I did the demo, its awesome, but I'm still not buying right now

[TheRealDrJones]

We now have transparent OLED TVs.. I can see a near future edition of the Vision Pro like a wraparound visor.

Yes, but you need lenses to be able to look at it at close distance. And lenses take space.

 

[daanodinot]

Simple glasses that can do what AVP (and other VR headsets are doing) are so far in the future

Decades, barring some massive change in battery technology.

This is not a "next year" or "next version of AVP" thing at all

Yes, don’t set your alarm bell for Apple Glasses. Hope you’re still alive.

 

[4sallypat]

Yes, don’t set your alarm bell for Apple Glasses. Hope you’re still alive.

😂 Funny!

Gee I hope to see Apple Glasses before I pass which may be sooner than later as I just hit 60 years!

 

[Surf Monkey]

I believe that when we talk about "pair of glasses" we are obviously referring to the size and comfort of a pair of glasses. And that will happen much sooner than people think, maybe a decade or less.

No it won’t.

 

[AgentElliot007]

Not to be indelicate, but would you characterize your nose as small or large? I am NOT trying to discount what you are saying, or defending Apple, sincerely interested in why people's legitimate comfort experiences vary so widely. Me, I definitely have a small nose, I don't want to call it petite cause that sounds weak, but eh, it's small. I feel zero pressure on my actual nose wearing the AVP for five hours straight. I feel pressure on my forehead, and on my cheek bones, but zero on or around my nose. So yep, when people report actual nose pain, got to wonder about the size of their nose, or maybe my nose just got frostbit once or twice too often. I almost also curious because my wife has a large nose, and just want to be tuned in to her discomfort when I have her try it.

edit. btw, I should have led with thank you for your in-depth review. I did enjoy reading it.

I would say I have a fairly average nose, not overly large or small, but the pain that was most bothersome was less on my nose and more on my sinuses around my nose. The realignment and adjustment of the band took the initial nose pain away, and I wonder if not for the bad initial fit perhaps my nose would've hurt less. I was in an uncomfortable unaligned state for a good five minutes while my guide struggled with finding his place and who knows what with the demo; very much first day vibes on the demo as they were running late and the demo guides seemed either robotic or lost from what I observed.

But anyways, the sinus pressure of having it pressed in that area was what really bothered me, and that might be a personal problem. I have terrible allergies and get a lot of sinus headaches in general, so it's a sensitive area of my face that's prone to pain.

It's really tough to say what one would learn to tolerate in time, and I'm certain the other band or some future 3P band will vastly improve the weight displacement. Still, not the greatest initial experience that's fairly surprising for Apple. As I read somewhere, the single band very much seems to exist for the sake of marketing. Aside from ol' caseless Gruber who always seems to have a slightly smoother experience than I or my friends ever do, I haven't heard much of anyone say they're fine with the single band.

 

[AgentElliot007]

This. I had to train myself with Siri or Alexa to really enunciate clearly and slowly to be reliably understood. My normal rapid fire speaking is hit or miss still.

with eye tracking and gestures, I am having to learn to train my eyes to linger on what I am looking at while pinching my fingers together. this is REALLY hard for me, my eyes are constantly flicking about, so its hard to get good control (FOR ME). I am getting better after .. 15 hours now, but it is taking time for me to master. There is definite lag in the device. Also a problem for me is, well, I tend to fidget, even while pinching my fingers, so what I mean as a click sometimes becomes a selection of text. or worse. I have to learn to keep my hands still while pinching. It's definitely a learning curve, intuitively obvious from the start, time to master (FOR ME). I am hoping that Apple will, if they havent already, figuring out how to implement some sort of learning program so that it starts to figure, um when this guy pinches he means the thing he was looking at 10 ms ago, or , yeah thats a pinch not a had wave. But that is likely far off in the future. I dont think it's just a hardware limitation is what I am suggesting. Though I do have to keep my hands in very plain site.

I was shocked how quickly I took to the eye tracking. I am a classically trained musician, so I wonder if perhaps the mind-hand connection associated with reading music notes and tab and directly associating it with actions in my hand perhaps helped here. Who knows what these Apple folks are supposed to say, but the guy actually seemed really surprised how quickly I took to it and as he struggled to figure out where he was, I was clicking around like crazy all over playing with everything and I honestly found that aspect significantly easier than I expected and frankly delightful.

It was so good it brought me to this thought: I wish I could have a pair of light weight glasses that only did the eye and hand tracking; basically all sensors, no screens, VR, AR, or MR. Purely a eye/hand tracking interface device. I'd pay $999 for that with AirPod-like device switching that relayed to the screen of whatever device I was interacting with (including Apple TV I MEAN COME ON THINK ABOUT IT WITH ME!!!) in a heartbeat and be losing my mind over how cool it is. I'd probably pay $1999 if they could make them look and feel like normal glasses; throw the battery on a neckband behind the thing for added functionality. That's how good I think that part is and how amazing I think it could be moving from device to device in the real world.

The keyboard/hand input part of typing on the thing though is straight broke and what was profoundly frustrating about the overall eye/hand tracking experience to me. Dictation is better than people give it credit for, but sometimes you don't want to speak. They need a much better text entry solution that doesn't involve a bluetooth keyboard fast. Feels like a glaring and literally painful issue to me based on my miserable experience yesterday. That level of fussiness for more than a word or two was the only part of the experience that gave me eye strain. Absolutely terrible experience; it was so bad I can't believe they didn't try to hide it. I can't remember if I stumbled on it myself and ventured outside the lines of the demo or not, but boy oh boy was it bad, especially after I made a mistake. Total absolute nightmare.

 

[G5isAlive]

I would say I have a fairly average nose, not overly large or small, but the pain that was most bothersome was less on my nose and more on my sinuses around my nose.

thanks for the clarification… I was wondering but I lean towards literal 😂

 

[Night Spring]

It was so good it brought me to this thought: I wish I could have a pair of light weight glasses that only did the eye and hand tracking; basically all sensors, no screens, VR, AR, or MR. Purely a eye/hand tracking interface device. I'd pay $999 for that

I see what you mean, but I think at least half, if not more, of VP's weight and bulk are sensors and cameras to make the hand and eye tracking work. I suspect if Apple had been willing to put all of VP's control functions into hand held controllers, they would be able to make a device much closer to the size of regular glasses.

 

[AgentElliot007]

I see what you mean, but I think at least half, if not more, of VP's weight and bulk are sensors and cameras to make the hand and eye tracking work. I suspect if Apple had been willing to put all of VP's control functions into hand held controllers, they would be able to make a device much closer to the size of regular glasses.

No doubt, but I wonder if they focused the goals purely on sensors required to track hands and eyes how quickly they could miniaturize that, again, with no added complications of screens or instant reproduction of MR environment. This would be a device that purely interfaced with other screens, and personally, I think it'd be brilliant and incredible if they could make something more akin to traditional glasses that simply did this. They'd be way more approachable than full VR headsets as they're ultimately no different than normal glasses, don't take you out of anything, and purely give you a means to interact with screens without touching them; almost magic.

Maybe it boils down to something fundamental or philosophical, but as exciting as I found the hand and eye tracking, and how visually impressive the media consumption angle of it was in the moment, something about the idea of disconnecting like that feels backwards to me.

It's hard to explain, but the only thing I've walked away from that demo experience really wanting is a lightweight pair of glasses that would give me the eye and hand tracking capability on any screen Apple deemed me worthy to connect to. If lightweight and "normal" and "socially invisible," I would buy them on the spot at probably even $3499. That is the product I now want.

 

[Jensend]

I see what you mean, but I think at least half, if not more, of VP's weight and bulk are sensors and cameras to make the hand and eye tracking work. I suspect if Apple had been willing to put all of VP's control functions into hand held controllers, they would be able to make a device much closer to the size of regular glasses.

A lot of the bulk is due to support of IPD adjustment. It supports a range of 51-75 mm, which basically means there needs to be 24 mm of linear empty space for the lens/screen units to move through (unless the 51-75 mm includes allowances for eyes not being perfectly centered). Also, the motor and rails that the lens/screen units move along takes up quite a lot of space.

 

[Night Spring]

but I wonder if they focused the goals purely on sensors required to track hands and eyes how quickly they could miniaturize that, again, with no added complications of screens or instant reproduction of MR environment.

Again, I totally get why you would want such a thing, but I don't think taking out the screen will get the miniaturization process going faster. I think the screen is probably the least complex element in the VP. I mean, VP has cameras that point down to capture your hand movements, and cameras that look at your eyes to track eye movements. Even if you take out the screen, all those cameras are still needed to track your eyes and hands. It's like, as long as we are putting all those cameras on a person's face, might as well add a screen, rather than the screen is the main thing and the hand and eye tracking is there to support the VR/AR.

 

[nexx27]

I think the laws of physics have to enter the discussion at some point. People keep saying that the this is just a first gen product and subsequent iterations will be so much better, etc. Future generations of this device might be a somewhat smaller and lighter but do I ever see something like this being the size and weight of a normal pair of glasses, or a contact lens? Never. You'll still need some type of external battery.

That being said, I read something today that makes me think that there will be a future for these types of devices. Someone in another thread posted that they recorded a spatial video or whatever its called of their sleeping infant. Watching it again was described as the closest that they could ever come to reliving a memory. That really stuck with me, having experienced loss of loved ones in the past year (my dad and my dog). A headset type device as an alternative type of monitor for a computer or tablet device is very appealing, especially when it would allow reliving a treasured memory of a loved one or a special place. It would be a much more logical application in my eyes anyway than having computer strapped to my forehead all day.

I’m sure over the years it will get slimmer and slimmer… Right now as it is, it doesnt justify the price.

But, lets change perspective, even the device in its current shape and limitations there’s a long way that could be explored through apps and content

For example, if I could “visit” Louvre museum from my home, move around, see every piece of art in VR with such a device, them I might consider it.. Or walk in yellowstone park, or disney, or mars!

The mac virtual desktop, it is very limited (even ridiculous) as it is right now. Imagine there’s no virtual screen, and you could open mac apps and put it in your entire canvas, as an unlimited canvas with no “screen”… suppose it could increase usable space to more than say 4 or 5 displays virtually.. that could make a lot of sense for productivity… or even to power users..

Imagine you could buy a ticket to an NBA game and “seat” in the very specific place that you bought the ticket. So you could watch the entire game, could even talk to someone from that perspective. Could even buy the ticket and sit next to jack nicholson and talk to him as you’re there.. Imagine even your persona is displayed lively on a screen in the seat, smiling, waving, shouting!

Soon we’ll start to talk about exclusive content, In VR, like we see in netflix. Like Louvre digital is on Apple, NBA live experience its on Meta, the MMA on microsoft’s…

The point is, there’s huge, infinite potential in VR, even the device in the current shape could do all of that, and thats not exclusive for apple, but for every VR player. Even a 499 usd quest 3 device could do all of that…

So its a matter of apps improving, devices getting better and better, more immersive content, competition and the market adjusting the prices.

The AVP its not the beginning, since it isnt the first VR/AR glasses, but its Apple take on it. If they could repeat the iphone history, and I hope they do, it will be great. But anyway its nice for sucha a huge company like that to enter that market. Its like fresh air and a huge push for the vr industry.

 

[arkitect]

😂 Funny!

Gee I hope to see Apple Glasses before I pass which may be sooner than later as I just hit 60 years!

Congratulations!
Just hit 60 myself last week… 😱

Alas, being realistic, I suspect I won't be around to experience the magical Apple Glasses, the tech seems to be hitting some true physical barriers to miniaturise much further.
Maybe the toddlers we see today will… though they'll probably have other concerns by then.
🙂

 

[arkitect]

Imagine you could buy a ticket to an NBA game and “seat” in the very specific place that you bought the ticket. So you could watch the entire game, could even talk to someone from that perspective. Could even buy the ticket and sit next to jack nicholson and talk to him as you’re there.. Imagine even your persona is displayed lively on a screen in the seat, smiling, waving, shouting!

This is something I see mentioned often, and I do find it curious.

I love rugby. That's my game! Now… When our local team plays I go to the stadium, sit in the cold (it usually is) and rain (it usually does).
But, the match atmosphere is wonderful — especially in a smaller city such as Bath (winning is an all too infrequent bonus!). The noise, the smell of the mystery meat pies, the banter with your neighbours, yes even the huddling against the weather.

However, seeing it on TV sitting on my sofa, is far, far better and gives me a game over view second to none.
The cameras are everywhere, pitch side microphones etc.
Much better than a fixed point in the stands.

In the stands it is all about the atmosphere and the overall view not that great.

If the AVP could replicate that complete experience, then yes. Maybe.

🙂

 

[klasma]

Again, I totally get why you would want such a thing, but I don't think taking out the screen will get the miniaturization process going faster. I think the screen is probably the least complex element in the VP. I mean, VP has cameras that point down to capture your hand movements, and cameras that look at your eyes to track eye movements. Even if you take out the screen, all those cameras are still needed to track your eyes and hands. It's like, as long as we are putting all those cameras on a person's face, might as well add a screen, rather than the screen is the main thing and the hand and eye tracking is there to support the VR/AR.

In addition, accurately recognizing your finger gestures, the edges of the screen that you want to operate, and where exactly on it your eyes are focusing, requires nontrivial processing power, and fast enough to not have any perceptible delay. Those glasses would still require a powerful SoC, with the associated power usage and thermal management.

It won't be feasible to pack all of that into a glasses-like form factor anytime soon.

 

[ZiBart]

I dont think Apple has ever released a product when the cons outweighed the pros so much at launch. However, i do understand their logic and reason to get it out in the wild so that it puts pressure on faster hardware innovation and ecosystem/software development so those many cons get fixed in future gens. I guess the few pros seem fantastic enough to justify the many cons. I like this approach by Apple but only in a unique situation and unique product like AVP.

That being said, I would never buy this in a million years in its current form/price. Once they get at least half the tech from AVP into a similar form factor of the RayBan Meta glasses, at half the price or less, im in.

I hate to be judgmental, but people wearing these outdoors on way to shop or work, looks so ridiculous and unsafe. Im still annoyed by everyone staring at their phones while walking and crossing streets. This is about 30 levels above that.

 

[MisterSavage]

Yeah $3500 for what it is just isn't going to cut it and besides that, that would definitely be the most expensive tech I've ever bought by a long shot, it's super fragile, and like the OP said I'm sure it is amazing but not $3500 amazing.

That's kind of my thought too. I paid that much for my Mac but I get heavy usage from that every single day. I'm not convinced the same would be the same for the AVP. I have no doubt that it's cool though!

 

[robertosh]

Imagine you could buy a ticket to an NBA game and “seat” in the very specific place that you bought the ticket. So you could watch the entire game, could even talk to someone from that perspective. Could even buy the ticket and sit next to jack nicholson and talk to him as you’re there.. Imagine even your persona is displayed lively on a screen in the seat, smiling, waving, shouting!

If that day arrives, then I'm done. Not only the stadium would be really creepy for the players, just seeing digital avatars left and right... You said shouting? For that they would need to put an speaker in each seat and expect somebody willing to talk to an speaker.

The funny part is that you can experiment all of that (apart of the jack nicholson thing) just buying a normal ticket and just go there in person... and you can experiment it now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Imagine you could buy a ticket to an NBA game and “seat” in the very specific place that you bought the ticket. So you could watch the entire game, could even talk to someone from that perspective.

That's totally artificial scarcity for no reason at all.

A huge benefit of this type of tech would be to get away from an issue like this
(only one person can have a certain perspective in real life, thus the cost to experience it can be exorbitant)

 

[nexx27]

This is something I see mentioned often, and I do find it curious.

I love rugby. That's my game! Now… When our local team plays I go to the stadium, sit in the cold (it usually is) and rain (it usually does).
But, the match atmosphere is wonderful — especially in a smaller city such as Bath (winning is an all too infrequent bonus!). The noise, the smell of the mystery meat pies, the banter with your neighbours, yes even the huddling against the weather.

However, seeing it on TV sitting on my sofa, is far, far better and gives me a game over view second to none.
The cameras are everywhere, pitch side microphones etc.
Much better than a fixed point in the stands.

In the stands it is all about the atmosphere and the overall view not that great.

If the AVP could replicate that complete experience, then yes. Maybe.

🙂

Yeah...

I agree with you, I usually hesitate to go rock shows because is a hassle to wait for the singers, or watch bands that you don't like just to wait for hours for the last band to enter the stage... hungry, tired... Sometimes is so much comfortable to watch it from home..

When we play basketball, there's usually a lot of interaction between players, some dirty talking, face expressions, etc.. And in the TV screen you can't live that... I usually say that basketball is fine game to play but a terrible game to watch...

We hear Jordan and many players saying that Larry Bird was the king of dirty talking. Them none of us ever saw that, even with thousand cameras and mics pointed to the games, all you hear is the stupid narrator and a bunch of commentators...

Wouldn't it be cool if, say NBA 2024 game from EA let you select some "court cam" and it silence all the ******** TV broadcasting and you could hear the dirty talking, players bitching, with say, full MJ voice, or talking with the referee... that would be amazing.... would be really a different experience... that's a real "it's in the game", or close to it.

It's just stupid, in the game you control the player, but hear the narrator. So you are and are not in the game...

Technology could hopefully help giving us a sense of presence. Specially VR... but that vision seems far away from current VR offerings... When I say VR, AVR is included.

With apple in the game, there's a new wave of attention to VR, so there's hope apps will improve..With a bit of creativity, even with current VR tech, there are much to be done app-wise, and that can really transform the user experience. And begin to justify VR tech price. Especially the exorbitant price of AVP

 

[nexx27]

If that day arrives, then I'm done. Not only the stadium would be really creepy for the players, just seeing digital avatars left and right... You said shouting? For that they would need to put an speaker in each seat and expect somebody willing to talk to an speaker.

The funny part is that you can experiment all of that (apart of the jack nicholson thing) just buying a normal ticket and just go there in person... and you can experiment it now.

If you’re in US..

 

[SteveJobs2.0]

Power is the real issue - not screen tech

Not really since it would still be connected to a battery pack.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Not really since it would still be connected to a battery pack.

"Glasses" that still have to be connected to a battery pack will face mainstream adoption challenges.

 

[ErikGrim]

The mac virtual desktop, it is very limited (even ridiculous) as it is right now. Imagine there’s no virtual screen, and you could open mac apps and put it in your entire canvas, as an unlimited canvas with no “screen”… suppose it could increase usable space to more than say 4 or 5 displays virtually.. that could make a lot of sense for productivity… or even to power users..

There's already an app that lets you do that.

Ensemble

 

[duffman9000]

Question to people who did the in-store demos: did you get a chance to try the dual-strap, or is the solo strap the only thing they have for you to try?

I used the solo strap and I can confirm it’s terrible. Despite how bad it is I still enjoyed the demo. I did not get a chance to watch the movies I wanted to watch during the demo though. I need another demo.