HomePod How can I "listen" to a room w/ HomePod?

[Jumpthesnark]

Lucky for me, I’m in NYS and going by the OP’s username, I’d venture to say they are too. Definitely do not need a sign on my property informing people that they are being recorded.

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But Apple isn't going to build devices that violate laws in some states (I think it's about 15) and then sell them in all 50.

Also, being a party to the conversation is one thing. Listening in while others talk when you're not in the room is something different, as the quote you attached says. In NY it's illegal to record a conversation that you're not part of, unless at least one of those talking has given their consent.

 

[MauiPa]

How would this be any different than a wifi security camera connected via HomeKit?

simple, if you installed a security camera you do it by choice. Listening using a device not made for security is just creep

 

[gwhizkids]

No. It really doesnt make sense. Please clarify the response you gave to that comment then, where you said "It’s doable. And yet it’s still a privacy concern." as a response to me when I suggested something similar could be done with homepod. What's the privacy concern?

It’s technically achievable and at the same time likely an unacceptable privacy concern for Apple given their announced policies.

I am not talking about any other device than the HomePods. That’s what this topic is about.

Clear enough now?

 

[gwhizkids]

But Apple isn't going to build devices that violate laws in some states (I think it's about 15) and then sell them in all 50.

Also, being a party to the conversation is one thing. Listening in while others talk when you're not in the room is something different, as the quote you attached says. In NY it's illegal to record a conversation that you're not part of, unless at least one of those talking has given their consent.

This is exactly what I am referring to. Citing one party wiretap rules is a straw man.

 

[Itinj24]

But Apple isn't going to build devices that violate laws in some states (I think it's about 15) and then sell them in all 50.

Also, being a party to the conversation is one thing. Listening in while others talk when you're not in the room is something different, as the quote you attached says. In NY it's illegal to record a conversation that you're not part of, unless at least one of those talking has given their consent.

We’re talking about listening in on a HomePod’s microphone. That makes you the one consenting party right off the bat.

Anyway, surely you’ve heard of this feature before…

Use Live Listen with AirPods or Beats - Apple Support

Hear conversations better with Live Listen.

support.apple.com

The onus of morality and legality lies with the end user, not the manufacturer. It’s already been established in this thread that the Amazon Echo has this capability.

 

[Itinj24]

simple, if you installed a security camera you do it by choice. Listening using a device not made for security is just creep

The OP was referring to listening in on a possible burglar in his home. That’s creep? You come into my home uninvited, I’m going to use any means necessary to make sure you’re not leaving that easy. Yes that includes listening devices if applicable. Their right to privacy was surrendered the second they broke that threshold.

 

[KENESS]

We’re talking about listening in on a HomePod’s microphone. That makes you the one consenting party right off the bat.

Unless I've misunderstood what you're trying to say, a person "listening in" is not a party to the conversation, unless they are also participating in the conversation, in which case they wouldn't need to be listening in since they are... in.

If the person listening in was to be considered a party, 100% of all surreptitious recordings ever recorded anywhere would already have one-party "consent" rendering the whole point moot.

Besides, as has been mentioned, that only applies to some US states. Nearly a third require all party's consent anyway.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

We’re talking about listening in on a HomePod’s microphone. That makes you the one consenting party right off the bat.

Not if you‘re eavesdropping, as the OP described wanting to listen in on what was happening live in another room. NY state law says you need to be taking part in the conversation or have permission from one of the parties involved in order to listen in or record a conversation. Same with many states and Federal law. Some states are even a mix, with one-party consent for phone calls and all-party consent for live in-person communication.

Simply having a HomePod or other device in your home doesn’t mean you’re automatically the single consenting party. You need to be taking part in the conversation.

 

[Itinj24]

Not if you‘re eavesdropping, as the OP described wanting to listen in on what was happening live in another room. NY state law says you need to be taking part in the conversation or have permission from one of the parties involved in order to listen in or record a conversation. Same with many states and Federal law. Some states are even a mix, with one-party consent for phone calls and all-party consent for live in-person communication.

Simply having a HomePod or other device in your home doesn’t mean you’re automatically the single consenting party. You need to be taking part in the conversation.

Unless I've misunderstood what you're trying to say, a person "listening in" is not a party to the conversation, unless they are also participating in the conversation, in which case they wouldn't need to be listening in since they are... in.

If the person listening in was to be considered a party, 100% of all surreptitious recordings ever recorded anywhere would already have one-party "consent" rendering the whole point moot.

Besides, as has been mentioned, that only applies to some US states. Nearly a third require all party's consent anyway.

What conversation are we even talking about? The possible burglar talking to the walls or himself? Alexa already has this feature called “Drop-In.” It’s an advertised security feature. Don’t see any lawsuits or anyone getting locked up regarding that.

You’s are getting completely carried away with this eavesdropping. This doesn’t apply. You’re not secretly listening in on two people having a conversation.

Again, this is no different from a hidden camera or even a conspicuous camera recording audio. The HomePod is not a hidden device anyway.

Just consulted with my sister, who happens to be a practicing Attorney in NYS. She agrees with me. Audio recording/streaming device in your own home is not illegal and she thought I was crazy for even asking that. Imagine that. A burglar expecting privacy in the house they’re about to burglarize. You do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in someone else’s home. If a home owner consents to a search in their own home, guests’ belongings are also subject to that search. Amazon agrees too.

 

[TechnoMonk]

It isn't.

Amazon Alexa has this feature and the ring lights up green and it makes an alert sound. It's completely doable without being a privacy concern.

Amazon Echo doesn’t do what OP wanted. Having a microphone listening is part of the solution. Apple or Amazon need to release an IPhone app which can tap in to HomePod and snoop with out lights on device. Simplest solution is a baby monitor with iPhone App or a Camera.
PS: Amazon has drop in but it lights up green. If there was an intruder, he will know.

 

[KENESS]

What conversation are we even talking about? The possible burglar talking to the walls or himself? Alexa already has this feature called “Drop-In.” It’s an advertised security feature. Don’t see any lawsuits or anyone getting locked up regarding that.

You’s are getting completely carried away with this eavesdropping. This doesn’t apply. You’re not secretly listening in on two people having a conversation.

Again, this is no different from a hidden camera or even a conspicuous camera recording audio. The HomePod is not a hidden device anyway.

Just consulted with my sister, who happens to be a practicing Attorney in NYS. She agrees with me. Audio recording/streaming device in your own home is not illegal and she thought I was crazy for even asking that. Imagine that. A burglar expecting privacy in the house they’re about to burglarize. You do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in someone else’s home. If a home owner consents to a search in their own home, guests’ belongings are also subject to that search. Amazon agrees too.

My post was solely in reference to the idea that someone listening in to a recording of a conversation is not, in fact, a party to that conversation, and therefore does not fulfill the need for one-party consent. That is the only point I made. I suppose I could have been more clear with a comment such as, "In situations where this is even an issue or relevant."

Any specific scenarios, ridiculous or credible, were not a part of the comment I made.

But if we're talking specifically about an in-home situation, I agree with you 100%.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Amazon Echo doesn’t do what OP wanted. Having a microphone listening is part of the solution. Apple or Amazon need to release an IPhone app which can tap in to HomePod and snoop with out lights on device. Simplest solution is a baby monitor with iPhone App or a Camera.
PS: Amazon has drop in but it lights up green. If there was an intruder, he will know.

He would have to be looking at said device and understand what it lighting up means. I Have echos in all of the rooms of my house. 5/8 of them also have cameras so I can listen to audio and video from the app at anytime.

 

[BanjoDudeAhoy]

With Apple’s emphasis on privacy, no way. My wife is convinced our HomePod listens in and I have to explain that other than listening for “Siri” it does not. And I’m grateful for that.

At the risk of derailing this slightly, I remember several (more or less joking) conversations on these forums about how changing from "Hey, Siri" to just "Siri" was going to be a nightmare because it would pick up "cereal", "series", "seriously" etc.
I'm somewhat surprised at how well it works and I'm now tempted to get a HomePod myself for timers, reminders, music and the like.

 

[Itinj24]

My post was solely in reference to the idea that someone listening in to a recording of a conversation is not, in fact, a party to that conversation, and therefore does not fulfill the need for one-party consent. That is the only point I made. I suppose I could have been more clear with a comment such as, "In situations where this is even an issue or relevant."

Any specific scenarios, ridiculous or credible, were not a part of the comment I made.

But if we're talking specifically about an in-home situation, I agree with you 100%.

Apparently, this thread has been derailed a bit lol. I believe this whole legality debate started with me being told I need to install a sign on my property before I can use a listening device within my home, when guests enter.

I was trying to stick to the main point of the OP’s query and then some misunderstandings here and there, it happens. I understand the single and multiple party conversational recording consent but this whole time, I was also trying to understand what that has to do with a HomePod being used as an in-home security listening device.

 

[Rainshadow]

I agree. It’s already being used for smoke alarm detection so it already must be always listening. I fail to see how this is a privacy issue in your own home.

You’re kidding right? You fail to see how this is a privacy concern? Also, if it’s listening for a fire alarm it doesn’t mean it’s always listening. It’s like a “hey siri” command.

It’s a privacy concern because people - even family - have what’s called a “reasonable expectation of privacy”. Most states have laws against recording folks without their knowledge or consent. There are states called two party consent - meaning all parties involved must consent. And there are states with one party consent, meaning someone in the party must consent. I’m not aware of a place where there is a free for all on recording without anyone’s consent - though perhaps that does exist.

Having a device record surreptitiously - even in your own house -(frankly I find that more frightening - think abusive relationships) is horrifying.

Sure, there are other ways to do this. But Apple would very likely avoid this legal conundrum at all costs. I could only imagine the headlines the week after this feature was dropped.

If this became a “feature” I would drop these devices off at the nearest goodwill and believe it or not, I too have “nothing to hide”. In fact I have devices that are video and voice recorders in my home. But they are placed in particular areas for specific reasons. And I am very particular about the companies I use.

Because I realize if I can access that data, more than likely someone else can as well. which is why I would toss the HomePods I have throughout my house as they are placed throughout

 

[DaPhox]

I agree. It’s already being used for smoke alarm detection so it already must be always listening. I fail to see how this is a privacy issue in your own home.

Where else would it be a privacy issue if not at Home?

 

[Shanghaichica]

The exact same thing happened to be last night. Admittedly I had fallen asleep with my headphones in so could have been something from there that woke me up but I heard a loud banging noise. I was able to listen in and have a view of all the feeds from my echos around the house. Couldn’t see anything. Must have been from the headphones though lol

 

[missingar]

Amazon Echo doesn’t do what OP wanted. Having a microphone listening is part of the solution. Apple or Amazon need to release an IPhone app which can tap in to HomePod and snoop with out lights on device. Simplest solution is a baby monitor with iPhone App or a Camera.
PS: Amazon has drop in but it lights up green. If there was an intruder, he will know.

I’m not following. It sounds like drop in is exactly what OP wanted isn’t it?

You’re kidding right? You fail to see how this is a privacy concern? Also, if it’s listening for a fire alarm it doesn’t mean it’s always listening. It’s like a “hey siri” command.

It’s a privacy concern because people - even family - have what’s called a “reasonable expectation of privacy”. Most states have laws against recording folks without their knowledge or consent. There are states called two party consent - meaning all parties involved must consent. And there are states with one party consent, meaning someone in the party must consent. I’m not aware of a place where there is a free for all on recording without anyone’s consent - though perhaps that does exist.

Having a device record surreptitiously - even in your own house -(frankly I find that more frightening - think abusive relationships) is horrifying.

Sure, there are other ways to do this. But Apple would very likely avoid this legal conundrum at all costs. I could only imagine the headlines the week after this feature was dropped.

If this became a “feature” I would drop these devices off at the nearest goodwill and believe it or not, I too have “nothing to hide”. In fact I have devices that are video and voice recorders in my home. But they are placed in particular areas for specific reasons. And I am very particular about the companies I use.

Because I realize if I can access that data, more than likely someone else can as well. which is why I would toss the HomePods I have throughout my house as they are placed throughout

All this rant about recording when the post you quoted said "listening", which are two very different things.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I’m not following. It sounds like drop in is exactly what OP wanted isn’t it?

All this rant about recording when the post you quoted said "listening", which are two very different things.

You can just use the camera feature which is even more subtle than a full on drop in. With the camera feature the other side doesn’t have to be able to see or hear you. You can literal just look and listen in and you have the option to turn on the mic but they don’t see you.

 

[Rainshadow]

I’m not following. It sounds like drop in is exactly what OP wanted isn’t it?

All this rant about recording when the post you quoted said "listening", which are two very different things.

A device listening and replaying is recording. They are not two different things. Listening to a conversation that you are not a part of is the legal application of recording. So, you are wrong.

 

[missingar]

A device listening and replaying is recording. They are not two different things. Listening to a conversation that you are not a part of is the legal application of recording. So, you are wrong.

This thread isn't about legal application. It's about practical application, and to everybody else, a recording is when sound is captured to be played back. Nobody except you and I guess some lawyers use recording to mean real-time relay of sound.

 

[Itinj24]

You’re kidding right? You fail to see how this is a privacy concern? Also, if it’s listening for a fire alarm it doesn’t mean it’s always listening. It’s like a “hey siri” command.

It’s a privacy concern because people - even family - have what’s called a “reasonable expectation of privacy”. Most states have laws against recording folks without their knowledge or consent. There are states called two party consent - meaning all parties involved must consent. And there are states with one party consent, meaning someone in the party must consent. I’m not aware of a place where there is a free for all on recording without anyone’s consent - though perhaps that does exist.

Having a device record surreptitiously - even in your own house -(frankly I find that more frightening - think abusive relationships) is horrifying.

Sure, there are other ways to do this. But Apple would very likely avoid this legal conundrum at all costs. I could only imagine the headlines the week after this feature was dropped.

If this became a “feature” I would drop these devices off at the nearest goodwill and believe it or not, I too have “nothing to hide”. In fact I have devices that are video and voice recorders in my home. But they are placed in particular areas for specific reasons. And I am very particular about the companies I use.

Because I realize if I can access that data, more than likely someone else can as well. which is why I would toss the HomePods I have throughout my house as they are placed throughout

If you’re only going to cherry pick parts of this thread, and not everything I posted, then I’m not going to bother with your post any further. I already said my peace on everything you mentioned here and I’m not going to repeat myself. You can disagree if you’d like. I’m not bothered by that.

Besides, you kinda lost me at the first paragraph. How can you believe that the HomePod isn’t always listening? You do know that it has to always listen for the “Hey Siri” command, right? Just because it only responds to “Hey Siri” or a smoke alarm doesn’t mean it’s not always listening. If the mic is completely off, how the hell is it going to hear a smoke alarm or you saying “Hey Siri?” You’re kidding, right?

You do know Apple was caught listening in on “Hey Siri” commands a few years back, right?

 

[Itinj24]

The exact same thing happened to be last night. Admittedly I had fallen asleep with my headphones in so could have been something from there that woke me up but I heard a loud banging noise. I was able to listen in and have a view of all the feeds from my echos around the house. Couldn’t see anything. Must have been from the headphones though lol

Sounds like an awesome feature that some people here think is illegal, or invading their privacy. Imagine that, a possible burglar having an expectation of privacy in YOUR home lol.

 

[Rainshadow]

This thread isn't about legal application. It's about practical application, and to everybody else, a recording is when sound is captured to be played back. Nobody except you and I guess some lawyers use recording to mean real-time relay of sound.

And, I don’t know… maybe Apple?

 

[Rainshadow]

If you’re only going to cherry pick parts of this thread, and not everything I posted, then I’m not going to bother with your post any further. I already said my peace on everything you mentioned here and I’m not going to repeat myself. You can disagree if you’d like. I’m not bothered by that.

Besides, you kinda lost me at the first paragraph. How can you believe that the HomePod isn’t always listening? You do know that it has to always listen for the “Hey Siri” command, right? Just because it only responds to “Hey Siri” or a smoke alarm doesn’t mean it’s not always listening. If the mic is completely off, how the hell is it going to hear a smoke alarm or you saying “Hey Siri?” You’re kidding, right?

You do know Apple was caught listening in on “Hey Siri” commands a few years back, right?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but they weren’t listening all the time. They were forwarding recordings (which some of you claim aren’t happening) to a company for quality control after “hey siri” was activated to try and better the recognition. Recordings that were activated ON DEVICE, not always and continually uploading to the cloud or Apple. Way different things. And guess what, they got in trouble for it. Even though it was only snippets of recording only after the device was activated on site - not the cloud.

A device can always listen, but not be storing, uploading or computing the information, only to be activated when the proper noise is heard.

So, no. Your points still don’t make sense.