If Apple notebooks were built like Thinkpads, I would own one

[DevilsRejection]

dang y'alls are still arguin about it?
I don't understand...
If you don't like the MBP, don't get it.
If you don't like the MB either, don't get it.
If you don't like the IBM stuff, don't get it.

i'm saying i love the ibm stuff, and if the mac stuff was up to the same quality standards as the ibm stuff then i would get the mac stuff.

the only reason holding me back from getting a mac is because it would be a downgrade to the current laptop i have now, in terms of size, weight, battery life, and build quality

 

[erikistired]

You don't seem to comprehend the problem here.

Yes, computers have always made noise and had fans and generated heat. News at 11.

People talking about 'whiny perfectionists' and questioning the MB/MBP flaws don't seem to grasp a basic concept here - these are flaws above and beyond the normal issues associated with computing. It's a high-pitched whine that drives anyone who can hear it to distraction. It's a moo that clearly denotes a malfunctioning or nonfunctioning fan. The MBP and MB generate far more heat than comparable machines (again, I'm on a borrowed 17" Toshiba Dual-Core with a 256GB graphics card and it is noticeably cooler than idling MacBooks and some MacBook Pros) or most anything before it, except for notebooks using desktop processors.

where do you see me saying they don't whine? or moo?

i've owned quite a few laptops over the last 15 years or so, and all of them generated heat. quite a few of them generated heat to the point of being uncomfortable on my lap, just like my little powerbook. i don't have a mbp and the heat issue is one reason i've put off getting one. however, one of the OPs complaints was that they run hot. yeah? so does his precious thinkpad. i've owned at least 3 thinkpads over the years and all of them got hot to the point i couldn't set them on lap without something between the laptop and my skin. people tend to act like no other laptops get hot. that's my point, period. if you can't comprehend that, i really don't know what to tell you.

 

[drake]

I'm really enjoying this thread Perhaps it is separating the more business minded of us (sadly sometimes me) from the creative (what I wish I had more of) haha

More like people who are more style over substance.

 

[bbrosemer]

Yes I have always wanted werid colored keys and logos, that looks so much more professional then a black book.

 

[DevilsRejection]

Yes I have always wanted werid colored keys and logos, that looks so much more professional then a black book.

with a signature like that your opinion isn't worth a mountain of salt

 

[bbrosemer]

Come on give me the biggest inovation in the computer industry since the original Macintosh came out, there has been nothing since then other then upgrading parts that has been so amazing everyone has worked off of that basic standard, the next biggest innovation was the laptop, but who did that too.

 

[mheekowh]

I once owned an HP laptop, and several PCs.

I switched.

I am now the happy owner of a whine-free, moo-free, 15.4" MacBook Pro, which runs OS X (and can, if I'm stupid enough, run Windows). I'm happy with how well my new computer runs, how stable OS X is, and well, how nice it looks.

I did consider getting a Dell, a Vaio, or even a ThinkPad.

But those things ran Windows, were ugly (but hey, they're probably better suited for rugged lifestyles too), and were probably issue-prone out of the box.

I'm not worried about the dents and scratches much. I take care of my computer. I don't speculate about dropping it from six feet (heck, I don't even want to try dropping it), and make sure it's secure in a padded compartment in my bag whenever I'm on the go.

If you want an Apple, get one.

If you want to stick with Windows, get a PC. If you want the Windows option, Macs can do that too.

I chose my Mac because it made me happy. If you're happy with your computer, it doesn't matter it it's as ugly as a ThinkPad.

 

[Dunepilot]

Those of you doubting the sturdiness of Apple's laptop offerings should read the following:

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2001/02/21.1.shtml
http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/08/1715241
http://www.wap.org/journal/ibookiraq/default.html
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t59403.html

And, for the record, my girlfriend and my dad have both dropped aluminium powerbook G4s from about a height of 4 or 5 feet (out of a rucksack, and off a shelf). Both have suffered only minor dents.

I think the comparison of a Thinkpad to a Lombard/Pismo Powerbook is apposite. They're both sturdy machines. If I ever had to buy a non-Apple machine, I guess I might consider a Thinkpad. However, they don't run Mac OS X and they don't have features I now take for granted, like Firewire. Oh, and those red pointers are just about the most unhelpful mouse-like device I have ever used.

 

[yadmonkey]

dang y'alls are still arguin about it?
I don't understand...
If you don't like the MBP, don't get it.
If you don't like the MB either, don't get it.
If you don't like the IBM stuff, don't get it.

I hate this sort of simplistic thinking. For the most part, I didn't take this thread to be an argument. For me, it is a serious fan of the Mac OS expressing the fact that he's less than satisfied with the design of Apple's laptops. Is that not valid? What are forums for, if not to express opinions and share thoughts?

No Apple laptop has been built as tough as the Lom/Pis since the Lom/Pis and some of us are expressing that we value this aspect of laptop design. And it's certainly not as simple as "don't like it/don't get it". I've built both of my vocations around Apple products, so I'm happily stuck with their OS and thus, their laptops.

If you love Apple's products overall, does that mean they are beyond criticism? Does it mean there's no room for improvement?

 

[sparks9]

I own a ThinkPad from the X-series.
It definitely is a high quality laptop. It's very thin and small (12"), and very quiet (fans almost never go on).
At the moment Apple doesnt have a laptop which can compaire with this one.

I use my laptop for word, internet etc., I dont need a CoreDuo heat/noise monster, I want a quiet, lightweight computer... Anyone agree with me on this?

 

[Chrispy]

I own a ThinkPad from the X-series.
It definitely is a high quality laptop. It's very thin and small (12"), and very quiet (fans almost never go on).
At the moment Apple doesnt have a laptop which can compaire with this one.

I use my laptop for word, internet etc., I dont need a CoreDuo heat/noise monster, I want a quiet, lightweight computer... Anyone agree with me on this?

When Apple got rid of the 12" Powerbook they killed off business from users like you looking for a small and quiet system

 

[macidiot]

Seconded, at least they don't whine or moo. The overheating is ridiculous too.

Come on Apple! Stop being so anal about your stupid aesthetics, nobody is going to complain if your laptops vibrate a bit from time to time when a fan activates to vent all the heat inside, however most people I know do like their balls, and they won't be too happy when those gets toast

This is what happens when Apple uses a case design that was originally meant for a 1Ghz G4 chip. I know that a lot of it has been redesigned, but it is largely similar.

The same issue happened with my last computer, the mdd mac. They used a case designed for a 500mhz G3 and stuffed dual g4s in there. Then they slapped in big fans and cut holes in the front of the case. No surprise it ran loud and hot... Of course, Apple to this day denies that that computer was poorly engineered. Then again, immediately afterwards, Apple introduced the new towers, stressing how the new case design was extremely quiet and effective at cooling... funny that.

I suspect the next real rev of the macbook will sport a new case design. And Apple will tout how cool to the touch the case is...

 

[psycho bob]

Also aluminum isnt as strong as you make it to be. The metal can actually also snap. If you remember in the 90s where a plane's fuselage actually broke off because of how aluminum simply very soft and overtime will give in. In general Aluminum isnt a strong substance. Anodizing does not make it stronger, but only prevents corrosion.

Aluminium isn't super strong but lets not get out of perspective a planes airframe undergoes far more stress then any laptop ever will. A lot of stress fractures are born out of issues with the material at date of manufacture or general wear and tear through age.

When the planes in question have suffered these failures they are to parts that either under go huge forces from pressurisation or repetitive flexing. A lot of these planes are also 5+ years old. No laptop will suffer the same fate with most not even being used past 5 years.

 

[Sedulous]

I'm pretty sure all the computers using the Core Duo chips produce the same heat. However, the MBP is made of aluminum while most "PC" equivalents are made of plastic. Yet the MBP feels hotter. Anyone know why?

My bet is that aluminum conducts heat faster than plastic. In other words, the MBP and any other PC make the same heat, but the MBP dissipates faster. That is why hot metal feels hotter than hot plastic.

 

[FragTek]

Just gonna chime in quickly, I havent read through the entire thread but I wanted to comment on the initial heat complaint on the MBP.

When trying to make a comparison of heat between two computers u need to evaluate the designs closely... The MBP is ONE INCH thin and has a sexy aluminum case. I don't think your buddies T60 or whatever is aluminum and an inch thin. So I think that puts that to rest right there. It's a bit of a tradeoff/sacrifice. I see it as maximum portability powerhouse, and the heat isn't that outrageous unless u get one of the true scorcher MBP's which are definately out there. It can also be fixed by a quick re-application of the TIC which I can also understand if you don't want to crack open ur lappy etc.

But, comparing the MBP to whatever else is a bit crazy when talking about heat. We're talking about a razor thin lappy that rivals the most powerful brickish PC laptops on the market.

 

[balamw]

When trying to make a comparison of heat between two computers u need to evaluate the designs closely... The MBP is ONE INCH thin and has a sexy aluminum case.

FWIW the thinnest T60 is also 1 inch thin, though there are apparently thicker models that are closer to 1.4".

Can't vouch for Aluminum though...

Dimensions
14.1": 311 (316mm WWAN models) x 255 x 26.6-31mm /12.2" (12.4" WWAN models) x 10.0" x 1.0-1.2"
15": 329 (334mm WWAN models) x 268 x 31-36mm/13" (13.1" WWAN models) x 10.6" x 1.2-1.4"
Travel weight/with optical drive2
14.1": starting at 2.11kg/2.32kg (4.6 lb/5.1 lb)
15": starting at 2.40kg/2.64kg (5.3 lb/5.8 lb)

B

 

[milozauckerman]

Two laptops - 1" thick and 2" thick. Aluminum and plastic or carbon fiber or whatever. In what ways, exactly, is the 1" Aluminum laptop "more portable" than the 2" plastic?

Beautiful women wearing lingerie are sexy. The MacBook Pro is a not particularly elegant piece of design - it's a shiny metal thing. (Clearly this is an aesthetic argument, but I'm always surprised to see the PB/MBP IS SEXY line - I can respect and admire the G5's industrial aluminum design even if I don't want one taking up so much space anymore. The PB/MBP is just there. The black MacBook is a more pleasing design.)

Even if it were 'sexy' - I like tools that work more than tools that look wicked kewl.

 

[balamw]

In what ways, exactly, is the 1" Aluminum laptop "more portable" than the 2" plastic?

Perhaps I'm missing the obvious, but it'll fit in a thinner space in a case/backpack/etc...?

B

 

[zap2]

Beautiful women wearing lingerie are sexy. The MacBook Pro is a not particularly elegant piece of design - it's a shiny metal thing. (Clearly this is an aesthetic argument, but I'm always surprised to see the PB/MBP IS SEXY line - I can respect and admire the G5's industrial aluminum design even if I don't want one taking up so much space anymore. The PB/MBP is just there. The black MacBook is a more pleasing design.)

Sexy when talking about a Compute is a geek term, and only true geek use it in everyday talk

 

[Sedulous]

Has nobody read my post about why aluminum feels hotter than plastic?

 

[yadmonkey]

For some people, stable is sexy. Aluminum is aluminum. Reliable is sexy.

Oh, and Sedulous, I read your argument about alum vs. plastic. Makes sense to me.

 

[milozauckerman]

Perhaps I'm missing the obvious, but it'll fit in a thinner space in a case/backpack/etc...?

Short of backpacking across Nepal, when does that 1" of depth matter?

Every bag I've looked at or used with a notebook pocket is cloth (or some other soft, shape-changing material) and the pocket more than accomodates 2" rather than 1". And isn't designed to be bursting at the seams anyway. And even if it was bursting, that 1" probably has less to do with things than whatever other oddly sized objects you're stuffing in the bag.

 

[Counterfit]

Maybe you should read your link again, and then actually look up Anodized Aluminum. On wikipedia, when you actually look up ANODIZED ALUMINUM, it talks about saying it is used for "its aesthetic and corrosion protection properties."

From reading your link you must have gotten the impression it was strong because it said "its hardness makes it suitable for use as an abrasive and as a component in cutting tools." Ironically when i clicked on cutting tools and clicked several links of the different types, it said nothing of how it was used because of its strength. Instead it talks about how some of the drill bits and what not is used to cut through "softer alloys like aluminum."

If you account for its properties, you can indeed gain stiffness over steel with aluminum (in tubing, using a larger diameter with a thinner wall, just don't **** up). Also, I did account for its ease of machining.

If you truely believe in the stiffness of Aluminum SO MUCH. I challenge you to do something. Make a video of course. Drop your Aluminum battery on its side, so the excess Aluminum would hit the ground first. Drop it say ONE FOOT from the air onto concrete, and see how easily it would bend. In fact if you simply took out your battery and tried to bend it with your hand you could.

Well, I'm not about to drop a battery onto a hard surface intentionally, even if it was covered in Polybutadiene, but I did try to bend what little (1/4") of overhang there is on my Apple battery, with no success (almost no leverage to be had). Does anyone know how thick that aluminum piece on there is?

 

[generik]

I suspect the next real rev of the macbook will sport a new case design. And Apple will tout how cool to the touch the case is...

Strangely I also had this feeling that the current MBP case jobs are really just a rush interrim kind of thing, while the real deal will probably come next year during MWSF when the Santa Rosa platform launches.. probably together with Leopard.. and sporting Robson caching too!

A truly revolutionary release.

 

[dsnort]

I sold my thinkpad and bought my first mac (a macbook). I don't regret it, but I agree with the OP that the thinkpad is built like a tank. I seriously think that thing could have stopped a bullet. Plus, I love the red nubbin thing on the keyboard... not a big fan of trackpads in general.

Can it stop a virus?