"G5" in early spy pictures?

[keltorsori]

let's be even more fair

Originally posted by drastik

You're right, SJ didn't sell, but others selling isn't wierd. A lot of those trades were exercises of stock options, something that can only be done at a given time during the year. That's why so many apple execs were selling, thats the only time they can sell those stocks. On top of the time window for sale, most options have a life span and become unusable after that time period, this could also be a good reason for the large sales.

All below is offtopic (well most of it anyway)

drastik was right, these sales were mostly option excersises.
Links below to articles about the stock sales, "I can assure you that no executive would have exercised options had they believed we would not meet our original guidance for the quarter," Fred Anderson, Apple's chief financial officer, said in a written statement.

No open SEC investigation into the matter.

I find correlation of stock sales to G5 rumors very creative, but highly implausible.

It will be nice when Apple releases a product with a new processor. It's always nice when Apple releases new product. However, I find it unfortunate that people continue to bitch and then say "I'll buy when they come out with G5, FW2, USB2, on and nVidia nForce 2 mobo, with <insert vaporware here>". Come on guys, a computer is just a tool. That's it, a tool. And what matters most is whether the tool you can buy today can meet your needs. Is there anyone on this forum who couldn't get a day's work done on a new Dual 1.25Ghz powermac? I hope not. I own a software company that makes video compression codecs for QuickTime, and so far, everything we do works better (read better, not necessarily faster) on our QuickSilver 733's than any thing Intel/AMD has thrown our way. We're happy plodding along with today's technology instead of promising to get work done when they release the new G5 (or whatever). I find my tool of choice gets the work I need done, how about you?

And what probably needs to be a seperate topic in a different forum, who out there actually has a dying need for Firewire 2? As someone who uses DV everyday, the speed bump is useless until ATA drives that bridge over firewire actually get about 3x faster. 100MB (that's megaBytes!) per second is far beyond the realm of any ATA drive in existance today or on spec for tomorrow. 400Mbps firewire is great for DV and still has room to grow.

Also, to topicolo and GeeYouEye, the processors in the new G4's are not overclocked. How processor fabbing works:
Moto creates a big wafer with lots of chips on it. Each chip is then run through a barrage of tests to see where it will comfortably clock. Some chips for the same wafer will get marked 1500 Mhz (example), while some others may only get marked 867Mhz, or even tossed. If you remember from 1999 when Apple first announced G4 PowerMacs, they were originally 400, 450 and 500Mhz. Motorola had a problem getting any sort of yield on processors that would test 500Mhz (later linked to bug in G4).
While motorola's literature concerning the G4 is indeed confusing (roadmap linked below states 1Ghz+, Moto announced 1Ghz G4 in 2000, while a dev conference PDF I have from 2001 states G4 will top at 800Mhz before they move to G5), these chips are the real deal. To accuse of Apple of selling overclocked chips to customers is irresponsible. People are already going after upgrade makers using overclocked chips. Why would Apple risk that kind of backlash? And why would you want people to put off buying due to unsubstantiated claims of using "overclocked" processors?

Links from post:
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0206/28.stock.php
Maccentral article about executive stock sales

http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...628/apple_exec_stock_sales_2.html+Apple+Execs'+Stock+Sales+Studied&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
AP article on Apple exec's stock sales

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=03M943030450467M983989030230
Motorola's PowerPC roadmap from 2001

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-246841.html
News.com article on 1Ghz G4 chips from 2000

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-230481.html?tag=rn
Apple announces G4 Mac's at 400, 450, and 500Mhz

EDIT: I stand semi-corrected about Firewire 2. After further review of benchmarks from ATA-133 and Serial ATA (the next gen standard), they come closer to 100MB/sec (around 80) and therefore firewire 2 bridges could utilize that. Sorry.

 

[topicolo]

Originally posted by pgwalsh


Punk Arse Sir Donkey Butt

Well it seems Sir Donkey Butt can read better than Sir Pig Wash.

numbnuts

 

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by topicolo


Well it seems Sir Donkey Butt can read better than Sir Pig Wash.

numbnuts

Well I hope so. And my nuts are only numb when I get out of the water in Lake Tahoe.

 

[mrMahann]

Re: Re: Let's be fair

Originally posted by drastik


You're right, SJ didn't sell, but others selling isn't wierd. A lot of those trades were exercises of stock options, something that can only be done at a given time during the year. That's why so many apple execs were selling, thats the only time they can sell those stocks. On top of the time window for sale, most options have a life span and become unusable after that time period, this could also be a good reason for the large sales.

and, sj selling would have been really high-profile and should there be collusion could have wrecked it for all.

 

[bsharp]

Re: Re: Let's be fair

Originally posted by drastik


You're right, SJ didn't sell, but others selling isn't wierd. A lot of those trades were exercises of stock options, something that can only be done at a given time during the year. That's why so many apple execs were selling, thats the only time they can sell those stocks. On top of the time window for sale, most options have a life span and become unusable after that time period, this could also be a good reason for the large sales.

You make a good point. I'd like to believe that the execs who exercised their options were doing so due to certain schedules. My experience with options is that they are often granted around an employee's anniversary date and the employee has several years to exercise them. In this case, EIGHT executives exercised options in ONE month. That raises my suspicions. I think it also raised the suspicions of the SEC - I thought I read a piece about them taking a closer look at Apple. Of course, that might be just a political move by Harvey Pitt, too.

 

[snoopy]

G5, the Good News or the Bad?

Which do you believe, the good or bad news? First the bad news. The IBM G5 really is a year to a year and a half away. IBM will announce a tentative schedule on October 15, so samples may be any time from January to June. In the mean time, Apple will keep getting more from the G4, and possibly ship quad processors. Hence the large power supply and extra cooling of the new case. Once sample G5s are shipping, Mac users will keep a sharp eye on events, and be able to fairly well guess when a new G5 PowerMac will appear. PowerMac sales will hit rock bottom for three to six months before the expected ship date. The G5 will be a fantastic Macintosh, but morale will be down before it finally arrives.

The good news may be that a G5 is very close to shipping, right now. Apple already has the new case for it, so it will be easy to begin production of a top end G5 PowerMac on short notice. In the mean time, Apple is clearing out stock of G4 processors quickly by selling all duals. When the G5 begins to ship, the dual G4 will still keep selling at the lower end, for those who do not need the G5's performance, and price. The top end G5s will sell extremely well, however. Before long, lower clock rate G5s will replace the G4s at the low end. The top end G5 PowerMac may be announced on October 15, as IBM announces that G5s are shipping already. If not then, not long afterward. IBM may put off a schedule for the G5 on October 15, until both IBM and Apple are ready to announce.

So, will it be the good news or the bad? Or is there some in between news I haven't thought about? (IBM posted a summary of their new 64-bit processor, and it looks like Steve Jobs' wish list of features for the G5. It will be discussed on October 15th at the Microprocessor Forum.)

 

[TyleRomeo]

Ahh if only the G5 came out MWSF 2002 like everyone though. you guys keep your IBM power4 dreams alive becuase you aren't going to be seeing it anytime soon. Apple and Moto still have two more chips to release, the 7470 and 7500.

If you want IBM chips or a G5 then you better pray that the dual 1.25 GHz PM will use the 7470 chip and the spring 2003 PowerMacs use the 7500 chip. That way you have a shot of seeing the IBM chip by late 2003 at the earliest. But I wouldn't even bank on that, more like MWSF 2004.

There is still plenty of life left in the G4 chip.

 

[skunk]

Unfortunate

but probably true And this is NOT the case for the G5.

 

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
who knows. I have stoped trying to guess what Apple is going to do. I personally think that they will make a change to IBM. It has already happened in the iBooks, and I think everything will follow. Yep, go look at Motorollas web site, and you will see the G5 is a communications chip......

IBM had quite a share of the Macintosh processor market back when the 604/604e were being used. IBM introduced clock speeds at 225 way ahead of Motorola and PowerComputing bought them. Apple didn't buy any because it didn't mesh with their quantity plans. Of course then, IBM were still using PowerPC chips in their smaller RS/6000 workstations.

 

[Catfish_Man]

Wrong on all counts...

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Everyone needs to realize that Apple will release what Apple will release. The problem is that the processors are out of their hands really. The true G5 will not be seen in a desktop system. It is a communications chip that doesn't even have altivec. A lot of people think the next PowerMac will have the Power4 chip from IBM, not anything from Motorolla, but who knows. I am happy with my PowerBook 667, so I cannot imagine what a Dual 1.25 would be like.

...the G5 is whatever Apple says is the G5. Apple's G5 will be in a desktop (tower) machine. Apple's G5 WILL NOT and CANNOT be the Power4. The Power4 costs over 1000 dollars for the lowest end processor, how could they make a 1600 dollar Mac based on that? It seems likely that it will be IBM's new desktop chip that takes its design ideas from the Power4. Motorola's G5s (they have 2 of them so far, G5 only means 5th generation) are not suited to Apple's purposes, but are designed to be modular. It would be *relatively* simple for Motorola to have a version of them that was suited to Apple's purposes.

Also, the 7470 and 7500 are RUMORS. Motorola doesn't have to release them, they may not even exist. The 7500 is a speculation from macnn on the Motorola model number of a G5 for macs, the 7470 is a mosrs guess on a G4++.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

If IBM announces a new version of the Power4 (Power4 lite) and it has more than one CPU core on the chip - that would make sense there was only one processor. Imagine having 4 or 8 CPUs on one chip cruising along at over 2 GHz......what kind of cooling do you think you might need......hmmm......

just a thought, that's all

I'm really looking forward to see what happens in October.

D

 

[macsurfer]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Everyone needs to realize that Apple will release what Apple will release. The problem is that the processors are out of their hands really. The true G5 will not be seen in a desktop system. It is a communications chip that doesn't even have altivec. A lot of people think the next PowerMac will have the Power4 chip from IBM, not anything from Motorolla, but who knows. I am happy with my PowerBook 667, so I cannot imagine what a Dual 1.25 would be like.

The true G5? How do you define the "True G5"? "G5" is just a marketing term coined by Apple. It doesn't have to be manufactured by Motorola to be a "G5".

 

[skunk]

S'right.

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

Here are my thoughts:

CURRENT DUAL PMs--Obviously stop-gap units meant to appease the frustrated masses at least partially until the "next big thing" comes out. Very little innovation or fanfare... partially-implemented DDR RAM, moderately faster motherboard... no FW2... slight speed bump that realizes either a nominal gain in speed or none at all, depending on who you ask (cf. barefeats)... rehash of the same old case...

ENCLOSURE--This is obviously NOT the "next generation" box we have here. It is a souped up version of essentially the same tower we've seen for years. While it is top-of-the-line when it comes to access, practicality and overall design, it is old and everyone knows its old. Apple LIKES to be the design leader in its field and LIKES to take chances (new iMac, Cube, 20th Century ltd ed Mac, etc--some good, some bad). This is hardly an "innovative" new design. It is, however, perfect for finishing out a series of CPUs by ventilating their high-clocked processors.

G5--Just because Motorola uses the term doesn't mean they own it. G3 chips are IBM. G4 chips are Motorola. G5 chips will come from a source outside Apple, and that's all we know for sure. If IBM has a "Velocity Engine" counterpart that works exactly like Motorola's AltiVec, then IBM does seem a better choice for the next generation of top end processors, as they have deeper pockets, better R&D, and do not drag their heels on new chip design. Having said that, Apple will not be immediately abandoning Motorola if that happens. G4 chips will feed the middle line and portables for quite some time to come. As stated in other threads, the first lesson you learn in Practical Industrial Economics 101 is that you keep at least two suppliers on the line for everything you need, in order to use one to beat up on the other for better price and quality. In fact, if Apple could in any way convince AMD or Intel to print their CPUs for them as well, they could really play the field. I sincerely doubt that either AMD or Intel would commit the R&D to build a Mac-only CPU from scratch, however, and it would take too long to redo Jag and all other things Apple to fit their current chip designs. Motorola and IBM already make Mac CPUs, so we can surmise that Apple will play those two against one another for the foreseeable future. It looks like it is now IBM's turn to be top dog.

I say new CPU, new provider (IBM), and radical new case--announced the very SECOND the design is complete. HUGE FANFARE. A marketing blitz like the original "1984" add, only bigger and more profound. Stock will triple in a fortnight.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
I say new CPU, new provider (IBM), and radical new case--announced the very SECOND the design is complete. HUGE FANFARE. A marketing blitz like the original "1984" add, only bigger and more profound. Stock will triple in a fortnight.

And then I woke up from my dream.....

Seriously, Apple has no reason to call the next chip the G5, they might just stop that nomenclature at the G4 and if they use IBMs chip, call it the Power4. Its all in the marketing and Apple will spend more than enough coming up with something, whether we like it or not.

Its pretty much obvious that the current G4 needs some sort of boost or it will be replaced. I'm hoping for the latter. I don't care what they call it, as long as its more than 10x faster than what I have now I'll be buying it.

D

 

[wildcat4100]

Re: Re: Probably

Originally posted by TheCat
I'm going to be buying a Mac around early 2003 and would love to know what u people think will be out then! So long as it ain't a duel G4 running at 1.35GHZ !!

For sure that's not Dual G4 in 1.35GHz, there'll be Dual G4 in 1.255GHz!!!

 

[wildcat4100]

next generation processor

Originally posted by TheCat


ok, so we all know that in reality an Intel chip was never going to happen.. but are u serious about the G5? Like many others, i just assumed this to be the next PowerMac cpu <confused!>
Power4 after new year??? Or do u reckon another minor updated PowerMac?

Steve

who cares where the next generation chip will be from? all we care is when will the next gen PPC chip will be released and it should be hell of a speed there, we all know the 7455 chip is reaching it's top speed and even the 7470 can take advantage of the DDR Ram but it still can't satisfy we powerusers, so we need the next kick axx processor for Apple!!!!!!

 

[wildcat4100]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
who knows. I have stoped trying to guess what Apple is going to do. I personally think that they will make a change to IBM. It has already happened in the iBooks, and I think everything will follow. Yep, go look at Motorollas web site, and you will see the G5 is a communications chip......

ibook is currently using CPU from IBM?

 

[DeusOmnis]

I think apple is stuck with the G3 --> G4 --> G5 Marketing scheme, it's almost their trademark now. As far as the industrial thing, i completely agree. The only way apple can keep thier prices down is by having two suppliers.

 

[Jimong5]

I'm not sure about this, But wasn't the XServe released in April, and Oct. would hit the Update Schedule? IBM could have it worked out with Apple that their G5 could make its Debut in the new Apple XServe, which is supposed to be a higher ranking Machine than the PowerMac Towers.

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
Someone mentioned a while back that Apple wouldn't do a processor speed jump of more than 25%. It's said that most manufactures wouldn't/couldn't do that. Well AMD has developed a 2.5GHZ Thoroughbred processor, which is quite a jump from the 1.8 they have now. It's not on AMD's website, but it can be found at HardOCP.com with the ATI 9700 review. This makes me believe Apple could do the same with IBM or Motorola.

AMD went from 1.8 GHz to 2.1 GHz, a 17% increase. The model number is 2600+, and it has been overclocked to 2.8 GHz (but note that that is with a super-cooling device keeping the CPU at -41C).

More info available at http://www.tomshardware.com.

 

[topicolo]

Originally posted by wildcat4100


ibook is currently using CPU from IBM?

Of course, Motorola is too stupid to make something as advanced as the 'sahara' G3


Woohooo!!! My 500th post! time to get an 'tar!

 

[mnkeybsness]

Originally posted by dukestreet
Imagine having 4 or 8 CPUs on one chip cruising along at over 2 GHz......what kind of cooling do you think you might need......hmmm......
D

oooo ooo i know....

liquid cooling.......


oooooooooooooooo...(drools)

the onlyl noise would be from the hard drive!!!

EEK!

 

[shadowfax0]

...or from the bloody sump pump pumping all that water through that really tiny hole in the hose...

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
I think apple is stuck with the G3 --> G4 --> G5 Marketing scheme, it's almost their trademark now.

I don't think Apple <I>must</I> stick with any naming convention. Their history shows that they've already changed a few times already - - what's one more?

In the beginning...

6502
65C02

Then changed...

68000
68020
68030
68040

Then changed...

601/601+
603/603e/603ev
604/604e

Then changed...

G3 (750/750ex)
G4 (7400/7450)


The only continuity is that a "G" does bear some resemblence to a "6".


-hh