected (as you may) or believed (as some mac zealots do) that apple is some kind of a charitable organization, willing to go heads over heels for the customers, then this might be a disappointing revelation.

when people speak admirably of apple, it's perhaps because they may have somewhat customer friendlier profit chasing policy. but they still have to chase profits - they can only go so far in trying to value customers over profits. call me cynical but i believe such is the world of corporations.

ibook apparently has some problems. pb 12" apparently also has some problems. i personally know of no computers that have no problems. i will not claim that ibook is perfect, i never did. i will not claim that apple is perfect, i never did. no one knows how widespread this problem is.

therefore, for the original poster - take these posts as you wish. be aware that ibook can have problems. be ready to deal with it, though i sure hope you won't have to, like many ibook purchasers don't. ultimately, you have to pull the trigger.

should you decide to purchase an ibook and have no problems - good for you, but that doesn't make posters here with ibook problem experience "whiners." conversely, if you purchase and ibook has problems with mobo, that doesn't make "defensive" posters like myself "liars" either.

good luck with your deliberation.

apple is a very unique case and probably one of the chief examples of what not to do in business

stupid management and business practices, well documented in many books (the last of which i read being , macintosh, the naked truth), lay out some interesting moves...but the loyalty of customers since the apple II have made the company resilient...yes, it's us who keep apple going because of our devotion...any other company would be toast by now

if just about any other CEO or leader had control of apple early enough besides steve jobs/steve wozniak, apple would be the microsoft of the industry, not that company in redmond...though the movie "pirates of silicon valley" shows how gates won the battle, there are historical inaccuracies in the plot...but steve wozniak otherwise concurs to the basic truth of the movie and characterizations

wozniak and jobs are visionaries...who later became businessmen...bill gates was a master businessman from the start, maybe not as interested in making a quality product as the main focus, but in capturing a wide open market

steve wozniak mentions that steve jobs has a problem listening to others sometimes

...not always the best trait in a fast moving industry like computers

 

[Daveman Deluxe]

Right on the money, jef. I recently saw it put best on a website discussing Apple's market share: "Apple puts into its products what Apple wants." Apple could be making serious gains in market share (although it will never seriously rival Microsoft) if they would do a few simple things such as focus groups, market studies, and the like. How long have we asked for a cheap headless box but haven't gotten it? How long did it take to get USB/FW ports on the front of our towers? The list goes on.

Steve Jobs is an excellent visionary but he needs to listen to us consumers more and give us what we want. I hope never to meet SJ because, from the sound of things, he's got ego up to here. You know why I think the switch TV ads failed? They're patronizing. "If I can't use a PC well, neither can you." In the consumer space, Apple should focus its ads on why the OS and the hardware are awesome without comparing to PCs--the product should stand on its own.

Apple makes a superior product, but there are holes in the product line that need to be filled for Apple to be successful. Getting off of the 7455 will be a good first step, but Apple still needs a cheap headless box and a better low-end prosumer option than the current G4 tower option.

 

[Gus]

1)Microsoft has Windows software that has serious security flaws.
2)Instead of replacing your software with a new, secure version, they just patch it many times.
3) The patches are free
4) The MS butterfly is way cool
5) Because Microsoft won't make software that isn't secure, they are lying and intolerant to their customers, so I will never recommend a Microsoft product.
6) Bill Gates has admitted that 5% of Windows users must restart more than twice a day.

I do not necessarliy believe any of the opinion above, and I do not HATE Micrososft. I actual use Word everyday of my life, and have grown to like it. I am merely making a point here. Sometimes when you are making a product, there happen to be a few bad apples, so to speak, but if the company makes a concerted effort to remedey said problem, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Apple has had problems with machines and the past, and have gine to great lengths to fix or replace parts and/or machines. The Powerbook 5300 fiasco is evidence of this. Also, the G4 fan/power supply issue. How many companied will send you NEW parts to replace a part that wasn't even defective, just annoying?

I do not like blanket "zealot" labelling comments, as I am not one. When Apple has problems, I bitch about them too. Yes, some iBook have had logic board problems. Yes, this is something that, if in sufficient numbers, Apple needs to recall and replace. No, the iBook is not a bad investment, and the pros will outweigh the cons.

Regards,
Gus

 

[solvs]

Wow, I can't believe we're still talking about this. Look, I'm not a zealot. When Apple does something not so good, I complain. I hated .Mac, and I was even accused of being a troll when I compained about the G4s (but c'mon, who didn't). But I'm not going to tell the original poster not to get the product he wants because you had a problem with yours.

I feel bad for you, I do. I've had bad experiances with products and companies that p*ssed me off, too. But you have to understand that not everyone has had the same experiance. Actually, as mentioned, I had a similar experiance with Sony. Not to mention the problems (plural) I've had with Windows. That doesn't mean all Sonys are terrible products.

(Windows, on the other hand...)

Some people have had good experiances with the iBooks. I don't have exact numbers, but seeing as how they sell pretty well, I doubt it's as widespread as you make it out to be. If you bought an iBook, or any laptop (or computer, or electronic device), it might not work. Sucks, but that's the way it is. If you can get a working one eventually, that's all that matters.

If none of them worked, they would do a recall, or they would go out business. You got a bad one, but that doesn't make it a bad product. Some people have had the same problem, some haven't. Many haven't. For every one that had a problem, I'm sure there's more than one that didn't. Even if they did have a problem, they got fixed, right?

I don't know how else to say this. Some of them might have had a problem, but it seems to be fixed. This is not a bad product, there were just a few bad ones. I know people who have them and are very happy. I would like to get one myself, but I'm too busy complaining about their shortcomings and considering a 12"PB if it's durable enough.

Just because your experiance is different than ours, that doesn't mean we're wrong.

Just because you had a good Sony, it doesn't mean they're all good.

Just because some people got some bad iBooks, doesn't mean they're all bad.

And don't call me a zealot...

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Get your iBook now

Hi,

I really recommend that you get your iBook now instead of waiting for a update that will come sometimes. I don't think that iBooks will see an update before Nov. Dez. if at all.

I have an iBook 900MHz Combo for 3 month now and I am quite happy with it. NO problems at all.

And about the problems with the iBooks:
I can tell you: every company selling similar products has problems.

It just takes some time to find the root cause, throw away defective parts or change the design. During that time you are still selling products that might have a problem.

There are just a lot of pieces in a complex product and every piece can cause a problem,( or the design) and there are many reasons for it. I don't want to go into details.

But I can tell you: EVERY COMPANY SELLING PRODUCTS HAS THIS PROBLEM WITH EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT !

And Apple makes no difference.

They can make a differnce how they handle the problem and there customers.

Cheers
CmdrLaForge

 

[jefhatfield]

one of the most reliable computer makers is sony

i used to belong to a C1 picturebook (sony laptop) site...the laptop is a good seller and highly regarded, but many of the posters talked about the problems they had and mostly to troubleshoot...and it was amazing how many things could go wrong with this machine

anything i hear about the ibook and its logic board, optical drive, feet, or easily scratchable surface pales in comparison to the issues i hear about the sony C1 picturebook or any PC for that matter

i used to hear problems about a messed up CRT on the emac but lately, no complaints on that issue so apple prolly got that fixed

if there is a serious issue with ibooks and logic boards, i am sure apple either is on it right now or they solved the issue

the last thing apple wants is to be fixing issues surrounding a faulty connector to the logic board and having a bad reputation hurt one of their best known products

 

[dcoltonbrown]

First of all, I never called anyone a zealot! That was a term used by someone who agrees with you. So, let's get that facts straight before anything else becomes skewed.


Second. Solvs, you said "I would like to get [an iBook] myself,..." I don't understand how you can even comment on how great the iBook is if you don't even own one. Yeah, maybe you have some friends that own iBooks...but why would they tell you that they made a bad decision when they purchased it? Makes me wonder...do you work for Apple? Do you get paid to only discuss the postitive aspects of a product you don't even own? Does Apple pay you to ignore the logic board problem or to attack people with an opinion contrary to that of you, Apple, or Steve Jobs?

Third, the logic board problem is NOT fixed. When a logic board fails, all Apple does is replace the logic board with a refurbished logic board and they hope the problem doesn't occur again. That's why there are people who have had to send their iBook in 5 - 7 times. I am on my third logic board...are you saying that this is acceptable?

I could go on forever...about how Apple LOST my computer...how they insist on sending me boxes (I have 6 sitting here in my office) with the wrong address despite my numerous attempts to get them to correct it...how the service depot saw it fit to explore files on my laptop...or simply how the logic board in the iBook is faulty. I know, it doesn't matter because Apple is the best of the best, right? I wonder why Apple can't garner a bigger market share considering they can do no wrong.

Remember the power adapter issue? It is taking a class action suit against Apple to get them to replace a fire/ safety hazard...so why do you think they would ever admit to a faulty logic board?

Using your logic:

Just because your experiance is different than mine, that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Just because some people got some good iBooks, doesn't mean they're all good

And don't call me a zealot...I never did

I have seen you guys push the iBook in other discussions and I have purposely avoided posting my comments. But, I do find it suspect, that you guys will admit that there is - at the very least - a trackable trend of faulty logic boards and still push the iBook as if it were the save all cure for the world. It is almost like your trying to sell your car...you mention everything you love about it but you fail to mention the oil leak or the hole in the radiator hose. I can understand selling YOUR car, but why would you push the iBook like that?

 

[iPC]

Originally posted by jxyama
i don't have any numbers, but obviously, apple is making money off of ibook. (otherwise, it wouldn't be sold.) this means some things:

1) the failure rate of ibook is not high enough so that the lost sales/reputation due to people getting faulty ones to affect the overall sales - or at least, such negative effect is in line with their expectations or industry standards.

2) the cost of "admitting" defect (via a recall or a massive repair campaign) is higher than providing "standard" repair services on a needed basis.

if you think above are reasonable, what would you do if you were in apple's shoes?

I would look at number of units sold, the overall market, what my sales goals are, the amount of cash in the bank, and then institute a recall. Apple can afford it financially. The iBook is their core item in the laptop segment. Apple can not afford a bad reputation right now. Get it fixed. Turn it into a event touting Apple's superior commitment to quality and what the customer wants.

--

Back on topic, buy it now. There will not be another update of the iBook until a few months after the next PowerBook update. The PowerBook update might be in September...

 

[QCassidy352]

I'm on my second ibook and I've had no logic board problems. The first a 12" ibook 600 and the second a 14" ibook 900. The 600 had some bad wiring that effected the display - apple repaired it and had it back to me in 2 business days.

one other thing: one early poster said to get an extra battery, adapter, and case. I have none of these things and don't see any need for them. But it all depends on how exactly you'll be using the ibook.

*people, please: stop the thread hijacking. this isn't about faulty logic boards, it's about when to buy an ibook. Hardware problems are a valid topic, but this is not the thread or the forum for them! If I were the original poster, I'd be very annoyed to have had my thread hijacked like this.

 

[solvs]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
Second. Solvs, you said "I would like to get [an iBook] myself,..." I don't understand how you can even comment on how great the iBook is if you don't even own one. Yeah, maybe you have some friends that own iBooks...but why would they tell you that they made a bad decision when they purchased it? Makes me wonder...do you work for Apple? Do you get paid to only discuss the postitive aspects of a product you don't even own? Does Apple pay you to ignore the logic board problem or to attack people with an opinion contrary to that of you, Apple, or Steve Jobs?

No, I don't work for Apple. I would like to, though. If only they did hire people to do this stuff. Why, do you work for Microsoft? I do have friends who have iBooks, and other Apple products. I, and several of my family and friends, also have other Apple products. My Mom is getting an iBook. You know, after the problem with her Sony, which you recommended. It's perfect for her, and the original poster.

They would tell me about problems they have had. I am the family computer geek, and get called whenever there's a problem. You know, like the Sony and my Stepmom's Dell. Which Sony and Dell couldn't seem to help them with. I resent the fact that you think that I have some kind-of ulterior motive to this. The iBook would be a good machine for the poster, and great for my Mom who hates her Sony and has to give back her schools G3 PowerBook.

For me, I don't know. I need more power, and would like more from it. Like the ability to add more Ram. And things like USB 2, FW 800, audio-in. Which is probably why I'll be getting a new PowerBook, or an iMac if I can get one cheap enough from the studio. Why, because I love Apple products. Because the Apple products I have owned have worked, and worked well. I also have owned many PC. Most of which suck.

Will I still own PCs? Yes, I have to for some of the stuff I do. Some actually haven't that bad. Will I buy another Apple product? Yes. Would I if none of them worked? Of course not. Some of them have problems. But so do Sonys, so do any computers. You may not have called me a zealot, but you did say something about lemmings and how we think Apple is perfect, which it is not. Neither is Sony.

My point being all iBooks are not as bad as yours.

I feel bad for you. You got a bad product and bad service. You should demand a new, working iBook. Or your money back. You should complain til you get satisfaction. You shouldn't have had to, but you do. Your lucky you got a working Sony. I have had good and bad luck with Sony products. I have had problems with Apple products. If I never used anything that had problems, I'd never use anything.

I bet ewgrego got the iBook, and there is a pretty good chance he is happy with it. Even if it isn't perfect.

But what is?

I don't know what else to say. You had a bad experiance, we haven't. You certainly have the right to your opinion, no one argues with that. But so do we. Calling us lemmings and alluding to the fact that our opinions don't matter because you think we feel Apple can do no wrong (you don't know us very well do you) is unacceptable. You may as well of called us zealots.

There is nothing more to say than NOT ALL IBOOKS ARE BAD. Most of them are actually pretty good. As are Sonys. Welcome to MacRumors. You know, where we talk about Macs. Good and bad. If you want to complain, go to one of the many PowerBook threads. OS X is great, but we all think Motorola sucks. Lemmings indeed.

Windows still sucks, though.

-

Written from a Windows 2000 HP PC. Can't wait to get back to the Mac.