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darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,127
9,780
Atlanta, GA
Update: I found a deal for the 5th gen Air for $672 so now I’m trying to decide between the 4th and 5th gen Air and the price difference is around 50 bucks.

An additional 50 for the M1 and the 2GBs of extra ram should be worth it right?
The M1 Air (8GB) has double the RAM of the A14 Air (4GB).

I would choose the M1 Air, or a discounted 2020 A12Z iPad Pro which will come with 128GB.
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
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Thanks! I’m a little surprised by that, standby time is good for me on iOS 12, I don’t notice much difference. Maybe there is and I don’t remember, which is possible. This happened three years ago and I don’t track standby time as closely as I track screen-on time, so I don’t trust my assessment there too much, it’s been too long for me to remember. I have screenshots but my standby time isn’t too high. Usage time is a lot better on iOS 9, like I said, though.

I’m pleasantly surprised by your battery life statement! iOS 13 obliterated the iPhone 6s’ battery life, so I expected it to be the same on the iPad. The performance part is a shame though. With that, it obliterated the final part that was left standing of what turned out to be the best classic design 9.7-inch iPad, ever. (The A9X beats the A10 Fusion in many categories, iirc; screen and features-wise it’s not a contest between the 9.7-inch iPad Pro and the last 9.7-inch iPad, the 6th gen, as the former wins easily).

I’m surprised about your iOS 10 statement, my iPhone 6s on iOS 10 matches my previous iPhone 6s on iOS 9, I thought iOS 11 had obliterated battery life on the iPad Pro 9.7, not iOS 10. (iOS 11 was a fiasco, at least on iPhones, both the 6s and the 7).

There aren’t many results online, but it appears that iPadOS 15 finished obliterating battery life on this model, unfortunately. I don’t have any performance results, it’s not discussed as much, as enthusiasts probably moved on. Some “I get 4-5 hours on iPad OS15”, though, which is absolutely abhorrent. I get that on an iPhone 5c on iOS 10.

I am really, really curious about iPadOS 16. It’s the oldest supported processor for the first time. Based on what we’ve said, I guess I would be able to confidently state that there isn’t much more margin for worsening performance and battery life. It’s poor enough at this point.
I can confirm that stand-by time on IOS 10 and 9 is outstanding. I have a mini 2 on 10 and an iPad 2 on 9 and they last for many days or even weeks if left unused.
With iPadOS it's between 5 and 10% of drain overnight.
Personally I moved my 9.7 pro and that of my mother to iPadOS 13.4. Performance is not very different from what I remember from IOS 12. But reloads did increase. I am sure it was somewhat faster with 12, but I'd take all the advantages of iPadOS (desktop browsing, dark mode, mouse support, resizeable keyboard, access to external drives etc.) any day over a bit of performance. I told my sister to keep her 6th gen to 13.4 too. And she did until she bought her M1 a couple of weeks ago, when she was obliged to update as at least iPadOS 14 was required to trasfer data to the new iPad. She told me performance is just as good or better on 15.7. I don't know if I can believe her.
What I know is that:
- my mini 4 was very usable until 12, and even with iPadOS 13 it was still ok, and definitely much faster than my mini 2 on 10, but 14 destroyed it and now it's almost as slow as my mini 2.
- both iPadOS 14 and 15 increased the reloads in my 3GB and 4GB RAM devices to the point where Safari reloads constantlyon 15 like it does on the 9.7 pro on iPadOS 13 but at least with A12(X) the device does not stutter at all (the 9.7 does). My 2015 12.9 was a better than the 9.7 but not as smooth as the 10.5, which in turn, while still very decent, is not as smooth as the A12X, which is perfectly smooth to this day on iPadOS 15, other than the fact that it reloads a lot.

I have moved my A12(X) devices to 15 because of things universal control and other advantages like NTFS support (which came already with 14.5 I think), and I'll probably upgrade to 16 to get stage manager.
But my mini 5 with A12 is staying on 15 (lots of reloads but very smooth), no advantages with 16.
My mini 4 is staying on 14 (bad enough already) and my mini 2 on 10 (great standby, can use legacy apps).
My 2015 was sold and my 9.7 pro was retired after developing screen issues (colors bars and black "stains")
My 10.5 is already on 16 beta... and the performance is as smooth as on 15.
My M1 will be updated anytime there is a feature I am interested it, it's so powerful that I have zero fear of slowing it down...
 
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1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,153
3,289
Bc Canada
Update: I found a deal for the 5th gen Air for $672 so now I’m trying to decide between the 4th and 5th gen Air and the price difference is around 50 bucks.

An additional 50 for the M1 and the 2GBs of extra ram should be worth it right?
It’s actually double the ram on the 5th gen air as it’s 8gb on the m1 model, so it’s definitely worth the extra $50 if you’re ok with the cost.

Just consider your budget and what you’re comfortable with spending. Always a big difference between what you want vs what you need. If you’re looking for future proofing, the M series chips and 8gb of ram definitely give them a more distinct advantage that way.
 

Mr. 123

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
385
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Thanks for all the help guys! I got the Air 5th gen with 64GB and I’m loving it so far! It’s so smooth and opening websites apps or files is instantaneous.

Coming from an iPad 6th gen, this is a huge leap forward in user experience. It’s also the first time I have a laminated screen without air gap. It’s nothing that bothered me much before but the screen is a lot nicer on the Air and the additional 1,2 inches and smaller bezels is very good. I don’t feel like I would want a 12,9 inch iPad and 11 inches is a sweetspot between mobility and big screen experience for working on documents etc. Stereo speakers is also a big upgrade and the sound is pretty good and the stereo separation makes it much fuller.

When the Air 4 was released I thought that I didn’t want it because it lacked faceID and while FaceID is a bit faster (I don’t have to move my hand), the touchID on the Air is great and super quick, much faster than the home button Touch ID devices that I’ve used on iPhones and iPads.

The 64GBs are not ideal but I think I’ll be able to make it work as I have 2TBs of iCloud storage and don’t store much locally on the iPad except some movies when I travel. With all the apps installed (including some unnecessary ones) and etc I have around 20GBs left which should be fine for work files and temporary downloads of shows and movies. I do think Apple should have made the Bassline configuration 128GBs though, like on the iPad Pro because 64 is really the minimum that is workable in 2022. I don’t have the budget for 256GB though so I think 64 will be fine.

I’m very happy with it so far and am glad that I got the 5th gen for 50 bucks more because I can’t see this thing slowing down for years with the M1 processor and the 8GBs of RAM! I will probably get the second gen pencil on Black Friday and the case I ordered has a built in pencil
holder/charger!
 

1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,153
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Bc Canada
Thanks for all the help guys! I got the Air 5th gen with 64GB and I’m loving it so far! It’s so smooth and opening websites apps or files is instantaneous.

Coming from an iPad 6th gen, this is a huge leap forward in user experience. It’s also the first time I have a laminated screen without air gap. It’s nothing that bothered me much before but the screen is a lot nicer on the Air and the additional 1,2 inches and smaller bezels is very good. I don’t feel like I would want a 12,9 inch iPad and 11 inches is a sweetspot between mobility and big screen experience for working on documents etc. Stereo speakers is also a big upgrade and the sound is pretty good and the stereo separation makes it much fuller.

When the Air 4 was released I thought that I didn’t want it because it lacked faceID and while FaceID is a bit faster (I don’t have to move my hand), the touchID on the Air is great and super quick, much faster than the home button Touch ID devices that I’ve used on iPhones and iPads.

The 64GBs are not ideal but I think I’ll be able to make it work as I have 2TBs of iCloud storage and don’t store much locally on the iPad except some movies when I travel. With all the apps installed (including some unnecessary ones) and etc I have around 20GBs left which should be fine for work files and temporary downloads of shows and movies. I do think Apple should have made the Bassline configuration 128GBs though, like on the iPad Pro because 64 is really the minimum that is workable in 2022. I don’t have the budget for 256GB though so I think 64 will be fine.

I’m very happy with it so far and am glad that I got the 5th gen for 50 bucks more because I can’t see this thing slowing down for years with the M1 processor and the 8GBs of RAM! I will probably get the second gen pencil on Black Friday and the case I ordered has a built in pencil
holder/charger!
Congrats! It’s definitely a big step up, similar upgrade to what I did last year. I went from the 6th gen to an 11” M1 Pro. I’m set for quite awhile now with this set up.

But I do agree, apple has to stop being so cheap on their base storage.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,624
2,017
I got the same battery life on iOS 9 and 10 but after a year of heavy use with occasional drops to 0% (marathon reading sessions), the poor iPad Pro 9.7's battery was quite abused.

I skipped iOS 11 and went from 10 -> 12 directly.

That said, I'd been experiencing lower onscreen time post-iPad 4. These were the onscreen times I was getting back when the devices were brand new.

16 hrs - iPad 4
12 hrs - iPad Air
10 hrs - iPad Pro 9.7

After a year's worth of abuse, I think I was getting just 8 hours on the Pro 9.7 even when kept on iOS 9. I think it was at 87% battery health already then (original capacity was more than 100%, iirc, like 107% or something).

I switch between multiple iPads now so battery wear is spread out plus we have more efficient chipsets (A12 onwards). I can easily get 10 hours onscreen time on newer iPads and they're still at 20-30% when I plug in to charge.
Yeah, I concur with the drop on battery life post iPad 4, I experienced the exact same thing. My Air 5 blows everything before it out of the water for light use though, I get like 25 hours, it is totally amazing. I also got 16 hours of light use on the iPad 4. The Air was the first really thin iPad and it showed, battery capacity and battery life plummeted. Like iPhones, there’s only so much efficiency can do.

The 6s is pretty mediocre, even on iOS 9 and 10, when compared to a plus model or the Xʀ onwards with far larger batteries (on original versions of iOS). I get 16 hours on my Xʀ, I never got more than 8 on my 6s, even when new (my current 6s is on iOS 10, has 63% health, and it still gets 7.5 hours of light use. Anything heavy and the battery health shows, dropping severely. Any camera use with high brightness and it drops quite fast, going for the respectable 7.5 hours to a far more mediocre, iOS 13-like 4 hours, maybe even 3.5). That said, I would struggle to get 4 hours with the lightest of uses on an iPhone 6s on iOS 13 (I tried it… after 1.5 hours of the notes app with every setting off, 0% brightness and Low Power Mode it had 65%. That high brightness camera use I described on my 63% health iOS 10 device that gets me 4 hours? I’d be lucky if I got one hour on iOS 13, and people say iOS 15 is a lot worse).

I’ve always stated that battery health is completely irrelevant if the device is on its original version of iOS and I stand by that statement, with my 6s showing that even after like 1400 cycles and a completely degraded battery it remains usable for a full day for everything except the heaviest of uses (i.e., the camera), as even mediocre-signal, full brightness LTE web browsing isn‘t heavy enough to completely destroy it. I tried it for a while from 100% to 60% and correctly extrapolated I would’ve gotten 5 hours. I don’t think I can get more than 2 with that use on iOS 15 with a new battery. While replacing the battery helps when compared to the same version with a degraded battery, if updated far enough it can never recover the original runtime, which is a shame.

I am totally surprised about your 9.7-inch iPad Pro numbers, I only saw a drop from about 14 hours when new to around 12.5-13 when it dropped to, like you, 85% health, three years later. It only plummeted when updated to iOS 12.

I don’t know if I mentioned this to you, but after testing it on iPhones and discovering that the impact of a severely degraded battery is not too heavy, I’ve always wanted to try it on iPads. How would a high cycle count battery perform on its original version of iOS? I’m talking, like the 6s I have, at least three times over spec, so, maybe 3000 cycles? Unfortunately, I haven‘t been able to keep a non-updated iPad for a fraction of that, with the only iPad I’ve had for a while only getting to about 500 cycles before being forced out of iOS 9. It saw about a 1 hour drop on 88% health IIRC, but it’s not enough data to conclude anything. As it is on iOS 12, that data is now irrelevant, even if I were to use it for a long time (it stands at 700 cycles and 85% health, but battery life has already been obliterated by iOS 12).
 

FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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I can confirm that stand-by time on IOS 10 and 9 is outstanding. I have a mini 2 on 10 and an iPad 2 on 9 and they last for many days or even weeks if left unused.
With iPadOS it's between 5 and 10% of drain overnight.
Personally I moved my 9.7 pro and that of my mother to iPadOS 13.4. Performance is not very different from what I remember from IOS 12. But reloads did increase. I am sure it was somewhat faster with 12, but I'd take all the advantages of iPadOS (desktop browsing, dark mode, mouse support, resizeable keyboard, access to external drives etc.) any day over a bit of performance. I told my sister to keep her 6th gen to 13.4 too. And she did until she bought her M1 a couple of weeks ago, when she was obliged to update as at least iPadOS 14 was required to trasfer data to the new iPad. She told me performance is just as good or better on 15.7. I don't know if I can believe her.
What I know is that:
- my mini 4 was very usable until 12, and even with iPadOS 13 it was still ok, and definitely much faster than my mini 2 on 10, but 14 destroyed it and now it's almost as slow as my mini 2.
- both iPadOS 14 and 15 increased the reloads in my 3GB and 4GB RAM devices to the point where Safari reloads constantlyon 15 like it does on the 9.7 pro on iPadOS 13 but at least with A12(X) the device does not stutter at all (the 9.7 does). My 2015 12.9 was a better than the 9.7 but not as smooth as the 10.5, which in turn, while still very decent, is not as smooth as the A12X, which is perfectly smooth to this day on iPadOS 15, other than the fact that it reloads a lot.

I have moved my A12(X) devices to 15 because of things universal control and other advantages like NTFS support (which came already with 14.5 I think), and I'll probably upgrade to 16 to get stage manager.
But my mini 5 with A12 is staying on 15 (lots of reloads but very smooth), no advantages with 16.
My mini 4 is staying on 14 (bad enough already) and my mini 2 on 10 (great standby, can use legacy apps).
My 2015 was sold and my 9.7 pro was retired after developing screen issues (colors bars and black "stains")
My 10.5 is already on 16 beta... and the performance is as smooth as on 15.
My M1 will be updated anytime there is a feature I am interested it, it's so powerful that I have zero fear of slowing it down...
I’d love a Mini 2 on iOS 10! I only have my iPhone 6s on iOS 10, I love that version.

I had read about every single part worsening on iPadOS 13, and your post, unfortunately, confirms it. (Regaridng standby drain).

I can believe your sister! While a family member has a 6th gen, it is flawlessly running iOS 12, so I cannot have input on that. I‘ve found that starting with 64-bit devices (barring RAM-starved ones like the Air 1), performance remains decent after updates, and battery life plummets. Like @rui no onna has said, it severely increases Safari reloads, but overall performance remains good.

How was battery life on iPadOS 13 on your 9.7-inch iPad Pro? Mine is bad on iOS 12, going from 13-14 hours on iOS 9 to about 8-11 hours on iOS 12.

Wow, so iPadOS 15 dropped performance on 4GB devices? How awful.

Right, the Mini 4 has an A8! I was under the incorrect assumption that it is newer, no wonder it killed it. How unfortunate!

A12 devices are smooth on iOS 15, battery life is the issue (many complaints regarding the iPhone Xʀ, I can’t offer an opinion because mine is on iOS 12).

I have an M1 iPad (Air 5), and it is staying on iPadOS 15 forever, performance and battery life are too flawless.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,412
4,185
I’d love a Mini 2 on iOS 10! I only have my iPhone 6s on iOS 10, I love that version.

I had read about every single part worsening on iPadOS 13, and your post, unfortunately, confirms it. (Regaridng standby drain).

I can believe your sister! While a family member has a 6th gen, it is flawlessly running iOS 12, so I cannot have input on that. I‘ve found that starting with 64-bit devices (barring RAM-starved ones like the Air 1), performance remains decent after updates, and battery life plummets. Like @rui no onna has said, it severely increases Safari reloads, but overall performance remains good.

How was battery life on iPadOS 13 on your 9.7-inch iPad Pro? Mine is bad on iOS 12, going from 13-14 hours on iOS 9 to about 8-11 hours on iOS 12.

Wow, so iPadOS 15 dropped performance on 4GB devices? How awful.

Right, the Mini 4 has an A8! I was under the incorrect assumption that it is newer, no wonder it killed it. How unfortunate!

A12 devices are smooth on iOS 15, battery life is the issue (many complaints regarding the iPhone Xʀ, I can’t offer an opinion because mine is on iOS 12).

I have an M1 iPad (Air 5), and it is staying on iPadOS 15 forever, performance and battery life are too flawless.
I think it's important to distinguish performance and reloads, you can have more reloads and performance being exactly the same. iPadOS barely affected the performance of any iPad pro other than the 9.7, where 2GB RAM is so little that the OS has to constantly compress and decompress stuff, making the system stutter. But this happens only with dual core devices and 2GB of RAM. Even the dual core 12.9in pro with 4GB RAM was much better.
And even something as "low" as A12 (which is technically quad core, but more similar to dual core with hyperthreading since 2 of the cores are efficiency cores) and 3GB of RAM is perfectly smooth with iPadOS 15, just as it was with IOS 12...
Will the RAM usage increase in future iPadOS versions get it to stutter as some point? I don't know, but I'll leave the mini 5 on 15 where it's perfectly smooth.
iPad pro 2nd gen has a 3-core processors (A10X, contrary to A12 the efficiency core cannot work at the same time as the power core, so it's really a 3-core CPU, not a 6 core one) and 4GB and it's stilly very fast on iPadOS 16 beta, to the point where I don't see the point in restoring 15 before iPadO16 is availabe. A10X has never been as buttery smooth as A12 or A12X, but it's much better than A9X has ever been on any OS version.

Concerning battery life, I think your assumptions that the more you upgrade the worse it gets are wrong, but you seem very convinced of it, so I won't be trying to convince you otherwise 😉

My experience is that, past IOS 10 and its great stand-by time, there is not much difference in battery life between 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16. Sometimes battery lifes slighty improves with updates, sometimes it gets slightly worse, but the difference is very minor to the point that I don't care. Instead I care about getting more functionality with updates, as long as performance is not impacted. With A12 and even more so with A12X there is zero impact on performance, they are buttery smooth and I don't expect that to change with iPadOS 16, at least for the 8-core A12X, which has plently of room. Things have radically change with iPads compared to the past. Today's chips have much more headroom to take updates with no impact on performance compared to the past.
Will reloads increase? Maybe, but it doesn't matter at this point. 4GB alrady reloads enough that it's not a device where I would leave a tab with a video open at some point and expect to continue to watch a couple of days later, as I could with M1. Or leave a form only partially filled. For anything else reloads don't matter and make no difference to me. Allow me a comparison, it's as if someone cheats on you, but not very often and someone else does more often... Does it matter? No, either you trust someone or you don't... I don't even trust M1...(we'll see if I change my mind with memory swap). I have actually almost stopped using iPads for youtube or anything where I could lose data, I use my 12in Macbooks (I have 2) for that, can leave as many video open as I want, they'll always be there where I left them... I harly ever turn them off. And they are so light it's just like holding a 12.9in iPad....
 
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FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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I think it's important to distinguish performance and reloads, you can have more reloads and performance being exactly the same. iPadOS barely affected the performance of any iPad pro other than the 9.7, where 2GB RAM is so little that the OS has to constantly compress and decompress stuff, making the system stutter. But this happens only with dual core devices and 2GB of RAM. Even the dual core 12.9in pro with 4GB RAM was much better.
And even something as "low" as A12 (which is technically quad core, but more similar to dual core with hyperthreading since 2 of the cores are efficiency cores) and 3GB of RAM is perfectly smooth with iPadOS 15, just as it was with IOS 12...
Will the RAM usage increase in future iPadOS versions get it to stutter as some point? I don't know, but I'll leave the mini 5 on 15 where it's perfectly smooth.
iPad pro 2nd gen has a 3-core processors (A10X, contrary to A12 the efficiency core cannot work at the same time as the power core, so it's really a 3-core CPU, not a 6 core one) and 4GB and it's stilly very fast on iPadOS 16 beta, to the point where I don't see the point in restoring 15 before iPadO16 is availabe. A10X has never been as buttery smooth as A12 or A12X, but it's much better than A9X has ever been on any OS version.

Concerning battery life, I think your assumptions that the more you upgrade the worse it gets are wrong, but you seem very convinced of it, so I won't be trying to convince you otherwise 😉

My experience is that, past IOS 10 and its great stand-by time, there is not much difference in battery life between 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16. Sometimes battery lifes slighty improves with updates, sometimes it gets slightly worse, but the difference is very minor to the point that I don't care. Instead I care about getting more functionality with updates, as long as performance is not impacted. With A12 and even more so with A12X there is zero impact on performance, they are buttery smooth and I don't expect that to change with iPadOS 16, at least for the 8-core A12X, which has plently of room. Things have radically change with iPads compared to the past. Today's chips have much more headroom to take updates with no impact on performance compared to the past.
Will reloads increase? Maybe, but it doesn't matter at this point. 4GB alrady reloads enough that it's not a device where I would leave a tab with a video open at some point and expect to continue to watch a couple of days later, as I could with M1. Or leave a form only partially filled. For anything else reloads don't matter and make no difference to me. Allow me a comparison, it's as if someone cheats on you, but not very often and someone else does more often... Does it matter? No, either you trust someone or you don't... I don't even trust M1...(we'll see if I change my mind with memory swap). I have actually almost stopped using iPads for youtube or anything where I could lose data, I use my 12in Macbooks (I have 2) for that, can leave as many video open as I want, they'll always be there where I left them... I harly ever turn them off. And they are so light it's just like holding a 12.9in iPad....
Yeah, agreed regarding the distinction. I don’t pay much attention to reloads, so while they might happen more frequently on iOS 12, I haven’t really noticed. I am not saying they aren’t there, though. It’s just that I don’t really know with certainty whether they are.


Regarding battery life, firstly I’d like to say that I don’t mean to discount your experience. Also, this conversation isn’t included on the following paragraph, because you haven’t said that.

That said, I’ve discussed this with many people who staunchly defend iOS updates, and the pattern is always the same. “You are fear-mongering, battery life is just fine on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iPadOS 15 (or my 10.5-inch, or my iPad 5, a similar-aged model). The fact that it has worsened for you is something I cannot explain, but mine is fine, and iOS updates - they state this far more forcefully and categorically than you have, almost dismissing my statements - do not, under any circumstances, decrease battery life”.
I’m like, “okay, fine, I believe you, even if I seriously think it does, and I will not dismiss what you’re saying. May you please share a screenshot of your battery life?”. They do and... 5 hours of screen-on time. 6 hours. With 88% of the usage being Safari and the rest being some light reading. Then I say “6 hours? You think that’s good? I got 14 back on iOS 9, I’m getting 10-11 on iOS 12. 6 is awful”. Inevitably, excuses ensue: “But it’s old, but battery health, but different usage”. I track battery life very closely. 13 hours aren’t 11 (with some luck, the vast majority of the cycles it’s below that).

You said that “the difference is very minor, to the point where I don’t care”, and depending on your definition of minor, I agree! I reckon some people would be very happy with 10 hours I am getting. Can you consider a 14 to 11-hour drop minor? Yes! It’s enough for a full day of light use, then it’s fine for some people, hell, maybe they wouldn’t even notice. And it’s fine! Just like I don’t notice any difference regarding reloads, but notice the difference. What did I say in my first paragraph? “I don’t track them closely, so they might be there and I’m not noticing”, and - I’m adding this now - the fact that I’ve read several people mention iPadOS 13 as the cutoff for a lot of reloads, whilst noting that it worsened even earlier leads me to believe that while I haven’t noticed them, they are there, and I just don’t pay enough attention.

Completely, absolutely agree on “today’s chips have improved enough so that performance differences aren’t noticeable”. The A6X on iOS 9/10 (three versions in) is horrible, whilst my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 (also three versions in) is nearly flawless. Not to mention the iPad Mini 1... the A5 on iOS 9 is unusable. This is not the case currently, and it will be better as chips get better. I’m inclined to believe that the M1’s performance on iPadOS 17 (three versions in) will be even more flawless than my A9X-powered 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 is. Battery life? Remains to be seen, though I am not confident, considering they shredded the iPhone Xʀ’s A12 Bionic by iOS 15. Like you said, performance is fine, totally smooth. Regarding reloads, I thought maybe 4GB might fix it, but they don’t, so I’m more of the “wait and see” opinion now. It’s difficult to predict.

A key difference in our view is “I’m willing to forgo battery life as long as performance isn’t impacted to get new features”. I’m filling to forgo any and every feature to preserve flawless battery life and performance, perhaps due to the fact that I don’t upgrade often - I only have two iPads, you have a lot more :)

In fact, on the supposedly top-notch M1, I don’t even trust iPadOS 16 (let alone 17 or 18), so I’m staying on my iPad Air 5’s original version (iPadOS 15).

As a final observation, I’d like to say that one of the most important aspects is that performance is a lot better than it used to be. That is something to commend.
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
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Yeah, agreed regarding the distinction. I don’t pay much attention to reloads, so while they might happen more frequently on iOS 12, I haven’t really noticed. I am not saying they aren’t there, though. It’s just that I don’t really know with certainty whether they are.


Regarding battery life, firstly I’d like to say that I don’t mean to discount your experience. Also, this conversation isn’t included on the following paragraph, because you haven’t said that.

That said, I’ve discussed this with many people who staunchly defend iOS updates, and the pattern is always the same. “You are fear-mongering, battery life is just fine on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iPadOS 15 (or my 10.5-inch, or my iPad 5, a similar-aged model). The fact that it has worsened for you is something I cannot explain, but mine is fine, and iOS updates - they state this far more forcefully and categorically than you have, almost dismissing my statements - do not, under any circumstances, decrease battery life”.
I’m like, “okay, fine, I believe you, even if I seriously think it does, and I will not dismiss what you’re saying. May you please share a screenshot of your battery life?”. They do and... 5 hours of screen-on time. 6 hours. With 88% of the usage being Safari and the rest being some light reading. Then I say “6 hours? You think that’s good? I got 14 back on iOS 9, I’m getting 10-11 on iOS 12. 6 is awful”. Inevitably, excuses ensue: “But it’s old, but battery health, but different usage”. I track battery life very closely. 13 hours aren’t 11 (with some luck, the vast majority of the cycles it’s below that).

You said that “the difference is very minor, to the point where I don’t care”, and depending on your definition of minor, I agree! I reckon some people would be very happy with 10 hours I am getting. Can you consider a 14 to 11-hour drop minor? Yes! It’s enough for a full day of light use, then it’s fine for some people, hell, maybe they wouldn’t even notice. And it’s fine! Just like I don’t notice any difference regarding reloads, but notice the difference. What did I say in my first paragraph? I don’t track them closely, so they might be there and I’m not noticing”, and - I’m adding this now - the fact that I’ve read several people mention iPadOS 13 as the cutoff for a lot of reloads, whilst noting that worsened even earlier leads me to believe that while I haven’t noticed them, they are there, and I just don’t pay enough attention.

Completely, absolutely agree on “today’s chips have improved enough so that performance differences aren’t noticeable”. The A6X on iOS 9/10 (three versions in) is horrible, whilst my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 (also three versions in) is nearly flawless. Not to mention the iPad Mini 1... the A5 on iOS 9 is unusable. This is not the case currently, and it will be better as chips get better. I’m inclined to believe that the M1’s performance on iPadOS 17 (three versions in) will be even more flawless than my A9X-powered 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 is. Battery life? Remains to be seen, though I am not confident, considering they shredded the iPhone Xʀ’s A12 Bionic by iOS 15. Like you said, performance is fine, totally smooth. Regarding reloads, I though maybe 4GB might fix it, but they don’t, so I’m more of the “wait and see” opinion now. It’s difficult to predict.

A key difference in our view is “I’m willing to forgo battery life as long as performance isn’t impacted to get new features”. I’m filling to forgo any and every feature to preserve flawless battery life and performance, perhaps due to the fact that I don’t upgrade often - I only have two iPads, you have a lot more :)

In fact, on the supposedly top-notch M1, I don’t even trust iPadOS 16 (let alone 17 or 18), so I’m staying on my iPad Air 5’s original version (iPadOS 15).

As a final observation, I’d like to say that one of the most important aspects is that performance is a lot better than it used to be. That is something to commend.
Very comprehensive and fair reply. I think the main difference in our view is due to the fact that I have many devices and also that I probably charge them in a different way (although I haven't seen radical changes in battery life of several hours difference).
I keep my devices between 50 and 90 via shortcuts aumation. Whenever they go below or above a notification tells me to charge or unplug. And since I have 6 iPad pros and 3 minis it's not like I cannot use another one while one is charging...
What I also do is keep track of cycles and battery health via iMazing. Every month or 2 I check the cycles and heath of all my iPads and write them in a chart. I find it fun and I am always looking forward to see how much health I have in each device. Since I adopted the 50-90 charge method battery health has become very stable to the point that I think I can do 1000 cycles and still have decent battery health. And I rarely do more than 20 cycles per month since I spread my use among so many devices....
So this is why I am not too worried about battery life.
As for performance, as I said I am very confident in 8 core chips and I expect A12X to remain just as smooth as on IOS 12 till the end of its update life, despite the increased reloads.
Having said that, I don't update for security patches. I don't care about them. iPads are extremely sandboxed. So if a new version of iPadOS gives me no functionaly worth the update, I won't update just for security.
 

FeliApple

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Very comprehensive and fair reply. I think the main difference in our view is due to the fact that I have many devices and also that I probably charge them in a different way (although I haven't seen radical changes in battery life of several hours difference).
I keep my devices between 50 and 90 via shortcuts aumation. Whenever they go below or above a notification tells me to charge or unplug. And since I have 6 iPad pros and 3 minis it's not like I cannot use another one while one is charging...
What I also do is keep track of cycles and battery health via iMazing. Every month or 2 I check the cycles and heath of all my iPads and write them in a chart. I find it fun and I am always looking forward to see how much health I have in each device. Since I adopted the 50-90 charge method battery health has become very stable to the point that I think I can do 1000 cycles and still have decent battery health. And I rarely do more than 20 cycles per month since I spread my use among so many devices....
So this is why I am not too worried about battery life.
As for performance, as I said I am very confident in 8 core chips and I expect A12X to remain just as smooth as on IOS 12 till the end of its update life, despite the increased reloads.
Having said that, I don't update for security patches. I don't care about them. iPads are extremely sandboxed. So if a new version of iPadOS gives me no functionaly worth the update, I won't update just for security.
Yeah, with so many iPads and a 50-90% charging pattern, it would be unnoticeable for me as well, not to mention the 9 iPads, too. I don’t have as many devices as you, but I like to track those statistics as well! The record on iPhones is about 1500, on iPads it is almost 0, none of the devices I have access to satisfy my testing criteria (original version or +1). (With a sizeable number of cycles, that is). What I can say, however, is that battery life remains the same it used to be back in August 2019, after Apple forced my 9.7-inch iPad Pro from iOS 9.3.4 to iOS 12.4.1.

Agreed, I am confident about performance too, and I also agree that the cutoff for that confidence is the A12.

I also concur regarding security updates, theoretical threats aren’t enough to offset the guaranteed obliteration of devices’ quality that inevitably ensues after enough updates. (As least as of now. Like we said, A12 and better - or M1, remains to be seen in both cases - might alter that statement; hopefully they do!).
 
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Digitalguy

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Yeah, with so many iPads and a 50-90% charging pattern, it would be unnoticeable for me as well, not to mention the 9 iPads, too. I don’t have as many devices as you, but I like to track those statistics as well! The record on iPhones is about 1500, on iPads it is almost 0, none of the devices I have access to satisfy my testing criteria (original version or +1). (With a sizeable number of cycles, that is). What I can say, however, is that battery life remains the same it used to be back in August 2019, after Apple forced my 9.7-inch iPad Pro from iOS 9.3.4 to iOS 12.4.1.

Agreed, I am confident about performance too, and I also agree that the cutoff for that confidence is the A12.

I also concur regarding security updates, theoretical threats aren’t enough to offset the guaranteed obliteration of devices’ quality that inevitably ensues after enough updates. (As least as of now. Like we said, A12 and better - or M1, remains to be seen in both cases - might alter that statement; hopefully they do!).
I would not rule out that given the 3GB RAM, after enough updates (in 3-4 years) A12 and A13 become the next iPad pro 9.7 and start to stutter when multitasking because 3GB can barely hold the OS and one app in RAM. That's why I think my mini 5 will stay on 15.7 for the rest of its (hopefully still very long) life.
Another advantage of caring about the battery is that you don't need to have Apple replace it, and I don't say that because of the $100 saving, but because they give you a new refurbished iPad on the latest OS (which you might not want...)
But since A12X I think that all the pros, and now even all the air, will easily stay buttery smooth till the end of their (long) update cycles for those who update till the end....
 

FeliApple

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I would not rule out that given the 3GB RAM, after enough updates (in 3-4 years) A12 and A13 become the next iPad pro 9.7 and start to stutter when multitasking because 3GB can barely hold the OS and one app in RAM. That's why I think my mini 5 will stay on 15.7 for the rest of its (hopefully still very long) life.
Another advantage of caring about the battery is that you don't need to have Apple replace it, and I don't say that because of the $100 saving, but because they give you a new refurbished iPad on the latest OS (which you might not want...)
But since A12X I think that all the pros, and now even all the air, will easily stay buttery smooth till the end of their (long) update cycles for those who update till the end....
Agreed, I am confident about the A12 being good, but considering iOS updates’ history, can we frankly really rule out anything? I do think we can’t. Great - and in my opinion, correct - decision on your Mini 5.

Agreed on the battery too, caring for it is always a net positive, but I’ve found that if kept on an original (or fairly early) version, battery health is largely irrelevant. Like I’ve said somewhere, my 6s on iOS 10 has 63% health on its original, 6-year-old battery, and it runs flawlessly. Likewise, my 9.7-inch iPad Pro has seen no runtime drops since the Apple-engineered, forced update to iOS 12 (back in 2019!). Whether that stays like that remains to be seen, but I’m pretty confident on that any further drops on health won’t have much of any impact, if any. I don’t even know what the cutoff for that even is, maybe 10 years isn’t enough. I know 6, 7 and 8 years isn’t old enough for batteries to be obliterated on original and early versions of iOS. Regardless of iOS 12’s significantly increased power drop (which caused the 13-14 to barely 10-hour drop), I’m confident on this iPad’s ability to at least retain a half-decent, mediocre battery life (10-11 hours with light use) on iOS 12 for a very, very long time. Hopefully that’s the case.

Regarding battery replacements, it is simply not an option. A new battery and iPadOS 16 will give me half the battery life I’m getting now, let’s say it gets to 6 hours, what about when it inevitably loses health again? 4 hours? 3? It’s never an option. It is better to buy a new iPad, unfortunately.

I have read many complaints about abhorrent battery life on iPadOS 15 on the 9.7-inch iPad Pro, with several people buying new base model iPads after theirs was obliterated into uselessness.

Ignoring the fact that it is the iPad I have, it’s annoying because it is the best 9.7-inch iPad to ever exist, arguably, it is the best iteration of the first iPad to ever exist.
 

Mr. 123

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Update: I never really understood what the big deal was about laminate displays and I was fine with the six generation display but after having use the air for two days I have to say that the laminator display is on a different level. The air gap is now a bit more noticeable when going back to the sixth of gen iPad.
 

FeliApple

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Update: I never really understood what the big deal was about laminate displays and I was fine with the six generation display but after having use the air for two days I have to say that the laminator display is on a different level. The air gap is now a bit more noticeable when going back to the sixth of gen iPad.
The laminated display is so much better than the non-laminated! Both in colour reproduction and even how a tap feels, it has a different, hollow sound. I tested an iPad 6 (like yours) next to a same size laminated display (a 9.7-inch iPad Pro), and the difference is really noticeable.
 
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Digitalguy

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Agreed, I am confident about the A12 being good, but considering iOS updates’ history, can we frankly really rule out anything? I do think we can’t. Great - and in my opinion, correct - decision on your Mini 5.

Agreed on the battery too, caring for it is always a net positive, but I’ve found that if kept on an original (or fairly early) version, battery health is largely irrelevant. Like I’ve said somewhere, my 6s on iOS 10 has 63% health on its original, 6-year-old battery, and it runs flawlessly. Likewise, my 9.7-inch iPad Pro has seen no runtime drops since the Apple-engineered, forced update to iOS 12 (back in 2019!). Whether that stays like that remains to be seen, but I’m pretty confident on that any further drops on health won’t have much of any impact, if any. I don’t even know what the cutoff for that even is, maybe 10 years isn’t enough. I know 6, 7 and 8 years isn’t old enough for batteries to be obliterated on original and early versions of iOS. Regardless of iOS 12’s significantly increased power drop (which caused the 13-14 to barely 10-hour drop), I’m confident on this iPad’s ability to at least retain a half-decent, mediocre battery life (10-11 hours with light use) on iOS 12 for a very, very long time. Hopefully that’s the case.

Regarding battery replacements, it is simply not an option. A new battery and iPadOS 16 will give me half the battery life I’m getting now, let’s say it gets to 6 hours, what about when it inevitably loses health again? 4 hours? 3? It’s never an option. It is better to buy a new iPad, unfortunately.

I have read many complaints about abhorrent battery life on iPadOS 15 on the 9.7-inch iPad Pro, with several people buying new base model iPads after theirs was obliterated into uselessness.

Ignoring the fact that it is the iPad I have, it’s annoying because it is the best 9.7-inch iPad to ever exist, arguably, it is the best iteration of the first iPad to ever exist.
You couldn't replace the battery on the 9.7 pro anyway since it's now a vintage device and it's not serviced by Apple anymore.
Another issue that I see in the long run is apps stop working.. This is particularly problematic with IOS (compared to Android), where for instance youtube does not work anymore on IOS 10 or lower and other apps have also stopped working. But of course it depends on what each persons uses.
Anyway, I do agree with you, it's the best 9.7 iPad ever made, it's also one of the most hated because of the 2GB of RAM. I loved mine (it's now retired because this summer it started having screen issues) and if this thing had 4GB RAM like its bigger brother (which I bought in 2015), it would have been perfect and would have made the 10.5 almost irrelevant.
Another device I really love it's the 2018 pro, this device was such a jump forward from previous gens (in price too..) and it, again, was only hampered by the lack of RAM and if had been given 8GB RAM back in 2018 this thing would have made even the M1 almost irrelevant (they actually made a version with 6GB and I bought it for the 11in).
I am mainly a 12.9in person, although I have every size, and crazy enough I still use the 4GB RAM 2018 12.9 even more than my 12.9 M1! Why? Because it's lighter and nicer to hold and the only real avantage of the M1 is the RAM (sure the screen is nicer, but for me that's not a big deal, the 2018 screen is plenty good). Where RAM does not matter, like reading, writing with the pencil, remote desktop etc. this iPad is as good or better than the M1 (recently I even started using one as wireless external monitor for the other thanks to universal control...)
 
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FeliApple

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You couldn't replace the battery on the 9.7 pro anyway since it's now a vintage device and it's not serviced by Apple anymore.
Another issue that I see in the long run is apps stop working.. This is particularly problematic with IOS (compared to Android), where for instance youtube does not work anymore on IOS 10 or lower and other apps have also stopped working. But of course it depends on what each persons uses.
Anyway, I do agree with you, it's the best 9.7 iPad ever made, it's also one of the most hated because of the 2GB of RAM. I loved mine (it's now retired because this summer it started having screen issues) and if this thing had 4GB RAM like its bigger brother (which I bought in 2015), it would have been perfect and would have made the 10.5 almost irrelevant.
Another device I really love it's the 2018 pro, this device was such a jump forward from previous gens (in price too..) and it, again, was only hampered by the lack of RAM and if had been given 8GB RAM back in 2018 this thing would have made even the M1 almost irrelevant (they actually made a version with 6GB and I bought it for the 11in).
I am mainly a 12.9in person, although I have every size, and crazy enough I still use the 4GB RAM 2018 12.9 even more than my 12.9 M1! Why? Because it's lighter and nicer to hold and the only real avantage of the M1 is the RAM (sure the screen is nicer, but for me that's not a big deal, the 2018 screen is plenty good). Where RAM does not matter, like reading, writing with the pencil, remote desktop etc. this iPad is as good or better than the M1 (recently I even started using one as wireless external monitor for the other thanks to universal control...)
It’s true, it‘s vintage already! Wow, time flies! Yeah, replacing a battery on an iPad will probably never be possible for me, because I will have upgraded by the time it is necessary, and even if I hadn’t upgraded by then, I will probably be on an earlier iOS version (even if it‘s not the first one due to external circumstances, like in this case).

Agree on the RAM! Apple has always skimped on RAM, but outfitting a “Pro” device with 2GB of RAM by 2016 was unacceptable, even for Apple. 2GB of RAM was fine at the time, but Pro iPads have had outstanding longevity (like you said, the iPad Pro 12.9-inch 1st gen runs just fine), and the only iPad Pro to ever be short-handed in that regard was the 9.7-inch. Imagine how amazing would that iPad be if it had 4GB of RAM considering what we know now! It would be a perfect send-off for the original 9.7-inch design language. The only Pro iPad of that size, 4GB of RAM, quad speakers, Pencil support, True Tone, P3 display, it would be just perfect.

Regarding app support, I have long stated that it is the #1 hurdle to jump through when deciding not to update iOS. It is increasingly difficult to offset as time passes by, and by the time it is too annoying, it’s too late: updating by then would demolish the device into oblivion. We are talking currently... what? 5, 6 major versions at once? It’s far too damaging, the only alternative is to buy new. That said, barring minimal issues in the middle of that journey, you get flawless performance and battery life throughout, and it remains perfectly usable afterwards, albeit with reduced capabilities. The alternative, obviously, is to update always and maintain total compatibility, but by the time you reach the 6-year mark the device is a shadow of what it once was in terms of performance and battery life. A conscious choice you have to make, with positives and drawbacks, unfortunately. For me, the choice is clear-cut: performance and battery life eclipse everything, and I am willing to cope with any and every drawback: app support, features... and that’s practically it.

I also agree on the 2018 Pro! I got an iPad Air 5 two months ago and I thought “this is the iPad design I’ve wanted ever since the 2018 iPad Pro was released”. Agree on the RAM, partly. While it could’ve had more, Apple had only fully integrated the Pro line to 4GB RAM one year prior, and it was too soon (considering Apple’s RAM practices) for them to upgrade RAM again. Considering Apple released a 3GB iPad last year, 4GB in 2018 isn’t too bad, IMO, certainly not like putting 2GB on a Pro device (the only iPad Pro with less than 4GB of RAM). That said, the practice of coupling RAM to storage is abhorrent. The entire lineup should have the same amount of RAM (6GB, clearly, and 16GB today).

I have never had a 12.9-inch iPad. Hopefully I will get one eventually. Hell, I wouldn’t be opposed to just getting a 1st or 2nd Gen 12.9-inch iPad Pro, just for the screen. Agree, for some non-RAM-intensive tasks, the 2018 iPad Pro is beautiful. It is still widely recommended, and all owners are happy, almost regardless of how they use it (I’ve read that a LOT here on MacRumors).

Cool setup using one as external monitor, love it!
 
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Mr. 123

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The laminated display is so much better than the non-laminated! Both in colour reproduction and even how a tap feels, it has a different, hollow sound. I tested an iPad 6 (like yours) next to a same size laminated display (a 9.7-inch iPad Pro), and the difference is really noticeable.
Yeah I never realized how much air there was between the screen and the glass on the 6th gen lol. The Air's screen is truly nice!

As iPadOS16 is released tomorrow, I was wondering if anyone has run the betas and knows if it runs smoothly or if it is better to wait a few months (like I always do with macOS). The Air is so fast right now so don't really feel like taking any risks with updates, though stage manager and the weather app would be nice to have lol
 
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