Ideas for realistic improvements for next Vision Pro hardware?

[subjonas]

I thought it would be interesting to hear people’s thoughts about what realistic improvements can be made to VP’s gen 2 hardware (we all want it to become AR glasses but that’s not happening for awhile).

I think it goes without saying we all would like it lighter, so I don’t think it needs to be mentioned unless you have a specific way to make it lighter/more comfortable.

Note this isn’t a thread about making a cheaper “Air” version of the VP, but just on how to improve the flagship product.

—-
I’m not a VP owner myself so I don’t have much to say, but one thing is I’ve noticed owners say that other people at first contact seem to assume the VP owner cannot see them while wearing the VP. And I think it might be largely due to the design of the VP—it looks like a VR headset and those look like high tech sleep masks. Perhaps if VPs get more commonplace, people will just know that VPs have pass through on by default (and it would help if Apple can get Eyesight to work better). But I thought regardless, why not change the design of the VP to look more like actual goggle eyewear—ie. a circle/oval for each eye—to visually imply that the wearer can see through them, even though it’s still using pass through? It might complicate Eyesight implementation but I think it should still be doable.

Also I don’t know how feasible this is, but I think it would be convenient if one could flip or slide up the whole front of the headset to expose one’s eyes. This would let people give their eyes a quick breather, quick look at their phone or something, better eye contact for a quick interaction with someone, without having to take off the headset and put it back on and reposition things.

What are your thoughts?

 

[KPOM]

We may see somewhat higher resolution screens and better battery life. Perhaps the upgraded GPU in the M3 and beyond will lead to better pass through rendering.

 

[subjonas]

We may see somewhat higher resolution screens and better battery life. Perhaps the upgraded GPU in the M3 and beyond will lead to better pass through rendering.

Resolution not good enough?
Better battery life would be great of course, maybe through a combination of more efficient displays (higher res would take a hit on battery though), chips, and software. Also I’m thinking someone will start making battery cases for the external battery.
Yeah from what I hear pass through could use improvement. Might need camera upgrades too for that.

 

[subjonas]

I guess not a lot ideas on hardware changes?

I think it would be useful if Apple did two things regarding the battery pack:

1) Add MagSafe (the iPhone version) to the battery pack so that if you’re moving back and forth from say your desk, you could just lay it on the desk to charge and pick it up when you leave and not have to worry about plugging/unplugging. Also you could use a MagSafe battery with the battery pack when moving around.

2) Make a separate USBC cable accessory with some kind of breakaway MagSafe built in somewhere between the two ends of the cable. This is for the situation where someone might forget they’re plugged in for power and walk away. But I don’t think you’d want MagSafe on the connector attached to the battery because it’d be too easy for it to disconnect since it’s not usually staying completely still. So the MagSafe connection would probably be on or near the end of the connector plugged into the power source.

 

[CrysisDeu]

There are a few hardware improvement that I would like to see:

- built-in adjustable prescription lens - needing a separate lens have a few issues: shipping time, cannot share with people needing other lenses, reducing FOV. There are solutions out there that integrates a built in prescription lens.
- lens that can change focal length - without a variable focal length, I am worried about AVP to damage my eyes' capability to focus properly after long time usage.
- higher res and wider FOV - it's reasonable to hope for an M4 variant to support a 6k micro oled with wider FOV, the FOV on the current model is pretty bad. I doubt they can actually squeeze in a micro led, it might be heavier and hotter than the oled?
- MUCH better camera for pass through - the current one is pretty pathetic for actual usage
- hardware to track position and hands in the dark - the current AVP is unusable in darkness
- under 400g weight - it's an achievable goal: use Composite material, run the M4 a bit cooler and make the heatsink a bit smaller, use a smaller and denser logic board, remove the need for dual layer cover glass, or even better: replace it with plastic when the current cover glass is laminated and is not scratch resistant.
- a better speaker

 

[CrysisDeu]

+ I would really like a see a thread on realistic hardware for an Apple Glass as well

 

[Night Spring]

Apple needs to make this:

Solotop for Apple Vision Pro Modern Solo Knit Top-strap Adapters print & Ship - Etsy

This Gadgets item by PrototyperNick has 308 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Los Angeles, CA. Listed on Apr 27, 2024

www.etsy.com

 

[RobinNL]

I'm wondering if they added a low resolution passthrough camera on purpose because combined with a relatively large camera sensor it would decrease noise.

My takes:
- Increase FOV
- Better passthrough
- Integrate battery into the headset as counterweight and reduce the front heavy design
- M4 with WIFI 7
- Improved outward display
- Controllers for latency free precision tracking

Most gains are probably software. It's not really Apple but I would love to see the headset dive into gaming and immersion more, without sacrificing their "mixed reality" approach.

 

[fatTribble]

If it were me, I’d just remove the Eyesight feature and its associated cost and weight. Even if it worked brilliantly, I just don’t see the value of it. That’s just my opinion and nothing intended negatively. I deleted my Eyesight. My better half said it never came on anyway.

 

[fatTribble]

Apple needs to make this:

Solotop for Apple Vision Pro Modern Solo Knit Top-strap Adapters print & Ship - Etsy

This Gadgets item by PrototyperNick has 308 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Los Angeles, CA. Listed on Apr 27, 2024

www.etsy.com

I totally agree. I love the quality and feel of the solo band, but the dual strap better supports the weight.

 

[RichHI]

I thought it would be interesting to hear people’s thoughts about what realistic improvements can be made to VP’s gen 2 hardware (we all want it to become AR glasses but that’s not happening for awhile).

I think it goes without saying we all would like it lighter, so I don’t think it needs to be mentioned unless you have a specific way to make it lighter/more comfortable.

Note this isn’t a thread about making a cheaper “Air” version of the VP, but just on how to improve the flagship product.

—-
I’m not a VP owner myself so I don’t have much to say, but one thing is I’ve noticed owners say that other people at first contact seem to assume the VP owner cannot see them while wearing the VP. And I think it might be largely due to the design of the VP—it looks like a VR headset and those look like high tech sleep masks. Perhaps if VPs get more commonplace, people will just know that VPs have pass through on by default (and it would help if Apple can get Eyesight to work better). But I thought regardless, why not change the design of the VP to look more like actual goggle eyewear—ie. a circle/oval for each eye—to visually imply that the wearer can see through them, even though it’s still using pass through? It might complicate Eyesight implementation but I think it should still be doable.

Also I don’t know how feasible this is, but I think it would be convenient if one could flip or slide up the whole front of the headset to expose one’s eyes. This would let people give their eyes a quick breather, quick look at their phone or something, better eye contact for a quick interaction with someone, without having to take off the headset and put it back on and reposition things.

What are your thoughts?

My interest is watching movies on long plane rides. I still have a pair of Sony Glasstron which I used to use with SD sources. The three key issues were: comfort - after an hour or so I found I had to keep readjusting the headset to get comfortable, Weight - Which you have mentioned. This is a big problem if you are hoping to use them for 2 hours plus (Transatlantic or Transpacific flights), Nausea - this is a combination of the image which requires proper ophthalmic prescription lens option as the standard +/- diopter thumbwheel gets progressively less effective the longer you use it and also the detachment of what you see and what your balance system tells you. This requires the nice big virtual screen but with a small amount of reality that reflects head turns etc. I have yet to drop into my local store to check them out but two things I have read need fixing. The travel mode cannot be activated once a plane is in motion and secondly that the device reacts to eye movement. If you are watching a 21x9 Movie and look at different parts of the screen you do not want the screen to keep moving. So these would be my wishes and I think if Release 2 has these I will buy a pair. Looking for OLED iPad Pro next month.

I am thinking of posting on here that the Vision needs a floating island or notch on April 1st, as I am sick of Youtube vloggers saying how great they are.

 

[gerald.d]

There are a few hardware improvement that I would like to see:

- built-in adjustable prescription lens - needing a separate lens have a few issues: shipping time, cannot share with people needing other lenses, reducing FOV. There are solutions out there that integrates a built in prescription lens.
- lens that can change focal length - without a variable focal length, I am worried about AVP to damage my eyes' capability to focus properly after long time usage.

The first will always be a compromise (as it is on the Viture glasses, which I also own, and so can speak from extensive experience) because it will only ever adjust for myopia, and not astigmatism.

There are two aspects to astigmatism- the strength (I.e., if you think of how it is always described in relation to a football, how squashed the “ball” is, and on which axis it is squashed). You’re not going to realistically be able to accommodate catering for the myriad of different astigmatisms in a lightweight headset.

I only have a relatively mild astigmatism (-1.25/80 in one eye, and -1.5/84 in the other), and there is a notable difference in the clarity of the (superb) screens in the Viture glasses when using my prescription inserts compared to simply adjusting the diopter built into the glasses.

The second point, I don’t know what you’re expecting here. The optics are set up so that the screens are projected to be at a distance where your eyes are relaxed when looking at them. Could you explain further what benefit you think you would achieve if you got what you were asking for here?

 

[Night Spring]

If you are watching a 21x9 Movie and look at different parts of the screen you do not want the screen to keep moving.

The app windows in VP don't move unless you intentionally move them. People have opened windows in one room and walked away and when they come back the window is where they left it.

 

[Carac]

Comfort and weight. If you don't address the major issue keeping people from wearing it more than 30 minutes then anything else you focus on improving is in vain.

 

[jigzaw]

If it were me, I’d just remove the Eyesight feature and its associated cost and weight. Even if it worked brilliantly, I just don’t see the value of it. That’s just my opinion and nothing intended negatively. I deleted my Eyesight. My better half said it never came on anyway.

Yeah I agree with this. I totally understand it's cool to have a way to signal to people around you that you can or can't see them, but literally a little external LED light that's green during passthrough and red during immersive would do the trick without the uncanny awfulness of the eyes.

 

[jigzaw]

Really for me the things I would like to see addressed may just not be realistic in the near-term, but even incremental improvements would be welcome and might be enough for me to jump back in on Gen 2.

I'd really like to see that glare dealt with. I found Cinema Mode to be pretty much unpleasant to use because of it, and that was one of the prime features I was looking forward to. It's the ultimate reason I returned it. Is this just something that VR/AR will always have to deal with? I feel like some brilliant optics engineers should be able to crack this. Maybe a special coating on the lenses?

I'd like a wider, or if at all possible, a natural fov. I'm no engineer but it seems to me that there must be a way to incorporate peripheral vision in the simulation. Am I just wrong on this? Maybe it's just the nature of lenses and this is just as good as it gets for decades?

Weight/bulk, yes certainly. I know Apple has their design imperatives but I feel like there must be materials that can still feel premium without engulfing it in a heavy metal and glass case.

The battery is a brick, and being tethered to a cable opens the possibility of getting snagged on something and possibly having an accident. It wasn't a dealbreaker for me, but it definitely felt 1st gen and reminded me of when my dad got one of the early VHS camcorders and had to carry around the part that actually held the tape separate from the camera like a mini briefcase, lol.

For those calling for an eventual glasses form factor, wouldn't that make the immersive experiences impossible? I don't see how they could have a Cinema Mode or those amazing Apple+ 180 Immersive videos work on glasses. But maybe some people would JUST want the augmented reality and forego the immersive stuff. I know I'd find the multiple screen experience much better for work with glasses so I'm not looking at constant pass-through and wearing my eyes out with these bright screens for hours on end. Maybe there will be hardware options for both uses. Glasses for productivity/extra screens, goggles for immersive content consumption.

 

[profets]

A lot of good posts and thoughts so far.

For sure will be nice to see the displays get even higher resolution, and higher frame rate (I'm sure it'll all come with time).

For me the biggest thing would be trying to reduce the weight and working on an improved battery / power solution. I like @subjonas idea about MagSafe somewhere in the line from power connector to battery. I've had the odd mishap where I've stood up from a sitting position not realizing the battery had slipped out of my pocket while sitting.

I'd also really like to see some sort of built in battery just to prevent the device from having power cut so easily. One of my favourite things about iOS devices is how they're always on and updated. I find it painful when I go to use my Vision Pro and after boot up it needs a bit to sync mail, messages, photos, etc. Of course I could leave the battery connected and plugged in but then I also feel like I shouldn't have the protective cover on it so there's ample airflow for the device. I dunno, something about that aspect of it feels odd. And I know there's no simple or easy solution to it.

Also - the EyeSight display - not that I care too much about it myself, but I'm surprised how dim and low resolution it is. Feel like a decently bright and high resolution display shouldn't be much of an issue, but maybe the lenticular glass / effect makes that challenging. Anyway, improvement there would be nice. Always makes me laugh when my kids are like "I can see your eyes" and then they try throwing something at me.

 

[CrysisDeu]

The first will always be a compromise (as it is on the Viture glasses, which I also own, and so can speak from extensive experience) because it will only ever adjust for myopia, and not astigmatism.

There are two aspects to astigmatism- the strength (I.e., if you think of how it is always described in relation to a football, how squashed the “ball” is, and on which axis it is squashed). You’re not going to realistically be able to accommodate catering for the myriad of different astigmatisms in a lightweight headset.

I only have a relatively mild astigmatism (-1.25/80 in one eye, and -1.5/84 in the other), and there is a notable difference in the clarity of the (superb) screens in the Viture glasses when using my prescription inserts compared to simply adjusting the diopter built into the glasses.

The second point, I don’t know what you’re expecting here. The optics are set up so that the screens are projected to be at a distance where your eyes are relaxed when looking at them. Could you explain further what benefit you think you would achieve if you got what you were asking for here?

Objects in vision OS has depth to it, but the screen is always at ~10 feet away, so your eyes only focuses to that 10 feet distance.

You are basically teaching your eyes to forget the need to refocus when looking at objects in different distances

 

[AdonisSMU]

Comfort and weight. If you don't address the major issue keeping people from wearing it more than 30 minutes then anything else you focus on improving is in vain.

Agreed with this. I also think the FOV and battery life/design would also be worth spending some time on. I’m shocked Apple hasn’t allowed 3rd parties to create some compatible bands for the AVP.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

In terms of design, it would be neat to see what it would look like with the front glass (minus the lens area obviously) replaced with polished stainless steel!

 

[fatTribble]

Just my opinion, I think if there were any drastic improvements Apple could have made to Vision Pro they would have already done it.

I’m glad the battery is external. It keeps the weight off your head. It’s replaceable by the user rather than requiring the unit to be shipped to Apple. I don’t see a next gen battery so tiny they put it on the unit itself. I think being able to plug in your own battery into the USB-C is a good solution rather than adding another battery on board just to hot swap.

I’m surprised they didn’t offer a 2 TB option given the premium nature of the product, but I’ll be the first to admit I’m in the minority for wanting that.

The glare sounds tough to solve given everything I’ve read. I’m not optimistic this is going to be fixed easily. I typically avoid the Cinema environment and use something brighter.

So in short, for the next iteration I wouldn’t be surprised just to see some spec upgrade.

 

[surferfb]

So in short, for the next iteration I wouldn’t be surprised just to see some spec upgrade.

Agree 100%. I expect spec bump update(s) - e.g. chip changes to M4/M5, but no major design updates for at least 3 years.

 

[jclardy]

To be honest, the main thing I want is better handling, the current AVP just feels fragile all around. The only places you are "supposed" to pick it up by are right next to the cameras, so very easy to accidentally smudge. You need to make sure the lenses are facing away from windows when you put it down. You have to make sure the battery cord/power cable aren't going to get snagged when getting up from your desk. The face shield will just fall off when you grab it. Carrying it by the strap seems like an option, but the connections on the speaker arms are so tiny, it feels dangerous.

I'd love if the next version had a collapsable face shield alongside foldable speaker arms, and just a better way to just carry it around your house without feeling like every step could cost $700 in repairs. If the arms could fold in, you could nearly get away with carrying it in a pocket. It would also serve as a cover for the lenses.

That, reducing glare and increasing FOV by a few degrees. But mostly the portability aspect.

 

[david.olstein]

It'll never happen . . . but I'd like to see an HDMI input. I want to be able to connect my AVP to the HDMI output on my UHD Blu-Ray player.

 

[Night Spring]

It'll never happen . . . but I'd like to see an HDMI input. I want to be able to connect my AVP to the HDMI output on my UHD Blu-Ray player.

I would rather hope for a dongle to attach to the Bluray player that sends the video stream to VP over WiFi. Attaching another cable to the VP doesn't feel like a good idea.