Handbrake file sizes for Blu-ray rips

[ixxx69]

I was hoping for a size between 3-5 GB so I ran it again at 17 and the movie was within my range. I changed nothing else. Naturally the length will vary depending in the complexity of the graphics so some fiddling with the RF number might be in order if you have your heart set on a particular size, but that's how it's done.

I think the HB folks would say you're doing it wrong. ;-)

They wouldn't recommend using file size to determine quality. The RF numbers are there to set a consistent quality regardless of file size or average bit rate. After that, bit rate is probably the next best determination of quality (keeping in mind how misleading that can be depending on how the video was shot/transferred to BR). Just looking at file size is the least determining factor.

You probably couldn't tell the difference between RF20 and RF17 in normal viewing. If you encode most movies at 1080p @ RF17, you're likely to end up with larger than 3-5 GB files.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

That's right. If the primary goal is smaller file sizes, he's sliding the RF slider in the wrong direction. Higher numbers = smaller file sizes. How is it getting those smaller sizes? By throwing out picture detail... what might be known as converting High Definition to Low Definition.

As has been offered in this thread multiple times, there is no magical setting that is going to yield very high quality and super small file sizes. It's one of the other- pick one. Else, it's finding some middle ground which is entirely "eye of the beholder" subjective.

I'm a quality-minded HB user so I don't care about resulting file sizes (hard drives are dirt cheap). But if I cared more about smaller file sizes, I'd step away from Blu Ray and convert DVDs. Those will yield a DVD-quality picture at or below file sizes the guy seems to be targeting. Personally, I can't make much sense out of wanting to source from Blu Ray but then throw out so much picture (quality) detail so that one ends up with relatively small files. If one is going to throw out so much detail anyway, convert DVDs. HD at starved bitrates is mostly missing the point of HIGH DEFINITION.

 

[schlotz]

Yup, the answer here is strictly a subjective one, i.e. only you can determine if you are satisfied with the results from a group of settings. Keeping in mind one standard group of settings will not yield the same results on every movie you try it with. With that said, here is a base line I would suggest and then tweak as required. Start with the ATV3 preset, web optimized ON, RF = 20, audio first track = ac3 - 5.1 channels, second track = aac - Dolby Surround II. If the resulting size doesn't suit you, redo with RF = 21.

 

[Logan in LA]

I just ripped the 4K Blu-Ray of "Dune" (the 2021 version) and was shocked to end up with a file that's 3.3 GB. I used MakeMKV to rip only the main feature, and got a 75.58GB MKV file. I didn't change any settings in MakeMKV. Then I ran it through Handbrake using the Apple2160P60 4K HEVC Surround setting to generate an MP4. In Handbrake I changed one thing: I made the frame rate "same as source."

In contrast, my rip of the 1984 "Dune" from its 4k Blu-Ray, using all the same settings, left me with a 13.1 GB MP4.

Is this variation normal or am I doing something wrong?

The end use is playing movies through my AppleTV 4K (second generation) via the Computers app. My library contains lots of stuff purchased from Apple, so I want to stick with that solution rather than using Plex or VLC or whatever.

 

[priitv8]

If the 1984 is a scan from film, then its random grain structure presents a challenge to the encoder and the resultant encode can well be 4 times the size of encode from a fully digital source material.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Logan, up to very high file size variability is NORMAL with the same settings for different movies. There is modest-to-little relationship between runtime and file size, resolution and file size, part 1 vs. part 2 and file size, original ripped file size and HB'd file size, etc.

There are 2 choices:

• Maximize quality, which will typically involve preserving picture detail and thus bigger files sizes to "remember" the detail, OR
• Minimize file size, which will typically involve jettisoning picture detail for smaller files by NOT remembering those details.

There is no magic setting that will yield the best of both of those. Middle ground by tweaking settings to try to up the quality and/or shrink the file size will yield a version that you then judge with your own eyes as good enough or not. If not, tweak the settings the other way and render again.

There are no secret settings that always yield highest quality at tiny file sizes either. It's simply judgement calls- personal judgement- on what looks great or good or poor in a big, medium-size or small file. I have 2 hour movies > 20GB and 2 hour movies < 1.5GB with both striving for preserving quality over minimizing file sizes.

Tip: HEVC (h.265) will generally render files smaller than H.264 for similar settings without dumping quality. The cost there is that it usually takes longer to render those HEVC versions. The magic in HEVC is more efficient ways to "remember" the details frame to frame.

So why do so many iTunes Store videos come in "small?" Those files are optimized for streaming, with assumptions likely trying to deliver a good experience for even those with slow broadband. So those have generally favored file size/bit rate over maximizing quality. In isolation, they can look pretty good. Compared with a BD version, eyes would likely see a difference.

Similarly, why are BD file sizes so huge? Because those are not concerned with file size, so quality can be a high as they can capture because a BD disc can hold a HUGE amount of data.

Thus the 4K BD version is likely the very best version a typical consumer can own and watch (and hear). The iTunes version is some corporate-selected balance of quality and streaming compression and HB lets you choose what level of quality you want probably in between those two extremes... though you can certainly compress smaller than iTunes versions if you are willing to throw out more detail than they did.

If we want to feel good about a file size that comes in at even 15GB-25GB, compare it to the original BD rip file size. There should be quite a bit of reduction... even if relative to other HB-processed videos, those are much larger file sizes.

A collection that meets someone "good enough "quality standard is probably going to have file sizes ranging from below 1GB to above 20GB for a good number of mainstream popular movies. Those opting for file size (compression) over quality may get that down to something like 500MB to 8-10GB for the same movies. Some people who want no compromise at all from the Blu Ray version, rip the movie as is, then play it in software able to play it that way. Their files sizes can be upwards of 20-100GB or so per movie because they are making no compromise at all on quality of picture or sound.

 

[nutmac]

I just ripped the 4K Blu-Ray of "Dune" (the 2021 version) and was shocked to end up with a file that's 3.3 GB. I used MakeMKV to rip only the main feature, and got a 75.58GB MKV file. I didn't change any settings in MakeMKV. Then I ran it through Handbrake using the Apple2160P60 4K HEVC Surround setting to generate an MP4. In Handbrake I changed one thing: I made the frame rate "same as source."

Some films are just much more easily compressed than the others. Older movies with lots of film grains often take much more space.

Regarding your Handbrake preset, while Apple 2160p60 4K HEVC Surround isn't a bad preset, you might want to change few things:

• Unless you are using a poorly transferred titles (e.g., old TV series with lots of interlacing artifacts), on Filters, disable both Interlace Detection and Deinterlace options.
• On Video, change the Framerate (FPS) to Same as source. Video Encoder should be H.265 (x265) for SDR, H.265 10-bit (x265) for HDR.
• On Audio, you don't need to have both AAC and AC3 audio tracks. I would select whatever multi-channel track available, then set Codec to whatever Passthrough available.
• On Subtitles, if the subtitle is PGS, remove it. Otherwise, the subtitle will be burned to the video and cannot be disabled.

 

[Logan in LA]

Many thanks for the replies above. I will assume that everything is OK. My "Dune" 2021 rip looks pretty darn good, and it took over 13 hours on a base-model M1 Mac Mini, so I'll assume that H265 was busy doing its work that whole time.

 

[priitv8]

Just two additional tidbits:

Similarly, why are BD file sizes so huge? Because those are not concerned with file size, so quality can be a high as they can capture because a BD disc can hold a HUGE amount of data.

They do contain huge amounts, esp. compared to streaming content.
There is still one limiting factor there - the maximum read speed from the optical media. For the BD it was 60Mbps and on UHD BD it is 100Mbps max. So the content mastering can not exceed those bitrate limits set by physics.
Most bluray discs also tend to take full advantage of said available bitrate. So the UHD movies are mastered close to the 100Mbps (peak) limit.

• On Audio, you don't need to have both AAC and AC3 audio tracks. I would select whatever multi-channel track available, then set Codec to whatever Passthrough available.

appleTV did never mind about the missing AAC track. But not that long ago, the iPhones and iPads were playing those movies without AAC in mute, as they could not decode Dolby Digital audio track. So I always have encoded both AAC and AC3. For AAC you can use minimal bitrate. Usually I do not go over 192kbps.
I have not tried, whether it is still the case? Dolby support is definitely built-in into modern macOS versions.

 

[HDFan]

I used MakeMKV to rip only the main feature, and got a 75.58GB MKV file.

Interesting. My MKV is ~88 GB.

Why are you bothering to convert the MKV to mp4? Any compression of the original involves a loss of quality. It may not make a difference now, but won't age as well in the future when higher resolutions become standard. If you are using Plex or Infuse the only cost is disk space assuming you are on a local network.

or AAC you can use minimal bitrate. Usually I do not go over 192kbps.

That is really low. Massive and obvious loss in audio quality when recoding from a DTS-MA soundtrack which can run over 4500 kbps.

 

[arw]

For AAC you can use minimal bitrate. Usually I do not go over 192kbps.

That is really low. Massive and obvious loss in audio quality when recoding from a DTS-MA soundtrack which can run over 4500 kbps.

Personally I agree with simply keeping the 1:1 remux and letting Plex/Infuse etc. handle the per-device re-coding at home.

But file-size-optimized rips do have their place. One just has to keep in mind that 192 kbps is the total bitrate of all surround channels together. That's comparable to less than 120 kbps for stereo content.

(Bitrate calculation based on the rule of thumb for the AAC encoding algorithm:
2 channels require ~√2 times the bitrate of mono and
5.1 requires slightly over √5 times the bitrate of mono)

 

[priitv8]

Interesting. My MKV is ~88 GB.

Why are you bothering to convert the MKV to mp4? Any compression of the original involves a loss of quality. It may not make a difference now, but won't age as well in the future when higher resolutions become standard. If you are using Plex or Infuse the only cost is disk space assuming you are on a local network.



That is really low. Massive and obvious loss in audio quality when recoding from a DTS-MA soundtrack which can run over 4500 kbps.

1) MKV and MP4 are just containers. You could just wrap the original H.265 (even HDR) stream into MP4 and aTV will play it back, if it can handle the bitrate. With audio, the choices are more limited.

2) Yes, it is low, but AAC is very efficient coder. And for 2-channel playback on iPhone or iPad, it is more than sufficient. aTV will choose the multichannel track (which you can encode either in AC3 or now also in E-AC3), if you have muxed it in to the MP4. From DTS-HD MA I encode AC3 at 640kbps (that is the max of that codec), with E-AC3 I use 768kbps. Although this codec allows to encode bitrates up to 1500kbps, tvOS will not play back anything over 768kbps. Infuse might.
As I said earlier, now in the era of spatial audio, current iOS and ipadOS versions might as well handle the multichannel tracks without problems.

 

[Logan in LA]

Interesting. My MKV is ~88 GB.

Why are you bothering to convert the MKV to mp4? Any compression of the original involves a loss of quality. It may not make a difference now, but won't age as well in the future when higher resolutions become standard. If you are using Plex or Infuse the only cost is disk space assuming you are on a local network.



That is really low. Massive and obvious loss in audio quality when recoding from a DTS-MA soundtrack which can run over 4500 kbps.

I'm converting to mp4 because I play all my non-streaming media through the Computers app. I have a lot of content that I've purchased through the iTunes Store (or whatever it's called these days) and I find it simpler to use one app to play both files purchased from Apple and ripped DVDs/BluRays.

 

[priitv8]

I'm converting to mp4 because I play all my non-streaming media through the Computers app. I have a lot of content that I've purchased through the iTunes Store (or whatever it's called these days) and I find it simpler to use one app to play both files purchased from Apple and ripped DVDs/BluRays.

Exactly my approach as well.