Is a 4200rpm HDD really that bad?

[Scottsdale]

You have to really enjoy how someone can suddenly say that you'll never really have the true Mac experience without owning a machine with an SSD. I guess my MacPro is useless piece of sh*t because it doesn't have an SSD in it. Oh crap! My Mini is a useless POS media center without an SSD as well!

Damnit, all these years I've never experienced a true Mac. A mac is not a mac without SSD. Interesting.

I'm off to the Marketplace to sell my PCs. I sure hope to have a Mac one day.

For such an arrogant attitude you really miss the just of anything/everything I stated completely. Quite honestly, I shouldn't have to explain just how far off your argument is, but I will to show you that your emotion is getting the best of you.

I have worked on plenty of Mac Pros, and they're truly a wonderful Mac "experience." If you read my statement, instead of just replying in furor, you would understand and think before replying so hastily. Quite honestly, your disdain remarks do not warrant a reply, but I will for all of the others who may miss my mark and understand your haste as fact!

The MacBook Air is challenged from a component standpoint. It has minimal space for cooling. This requires it to have a low voltage CPU which is slower than most other Macs from the last three years since the Intel transition. In addition, the CPU and GPU have been throttled down to limit heat output, but this also limits the MacBook Air's capabilities. The drive is also limited in size to meet the super thin space requirements afforded by the MacBook Air. Apple has done an amazing job of making this super thin Mac that weighs three pounds make up for its restricted components by utilizing an SSD to optimize performance of the entire system.

What Apple has done is shear genius IF one is able to capitalize on the SSD option. The 1.8" 4200 rpm HDD is severely limited even compared to a standard 2.5" 7200 rpm HDD. To further maximize the reward of the compact "Air" system, Apple has used the technological advancements of the primary constraint (bottleneck) to make the MacBook Air feel like a MacBook Pro or when connected to a 24" LED ACD a Mac Pro!

With only the 1.8" 4200 rpm HDD, the MacBook Air is even slower than one would imagine as its component base is slower than ALL other Macs from the last three years. So Apple uses the biggest advancement in technology (SSD) to overcome the primary constraint (4200 rpm HDD) and to give the end user the result of a complete Mac experience that one would expect given use of a MacBook Pro with 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Penryn CPU, 4 GB RAM, and a 2.5" 7200 rpm HDD.

That most certainly doesn't imply or exclaim that one needs an SSD in a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro to have a rewarding Mac experience. What that simply states is that a MacBook Air while limited in ALL other components, feels like a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro when an SSD is installed in the MacBook Air.

You simply aren't reading the words I have typed out for you. What I am stating is that the MacBook Air with a completely slower component set than a superior Mac can makeup for the Mac experience with a simple SSD upgrade. The SSD, paired with the Nvidia 9400m, is the genius in the MacBook Air that rewards its user with an incredible Mac experience. With a 1.8" 5 mm tall 4200 rpm HDD, the MacBook Air has a complete set of inferior components not awarding the user what he or she would expect given their Mac experience had previously consisted of a MacBook Pro with 2.4 GHz CPU, 4 GB RAM, and 2.5" 7200 rpm HDD!

Read again if you still want to misrepresent my statement. It is well refined and perfectly clear. It does not state anything of the sort that all/any other Mac would require an SSD to reward the user with a typical Mac experience. It simply means that the SSD in the MacBook Air makes up for its other component shortcomings so greatly that it's a completely different negative experience when the 1.8" 4200 rpm HDD is substituted in the place of the SSD.

The SSD in the MacBook Air makes the Mac experience!

To put it one last way to get the point across to you, I am NOT using the SSD as a requirement for a Mac-like experience. It is actually quite contrary. The baseline Mac I am using in my argument as a positive or normal Mac experience is a MacBook Pro with 2.4 GHz CPU, 4 GB RAM, and 2.5" 7200 rpm HDD!

 

[KyleKlink]

Interesting Thread

This is not my first Mac, I have had two iMacs within the last two years (sold them both to buy my wife camera equipment for her business). So, I'm not really looking for the full-blown "Mac experience" that you keep mentioning. I've experienced a Mac, and I like it. Do I care if it's blistering fast? Will the 4200rpm HDD ruin my entire view on Macintosh because it doesn't open apps in less than one bounce?

No. It wont.

What I am looking to purchase is a 2nd computer to use essentially as a netbook. Im not a fan of Vista, and Windows 7 doesn't look much better (my opinion). So, I am looking to get a Macbook so I can avoid Windows. I am not looking for this orgasmic "Mac Experience" you keep referencing, as I don't much care whether or not this Macbook WOWS me. I just want it to work.

Refurbished is not for me, I only buy brand new.

I'm leaning towards the HDD model.

 

[Scottsdale]

You have to really enjoy how someone can suddenly say that you'll never really have the true Mac experience without owning a machine with an SSD. I guess my MacPro is useless piece of sh*t because it doesn't have an SSD in it. Oh crap! My Mini is a useless POS media center without an SSD as well!

Damnit, all these years I've never experienced a true Mac. A mac is not a mac without SSD. Interesting.

I'm off to the Marketplace to sell my PCs. I sure hope to have a Mac one day.

This is not my first Mac, I have had two iMacs within the last two years (sold them both to buy my wife camera equipment for her business). So, I'm not really looking for the full-blown "Mac experience" that you keep mentioning. I've experienced a Mac, and I like it. Do I care if it's blistering fast? Will the 4200rpm HDD ruin my entire view on Macintosh because it doesn't open apps in less than one bounce?

No. It wont.

What I am looking to purchase is a 2nd computer to use essentially as a netbook. Im not a fan of Vista, and Windows 7 doesn't look much better (my opinion). So, I am looking to get a Macbook so I can avoid Windows. I am not looking for this orgasmic "Mac Experience" you keep referencing, as I don't much care whether or not this Macbook WOWS me. I just want it to work.

Refurbished is not for me, I only buy brand new.

I'm leaning towards the HDD model.

Refurbished is brand new open box. Read any thread about it. Save $150 and get SSD.

I don't get why anyone would be comfortable paying more money for a Mac that is more like a netbook.

Seriously, if my argument doesn't make sense to you, there is no point in me caring if you want to blow your money.

Why even create a thread if you don't plan to learn from those who have owned all three versions of the Mac you want to buy???????????

Eternally confused by the pointless thread by the OP!

Whatever!

 

[zedsdead]

This is not my first Mac, I have had two iMacs within the last two years (sold them both to buy my wife camera equipment for her business). So, I'm not really looking for the full-blown "Mac experience" that you keep mentioning. I've experienced a Mac, and I like it. Do I care if it's blistering fast? Will the 4200rpm HDD ruin my entire view on Macintosh because it doesn't open apps in less than one bounce?

No. It wont.

What I am looking to purchase is a 2nd computer to use essentially as a netbook. Im not a fan of Vista, and Windows 7 doesn't look much better (my opinion). So, I am looking to get a Macbook so I can avoid Windows. I am not looking for this orgasmic "Mac Experience" you keep referencing, as I don't much care whether or not this Macbook WOWS me. I just want it to work.

Refurbished is not for me, I only buy brand new.

I'm leaning towards the HDD model.

I strongly suggest the SSD model. It will make you have a completely different mac experience, one in where you will never want to go back to an HDD again.

 

[Scottsdale]

I strongly suggest the SSD model. It will make you have a completely different mac experience, one in where you will never want to go back to an HDD again.

Dude, this is a lost cause. Thread is pointless when someone asks for advice but doesn't genuinely care for the truth. He wants his Mac to be like a netbook.

Amazed at how pointless some threads are. Sad to waste our time for someone who throws it in your face.

 

[KyleKlink]

Why even create a thread if you don't plan to learn from those who have owned all three versions of the Mac you want to buy???????????

Eternally confused by the pointless thread by the OP!

Whatever!

Dude, you're not the only person to reply to this thread. And you are severely outnumbered when it comes to opinions of the 4200 HDD. The majority of the people responding said it would likely be just fine.

It seems you would rather have me abandon everyone's opinion but yours, as if yours is somehow superior. I'm guessing you're a bit of a narcissist, am I right?

 

[KyleKlink]

I strongly suggest the SSD model. It will make you have a completely different mac experience, one in where you will never want to go back to an HDD again.

Why is it always about the "experience" with Mac users? Does a computer always have to be top-of-the-line in order for it to be effective? If the 4200 is such crap, why does Apple even bother to sell it?

Oh, that's right, because some people don't need a blistering fast laptop to WOW them! I just want something that works, and that won't be extremely painful to use. I'm going to be surfing the interwebs on it, not looking for an orgasmic "experience." If I want something fast I will sit down at my desktop PC.

 

[aussie.damo]

Why is it always about the "experience" with Mac users? Does a computer always have to be top-of-the-line in order for it to be effective? If the 4200 is such crap, why does Apple even bother to sell it?

Oh, that's right, because some people don't need a blistering fast laptop to WOW them! I just want something that works, and that won't be extremely painful to use. I'm going to be surfing the interwebs on it, not looking for an orgasmic "experience." If I want something fast I will sit down at my desktop PC.

Go with the HDD model. I have the Rev A with HDD and ya know what? It's great! It does exactly what I need, it doesn't overheat and it suits my requirements perfectly. Yes, I have a few other Mac's, but the Air is by far the one I use most. It's a perfectly capable machine.

I am always surprised at the vigour with which people defend their decisions. People who insist you MUST get the SSD to have the Mac experience are just plain wrong. I am also shocked at how repetitive these posters are. We get it! You love your SSD & NVIDIA combination. Understood.

I'm glad that different people have responded to you in this thread as I feel the Air forums have been filled with garbage of late. Every question is answered with "SSD NVIDIA ONLY WAY TO GO FORGET THE REST THAT'S THE BEST" and some people might see that as the truth. It's not.

Good luck with your purchase, I look forward to reading about how much you love your new HDD Air

Damo

 

[aussie.damo]

Are you ****ing kidding me? You clearly have no idea when you call it miserable.
I have a Rev B HDD model and it's plenty fine. Yes, a SSD would be way better but the 4200 RPM is not as bad as these people are saying.

Seriously get a grip.

iPhoto bounces about 5 times before it opens. Safari bounces about 3. Photoshop Elements bounces 7 times before opening. Mail bounces twice.

I'm not saying a HDD is 50% as fast as a SSD but it's fine, especially if it's a casual use machine. While I'd love to have an SSD, the HDD is plenty fine.

It pisses me off Scottsdale when people like you get all high and mighty with your SSD or nothing BS. You and I both know your over dramatic determination of the HDD model being miserable is BS. And fwiw, it's not about money. I could have bought into the SSD model but for me the value was not there. The MB Air is a fine machine even without the SSD.

*claps*

You are spot on with your assessment. HDD Air rocks (my world, at least).

Nice to see some balance on the Air forums.

Damo

 

[ascender]

I bought a revision A MBA which had the HDD in it. I returned it fairly soon after because of a noticeable sluggishness about the machine. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was causing this, but having since used a friend's machine with an SSD in it, I can only put it down to the HDD. There are countless posts on here about people with SSDs who have used both types and say that the SSD is a completely different machine compared to the HDD and that the drive makes the whole MBA concept make sense.

Having said all that, I think user expectations always play a part in this sort of thing, so depending on what your other Mac is, you may be expecting the MBA to be faster/slower in the first place before you've actually used it.

 

[ayeying]

Dude, this is a lost cause. Thread is pointless when someone asks for advice but doesn't genuinely care for the truth. He wants his Mac to be like a netbook.

Amazed at how pointless some threads are. Sad to waste our time for someone who throws it in your face.

No. This thread is not pointless, as a matter of fact, it is extremely helpful.

You are choosing to completely ignore what the OP is asking and put your point of view and pressuring the OP to go with it. That's not an opinion, that's an ultimatum for the OP. Furthermore, you're ignoring all the other comments from users here and only picking targets that says "HDD is fine enough for the OP".

The only time wasted is the other users who are trying to tell you that, for what the OP needs (see where I'm going here? This is about the OP's needs, not your needs) the HDD model is more than enough.

The OP asked for advice. He/She gets to look at ALL POINTS OF VIEW, not just yours. All you're going on is pointing that "He/She better go with the SSD or He/She won't be happy". Lemme ask you, how the **** do you know if the OP is gonna be happy or not? He/She might be happy with the HDD. Are you a fortune teller now?

The truth is, the ultimate choice is his/hers. Not yours. You can state the facts and your opinions on the HDD vs SSD models, but don't make it a do or die choice for the OP, it's not helpful. Actually, you can say, you're insulting all the HDD model users.

"doesn't genuinely care for the truth" ... you think the OP completely ignores your opinions just because he/she is leaning to the HDD model? This is like a 5 year old getting pissed off because someone wouldn't do something his/her way.

The OP already stated what he/she wants. He/She have read our comments and opinions between the two models. Now its his/her choice.

Go with the HDD model. I have the Rev A with HDD and ya know what? It's great! It does exactly what I need, it doesn't overheat and it suits my requirements perfectly. Yes, I have a few other Mac's, but the Air is by far the one I use most. It's a perfectly capable machine.

I agree. Even though my current machine is an SSD model, I've used the HDD models before for longer than a month. I have no regrets except the overheating. If the overheating wasn't there and the system had an good GPU on the Rev. A, I wouldn't even need to change.

Only reason I got the Rev. C SSD is because of the CPU/GPU combo over the SSD.

 

[Scylax]

Go with the SSD.

I have a white macbook, 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, 250GB HDD 4200RPM. I just got a new MBA top spec with SSD. I have to agree with Scottsdale on this-the SSD is worth every penny, and I would certainly choose a refurb with SSD rather than a new one with HDD. When this MB gets replaced in a few weeks it will be for one with a SSD, as the MBA with a lower clock speed and RAM feels much faster. Unless you do a lot of tasks such as importing photos or music, for which an SSD is actually slower, I would go for the SSD every single time, especially if you can do the above tasks on your desktop. If you can get an opportunity to try both out then do, but fwiw I think Scottsdale is right, if somewhat forceful. I love my MB, but now I wish several times a day that it was as quick as the MBA. That probably says quite a lot.

 

[McDughf]

Why is it always about the "experience" with Mac users? Does a computer always have to be top-of-the-line in order for it to be effective? If the 4200 is such crap, why does Apple even bother to sell it?

Oh, that's right, because some people don't need a blistering fast laptop to WOW them! I just want something that works, and that won't be extremely painful to use. I'm going to be surfing the interwebs on it, not looking for an orgasmic "experience." If I want something fast I will sit down at my desktop PC.

Mate, Part Of The "Mac Experience" is not about how fast a machine runs, its about how smoothly it works. Unless I am doing some processor intensive stuff, I really do not notice much speed difference when using any of my macs, And I have a range from a couple of G4's to a nippy Mac Pro.

The "Smoothness" I am referring to is in the little things, such as having menus appear instantly, and not having to wait around for them, or pressing the volume key and having the HUD and sound effect play straight away, and all the rest of Apples Touches.
These little attentions to minute detail is why Apple Fans Are Apple Fans, and as I said in a previous post, these things are sluggish on my MBA with HDD, dampening the experience slightly. But As I Also Said before, I do not regret buying the machine as I love it to bits.

But If you don't "Get" why we all harp on about the "Mac Experience" is the Mac Really for you?
Just A Thought, as there are netbooks out there that run other things apart from Windows too

 

[Jobsian]

Hmm, my initial impulse is to say definitely go for the SSD. But then I thought if it is just a secondary computer but you want it reasonably fast, a HDD MBA would be good. But then I thought, if it's just for web and email - why not save $$$ and get a netbook?

I would recommend you try both the MBA HDD and a good Netbook - if as you say in your OP it's just for web browsing and email - a netbook would be much cheaper and sufficient. Try both. Also give the devil on your shoulder a say and try the SSD MBA

 

[Jobsian]

As to the volatility of the thread, while it's immensely more entertaining than a more cordial debate I must admit, immensely more, please CHILL!! For your blood pressures' sakes! No need to involve so much blaring emotion!

I have to say I look upon some of the passion here with a similar wonderment to that I have for the circus, ie with a hint of terror.

 

[KyleKlink]

There are countless posts on here about people with SSDs who have used both types and say that the SSD is a completely different machine compared to the HDD and that the drive makes the whole MBA concept make sense.

Having said all that, I think user expectations always play a part in this sort of thing, so depending on what your other Mac is, you may be expecting the MBA to be faster/slower in the first place before you've actually used it.

I think this makes my point well. Sure, the SSD model is going to perform better than the HDD model. But, is that extra performance necessary and worth the additional cost? (I'm not going refurb, so let's not even mention that).

My main concern that led to this thread was whether or not the HDD model is disgustingly slow to the point where it is unusable. From the responses I've seen, this is not the case.

 

[KyleKlink]

But If you don't "Get" why we all harp on about the "Mac Experience" is the Mac Really for you?

So now I am not worthy enough for a Mac because I don't give a crap about the "Experience?" Seriously dude, that's BS.

Why am I going to get a Mac? Because I hate Windows. I wouldn't mind a laptop running Ubuntu if it didn't require so much attention (and if everything would just work, which it wouldn't). I'm choosing Mac because the OS is not going to require me to babysit it.

Who the hell are you to tell me what I should be looking for from Mac OS X? I don't mean to be rude, but seriously dude, you really think I should go for something other than Mac just because I don't care how fast menus are going to open?

My God, some Mac users really scare the crap out of me....

 

[tsubikiddo]

I just cannot be bothered to go through the whole flaming/bkward & fwd display between jessica & Scottsdale
please don't get me wrong, it's a time constraint issue, not that I don't want to look into each's arguments.

To the OP,
I have a rev.B 1.6 HDD
it will work just fine, it will do what you stated in #1

SSD is surely nice, but let's get to the bottom line,
you don't benefit from the performance gain
as in -
you click mail, MBA opens mail,
you click safari, MBA opens safari


You are not in the situation like:
'oh shyt! my MBA can't render this picture in exactly 1min.13secs.422... or sth'
having the SSD is surely a thumb up,
but it doesn't give the HDD a thumb down

Go with the HDD,
it's more than competent


PS. if I were to use SSD, i wouldn't bother with the Samsung SSD currently found in the MBA SSD,
I'd just stuff a x18-E into it,
that's performance, that's the night & day difference

 

[KyleKlink]

But then I thought, if it's just for web and email - why not save $$$ and get a netbook?

Netbook = Windows or some retarded version of Linux. No thanks.

I think I need to clear up a bit more why I am buying a Mac. I really don't care about performance. I care about appearance (call me shallow) and the OS. The Macbook Air is a great looking machine, and it runs Mac OS X, which I think is excellent.

I know your post is just making a kind suggestion, and I appreciate that. But I am quite annoyed by other posters who would suggest that Mac isn't for me because I am not looking for a machine that screams. I want a good OS, and I am willing to pay through the nose for it. What is so wrong about that?!

 

[phatcat]

Once you go SSD, you never go back! (or is this statement about something else?)

I have to agree with Scottsdale, that it's a huge difference in performance, even while web surfing. I suggest to the OP that they go visit a mac store and compare an HD & SSD model side by side. Queue up a web page on both machines, then hit Enter. You'll see the web page load twice as fast on the SSD since any web page is cached on a hard drive. Just about everything you'll do with your mac will easily at least double in speed with an SSD. Also don't forget the SSD is far more reliable than a standard HD.

I imagine some folks are miffed because they don't consider their HD Air as a miserable experience and don't appreciate being informally told they purchased a horrible machine (for lots and lots of $$).

Also, to the OP, check Craigslist for some killer deals. I picked up my new air for $1300.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

My main concern that led to this thread was whether or not the HDD model is disgustingly slow to the point where it is unusable. From the responses I've seen, this is not the case.

Nope, it's just fine. My MBA was my first Mac and I'm thrilled with the way it runs. Even after using my friends with the SSD, I still love mine.

Yes, his is faster, but so is the Revision C with the upgraded chip and GPU. Am I going to run out and buy it right away because it's faster than mine? Absolutely not.

I imagine some folks are miffed because they don't consider their HD Air as a miserable experience and don't appreciate being informally told they purchased a horrible machine (for lots and lots of $$).

Yep, just because your machine is a little faster than mine means that the one I bought is horrible.

 

[GoCubsGo]

It's very easily summed up. A MacBook Air with an HDD is a netbook and not really even worthy of being called a Mac because the Mac experience is totally lost. A MacBook Air with an SSD is the ultimate Mac and will give users the true Mac experience.

I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. I mean, with such intelligence flowing through those statements I'm actually going to go to Apple today to get a Mac and get rid of my netbook. I really hate my Netbook Air, it sucks donkey toes. But really, I totally understand now and there is no more need to argue. Eventually Apple should discontinue any model not carrying an SSD because the HDD MacBook Air is 100% useless. It's crippled technology and not really even worth being called technology.

At least that is what I understand once I weave through ego land. I am sorry I couldn't see this before.

 

[GeekGirl*]

HHD is fine I had also the SSD and is really not worth the money...
Jessica is correct, you don't need a SSD to be happy with your Air.

And scottsdale is just scottsdale

 

[McDughf]

So now I am not worthy enough for a Mac because I don't give a crap about the "Experience?" Seriously dude, that's BS.

...

Who the hell are you to tell me what I should be looking for from Mac OS X?

Now You Listen To Me Sir, And Listen Closely, As I Can Already See You Have A Problem Comprehending English.

I Just Related To You My Own Problems With The HDD MacBook Air And Finished By Asking A Question. Not Once Did I Ever Command, Order Or Even Suggest A Course Of Action To You. Hell I Never Even Impressed An Opinion On You, So To Come Back With Such A Rude Response Is Just Disgusting.

You Asked The Question : " Is A 4200rpm HDD Really That Bad?" Honest People Here Are Giving You Their Honest REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES, Although Some Deliver Them In A Less Then Exemplary Fashion, They Are Their Opinions None The Less. Then You Contradict Your Original Question By Stating That :

I really don't care about performance. I care about appearance (call me shallow) and the OS. The Macbook Air is a great looking machine, and it runs Mac OS X, which I think is excellent.

I Now Believe That You Already Had The Answer To Your Question, So, I'm Afraid I'm Going To Have To Agree With Scottsdale And Back Out Of This Thread, To Everyone Else Thanks For Your Opinions.

Why even create a thread if you don't plan to learn from those who have owned all three versions of the Mac you want to buy???????????

Eternally confused by the pointless thread by the OP!

Whatever!

 

[GeekGuys]

Is this a love thing?

Sorry to go off topic for a second, but are Scottsdale and Jessica and item? This is better than a soap opera !!! You two should meet up....maybe not!

So, to sum up, I think that you should go to the Apple store and try them out.
From personal experience (of pretty much every Mac since 1992) I would say that technology always moves on. SSD may be the way forward if the price comes down enough..... but that is the key here. Is the difference in performance worth the extra money? You only buy new.... so, you have to see what the best value for money is, within your budget. Assuming you can afford any product out there (can't we all.... what recession!?!?!) then it comes down to what you find an acceptable machine at an acceptable price. Simple.

Ease up on McDughf as I think his comment was sarcastic rather than a dig at you. Maybe I am wrong.... but I doubt it. I don't have opinions... they are fact! (that was me being sarcastic incase anyone wants to attack me)

For the record I currently use daily a MBA rev a HDD and a uMBP 15" (yep, just bought it) SSD for impressing clients. I currently prefer the MBA for daily use though. That may change with time!!!!

Barny