If Apple notebooks were built like Thinkpads, I would own one

[psycho bob]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm.....


Read CounterFit's posts... thats why I was saying all those things. He claimed the Aluminum casing is very strong and "stiff."

I did read his post. The aluminium casing is very strong and stiff because of the structure it is used in. Aluminium is much stiffer then the majority of plastics, it is malleable as opposed to snapping.

You don't need to drop and damage a battery to show metals will bend A tin can or baking tray would be much cheaper. If you seriously drop any laptop the cosmetics will probably be the last thing on your mind. Hard drives, Superdrives, LCD's and chipsets all damage easily from shock.

 

[Chrispy]

You know.. all this talk about small computers got me thinking. TIME TO BUST OUT GOOD OL INSPIRON!!! Here is a classic powerhouse "portable" computer from about 4 or 5 years ago. I have compared it to a 12" powerbook (sadly suffering from a dead hard drive) and a 13" macbook. Enjoy the sexy pics haha!

 

[DevilsRejection]

that powerbook would be perfect if it had an intel chip inside

 

[bousozoku]

If a thicker design led to a better, more durable machine that dispersed heat better, I'd be all for it, unless it led to extra weight, too.

I think the majority of Windows 15.4 inch display machines are both thick and heavy. The WallStreet and Lombard and Pismo PowerBooks were the same way.

My 15.2 inch display PowerBook is rated at 5.6 pounds. That's plenty, regardless of how thick it is.

 

[milozauckerman]

Ya know, technically, it's not even a problem - it's just the sound of the fan spinning up or down. It is totally subjective if you think that it is a problem.

Yes, it's a problem.

I know what normal fan noise sounds like, be it Dell, Toshiba or Apple (little experience with fans outside of those makers), this ain't it (and the .mp3 provided earlier is fairly representative). As I said earlier, it's the sound of a motor rapidly engaging and disengaging at a higher RPM than it should hit. One possibility for the cause is that the fan is being overpowered, to an RPM above its design and shutting down because of that. Then the computer still needs cooling, so it starts the fan again.

A fan does not normally go from zero to max RPMs immediately and then cut off, then start up again and then cut off. As others have stated, noise issues aside, that's not how fans work. Look at your ceiling fan, if you have one. Does it move air by rapidly spinning up and down, or is it a constant RPM?

I don't consider it a problem, and I'll gladly take a super thin MacBook that *might* moo once in a while under heavy load, or makes a barely discernable whine.

And IF those were the issues, you might have a good argument. People are referring to near-constant moos. My week 22 or 23 MBP, once it developed the whine, was constant and aggravating. It was at a pitch that cut through normal air-conditioner background noise, and when I worked in a near-silent atmosphere started to give me a headache in minutes.

A light moo is way better than the horrendous sounds other PC laptops make. So stop saying its a flaw, that's just your opinion.

I'm typing this on a borrowed 17" Core Duo Toshiba. It's cool to the touch, makes no noise aside from occasional fan noise and exhibits no whine.

It is ugly and it runs Windows rather than OS X. But aside from those two issues, it is a computer superior to MBPs and MBs in every single way (I could do with a matte screen, but c'est la vis). Too bad Windows is a deal breaker for me. I can live with ugly.

EDIT: I've held my ear up to every single laptop in this house (two PowerBook G4s, one MacBook Pro, one PowerBook G3, one iBook G3, one PowerBook 1400, five PowerBook 500s, and three PowerBook Duos) - and they ALL make some sort of whine noise when they are powered on.

If you put your ear up to it, yes.

The MB/MBP whine is heard from a distance and is not normal. If you're unable to read, I'll explain it again: the whine did not exist for the first ten days of use. At all. Not a noise to be heard. Day 10, wake it up and get a headache.

 

[Gurutech]

Who says the Macbooks are perfect? No.
The fact that they used plastic palm rest that gets dirty too easily makes the desigh failure.
I don't expect my laptops to get dirty from proper usage.

 

[coffey7]

I love the look of the iBM thinkpads.But, I didn't like windows xp. I bought a non-noisy Macbook,which does get up to 64C. I would like to own both someday.I hope lenovo doesn't ruin the design. also, I would have to put debian on it.

 

[danny_w]

And for those who say Rev A Apple stuff is terrible, my Rev A intel Mac Mini is working flawlessly thank you very much

As did my Rev A G4 Mac Mini. It was my first Mac and what made me a switcher. I loved that mini!

 

[DevilsRejection]

my rev a intel imac works great as well

apple just has issues with portables i think

 

[stunna]

If you guys are complaing about a 5 pound laptop I think its time you get off the forums and hit the gym.


Anyways the track pad on the thinkpads are amazing I wish every laptop had them

 

[erikistired]

Before I get called a heretic, I became a switcher a month ago. I am the proud owner of a 20 inch iMac and I love it.

Safari is a pain in the ass sometimes, but this thread isn't about Safari.

Back on topic: my other computer is an IBM Thinkpad X40, my friend has a T60, and honestly I can't see myself getting a MacBook Pro or a regular MacBook after using what I think is the pinnacle of notebook design.

Yes they look sexy, and this one girl who sits 2 rows in front of me in microbiology has a MBP. I've talked with her over coffee about it and she hates the heat, she doesn't get the whine but she heard abut it.

Second, don't blame Intel and hot chips. Remember my friend's T60? It has a core duo hip inside and it's cool to the touch on the bottom, only having a slightly warm left palm rest. Not even close to the temperature of the MBP.

Don't even throw out the excuse of first generation product. My thinkpad x40 is first generation, my friends t60 is first generation. my mom's dell 9300 is first generation, and we don't have these issues. the one thing that annoys me to no end is any self respecting mac geek will tell you to avoid first generation notebooks from apple, yet he doesn't see anything wrong in that statement.

you're explicitly telling people not to buy a product just because it's the first iteration, which happens to be crap. how can you say that with a straight face and still claim you have a better product?

my rant is over, will it accomplish anything? not really

will apple portables get better? god i hope so because right now they are weak sauce.

i love os x, i love my imac, i dislike apple notebooks, and i love my ultra-portable thinkpad x40

make me fall in love with your notebooks dammit

i'm using a g4 powerbook still. maybe next year i'll take another look at a macbook pro, after all the bugs are worked out. however, the heat thing isn't just the chip. i doubt the t60 has an ati x1600 gpu to cool as well as the intel chips. also, you talk about first gen stuff, but this is first gen using a whole new cpu setup. it's not like they're going from p4 to core duo. it's a little different. also the case they use is like a giant metal heatsink. it looks nice, but it's going to draw out heat.

anyway, i agree with you somewhat, because i wouldn't touch a mbp (i just bought my powerbook a few months ago) right now. i also wanted something smaller, altho i've fallen in love with OS X and now i want something a little more powerful (i've all but stopped using my desktop pc).

 

[erikistired]

Seconded, at least they don't whine or moo. The overheating is ridiculous too.

Come on Apple! Stop being so anal about your stupid aesthetics, nobody is going to complain if your laptops vibrate a bit from time to time when a fan activates to vent all the heat inside, however most people I know do like their balls, and they won't be too happy when those gets toast

every laptop i've owned for the last 10 years got hot to some degree or another. the dell i6000 i had before my powerbook got just as hot. the thinkpad i had a few years ago got hot. my compaq m300 didn't get ~that~ hot, but it was still uncomfy after a few hours use. it's just part of owning a laptop. i don't know why people think laptops only started getting hot with the macbook/macbook pro. my 12" g4 powerbook gets uncomfortably hot when doing pretty much anything beyond surfing the web.

 

[milozauckerman]

i don't know why people think laptops only started getting hot with the macbook/macbook pro.

You don't seem to comprehend the problem here.

Yes, computers have always made noise and had fans and generated heat. News at 11.

People talking about 'whiny perfectionists' and questioning the MB/MBP flaws don't seem to grasp a basic concept here - these are flaws above and beyond the normal issues associated with computing. It's a high-pitched whine that drives anyone who can hear it to distraction. It's a moo that clearly denotes a malfunctioning or nonfunctioning fan. The MBP and MB generate far more heat than comparable machines (again, I'm on a borrowed 17" Toshiba Dual-Core with a 256GB graphics card and it is noticeably cooler than idling MacBooks and some MacBook Pros) or most anything before it, except for notebooks using desktop processors.

 

[wako]

I did read his post. The aluminium casing is very strong and stiff because of the structure it is used in. Aluminium is much stiffer then the majority of plastics, it is malleable as opposed to snapping.

You don't need to drop and damage a battery to show metals will bend A tin can or baking tray would be much cheaper. If you seriously drop any laptop the cosmetics will probably be the last thing on your mind. Hard drives, Superdrives, LCD's and chipsets all damage easily from shock.

yeah... true... plastic will snap and metal will bend.

The problem is although the "majority" of plastics will snap, many laptop makers are starting to use carbon fiber plastics. Lenova, Sony, Asus, Sager, etc are starting to put them into carbon fiber.

Also aluminum isnt as strong as you make it to be. The metal can actually also snap. If you remember in the 90s where a plane's fuselage actually broke off because of how aluminum simply very soft and overtime will give in. In general Aluminum isnt a strong substance. Anodizing does not make it stronger, but only prevents corrosion.

 

[mortey]

Before I get called a heretic, I became a switcher a month ago. I am the proud owner of a 20 inch iMac and I love it.

Safari is a pain in the ass sometimes, but this thread isn't about Safari.

Back on topic: my other computer is an IBM Thinkpad X40, my friend has a T60, and honestly I can't see myself getting a MacBook Pro or a regular MacBook after using what I think is the pinnacle of notebook design.

Yes they look sexy, and this one girl who sits 2 rows in front of me in microbiology has a MBP. I've talked with her over coffee about it and she hates the heat, she doesn't get the whine but she heard abut it.

Second, don't blame Intel and hot chips. Remember my friend's T60? It has a core duo hip inside and it's cool to the touch on the bottom, only having a slightly warm left palm rest. Not even close to the temperature of the MBP.

Don't even throw out the excuse of first generation product. My thinkpad x40 is first generation, my friends t60 is first generation. my mom's dell 9300 is first generation, and we don't have these issues. the one thing that annoys me to no end is any self respecting mac geek will tell you to avoid first generation notebooks from apple, yet he doesn't see anything wrong in that statement.

you're explicitly telling people not to buy a product just because it's the first iteration, which happens to be crap. how can you say that with a straight face and still claim you have a better product?

my rant is over, will it accomplish anything? not really

will apple portables get better? god i hope so because right now they are weak sauce.

i love os x, i love my imac, i dislike apple notebooks, and i love my ultra-portable thinkpad x40

make me fall in love with your notebooks dammit

Well your mom got lucky on her dell 9300. Most of the people I know who got one, including myself, was quite warm to the touch. To me, heat doesn't matter. My Dell 9300 was so hot it literally left my legs warm for hours. Nice and cozy

 

[stunna]

yeah... true... plastic will snap and metal will bend.

The problem is although the "majority" of plastics will snap, many laptop makers are starting to use carbon fiber plastics. Lenova, Sony, Asus, Sager, etc are starting to put them into carbon fiber.

Also aluminum isnt as strong as you make it to be. The metal can actually also snap. If you remember in the 90s where a plane's fuselage actually broke off because of how aluminum simply very soft and overtime will give in. In general Aluminum isnt a strong substance. Anodizing does not make it stronger, but only prevents corrosion.

so carbon fibre is the best material?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834115226
would that be a great laptop then?

 

[dpaanlka]

If you're unable to read, I'll explain it again: the whine did not exist for the first ten days of use. At all. Not a noise to be heard. Day 10, wake it up and get a headache.

Sigh... Every single thing you said is simply your opinion. For all the MacBook complainers I've heard, I've never seen or heard any of this rubbish in real life. The MacBook has been around since January, and I've seen plenty. The moos and whines aren't problems. It's all your opinion and the ridiculous high standards you seem to be holding Apple's laptops too. I've heard tons of people post and say its not a problem. Wait... theres one in my house! It makes a perfectly acceptable amount of noise! Are you unable to read? You don't "know" it's a problem, and all the amount of time you waste typing that in an online forum isn't going to prove anything until I hear a MacBook in person that is so loud I can't concentrate, and none of you whining complainers seem to be able to actually produce this for me, so I think you all need to calm down.

They're 10 times quieter than most PC laptops on the market.

I can't believe we're actually comparing the world's ugliest line of laptops to the world's most elegant. You're all probably the same people that buy Hondas instead of BMWs because of "how practical and reliable" they are.

 

[milozauckerman]

For all the MacBook complainers I've heard, I've never seen or heard any of this rubbish in real life.

Right, and I've never seen an exploding Ford Explorer. So that recall must not have happened right? It couldn't have been a problem.

The moos and whines aren't problems.

So what was the problem, then? If my MBP didn't whine for the first ten days, then it must have been broken then, right - because the high-pitched whine that appeared was normal, 'not a problem'?

Right?

It's all your opinion and the ridiculous high standards you seem to be holding Apple's laptops too. I've heard tons of people post and say its not a problem.

And you've read an equal number of people say it is a problem.

My MacBook Pro whined, but did not overheat or moo.
Person B's MacBook does not whine, but it runs hot and moos.
Person C's MacBook pro does not moo, but it whines and runs hot.
Etc. etc. etc.

There is variation in the issues effecting MacBooks and MacBook Pros. But they are, clearly, issues. If it was 'how they were designed' there would be uniformity of whine, moo and heat. There is not.

Thanks for playing.

 

[milozauckerman]

As to the last line - no, I genuinely do not care how purty my laptop or desktop is. And I would have to laugh at anyone for whom that is the first consideration.

 

[steelfist]

my brother has a thinkpad, and they do run cooler than most of the mac laptops i have used.

i mean, he can put it on his lap, and he can comfortably play games, while i need a book to put under it.

now, the issue i'm having is the 5 button design, and the pencil-eraser joystick that makes the computer very unusable for me.

apple should reconsider improving their cooling design in their laptops. the thermal grease, airflow, heatsinks, and etc.

not sure if it's me, but as the power/mac books get newer, it gets wider, even though it's still quite thin.

 

[wako]

so carbon fibre is the best material?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834115226
would that be a great laptop then?

just because the chasis is made out of carbon fiber doesnt make it a great computer. it does make it a great computer to take alot of abuse though

 

[mark!]

dang y'alls are still arguin about it?
I don't understand...
If you don't like the MBP, don't get it.
If you don't like the MB either, don't get it.
If you don't like the IBM stuff, don't get it.

 

[stunna]

dang y'alls are still arguin about it?
I don't understand...
If you don't like the MBP, don't get it.
If you don't like the MB either, don't get it.
If you don't like the IBM stuff, don't get it.

^^ this man speaks the truth.

 

[superted666]

Actually, all current computers with the Duo Core do whine. Where'd you hear they didn't?

wrong

my new m90 is quieter than my mini mac. No whines

 

[Passante]

Can I get anyone some cheese to go with all the whine in this thread