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lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
I'm thinking that mode-switching would be done with a touch-sensitive bezel (I couldn't decide which side I liked best, and it shouldn't show, after all, so you won't see it on the image.), or the touch-sensitive screen.

I just don't see Apple implementing a "virtual" scrolwheel like that. It's just not user friendly plus your screen would be constantly getting dirty. I think the slider concept is spot-on, but the front of it will look more like a normal iPod. Or actually, it might look like the Zune (much smaller scrollwheel so that it can accomodate the screen in portrait orientation).
 

lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
Apple has no incentive to not make this product suck, just like their last few phone integrations. First off, it will only be offered on Cingular - which sucks because everyone admits, even cingular fans, that Verizon has better coverage, quality and speed than the gsm network but Apple has to use gsm because its more international and thus they can dump the product on a european country when they realize they only sold 12,000 units instead of 12,000,000 units.

Plus the whole itunes store concept wont work on a cell phone because you need a connection for it, which there is none on any subway in the country currently and that is where most people are standing around doing nothing and willing to search on their phone for music (try doing that when youre driving or jogging?). Not to mention the price of the phone which will undoubtedly cost more than an iPod and the surcharge on each track you download (because even if cingular doesn't want a cut and thus the price stays at .99 cents a track, you still need to buy an internet plan per month of around 20 bucks, so if you buy 20 tracks one month via your phone, you essentially paid 2 dollars per track instead of 99 cents).

Im a huge apple fan and everything I use is Apple - but this phone is going nowehere, admit it.

I think you're wrong on every count here. Coverage isn't everything. I know so many people here in NYC that swear by T-Mobile even though Verizon has better coverage on average. I don't hear as many people raving about Cingular, but they are the largest provider nationally in a hyper-competitive market with low switching costs (and in fact *incentives* to switch), so they can't suck that much.

And why won't the iTunes store work on a mobile phone? That's just stupid - wait to see what the interface looks like, then judge. Believe me, you can do a lot with a 320 x 240 interface. For a point of reference, that's higher resolution than the screens on a Nintendo DS.

And in terms of the pricing, I would also reserve judgment on that. If the carriers are smart, they'll use the iTunes store as an incentive to get people to sign up for their 3G data plans. Getting people to fork over an extra $20 a month is more in line with the telecoms' business model - there's no better cash flow machine than a "subscription" model like this. Think about it, you're paying the telecoms in *advance* for minutes/bandwidth that you haven't used yet. I predict Apple will convince the telecoms that they will be driving customers to their service, so they don't need to nickel and dime customers on song downloads on top of that...
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
9,193
3,392
Pennsylvania
Apple has no incentive to not make this product suck, just like their last few phone integrations. First off, it will only be offered on Cingular - which sucks because everyone admits, even cingular fans, that Verizon has better coverage, quality and speed than the gsm network but Apple has to use gsm because its more international and thus they can dump the product on a european country when they realize they only sold 12,000 units instead of 12,000,000 units.

Plus the whole itunes store concept wont work on a cell phone because you need a connection for it, which there is none on any subway in the country currently and that is where most people are standing around doing nothing and willing to search on their phone for music (try doing that when youre driving or jogging?). Not to mention the price of the phone which will undoubtedly cost more than an iPod and the surcharge on each track you download (because even if cingular doesn't want a cut and thus the price stays at .99 cents a track, you still need to buy an internet plan per month of around 20 bucks, so if you buy 20 tracks one month via your phone, you essentially paid 2 dollars per track instead of 99 cents).

Im a huge apple fan and everything I use is Apple - but this phone is going nowehere, admit it.

I like cingular. Whenever there's a problem with someone's cellphone around here (philly, Pa) I've noticed it's verizon. Quit spreading your FUD.
 

lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
Which do you think is harder to unify TV-computer or mobilephone-mp3 player? Why do people insist-wishing on having these things be in one device?

I see all these widget-phones and PDAs out there that barely function as a phone.

This is what Apple should do (and I think they are doing it), don't listen to that engineer down the hall that wears oversize t-shirt and acidwash tapper jean. He shall not have any say on the design and style of a product.

I'm getting a vibe that a lof of us in here just don't care about style, beauty and form-function of a electronic device. We seem to care more about putting as much S^&&ts into a device making it ugly and useless.

While we are digressing into the abyss, lets ask Apple to include the ability to download horrid home videos from YouTube into the iPhone so we giggle silly like a disturb person on the street talking to pigeons.

Cinch

Umm...apple makes computers, remember? They are QUITE adept at making elegant MULTI-function devices.

I am SO sick of the "do one thing and do it well" argument. Apple has never, EVER been about that!!! Apple is about making products appealing and easy to use. Their mantra is "it just works". And that can apply to a very simplistic product (e.g. the iPod Shuffle), or to a much more complicated product (e.g. any Mac).

Besides, Apple is *not* the only company that wins people over because of elegant, easy-to-use design. People *love* their Blackberrys, for example, and a lot of it has to do with their simple scrollwheel-based interface. And I have a SonyEricsson and I can tell you they have *great* design for a multifunction phone. Slide the lens cover open on my phone, and the phone goes into "camera" mode. Slide it closed and it's back to the phone interface. So simple.

Why do you have such little faith in Apple to combine music and phones? It's really quite simple: a slider phone that, when closed, will look and feel exactly like an iPod. Only when you needed the phone features (or receive a call) would you even need to remember that it's also a phone.

I think this is what will make or break the iPhone: all Apple needs to have a hit on its hands is a flawless iPod experience combined with at least a decent-to-good phone. That being said, I think the iPhone will be *great* as a phone, and Apple will have a RAZR-level smash hit (hence the estimates of 10 million+ units sold in the first year).
 

BWhaler

macrumors 68040
Jan 8, 2003
3,788
6,244
No-one will buy an ipod phone unless this subsidisation occurs.

I strongly disagree. People thought no one would buy a $500 music player, and the rest is history.

Remember these customer segments:

1. Business people who pay $200-800 for a subsidized phone

2. Gadget people

3. Every day folks who will pay 250-500 for an iPod. Now they pay that much and get an iPod and a phone

4. People who will pay for quality. People who need it a tool, reliable, etc. The current phone market is pathetic and littered with low quality products.

I will spend 500 bucks in a heart beat for a no compromises, high quality phone. (And I'll buy two of them.)

Yes, Apple won't get the free phone guys or the $59 phone consumers.

That's never been Apple's target market. That's the Dell/Microsoft of the phone space. (Remember, the last 1/3 is usually backwash.
 

neoelectronaut

Cancelled
Dec 3, 2003
3,417
2,093
If I can get this thing for $50-$100. Sure.

No way in hell am I spending over $150 on a damn phone.

It'll be interesting to see, anyway.
 

~Shard~

macrumors P6
Jun 4, 2003
18,377
48
1123.6536.5321
If I can get this thing for $50-$100. Sure.

No way in hell am I spending over $150 on a damn phone.

It'll be interesting to see, anyway.

I'm sure it's been said before (I haven't had time to read the entire thread) but I think this is an important factor to consider. Spending $300 on an iPod as a media player is fine for many people. However, paying that much for a phone is a different matter. Phones are cheap these days, some providers even give them away for free when you sign contracts with them and furthermore, the technology changes extremely quickly. As a result, phones are "new" and "fresh" for only a few months and if you're using a phone which is over a year old many would refer to it as "outdated". With a great deal of mobile consumers used to paying relatively little for their phones and changing them out for the latest and greatest every year or so, I'm not sure how an expensive iPhone would be received. Guess we'll find out... :cool:
 

peharri

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2003
744
0
If I can get this thing for $50-$100. Sure.

No way in hell am I spending over $150 on a damn phone.

It'll be interesting to see, anyway.

At the risk of blessing the iPhone "exists and will be a success, elevating Apple's profits to the moon" nonsense, would you spend over $150 on something that's both an iPod/iPod-nano class MP3 player and a phone?

(I still think this is a massive mistake if Apple does it, but the logic of a phone that doubles as a high capacity MP3 player being as successful as existing MP3 players isn't something I take issue with. I just think Apple would not be the right company to directly release that product.)
 

pubius

macrumors member
Jun 26, 2003
64
13
that sounds all fine and good. i can think of one thing standing in the way thought. a lot of people HATE sliders. me included. so what now, i have to go through two motions to do anything on this phone? take off the slip cover so it's not a scratchfest, then slide after that? no way. please don't tell me the solution is the look/construction of the current nanos, that's a sure fire way to keep me from ever buying this (speculated) device.

Umm...apple makes computers, remember? They are QUITE adept at making elegant MULTI-function devices.

I am SO sick of the "do one thing and do it well" argument. Apple has never, EVER been about that!!! Apple is about making products appealing and easy to use. Their mantra is "it just works". And that can apply to a very simplistic product (e.g. the iPod Shuffle), or to a much more complicated product (e.g. any Mac).

Besides, Apple is *not* the only company that wins people over because of elegant, easy-to-use design. People *love* their Blackberrys, for example, and a lot of it has to do with their simple scrollwheel-based interface. And I have a SonyEricsson and I can tell you they have *great* design for a multifunction phone. Slide the lens cover open on my phone, and the phone goes into "camera" mode. Slide it closed and it's back to the phone interface. So simple.

Why do you have such little faith in Apple to combine music and phones? It's really quite simple: a slider phone that, when closed, will look and feel exactly like an iPod. Only when you needed the phone features (or receive a call) would you even need to remember that it's also a phone.

I think this is what will make or break the iPhone: all Apple needs to have a hit on its hands is a flawless iPod experience combined with at least a decent-to-good phone. That being said, I think the iPhone will be *great* as a phone, and Apple will have a RAZR-level smash hit (hence the estimates of 10 million+ units sold in the first year).
 

lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
that sounds all fine and good. i can think of one thing standing in the way thought. a lot of people HATE sliders. me included. so what now, i have to go through two motions to do anything on this phone? take off the slip cover so it's not a scratchfest, then slide after that? no way. please don't tell me the solution is the look/construction of the current nanos, that's a sure fire way to keep me from ever buying this (speculated) device.

Sound like the iPhone is not for you then. Who knows what the iPhone interface will really be like like, but the front of the iPhone will almost certainly look like the iPod. Slider phone is really the only option. If it's clamshell, that would imply 2 screens: one outside for the iPod functionality, and one inside for the phone functions. Not out of the question, but not likely. And I don't see how Apple could implement a candybar shape and still have the scroll wheel.

Who knows, though, maybe apple will defy my expectations and not even have a scrollwheel on the iPhone. That would be colossally stupid, IMO, though. The *one* think that could make the iPhone a success is if it looks and behaves like an iPod (when used to play music), and is similiarly priced (after the telecoms' rebates for signing a new contract).
 

lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
I'm sure it's been said before (I haven't had time to read the entire thread) but I think this is an important factor to consider. Spending $300 on an iPod as a media player is fine for many people. However, paying that much for a phone is a different matter. Phones are cheap these days, some providers even give them away for free when you sign contracts with them and furthermore, the technology changes extremely quickly. As a result, phones are "new" and "fresh" for only a few months and if you're using a phone which is over a year old many would refer to it as "outdated". With a great deal of mobile consumers used to paying relatively little for their phones and changing them out for the latest and greatest every year or so, I'm not sure how an expensive iPhone would be received. Guess we'll find out... :cool:

A few comments.

1) People *do* buy expensive phones. A lot of the "hottest" phones (e.g. the RAZR when it first came out) are expensive even with a new contract. People still buy them.

2) Most people are not willing to pay full retail price for a phone. Yes, people replace their phones quickly, but only as fast as their contract will allow.

3) If people are replacing their phones frequently now, why couldn't they replace their iPhones frequently? That's certainly *not* a bad thing for Apple! This is why I think it's actually a great business for Apple to be in: the hardware purchases are largely subsidized by rebates from the telecoms for signing a new contract. And I think that people *will* replace their iPhones frequently, but it will be with the latest iPhone model if they're already used to the iPhone being their primary music player

4) Unfortunately, I do expect that the iPhones will cost at least $200 for the "basic" one and $300 or $400 for the "PDA" one, but those prices *will* come down. Often a phone will cost that much even with a new contract when it first come out, and then within a year you can get it for free (or almost free) with a new 2-year contract. I expect the same will happen with the iPhon
 

~Shard~

macrumors P6
Jun 4, 2003
18,377
48
1123.6536.5321
1) People *do* buy expensive phones. A lot of the "hottest" phones (e.g. the RAZR when it first came out) are expensive even with a new contract. People still buy them.

True, but I would argue they are not the majority of cell phone users.

3) If people are replacing their phones frequently now, why couldn't they replace their iPhones frequently?

Because replacing a low-cost or free phone frequently is different than replacing a $300 phone frequently.

That's certainly *not* a bad thing for Apple! This is why I think it's actually a great business for Apple to be in: the hardware purchases are largely subsidized by rebates from the telecoms for signing a new contract. And I think that people *will* replace their iPhones frequently, but it will be with the latest iPhone model if they're already used to the iPhone being their primary music player

All depends on the cost. I know if I had a phone with iPod functionality it would be hard to justify buying a new one often when the iPod aspect of the device meets and exceeds all my needs and would for a few years afterwards. Case in point, my 3G iPod is over 2.5 years old and still meets my needs - I am not compelled to upgrade it in the least. Upgrading an iPhone with perfectly good iPod functionality might make some people pause and analyze the situation and their needs for a second - it is akin to throwing away that nice, perfectly working 24" display when you want to upgrade your iMac.

Of course, if Apple keeps innovating and making the new iPhone features "must haves" then this would be a different story.

4) Unfortunately, I do expect that the iPhones will cost at least $200 for the "basic" one and $300 or $400 for the "PDA" one, but those prices *will* come down. Often a phone will cost that much even with a new contract when it first come out, and then within a year you can get it for free (or almost free) with a new 2-year contract. I expect the same will happen with the iPhon

If this is indeed the case then it will be a new pricing model for Apple, so it will be interesting to see how they handle it. After all, prices on Apple computers and iPods only gradually decrease in price over time, and in most cases stay almost the same price and simply have better technology and features built in. Obviously phones are slightly different from computers/MP3 players, so as I said, it will be interesting to see if Apple does indeed offer iPhones at progressively cheaper price points or if they will simply replace old models with new, technologically superior models at the same price point.
 

zac4mac

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2002
306
2
near Boulder, CO. USA
I'll Argue that last point with you ~Shard~

I bought an iPod Video when they first came out - drove 45 miles to Denver AND paid 600 bucks for it. Now I can get one with 20GB more for 349 bucks.

In less than a year...

Z
 

~Shard~

macrumors P6
Jun 4, 2003
18,377
48
1123.6536.5321
I'll Argue that last point with you ~Shard~

I bought an iPod Video when they first came out - drove 45 miles to Denver AND paid 600 bucks for it. Now I can get one with 20GB more for 349 bucks.

In less than a year...

Actually that's a good example, thanks for that. :cool:
 
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