Hell Warming Up?

[sparkleytone]

Sadly...

It looks like logic and reason are beyond the capacity of a BUNCH of the newcomers to this forum.

/me heads back to the IRC channel.

 

[humantech]

macs are more intelligent/ non believers as well?

ou just haven't been out much.

Actually, Mac users are by average, smarter and better educated, as are nonbelievers, so it might match.

BTW, I'm very atheist.

That is the most ABSURD thing I have ever heard... " You make outrageous claims- like you invented the question mark!"
.Could someone please post the links to the "studies" that have been done to prove that mac users and "non-believers" are smarter than their christian and pc using counterparts? I need a good laugh--
Honestly--- Because someone is an atheist, they think they have it all figured out.... BTW- I am a dyed in the wool mac user, Apple specialist reseller , paid Mac consultant , digital musician ( using macs of course) and a christian. BTW- We christians DO get to have sex, occasionally curse ( although its not really to classy to do so), drink and enjoy the arts.... ( yes even nudes)--- I'm also quite sure Mensa, Nasa and even more importantly, people who do all manner of real day to day building, designing, engineering, science , etc.. are christian. Albert Einstein himself believed in God. get a clue about reality and stop living in a college 101 philiosophy course - maybe you should practice a little diversity and actually hang out with some christians for a while so you better understand that they to are people with different beliefs from yours.... isnt that what atheism is about- ? Not believing unless you have some proof and facts, or at least use a scientific method to determine that " until proven wrong, there is a strong liklihood that this is correct"?

My 2 cents---
Tech

 

[bluedalmatian]

i'd be much more concerned about my children being exposed to lazy americanisms like 'go see'

for God's sake.

 

[PretendPCuser]

But 16000 murders on TV is ok

if it was someone who all ready bought a ton of ibooks? I guess Apple has to be considerate of them, but there are far greater evils in the world these days.

<rant>TV is EVIL I tells ya! Down with the TV! How many murders do you see on the internet? (Notice i didn't say how many murders does a child hear in songs that s/he might listen to by the time he's 18.)

Does he sing along with them? GUess what? It's called parenting. Heaven forbid you might have to talk about something with your child on par with the afterlife. Might cause you (and more importantly, your child) to have to THINK! We can't have THAT!!

Oh, and don't let anyone think they can express feelings or anything either. That's taboo!

Some people need to get an afterlife....sheesh

OH, and BTW, i happen to be a parent. Not afraid to talk to my kid about things that come up.
</rant>

 

[jimh123456]

atheism

... isnt that what atheism is about- ? Not believing unless you have some proof and facts, or at least use a scientific method to determine that " until proven wrong, there is a strong liklihood that this is correct"?

Actually, what you are describing is agnosticism. Atheism is an absolute disbelief in God, which, to me, is just as irrational as is a belief in God - there's no "proof" either way.

As a die-hard agnostic, I'm proud to say I have no idea WHAT to believe and probably never will.

 

[tny]

Re: Who's to blame here?

Originally posted by B.B.

The ACLU? Perhaps, but probably not -- maybe this purely cultural reference to hell will be interpreted by a secular zealot as an attempt to impose religious values in our schools.

Edited out my own objections to this posting, which were off topic. So is this comment, which betrays a terrible ignorance of what the ACLU does.

 

[jettredmont]

Re: Now this is odd

Originally posted by Sol
Let me get this straight: the objection to Apple posting that hell froze came not from a religious body but from an educational one?! Richmond educators should put away their bibles and do what the are supposed to do: give their students a modern education.

The point being that "Hell" is on the list of "forbidden words" (along with many a more salacious four-letter word) in many school districts around the country. This includes the California district where I went to school, too (or at least did then).

It is perhaps a rather "strict" reading of such rules to require that any site mentioning any of those words must be banned from students' sight. On the other hand, given the vast array of schools and districts in this country, there's bound to be a couple that read their rules in such a way.

Of course, it would make perfect sense if the Apple site had gotten nixed by "Net Nanny" ninny-ware. Most of those programs allow you to enter a list of blocking words, and if any of those words exist on a web page the page filters out and the user gets a connection error instead.

 

[the_mole1314]

Re: Re: Now this is odd

Originally posted by jettredmont
The point being that "Hell" is on the list of "forbidden words" (along with many a more salacious four-letter word) in many school districts around the country. This includes the California district where I went to school, too (or at least did then).

It is perhaps a rather "strict" reading of such rules to require that any site mentioning any of those words must be banned from students' sight. On the other hand, given the vast array of schools and districts in this country, there's bound to be a couple that read their rules in such a way.

Of course, it would make perfect sense if the Apple site had gotten nixed by "Net Nanny" ninny-ware. Most of those programs allow you to enter a list of blocking words, and if any of those words exist on a web page the page filters out and the user gets a connection error instead.

I decided to jump into the Way Back Machine to look at the code for the page to see if that's right. Things are blocked by three ways:

-Bad words in the text (or source code)
-Blocked due to problems in school (game sites, email)
-Blocked through Terminal

Unfortunatly, I couldn't find the Hell page. But the problem with your theory is that the words need to be as text, not a image, which was what the phrase was in. The county actually went and BLOCKED the site because of the phrase, not the software.

 

[Matthé]

filtering?

filtering software that filters fourletter words even if they're written as images?
serious filter if you ask me

 

[jettredmont]

Re: filtering?

Originally posted by Matthé
filtering software that filters fourletter words even if they're written as images?
serious filter if you ask me

Without looking at the actual site, the image text could be blocked one of four ways (none of which entails doing OCR on the image):

1. the ALT text
2. The Title
3. An HTML comment
4. The image URL
   [/list=1]
   
   If Apple used any of the four (and the ALT text or Title attribute should have been used as a part of good web design), then simple text-filtering software would filter their page out.
   
   
   Looking at the current http://www.apple.com page, the main image says:
   
   

   Mac OS X Panther
   The Evolution of the Species.
   
   Now Available.
   
   With over 150 innovative new features, it's like getting a whole new Mac.

   
   Looking at the source code, you will see the ALT text for that image like so:
   
   

   alt="Mac OS X Panther. The Evolution of the Species."

   
   Thus, I find it higly likely that the previous "Hell froze over" campaign did, indeed, use the likes of:
   
   

   alt="Hell Froze Over"

   
   to describe itself.
   
   Anyone wish to go way-back and prove me wrong/right?
   
   Again, it's just a theory. But if I were running a school district about to buy a few thousand or so iBooks and suddenly the Apple home page (and hence the most logical route to sales and help etc) was inaccessible to all my computers, I think I'd ask Apple to change it.
   
   (Edit: thought of a fourth way for the image text to be filterable )

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by hvfsl
Please dont put such sweeping, made up comments in a thread like this, you are only inviting flaming. There has never been a study to show Mac users are more intelligent than PC users, or atheists being more intelligent than religious types. (even if there had, the survey would have to take into account the whole world to be acurate). If anything, you have proved the reverse with your sweeping statement.

If anything Mac users might be dumber than PC users, since Macs are easier to use and so require less brain power.

There have been several studies showing that Mac users are better educated and make more money. There have been several studies showing a correlation between high IQ and better education and lack of religion. It is demographic fact, and the two do correlate. It's not a stretch to suggest that due to convergence between the two demographics, you end up with more nonbelievers using Macs.

 

[matthew24]

Does Apple know where it is talking about?

Normally as a Apple-fan I know that this board is not the right place to talk about my conviction, and refrain to do so, but with this subject I feel compelled to respond.

Some points:

1) I am a born again Christian.
2) I am not offended by Apple.
3) I do love Jesus and the Apple community.
4) I don’t like MS too much.

As I said I am not offended by the slogan, but I am really anxious when non-believers talk that easy about things they do believe are fiction but in reality do exist. There are other spiritual realities like Heaven, God, satan, angels, and demons.
I know that millions of people who persist in their sin and unbelief will never make it into heaven. (This also applies to believers who persist in their sin!)

A link wih the explanation concerning basic Christianity can be found here:

Salvation

God Bless Apple and their fans,

Now you may start flaming! (I'll forgive you anyway
)

 

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
There have been several studies showing that Mac users are better educated and make more money. There have been several studies showing a correlation between high IQ and better education and lack of religion. It is demographic fact, and the two do correlate. It's not a stretch to suggest that due to convergence between the two demographics, you end up with more nonbelievers using Macs.

As numerous people have said on this thread before, WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS. I can say that there is a lot of evidence that aliens excist, but that does not mean they do excist. A lot of the evidence is just plain made up.

And as one person eariler pointed out, Elstein was Jewish, and he was one of the most inteligent people that have ever lived.

I have met a lot of stupid Mac, PC, religous, non-religous people. This kind of bigotry/stereotyping has lead to some of the worst moments in human history. e.g. Slavery, 911 etc. Given any given group of people, there will always be people of differing abilities, personalities.

 

[blueflame]

One HELL of a reply

[edited]
ok, sorry, just kidding all. was trying to see how many i could fit.

[mod. edit - Profanity.]

 

[hvfsl]

Re: Does Apple know where it is talking about?

Originally posted by matthew24
Normally as a Apple-fan I know that this board is not the right place to talk about my conviction, and refrain to do so, but with this subject I feel compelled to respond.

Some points:

1) I am a born again Christian.
2) I am not offended by Apple.
3) I do love Jesus and the Apple community.
4) I don’t like MS too much.

As I said I am not offended by the slogan, but I am really anxious when non-believers talk that easy about things they do believe are fiction but in reality do exist. There are other spiritual realities like Heaven, God, satan, angels, and demons.
I know that millions of people who persist in their sin and unbelief will never make it into heaven. (This also applies to believers who persist in their sin!)

A link wih the explanation concerning basic Christianity can be found here:

Salvation

God Bless Apple and their fans,

Now you may start flaming! (I'll forgive you anyway
)

I think it is probably about time this thread got deleted. Religous threads always end up with flaming because someone says something like they did at the begining of this thread. You then get a load of people who say stuff like, there was a sciencetist who proved that God does not excist without providing the sources or proof.

 

[hvfsl]

Re: One HELL of a reply

Originally posted by blueflame
[edited]
ok, sorry, just kidding all. was trying to see how many i could fit.

I normally do not get annoyed in threads, but it is people like you that make a big deal out of nothing. If you dont like Apple removing the word 'Hell', then buy a PC instead. Apple has the right to do what ever it wants, and this time it decided to do what its customers requested (and a major customer at that).

And besides, what I gather it was not a religous reason that the word was removed, but a software blocking issue. Some software would not allow kids to access the Apple site because it blocks out the word 'hell' which is after all a curse word.

 

[MetallicPenguin]

Okay sorry, I didn't mean for that one "PS" about the Mac and atheist thing to start a commotion.

Oh and this entire discussion is pointless, it's not like Apple's going to put it back up there. But we can all enjoy the announcement stream, it's still on, and I think Steve Jobs actually says "Hell Froze Over."

 

[hvfsl]

If people really want to get pissed off at how religon is missing up society, look at most of the tall office towers in the UK. Very few of them actually have a 13th floor because of superstition. Canary Wharf in Docklands is an example. They have 12a and 12b. There are then the buildings in Hong Kong that have been destroyed because they are not 'Fen Shay' (I dont know how to spell it).

 

[blueflame]

HVFSL I was KIDDING

lol, i was just playng with the idea. I really could care less if apple removed it for whatever reason that may be.
I saw it, i laughed, that is all that matterd, its gone now, no big ****ING deal!

ok Peace all
Andreas

[mod. edit - Don't circumvent the profanity filter.]

 

[Photorun]

You then get a load of people who say stuff like, there was a sciencetist who proved that God does not excist without providing the sources or proof.

Hmmm, yet xtians don't need any (and can never) any proof that there is a god? Kinda hypocritical, dontcha think? And no, the bible isn't proof, it was stories written by a bunch of lead poisoned zealots crammed together 1700 years ago to make one tome of work... it ain't proof. Just like science cannot prove there is no god (though it disproves much of the bible, can't have plants without light, Genesis) xtians can't use their "scientists" to prove their is one.

 

[lduncan]

Originally posted by hvfsl
If anything Mac users might be dumber than PC users, since Macs are easier to use and so require less brain power.

Yeah because chosing to use a PC which is harder to use and less productive than a Mac is a really intelligent choice!

Layton

 

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
That is a bit pathetic, but not all that surprising.....no matter what, you can't please everyone and some are just more annoying and narrow minded than others.

D

Haha really.

BTW, did anyone think of the children when steve was wearing...

wearing...

wearing that Provocative Black Shirt and Jeans.

For the LOVE OF GOD THAT IS INHUMAN!

Originally posted by the_mole1314
Lets get some thing straigt:

a.) Every kid in the school system can see this phrase, from kindergardeners on their iMacs to Seniors on their iBooks.

b.) If you had a kid and whenever they start IE or Safari they see "HELL FROZE OVER" and they were young, woutl you let them see it?

c.) It's only a matter of time before parents come to bitch and moan. Look at the parents who are suing to stop their school from using wireless networks because it might have effects on their kids! Idiots!

There is already filtering in 99% of school districts.
a) Yes sure, but you ignore the fact that there is no reason a kindergardener would be
1. On the Internet
2. On Apple.com's website
b) It wasn't a satin worship site, it was for a product that a company made.
So far I haven't seen a product called 'hell'
c) Erm... Many schools have a internet policy 'you can't do _____. You can do __________.
Sign Here ________.

And now I have a question...

Is this picture

Implying that to get the holy god you have to walk on Jesus...

Errmm... what the hell...

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by hvfsl
I have met a lot of stupid Mac, PC, religous, non-religous people. This kind of bigotry/stereotyping has lead to some of the worst moments in human history. e.g. Slavery, 911 etc. Given any given group of people, there will always be people of differing abilities, personalities.

Which is why we should judge individuals as individuals. But that doesn't stop us from studying and noting demographics.

If you want me to find a source for you PM me. This doesn't need to be on the thread.

 

[the_mole1314]

Every room in elementary school has iMacs. I've seen the kids use them everyday for internet purposes for research. ALL the browsers are locked to prevent a main page change from http://www.apple.com. All the computers are locked to prevent software installs too.

See what I'm saying? It's not as if it it's when a kid goes online and *THEN* goes to apples site for no reason, they have to go!

Hell is still hell. People still don't like it when it's used in a slang or very causal conversations. It's like saying ****, or ****.

 

[rufwork]

Political Correctness == Thought Police

I believe that about sums it up.