How would you explain ghosting smearing display on “premium product” mbp for years if you were an Apple manager?

[emraha06]

This problem continues since 2016 touch bar models and there is no improvement. Ghosting/smearing got worse in latest 16” model. Is not there anybody or Department in thousands of apple engineers that hears the complaints, notice the problem and check the 16 inch units for this issue? Is this so hard to make a low pixel response time display. These displays are not static photograph viewer, they are dynamic image monitors but why Apple does not improve its perspective according to this...???

 

[robvas]

None of the YouTubers that use their MacBook Pros for video editing have complained about this...if it were a big problem, Dave Lee or Lew or Linus would have made a video about it like they did about the 'real' problems with the previous MacBooks, like throttling, the keyboard, etc

 

[mightyjabba]

Why does this need a separate thread? The discussion has been done to death. If you think the screen is unacceptable, don't buy one. Personally, I am fine with it and would never have noticed anything if people hadn't made a big deal about it. That said, I do think Apple will probably eventually go with a higher refresh screen like they did with the iPad Pros, but the fact is that most MBP users don't really put a high priority on refresh rate (which has generally been something that gamers care about).

 

[fs454]

Keep waiting if you don't like it. I think the screen is great for what it is, it's a bummer I can't have a competitive gaming sweatfest on it but it's one thousand percent fine for video work, which is what I bought it for. Works the same as my Late 2016, which worked the same as my Late 2013 rMBP. Motion blur is an expected component of cinematography and the consumer view of eliminating all blur is not shared in the industry. The level of ghosting on these displays is not enough to compromise their usefulness in video work. If you're mastering on this laptop for major broadcast or distribution you really should be using a proper grading monitor or sending to a color house for finishing anyways.

Right now this display is what Apple believes is the best compromise between thickness, response time, image quality, brightness, and power consumption. The battery capacity is at the FAA legal limit and Intel's CPUs are as hot as ever so there's simply no room for improvement at the moment without going in a direction they don't want to go, like backpedaling on battery life claims or making the notebook even thicker than it already is with the 16"s increase in size. If this is a dealbreaker for you wait a few more years or buy a Dell or some other machine with a low-ppi 1080p high refresh display. This is where things stand with Apple, and there are hundreds of thousands of happy customers working on these machines and not worrying about response time.

 

[emraha06]

Keep waiting if you don't like it. I think the screen is great for what it is, it's a bummer I can't have a competitive gaming sweatfest on it but it's one thousand percent fine for video work, which is what I bought it for. Works the same as my Late 2016, which worked the same as my Late 2013 rMBP. Motion blur is an expected component of cinematography and the consumer view of eliminating all blur is not shared in the industry. The level of ghosting on these displays is not enough to compromise their usefulness in video work. If you're mastering on this laptop for major broadcast or distribution you really should be using a proper grading monitor or sending to a color house for finishing anyways.

Right now this display is what Apple believes is the best compromise between thickness, response time, image quality, brightness, and power consumption. The battery capacity is at the FAA legal limit and Intel's CPUs are as hot as ever so there's simply no room for improvement at the moment without going in a direction they don't want to go, like backpedaling on battery life claims or making the notebook even thicker than it already is with the 16"s increase in size. If this is a dealbreaker for you wait a few more years or buy a Dell or some other machine with a low-ppi 1080p high refresh display. This is where things stand with Apple, and there are hundreds of thousands of happy customers working on these machines and not worrying about response time.

There are hundreds or thousands angry customers because of text smearing during scroll on so expensive device. This is a premium product of Apple which is leader company on the market

@robvas @mightyjabba

 

[XNorth]

Apple manager: "Without going into details about all the business and technical factors in our decision making, this is the best MacBook Pro display with current technology for a balance between performance and efficiency at this price point. We know what we are doing given our priorities."

 

[bobbie424242]

As an Apple Manager I would say that 'The 16" MacBook Pro display is our best laptop display yet! It's clarity is amazing and unsurpassed with billions pristine colors'.

 

[robvas]

There are hundreds of thousands angry customers because of text smearing during scroll on so expensive device. This is a premium product of Apple which is leader company on the market

@robvas @mightyjabba

Hundreds of thousands?

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

Lol hundreds of thousands? Sorry, no.

Return it if it’s a problem. I’ve had mine almost a month now and I see zero issues with the display ‘ghosting’.

Maybe you should spend less time snapping photos of little cartoon UFOs zipping by on your screen and more time working or whatever it is you bought the computer for.

This ‘problem’ might be the biggest joke of all the MBP16 ‘problems’. What excuse do you actually have for not just returning the laptop and buying something else? I’ve watched action movie scenes on my laptop and I don’t see any ghosts. Fake problem.

 

[watchmainspring]

Why does this need a separate thread? The discussion has been done to death. If you think the screen is unacceptable, don't buy one. Personally, I am fine with it and would never have noticed anything if people hadn't made a big deal about it. That said, I do think Apple will probably eventually go with a higher refresh screen like they did with the iPad Pros, but the fact is that most MBP users don't really put a high priority on refresh rate (which has generally been something that gamers care about).

I don't notice any ghosting/smearing, even when I try to look for it. I had a laptop with a 486 processor almost 20 years ago where such a phenomena was noticeable. Also, even for video games I don't notice any issues with 60Hz refresh rate. We are talking 60 distinct imagines being presented within 1 second; that's basically the physiological limit for most people and more than enough for me to feel things are running very smoothly.

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

To answer the OP question, if I were manager, I’m sure I’d try to be understanding at first, you’d have to, but upon the 2nd or 3rd or 4th return for the same issue I’d suggest that individual try a different computer and they would be cut off of future returns at my store.

 

[emraha06]

Lol hundreds of thousands? Sorry, no.

Return it if it’s a problem. I’ve had mine almost a month now and I see zero issues with the display ‘ghosting’.

Maybe you should spend less time snapping photos of little cartoon UFOs zipping by on your screen and more time working or whatever it is you bought the computer for.

This ‘problem’ might be the biggest joke of all the MBP16 ‘problems’. What excuse do you actually have for not just returning the laptop and buying something else? I’ve watched action movie scenes on my laptop and I don’t see any ghosts. Fake problem.

if you do not notice same thing when you try at dark mode that shown in the video, then you are the luckiest person on the planet ?? is this normal ör acceptable for a premium device god sake!!! @Winstonp @bobbie424242 @XNorth

 

[Psyclism]

I guess some of us actually use our computers for tasks like typing, coding, reading, etc and don't spend a majority of our day dragging the preferences pane in circles to see if icons leave little comet like trails.

I see the ghosting on my computer, but it's not something that actually impacts usage, IMO. If I'm scrolling text at full speed, I certainly can't read the text nor would I expect to be able to. Maybe it does have a negative effect on gaming, but MBP's aren't marketed or sold as gaming machines. In fact, they've long been considered one of the worst options for gamers, since Apple designs and optimizes these machines for content creation, not late night Red Bull fueled frag sessions.

 

[Viamusic10000]

There are hundreds or thousands angry customers because of text smearing during scroll on so expensive device. This is a premium product of Apple which is leader company on the market

@robvas @mightyjabba

Then don't buy it if you it bothers you. I notice the ghosting but it doesn't bother me. Most of the time I'm doing work on my laptop not staring at the screen.

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

if you do not notice same thing when you try at dark mode that shown in the video, then you are the luckiest person on the planet ?? is this normal ör acceptable for a premium device god sake!!! @Winstonp @bobbie424242 @XNorth

Yes, completely normal.

So what, you took a photo or video of your screen while dragging the window around? This ghosting thing always comes down to the same ‘evidence’ - cell phone photos of the computer screen while something is moving on it. I’m not the least bit surprised that that’s what it looks like when you take a photo or a video of the computer screen while something is moving. What a dumb thing to obsess over. Just return it and get a dell.

Have you even tried hooking your new MacBook Pro up to an external monitor and tried using it with both displays to see if you have the heat and blasting fans problem? That’s a way more real one. How about the audio popping issue? Slow WiFi speeds? System restarting due to error when asleep on battery? There are so many potential issues that are higher on the list than this stupid ghosting, by the time you figure out you can live with it, you’ve wasted your 14 day return window taking photos of your computer screen and posting about it online, and didn’t even investigate the REAL potential issues you should have been looking at.

For the record, I’m keeping mine, I’ve only had minor issues and they seem to have worked themselves out for the time being. Ghosting has never been a problem or even a concern for me.

 

[MacMaze]

I own a 2012 MBP retina and a 2019 16 inch MBP and although I am quite happy with 2019 model (especially the Touch Bar and speakers are a big improvement), I agree the smearing on the 2019 model is far worse than on the 2012 model. Actually the initial retina display was/is so good that there is no observable ghosting and/or smearing. I primarily use the MBP to write and review texts so scrolling though text is something I do quite a lot. As soon as I started using the 2019 model it was like a throwback in time to the first laptop I have ever used with a passive LCD. Scrolling through text (or webpages) simply means all text fades from black to blueish and there is a lot of 'trailing'. This has nothing to do with the refresh rate of the screen but with the slow response time of the individual pixels when going from black to white or the other way around. As said this isn't a huge problem but is certainly a step backwards compared to the original retina display. I see a lot of comments on this forum suggesting this is the compromise Apple made due to battery, resolution, etc. I simply fail to understand why they can't at least keep the same quality standards for their screens as they did in 2012/2013 when batteries and performance were worse than nowadays.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I notice it happens mostly when attempting to use the computer while it's cold.. Usually below 35c, after the panel heats up a bit the ghosting gets much better.

However it's still got enough ghosting to not play any games on it.

 

[emraha06]

Yes, completely normal.

So what, you took a photo or video of your screen while dragging the window around? This ghosting thing always comes down to the same ‘evidence’ - cell phone photos of the computer screen while something is moving on it. I’m not the least bit surprised that that’s what it looks like when you take a photo or a video of the computer screen while something is moving. What a dumb thing to obsess over. Just return it and get a dell.

Have you even tried hooking your new MacBook Pro up to an external monitor and tried using it with both displays to see if you have the heat and blasting fans problem? That’s a way more real one. How about the audio popping issue? Slow WiFi speeds? System restarting due to error when asleep on battery? There are so many potential issues that are higher on the list than this stupid ghosting, by the time you figure out you can live with it, you’ve wasted your 14 day return window taking photos of your computer screen and posting about it online, and didn’t even investigate the REAL potential issues you should have been looking at.

For the record, I’m keeping mine, I’ve only had minor issues and they seem to have worked themselves out for the time being. Ghosting has never been a problem or even a concern for me.

the brands improve their products year by year but apple made the display worse in 2016/2019 compared to 2013/2014 models. How do you explain this? Altough the LCD technology goes further by years why/how response times of new models got worse?
I have to say it again: these premium products are not electronic photo album viewer, they are dynamic monitors

by the way i think you will notice text smearing every time you scroll after joining this thread

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

No, haven’t noticed any text smearing, anyway I don’t try to read text while I’m scrolling, don’t really see what the big deal is. If the only way to see the problem is to go outside of normal use to look for it then it’s not a real problem to me. I’m not convinced that anything about this display is worse than older displays.

 

[MacMaze]

I am sorry to say but when reviewing texts you do still keep your eyes on the text and you continue reading while scrolling (at least I do, to quickly skim through text).You could easily do this on the 2012 model. On the 2019 model however this becomes quite hard to do. Due to the text smearing it becomes hard to focus on the text and you really need to interrupt the scrolling in order to be able to read. So for me, this is a step backwards and I think I am not the only one. I guess developers have the same issue as they also need to be able to quickly skim through their code.

 

[emraha06]

@Camarillo Brillo as @MacMaze told, this is what people make angry and discuss the problem for hundreds of entries. Text smearing during Scrolling in 16 mbp is terrible ? i know this is not gaming laptop but what about coders opinion about this smearing especially in dark background?

 

[impulse462]

the brands improve their products year by year but apple made the display worse in 2016/2019 compared to 2013/2014 models. How do you explain this? Altough the LCD technology goes further by years why/how response times of new models got worse?
I have to say it again: these premium products are not electronic photo album viewer, they are dynamic monitors

by the way i think you will notice text smearing every time you scroll after joining this thread

they may be worse in response time but they screens are much better overall. have you even looked at them side by side? i doubt you have judging by this statement. the color accuracy for one its way better.

 

[emraha06]

they may be worse in response time but they screens are much better overall. have you even looked at them side by side? i doubt you have judging by this statement. the color accuracy for one its way better.

you are right the color profile is amazing, i accept this but if i wanted to view my photos as portraits or screensaver, this display would be exact match but due to very bad, terrible response time of pixels it is very annoying to notice terrible smearing during scroll. If you pay attention, i just gave an example about a simple process like scrolling of a text. You can think coders or animation makers situation on this display. We are in 2020 and apple still choices 60hz display with terrible response time ??

@Camarillo Brillo

 

[Sanpete]

How do you explain this?

It has been suggested above and repoeatedly in the large thread about this topic that there may be a tradeoff between increased color accuracy and brightness on the one hand and response time on the other. I don't know how true that is. Also, it may also be a matter of cost. No doubt it will improve eventually, as more people focus on it instead of the keyboard and costs come down.

 

[impulse462]

you are right the color profile is amazing, i accept this but if i wanted to view my photos as portraits or screensaver, this display would be exact match but due to very bad, terrible response time of pixels it is very annoying to notice terrible smearing during scroll. If you pay attention, i just gave an example about a simple process like scrolling of a text. You can think coders or animation makers situation on this display. We are in 2020 and apple still choices 60hz display with terrible response time ??

@Camarillo Brillo

I program all day and I have no issues with it. In dark mode if i consciously look for text ghosting while im scrolling I see it. but i'm not reading or writing code while scrolling. not really sure what the big deal is.

as for animation, i don't do anything. i have a friend who works at a major animation studio and, of people he has talked to, most don't notice or mind. although a lot of them are plugged into 144hz displays even if they are using a laptop so the laptop screen seems a moot point to them