iPad Pro iPad Pro Blooming discussion [merged]

[grmlin]

Oh. So the only "fix" in sight is a switch to OLED?

I prefer retina over mini-LED and I'm frankly glad I went for the smaller size because that seems... annoying.

The most promising replacement is Micro LED I think. It's basically like an oled where every pixel/color is a separate LED. Didn't announce Samsung some extremely expensive TVs using this tech recently? Maybe it's something normal people can buy in some years then.

 

[floral]

The most promising replacement is Micro LED I think. It's basically like an oled where every pixel/color is a separate LED. Didn't announce Samsung some extremely expensive TVs using this tech recently? Maybe it's something normal people can buy in some years then.

That sounds even cooler!

 

[grmlin]

Found it

MICRO LED - The One and Only | Samsung US

Feel the breathtaking scale of the Samsung Micro LED’s cutting-edge display, sound and high-end big screen with the ultimate level of realism.

www.samsung.com

110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022) | Samsung US

Discover the latest art display TV features and innovations available in the 110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022).

www.samsung.com

 

[xxray]

Oh. So the only "fix" in sight is a switch to OLED?

I prefer retina over mini-LED and I'm frankly glad I went for the smaller size because that seems... annoying.

I thought maybe there would be an improvement via a software update with the iPad because for how many mini-LED zones the display has, the blooming shouldn’t be as bad as it is and since Apple reduced blooming just months later with the MacBook Pros. However, it could just be that they’re fundamentally different mini-LED displays and Apple can’t improve the current iPad Pro panel with software any farther. If they haven’t done it so far, almost 2 years since release and with the new M2 model, I don’t see why they’d do it now.

I don’t really think there’s a fix to completely get rid of blooming on mini-LED displays though. The whole reason there is blooming is because the pixels are separated into zones that each have one backlight behind them. Blooming happens when just a small amount of pixels in that zone needs lit up, but since it can’t just light that one/few pixels only, the entire zone has the backlight turned on behind it. The reason OLED and micro-LED solves blooming is that each individual pixel has a backlight behind it. So an entire cluster/zone of pixels doesn’t need to be turned on for just one or a few pixels. Only the pixels that are supposed to have a backlight turned on will have it.

So, for example, your 11” iPad just has one big backlight for the entire screen. That’s why there’s no blooming but there’s no pure black pixels either. Every pixel always has the backlight turned on behind it. The 12.9” iPad Pro has ~10,000 zones/clusters of pixels with one backlight per zone. You can get pure black pixels if the entire zone is turned off, but if any pixel needs lit up in a zone, the entire zone must be turned on, leading to blooming. For OLED and micro-LED, each individual pixel has its own backlight, so no blooming.

 

[fel10]

Do you also see the trailing behind text while scrolling on the iPad Pro? Most notcieable on a dark background. It seems to be a response time issue but causes eye strain for me.

I actually started that thread about the scrolling issue which the last update completely fixed it

 

[floral]

I thought maybe there would be an improvement via a software update with the iPad because for how many mini-LED zones the display has, the blooming shouldn’t be as bad as it is and since Apple reduced blooming just months later with the MacBook Pros. However, it could just be that they’re fundamentally different mini-LED displays and Apple can’t improve the current iPad Pro panel with software any farther. If they haven’t done it so far, almost 2 years since release and with the new M2 model, I don’t see why they’d do it now.

I don’t really think there’s a fix to completely get rid of blooming on mini-LED displays though. The whole reason there is blooming is because the pixels are separated into zones that each have one backlight behind them. Blooming happens when just a small amount of pixels in that zone needs lit up, but since it can’t just light that one/few pixels only, the entire zone has the backlight turned on behind it. The reason OLED and micro-LED solves blooming is that each individual pixel has a backlight behind it. So an entire cluster/zone of pixels doesn’t need to be turned on for just one or a few pixels. Only the pixels that are supposed to have a backlight turned on will have it.

So, for example, your 11” iPad just has one big backlight for the entire screen. That’s why there’s no blooming but there’s no pure black pixels either. Every pixel always has the backlight turned on behind it. The 12.9” iPad Pro has ~10,000 zones/clusters of pixels with one backlight per zone. You can get pure black pixels if the entire zone is turned off, but if any pixel needs lit up in a zone, the entire zone must be turned on, leading to blooming. For OLED and micro-LED, each individual pixel has its own backlight, so no blooming.

So that's why I notice a very dark grey for the blacks and not.. actual blacks.

 

[profcutter]

Found it

MICRO LED - The One and Only | Samsung US

Feel the breathtaking scale of the Samsung Micro LED’s cutting-edge display, sound and high-end big screen with the ultimate level of realism.

www.samsung.com

110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022) | Samsung US

Discover the latest art display TV features and innovations available in the 110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022).

www.samsung.com

The problem with microLED so far is that making smaller displays is more difficult because you have to make the LED emitters themselves smaller. Hence the huge price tags and the huge sizes for high res microLED displays. OLED has its trade offs, but it’s here now. One of the trade offs is longevity, but you’d think apple would be happy about that.

 

[VaruLV]

So, for example, your 11” iPad just has one big backlight for the entire screen. That’s why there’s no blooming but there’s no pure black pixels either. Every pixel always has the backlight turned on behind it. The 12.9” iPad Pro has ~10,000 zones/clusters of pixels with one backlight per zone. You can get pure black pixels if the entire zone is turned off, but if any pixel needs lit up in a zone, the entire zone must be turned on, leading to blooming. For OLED and micro-LED, each individual pixel has its own backlight, so no blooming.

Its 10k+ mini LED's(or "pixels" as you called them) in group of 4:

• Liquid Retina XDR display
• 12.9-inch (diagonal) mini-LED-backlit Multi‑Touch display with IPS technology
• 2D backlighting system with 2,596 full‑array local dimming zones

Thus its not 10k dimming zones/cluster, for that in total would make it in excess of 40k mini LED's in that screen and dimming would probably be non issue even for the hardcore complainers here 😃!

 

[xxray]

Its 10k+ mini LED's(or "pixels" as you called them) in group of 4:

• Liquid Retina XDR display
• 12.9-inch (diagonal) mini-LED-backlit Multi‑Touch display with IPS technology
• 2D backlighting system with 2,596 full‑array local dimming zones

Thus its not 10k dimming zones/cluster, for that in total would make it in excess of 40k mini LED's in that screen and dimming would probably be non issue even for the hardcore complainers here 😃!

Thank you for the corrections.

 

[pdoherty]

Not fixed and probably never will be. The mini-LED MacBook Pros have significantly less blooming than the mini-LED iPad Pros, but it’s still present. Even with the improvements on the MBP, I was watching an HDR show on it in the dark last week, and there was a night scene with a lot of flashing lights. It was comical how bad it looked due to the blooming, like you couldn’t even discern what was happening. This is likely one of the reasons Apple is expected to move to OLED for both the iPad Pros and MacBook Pros next year. Mini-LED is a stopgap between LCD and OLED.

They need microLED and skip everything in between. No idea when those are ready in small (phone and tablet) sizes though.

 

[Radon87000]

Not fixed and probably never will be. The mini-LED MacBook Pros have significantly less blooming than the mini-LED iPad Pros, but it’s still present. Even with the improvements on the MBP, I was watching an HDR show on it in the dark last week, and there was a night scene with a lot of flashing lights. It was comical how bad it looked due to the blooming, like you couldn’t even discern what was happening. This is likely one of the reasons Apple is expected to move to OLED for both the iPad Pros and MacBook Pros next year. Mini-LED is a stopgap between LCD and OLED.

Reduced blooming comes at the cost of brightness. I don't own the MiniLED Macbook but if its having less bloom than the iPad, Apple likely went aggressive with the local dimming algorithm so it won't be as bright as the iPad in HDR.

IMO, MiniLED is a cost effective way of trying to match an LCD with the capabilities of OLED but it still doesn't lend itself naturally to HDR. OLED's per pixel dimming is crucial for good HDR

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So that's why I notice a very dark grey for the blacks and not.. actual blacks.

After getting my new iPad, I pulled up my old one because I needed to make sure some files got copied over… and I had no idea how I didn’t notice how not-black the blacks on the old one was. It was such a stark difference.

 

[rkuo]

I thought maybe there would be an improvement via a software update with the iPad because for how many mini-LED zones the display has, the blooming shouldn’t be as bad as it is and since Apple reduced blooming just months later with the MacBook Pros. However, it could just be that they’re fundamentally different mini-LED displays and Apple can’t improve the current iPad Pro panel with software any farther. If they haven’t done it so far, almost 2 years since release and with the new M2 model, I don’t see why they’d do it now.

I don’t really think there’s a fix to completely get rid of blooming on mini-LED displays though. The whole reason there is blooming is because the pixels are separated into zones that each have one backlight behind them. Blooming happens when just a small amount of pixels in that zone needs lit up, but since it can’t just light that one/few pixels only, the entire zone has the backlight turned on behind it. The reason OLED and micro-LED solves blooming is that each individual pixel has a backlight behind it. So an entire cluster/zone of pixels doesn’t need to be turned on for just one or a few pixels. Only the pixels that are supposed to have a backlight turned on will have it.

So, for example, your 11” iPad just has one big backlight for the entire screen. That’s why there’s no blooming but there’s no pure black pixels either. Every pixel always has the backlight turned on behind it. The 12.9” iPad Pro has ~10,000 zones/clusters of pixels with one backlight per zone. You can get pure black pixels if the entire zone is turned off, but if any pixel needs lit up in a zone, the entire zone must be turned on, leading to blooming. For OLED and micro-LED, each individual pixel has its own backlight, so no blooming.

Yes ... and to reiterate, on LED TV's with local dimming, the trick to mitigate perceived blooming is to use bias lighting to raise the light floor in the room a bit above pitch black. The same applies to the iPad. Even movie theaters are not pitch black. If you absolutely must use the iPad in pitch black darkness with a movie or an app that is prone to blooming, then oh well ... that's how the tech works.

 

[Radon87000]

After getting my new iPad, I pulled up my old one because I needed to make sure some files got copied over… and I had no idea how I didn’t notice how not-black the blacks on the old one was. It was such a stark difference.

The difference is even more stark when you move to OLED from MiniLED. You start to notice the flawed blooming on the MiniLED more as the OLED is pitch black.

 

[grmlin]

The difference is even more stark when you move to OLED from MiniLED. You start to notice the flawed blooming on the MiniLED more as the OLED is pitch black.

I have an LG OLED TV and the iPad screen is still fantastic I just love the peak brightness watching movies/tv shows

 

[grmlin]

Thread bump

am I imagining things or did Apple improve the dimming? It looks much better to me than ever, lying in darkness in bed. And I’m using mine (M1) since release day.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Thread bump

am I imagining things or did Apple improve the dimming? It looks much better to me than ever, lying in darkness in bed. And I’m using mine (M1) since release day.

I have the immediate predecessor to that model, and use my Mini more. That IPP hurts when it hits my nose.

But it also seems to be brighter than the mini. Is that what 'blooming' is?

EDIT: And with most of the images being 'old' at the beginning, I can't tell. Hmm...

 

[WilliamG]

Thread bump

am I imagining things or did Apple improve the dimming? It looks much better to me than ever, lying in darkness in bed. And I’m using mine (M1) since release day.

You're imagining it. I have the M2 12.9 now, and it's just as bad in certain scenarios as it's ever been, especially in near-black scenes in movies. The blooming can be horrendous.

 

[Ubele]

I thought it had improved, too, but I realized that I don’t watch my iPad in bed at night in total darkness as much as I used to. Seriously, I only noticed the blooming in white-on-black closing credits. I never noticed it with actual content. I’ve suffered from OCD in the past, and the blooming would have driven me crazy when I was younger. But now, the iPad Pro screen looks fabulous to me 99% of the time, especially when compared to my previous “regular” 2017 9.7” iPad, where the blacks we dark gray. If you need something to be 100% perfect under all viewing conditions… well, I don’t know what tablet to recommend. For me, I love my 2021 12.9” IPP!

 

[someone33]

You're imagining it. I have the M2 12.9 now, and it's just as bad in certain scenarios as it's ever been, especially in near-black scenes in movies. The blooming can be horrendous.

It's too bad because it's really close to being about perfect. It seems like Sony is still the only company that has really nailed local dimming algorithms, everything else just has too many shortcomings.

 

[grmlin]

Still. It’s better than before. I use mine multiple times a week in bed with the wife sleeping next to me. Tried it again yesterday and it was still different.

Weird

 

[madat42]

Thread bump

am I imagining things or did Apple improve the dimming? It looks much better to me than ever, lying in darkness in bed. And I’m using mine (M1) since release day.

I was going to chime in here too and ask if others are also noticing an improved difference in blooming? I could have sworn I used to see pretty bad blooming - an almost white box around white text on black screen. I think the Apple TV+ logo would appear this way last month but not anymore. Did it change after the iOS 16.4.1 update?

 

[WilliamG]

I was going to chime in here too and ask if others are also noticing an improved difference in blooming? I could have sworn I used to see pretty bad blooming - an almost white box around white text on black screen. I think the Apple TV+ logo would appear this way last month but not anymore. Did it change after the iOS 16.4.1 update?

No, and no.

 

[madat42]

No, and no.

Where are you seeing it the worst? I want to reproduce it on mine.

 

[grmlin]

I was going to chime in here too and ask if others are also noticing an improved difference in blooming? I could have sworn I used to see pretty bad blooming - an almost white box around white text on black screen. I think the Apple TV+ logo would appear this way last month but not anymore. Did it change after the iOS 16.4.1 update?

I don't know what they did, but something changed. I use it for almost two years now but content like the Apple TV logo definitely improved. The white boxes are less pronounced. The blooming is still there, of course, but it feels less intense.