i think there are many pro's and con's with this... the good things is that more people with macs can talk to more people, but i don't like the idea of making osx apps for xp. i think aim should be updated and should be able to do audio/ video confrencing like ichat, nothing more, nothing less.
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iChat AV at MacWorld San Francisco?
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there are no cons for apple moving the iChat software to windows. Nobody is going to switch to a Mac because they can use the video conferencing...you can do this on Windows already. On the other hand, everyone I know owns a Windows based PC...so unless they support Windows with iChat...i'll probably never use it. i know it's nice to say your special because you own a mac so ONLY YOU can use iChat, but it's not practical it'd be like having a phone that you can only use for local toll. Sure you can call within 15 miles of you, but the rest of the world is unavailable to you. Phone companies that only offer local service would flop.
Either somebody's just switching their buddy icon every few seconds in a loop, or iChat does support animated buddy icons. *shrugs*
nice idea, but I don't see it happening, unfortunately. Would absolutely love it if they did though.
nice idea, but I don't see it happening, unfortunately. Would absolutely love it if they did though.
A few discrepancies...
I can see a few confusing ideas that should be cleared up.
1.) iChat's AV capabilities have nothing to do with AOL's network. AOL wouldn't have to be involved in anyway for iChat users to use it's AV features.
2.) AOL's client for the mac has been utter crap. Apple did AOL a favor by creating their own chat client so AOL doesn't have to deal with such a small percentage of users. <opinion> To counter this argument, as to the number of features of the windows AIM software compared to iChat, it's been my experience that neither myself, nor any of my friends really used most of those features. Even something as simple as buddy groups often goes ignored by a good share of users. I believe it was Apple's intent to keep iChat simple and stable, leaving it to do what it was designed to do: Chat. </opinion>
3.) The mention of auto-configuration networking (Rendezvous) in reference to iChat and iTunes is an open standard based on IP protocols. Any OS capable of IP networking should be able to easily implement Rendezvous, although this really has nothing to do with the AOL chatting and AV capabilities of iChat.
4.) Firewire cameras do not require drivers for video transfer. This was originally the main purpose for Firewire, and the method for transferring video over Firewire is part of the Firewire standard. This allows for true plug and play. Makes you wonder if maybe Apple came up with it
5.) I personally don't think Apple would charge for iChat for Windows. The way the programming frameworks are for Mac OS X, it requires Apple to do a little extra work to get iChat AV to work on Jaguar as well as Panther, so I could see them charged for it to incent people to upgrade to Panther and to compensate for the few extra programming hours.
6.) Apple has made it very clear in the press, interviews, and even their corporate quarterly and annual reports that they are using iTunes, the music store, and even the iPod as layered "Trojan horse" marketing. Up until iTunes for Windows, Windows users couldn't get a taste of the Mac lifestyle unless they buy a Mac. Apple is providing a few small niceties to show Windows users how easy and powerful Apple software and hardware can be. Granted, typical estimates for these kinds of marketing tactics are only 1.5 - 2% of people switching, but with the success of the iTMS, Apple has proven they can take it further.
FYI: According to Apple's EDGAR reporting, they make the majority of their revenue from (in order of revenue) hardware, OS (server and client) licenses and professional applications like shake and final cut, accessory hardware like the iPod & iSight, and last and certainly least: .mac and the iTMS
<2 cents> It's my opinion that Apple should port iChat and market iSight for Windows. It wouldn't hurt Mac users in any way, it would add to the user base, and it may even get a few people to switch. </2 cents>
My kudos to centauratlas and jettredmont !!
I can see a few confusing ideas that should be cleared up.
1.) iChat's AV capabilities have nothing to do with AOL's network. AOL wouldn't have to be involved in anyway for iChat users to use it's AV features.
2.) AOL's client for the mac has been utter crap. Apple did AOL a favor by creating their own chat client so AOL doesn't have to deal with such a small percentage of users. <opinion> To counter this argument, as to the number of features of the windows AIM software compared to iChat, it's been my experience that neither myself, nor any of my friends really used most of those features. Even something as simple as buddy groups often goes ignored by a good share of users. I believe it was Apple's intent to keep iChat simple and stable, leaving it to do what it was designed to do: Chat. </opinion>
3.) The mention of auto-configuration networking (Rendezvous) in reference to iChat and iTunes is an open standard based on IP protocols. Any OS capable of IP networking should be able to easily implement Rendezvous, although this really has nothing to do with the AOL chatting and AV capabilities of iChat.
4.) Firewire cameras do not require drivers for video transfer. This was originally the main purpose for Firewire, and the method for transferring video over Firewire is part of the Firewire standard. This allows for true plug and play. Makes you wonder if maybe Apple came up with it
5.) I personally don't think Apple would charge for iChat for Windows. The way the programming frameworks are for Mac OS X, it requires Apple to do a little extra work to get iChat AV to work on Jaguar as well as Panther, so I could see them charged for it to incent people to upgrade to Panther and to compensate for the few extra programming hours.
6.) Apple has made it very clear in the press, interviews, and even their corporate quarterly and annual reports that they are using iTunes, the music store, and even the iPod as layered "Trojan horse" marketing. Up until iTunes for Windows, Windows users couldn't get a taste of the Mac lifestyle unless they buy a Mac. Apple is providing a few small niceties to show Windows users how easy and powerful Apple software and hardware can be. Granted, typical estimates for these kinds of marketing tactics are only 1.5 - 2% of people switching, but with the success of the iTMS, Apple has proven they can take it further.
FYI: According to Apple's EDGAR reporting, they make the majority of their revenue from (in order of revenue) hardware, OS (server and client) licenses and professional applications like shake and final cut, accessory hardware like the iPod & iSight, and last and certainly least: .mac and the iTMS
<2 cents> It's my opinion that Apple should port iChat and market iSight for Windows. It wouldn't hurt Mac users in any way, it would add to the user base, and it may even get a few people to switch. </2 cents>
My kudos to centauratlas and jettredmont !!
I personally have been waiting for Apple to expand their iChat AV capabilities to work with Windows users because me and my girlfriend, who lives 4 hours away, use iVisit right now for videoconferencing between my iMac and her PC and their video codecs suck! The video is so grainy and they JUST recently got their softare ported to OS X after about 3 years. I was excited when i heard about iChat AV because of its high video and audio quality but it's true that it's basically worthless unless you know someone else who has iChat AV on another mac. So, I think iChat AV would be much more useful if it had a Windows version to compliment the Mac version and me and my girlfriend could chat with crystal clear audio and video! And as for Apple porting their software to Windows, I think it's a smart move just as long as they don't port over their more vital software such as OS X itself or their pro video editing applications. I think porting iTunes to Windows just to attract more iTunes music store customers was brilliant and hopefully Apple will storm the market with that eventually and make a good deal of money from it. If the same can happen with iChat AV, I say go for it!
Exactly. Would be even better if they added Yahoo IM support as well, with full audio and video capabilities. Make things easier for them as well, as Yahoo would no longer need a Mac version (which sucks BTW).
Screw MSN.
Yeah do it.
At this time iChat AV is at absolutely no value for me, since all pepole I want to audio/video-chat with are Win-Users.
I will move to US next year, while my PC-using girlfriend still stays in Germany for awhile. A crossplatform-iChat AV would be perfect for us. Remember iChat has real good quality. A big german computer magazine (c't) just tested several video chat programs: Mainly Win-apps, some crossplatform and iChat. iChat won!
Apple simply should bundle iChat AV with the next iSight camera. And I think this will happen in the nex revision.
BTW I don't want f**** AOL-software on my computer.
At this time iChat AV is at absolutely no value for me, since all pepole I want to audio/video-chat with are Win-Users.
I will move to US next year, while my PC-using girlfriend still stays in Germany for awhile. A crossplatform-iChat AV would be perfect for us. Remember iChat has real good quality. A big german computer magazine (c't) just tested several video chat programs: Mainly Win-apps, some crossplatform and iChat. iChat won!
Apple simply should bundle iChat AV with the next iSight camera. And I think this will happen in the nex revision.
BTW I don't want f**** AOL-software on my computer.
Very Easy to Port
I think Apple could port iChat to Windows VERY easily. QuickTime is already there, and that is most of the code for iChat. And now that iTunes is done, they have already gotten the OS X widgets and interface working on Windows. They have even ported Rendevouz as part of iTunes. It seems that all of the essential pieces are there. They should port it and sell tons of iSights.
I think Apple could port iChat to Windows VERY easily. QuickTime is already there, and that is most of the code for iChat. And now that iTunes is done, they have already gotten the OS X widgets and interface working on Windows. They have even ported Rendevouz as part of iTunes. It seems that all of the essential pieces are there. They should port it and sell tons of iSights.
It would be great to have crossplatform videochat that is easy to configure. That's something we've been waiting for a long time. Submit your feedback to Apple's iChat site:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ichat.html
What's more, it needs the ability to videochat multiple people at once.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ichat.html
What's more, it needs the ability to videochat multiple people at once.
If they do come out with iChat AV for Windows, I do hope that they'll give out regular iChat for free and iChat AV for a price (or for free when buying iSight.)
Good Idea
I think this is a good idea but it should be the last piece of software for a while that is ported. It also should be free. They also need to improve iCHat before it's release or millions of people will laugh at apple's crappy software. iChat Blows compared to AIM or others. The little bubbles and icons are cute but come on no moving buddy icons no multiple voice chat (3 way/more way chats) are a big downfall. Also the buddylist size of names and organization could be improved. the overall look needs help too. and the auto respond away message is also a problem
I think this is a good idea but it should be the last piece of software for a while that is ported. It also should be free. They also need to improve iCHat before it's release or millions of people will laugh at apple's crappy software. iChat Blows compared to AIM or others. The little bubbles and icons are cute but come on no moving buddy icons no multiple voice chat (3 way/more way chats) are a big downfall. Also the buddylist size of names and organization could be improved. the overall look needs help too. and the auto respond away message is also a problem
...why would they make it free if you have to pay for ichat on the mac?... mayb apple will make something that lets you use your origional aim app, but you install like a plugin thing that lets you use audio and video chat......
Re: A few discrepancies...
Apple invented FireWire.
Guys, it's not hard. It's called include a CD with iChat AV for Windows in every iSight box, label it "For Mac and Windows", and sell it.
Originally posted by timothyjoelwrig
4.) Firewire cameras do not require drivers for video transfer. This was originally the main purpose for Firewire, and the method for transferring video over Firewire is part of the Firewire standard. This allows for true plug and play. Makes you wonder if maybe Apple came up with it
Apple invented FireWire.
Guys, it's not hard. It's called include a CD with iChat AV for Windows in every iSight box, label it "For Mac and Windows", and sell it.
It's all about the hardware
iTMS was a vehicle for selling iPods, which have a much higher margin than the songs being sold.
iChatAV for windows would generate revenue, not necessarily by selling iSights to PC users, but by getting more iChatAV users out there. It's like the walky-talky cell phones, it's not really useful unless most of your friends have one. If a mac user can get all their PC friends to use iChatAV so that they can talk to them, then they will be more likely to want to use the video capabilities, and so demand for iSights will increase.
Add to that another good example of Apple design in the hands of PC users, and if only a few of them switch...
I don't know what the balance is between the development costs and the potential revenue, and I doubt anyone in this forum knows enough to debate that point, but I can see the strategy in this.
Apple has realized that in these economic down times, they cannot depend on computer sales to increase their exposure, so they are taking a cheaper route to introduce people to Apple and generate revenue.
Besides, some of us PC users happen to really like Apple stuff, we just can't afford to get a mac at the moment.
PS. Don't be surprised that if Apple turns their full attention to iChatAV that a lot more features are included. Apple has always been good about keeping their key programs growing.
iTMS was a vehicle for selling iPods, which have a much higher margin than the songs being sold.
iChatAV for windows would generate revenue, not necessarily by selling iSights to PC users, but by getting more iChatAV users out there. It's like the walky-talky cell phones, it's not really useful unless most of your friends have one. If a mac user can get all their PC friends to use iChatAV so that they can talk to them, then they will be more likely to want to use the video capabilities, and so demand for iSights will increase.
Add to that another good example of Apple design in the hands of PC users, and if only a few of them switch...
I don't know what the balance is between the development costs and the potential revenue, and I doubt anyone in this forum knows enough to debate that point, but I can see the strategy in this.
Apple has realized that in these economic down times, they cannot depend on computer sales to increase their exposure, so they are taking a cheaper route to introduce people to Apple and generate revenue.
Besides, some of us PC users happen to really like Apple stuff, we just can't afford to get a mac at the moment.
PS. Don't be surprised that if Apple turns their full attention to iChatAV that a lot more features are included. Apple has always been good about keeping their key programs growing.
Re: Re: A few discrepancies...
That's what my sarcasm was meant to imply, sorry if it was confusing.
That's what my sarcasm was meant to imply, sorry if it was confusing.
Nahhh
I don't think they will do that, however I believe AOL with incorporate Video Conferencing into their Windows AIM client. This would allow Mac iChat A/V users to communicate with AOL users. I also think that AOL will kill AIM for Mac and begin to support Apple's iChat. iChat 2 will come with all the features of AOL's AIM for Windows. Its also not far fetched, that AOL for Windows will support the iSight camera. Apple would sell more
I don't think they will do that, however I believe AOL with incorporate Video Conferencing into their Windows AIM client. This would allow Mac iChat A/V users to communicate with AOL users. I also think that AOL will kill AIM for Mac and begin to support Apple's iChat. iChat 2 will come with all the features of AOL's AIM for Windows. Its also not far fetched, that AOL for Windows will support the iSight camera. Apple would sell more
Hello All
I do not mind which way they do, I would like to Apple and AOL get there chats working with Video and Audio Chat.
As a big marketing push Apple could sell iSight bundled with a AOL Chat Program, thus serving two worlds.
1. Getting more iSights on desks
2. Giving AOL more exposure
I do not mind which way they do, I would like to Apple and AOL get there chats working with Video and Audio Chat.
As a big marketing push Apple could sell iSight bundled with a AOL Chat Program, thus serving two worlds.
1. Getting more iSights on desks
2. Giving AOL more exposure
Doesn't make sense...
... it doesn't make sense that Apple would port ichat, and here's why:
The revenue stream from the recent port of iTunes does not come from the app itself - that's free. Instead, it comes from the PeeCee users that have iTunes that can shop at the iTMS/Apple store for their iPod.
Conversely, if they release iChat for Windows, they've lost out on that recurring revenue stream twofold: Firstly, that very few people, especially the demographic they'll be hitting on the PeeCee side will pay for this application. Secondly, once the small percentage of people have bought it, they're done. Beyond the initial surge of the novelty buyers, revenue will slow to a trickly very quickly. Oh! And thirdly, Apple may have single handedly NOT sold a Mac because "All the apps I like and use regularly are on my PeeCee now".
As well, breaking into the Mac chat market was easy: None of the chat clients (at the time) were up-to-date with their quite impressive PeeCee counterparts. However, the soul reason MSN has such a strangle hold on the Wintel world is that it's BUNDLED with every version of XP, and people can (whether they had this in mind or not) receive messages as soon as they're connected to the internet - thus introducing them to the Wonderful World of Chat.
So is this a likely rumor? IMNSHO - I sure hope not.
[edited for grammar]
... it doesn't make sense that Apple would port ichat, and here's why:
The revenue stream from the recent port of iTunes does not come from the app itself - that's free. Instead, it comes from the PeeCee users that have iTunes that can shop at the iTMS/Apple store for their iPod.
Conversely, if they release iChat for Windows, they've lost out on that recurring revenue stream twofold: Firstly, that very few people, especially the demographic they'll be hitting on the PeeCee side will pay for this application. Secondly, once the small percentage of people have bought it, they're done. Beyond the initial surge of the novelty buyers, revenue will slow to a trickly very quickly. Oh! And thirdly, Apple may have single handedly NOT sold a Mac because "All the apps I like and use regularly are on my PeeCee now".
As well, breaking into the Mac chat market was easy: None of the chat clients (at the time) were up-to-date with their quite impressive PeeCee counterparts. However, the soul reason MSN has such a strangle hold on the Wintel world is that it's BUNDLED with every version of XP, and people can (whether they had this in mind or not) receive messages as soon as they're connected to the internet - thus introducing them to the Wonderful World of Chat.
So is this a likely rumor? IMNSHO - I sure hope not.
[edited for grammar]
I agree. I don't use iChat AV for the simple reason I've got no one to chat with. Most of my friends and relatives own PCs. Those that own macs own OLDER macs that can't use iChat AV. If iChat AV is welcomed and well recieved by the Windoze community then I might buy an iSight.
On the other hand Apple needs to take care what they port over to Windoze.
Are you talking about how you have no one to VIDEO chat with? Because if that's the case, then your post has relevance. Because if you meant just regular chat, then obviously your PeeCee friends and family has misled you - AOL IM (indeed available for the PeeCee) is able to communicate with iChat just fine...
iSight cost way too much compares with cheap webcam with msn 6 that they all have. all people i know with webcam have paid something like $30 and they are all very happy with it.
so if they don't want a mac because they cost twice the price of a pc, why would they pay $149 for something they can have for $30 and is compatible with their msn6?
i only wich we can also have msn6, i want to videochat too!
so if they don't want a mac because they cost twice the price of a pc, why would they pay $149 for something they can have for $30 and is compatible with their msn6?
i only wich we can also have msn6, i want to videochat too!
Why do you wish to have MSN6? So Microsoft can charge you for 7, 8 and 9?
Why do you speak highly of a $30 webcam that takes grainy, small, crapulent pictures? Why lower your expectations (I assume you use a Mac) just so you can "be included"?
That's not very Quebequoise of you.
Originally posted by Codemonkey
Why do you wish to have MSN6? So Microsoft can charge you for 7, 8 and 9?
Why do you speak highly of a $30 webcam that takes grainy, small, crapulent pictures? Why lower your expectations (I assume you use a Mac) just so you can "be included"?
That's not very Quebequoise of you.
i have iChat, but i only have one friend on it. on msn, i have around 25 friends and family. about half of them have webcams. so i want to join the fun too, not ''be included'', and i just can't do it with iChat. And for $30, a difference of 200$ CDN with iSight, i really don't care if OTHERS are seing my face small and grainly.
So, yes i want msn6 with videochat for mac. even if they charge for next version, first, it's still cheaper than iChat with iSight, and second: apple already did this with my iTools email les calisses!
iChat AV for Windows makes sense. It's a communications tool and you need to be able to communicate, right? otherwise Microsoft will simply release one for Windows and drown the Mac out. iChat AV for AOL makes even more sense, especially since AOL is not allowed to release their own AV software due to regulatory restrictions.
