Is a 4200rpm HDD really that bad?

[GeekGuys]

one more thing...

That "Mac Experience" that is being used so much. I am a OSX user because of all those reasons against MS/Linux and all those reasons for Apple.
However, I still get the watch, spinning wheel and slow menu items occassionally on my Mac Pro Quad with 16GB RAM. It is not a HDD issue... it is usually an application problem, and almost always because I run MS Office 2008 for Mac on my office machines !!!!!

Seriously, Spotlight indexing, iPhoto cache updates etc etc etc can all take up too many CPU cycles and cause these blips, without any HDD (or SSD) access at all. It doesn't detract from the usefullness or experience of OSX though.

 

[Scottsdale]

It's very easily summed up. A MacBook Air with an HDD is a netbook and not really even worthy of being called a Mac because the Mac experience is totally lost. A MacBook Air with an SSD is the ultimate Mac and will give users the true Mac experience.

I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. I mean, with such intelligence flowing through those statements I'm actually going to go to Apple today to get a Mac and get rid of my netbook. I really hate my Netbook Air, it sucks donkey toes. But really, I totally understand now and there is no more need to argue. Eventually Apple should discontinue any model not carrying an SSD because the HDD MacBook Air is 100% useless. It's crippled technology and not really even worth being called technology.

At least that is what I understand once I weave through ego land. I am sorry I couldn't see this before.

You still haven't replied to my post #26. Your statement was a completely incorrect assesment of what I stated about the SSD. I never stated every Mac needs an SSD. You are way off on your posts. Honestly, they are garbage as you twist around what others say to promote your argument. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I understand you take it as a personal attack that an SSD is superior to your HDD MBA. You bought it at a time when it cost $700 more for SSD. But times have changed and an MBA with SSD now costs the same as the HDD model before. It isn't a personal attack. At the same time if you're going to provide information for people who are buying NOW, you should do them justice by being objective about the current offerings.

I am providing honest assesment of what is currently available for the money. Nobody benefits from MR when peopletwist around what others say to promote their own opinions.

 

[SeanU]

I'm leaning towards picking up a Macbook Air, but cannot justify the additional cost for the SSD model. This is going to be a second computer for me, as I use my desktop primarily. The MBA would be used for web browsing and email when my son is sleeping in my room (where my desktop is).

For such light use, is the 4200rpm really that big of a deal? Sure, it's slower than the SSD. But it is slow to the point where I am going to regret purchasing it?

Anyone who has this model, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Another positive vote for the HDD model here. It's more than fast enough for your tasks. Seriously... web browsing and email need an SSD? These threads get better all of the time...

 

[financeguy]

Here's my 2 cents. I got a good deal on a new rev B HDD model and I'm really happy with it. I use if for email, web, music, video, etc.

I think that the SSD people might be right about it being much faster or better, but since they've used SSD, they can tell how much slower HDD is.

However, if you are like me and have never used SSD, you won't be disappointed and it will feel like most other laptops.

 

[Hemingray]

Good Lord people! Who would have thought SSD vs HDD would stir up this much fervor.

Speaking as someone who has only used a RevA HDD MBA, I will say that it was slow enough that my boss sold it only months after buying it specifically because of the lack of speed. The hard drive was the biggest bottleneck, but other factors such as RAM (2GB) and slow processor affected things as well. FWIW, the Xbench score was abysmal.

Granted, he was expecting way too much from the get-go. I warned him that people were complaining of its slowness, but he was drawn in by the form factor. He wanted something worthy of running stuff like Creative Suite, and iMovie and such, which in my opinion is way too much to ask for the bottom model RevA.

I have yet to have the opportunity to use an SSD (still waiting for prices to come down), but based on benchmarks I would expect it to make a significant difference from using an HDD, especially a 4200RPM one.

Basically, for what the original poster said, I agree that an HDD should fit his needs fine.

 

[rtdunham]

Refurbished is brand new open box. Read any thread about it. Save $150 and get SSD.

Historically that's not been true. Refurbs included machines that had been used and returned. One personal example: An iPod i bought refurb'd that had more than 1,000 songs on it, most of them registered to a user who had no doubt bought the device and shortly thereafter returned it, apple having failed to wipe it before selling it again. Maybe Apple's changed their refurb policy since, dunno.

Having said that: I buy most of my computers refurb and have never had a problem, other than a MacPro years ago that arrived lacking some of the system disks. Apple promptly sent me replacements.

Seriously, if my argument doesn't make sense to you, there is no point in me caring if you want to blow your money.

Why even create a thread if you don't plan to learn from those who have owned all three versions of the Mac you want to buy???????????

Whatever!

Scottsdale, if I may? You come across as way too invested in your opinions, and that detracts from the valuable contribution you might otherwise make.
Example: If one of your arguments "doesn't make sense" to someone, they are--your conclusion--blowing their money.
Example: If someone doesn't accept your argument, but is moved by the opinions of others, they--your conclusion--shouldn't even have created the thread.

Life's not like that. My wish for you is that youi begin to recognize that your opinions have the same value as others', when everyone's describing their personal experiences as the bases for those opinions. Going through life believing your opinions are always the right ones--worse yet, the only acceptable ones--can't lead to happiness. Don't even get me started on the futility of parenting with that sort of fervor!

On a more factual note:
1) I think i've seen reviews comparing performance of HD & SSD MBAs showing very modest differences. I'll try to dig up one.
2) I think you're wrong when you say (in an earlier post) that a 7200 rpm drive is 30% faster than a 5400 rpm drive. It may spin 30% faster. But that's vastly different than arguing about performance. Again, i've seen recent reviews that found the 7200 rpm HDs available for MBPs perform at about the same level as slower drives in the same machine. There's a multitude of factors that determine performance, not just spin speed.

Peace to all.

 

[GoCubsGo]

You still haven't replied to my post #26. Your statement was a completely incorrect assesment of what I stated about the SSD. I never stated every Mac needs an SSD. You are way off on your posts. Honestly, they are garbage as you twist around what others say to promote your argument. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I understand you take it as a personal attack that an SSD is superior to your HDD MBA. You bought it at a time when it cost $700 more for SSD. But times have changed and an MBA with SSD now costs the same as the HDD model before. It isn't a personal attack. At the same time if you're going to provide information for people who are buying NOW, you should do them justice by being objective about the current offerings.

I am providing honest assesment of what is currently available for the money. Nobody benefits from MR when peopletwist around what others say to promote their own opinions.

I did not intentionally gloss over post #26 but it is funny, you probably disagree, but everything you've said to me I've said to you. Right down to how you should be ashamed of yourself, really.

I am not offended and you don't understand it was not a personal attack because it is not personal to me (it is clearly to you) and it is not an attack (because you can get to me like that) so clearly you don't understand. I wish you could offend me over something like this, that would tell me there is nothing bigger than this out there. You didn't offend me at all but it is clear I offended you and possibly hurt your feelings.

The unfortunate aspect is it that you asked me to be objective when I was. You were not. You push your garbage just as you say I am. In this case you're going to have to admit that we'll agree to disagree and your paper hammer can be put down because there's no argument here.

If you read what I wrote I've defended both sides as I saw fit. I'm sorry I can't defend your purchase, it wasn't mine to defend.

So relax friend, it's ok.

 

[stockscalper]

Historically that's not been true. Refurbs included machines that had been used and returned. One personal example: An iPod i bought refurb'd that had more than 1,000 songs on it, most of them registered to a user who had no doubt bought the device and shortly thereafter returned it, apple having failed to wipe it before selling it again. Maybe Apple's changed their refurb policy since, dunno.

Most refurbs are simply open box returns. But whether they are just open box or have been used they undergo a series of tests that includes, in the case of computers, a reformatting of the hard drive. Then they are repackaged with necessary accessories added. Apple refurbs come with a full warranty. Your experience doesn't sound like you bought the device from Apple. I've had a less than satisfactory experience buying through a third party one time. Since then, I've bought a number of refurbs from Apple and every one has been just like new. Most have been laptops and you couldn't tell the difference between them and a new one. My next computer will likely be a MBA and it will be a refurb from Apple.

 

[nws0291]

Get the HDD. If you want to go SSD later you can. The SSD that Apple offers sucks. It's slow for a SSD and they charge way to much for it. If you want an SSD buy an OCZ Vertex/Summit or the new Intel drive that they just came out with. I have two Summits. One in my Core i7 hackintosh and one in my Macbook.

 

[Scottsdale]

Get the HDD. If you want to go SSD later you can. The SSD that Apple offers sucks. It's slow for a SSD and they charge way to much for it. If you want an SSD buy an OCZ Vertex/Summit or the new Intel drive that they just came out with. I have two Summits. One in my Core i7 hackintosh and one in my Macbook.

The SSDs you're pushing are 2.5" drives. The MBA uses a 1.8" drive with a 5mm height restriction. There is no aftermarket solution except the same Samsung drive Apple uses, and with that one needs to solder the MBA's LIF connector to a SATA cable to fit the drive.

Bottom line, there is no simple solution. What the MBA is purchased with is the drive it will most likely have its entire useful life. Unfortunately, 99% of those wanting to upgrade theirs will never be able to anywhere near the price Apple charges for it new.

I personally find it confusing why anyone wouldn't want to spend $150 less to get something that is called "refurbished." Almost everyone I have spoken with or read about their rev B SSD receive them in new condition with typical new battery cycle count of one or zero. But that advice is for ANY OTHER person who may be interested in MBA as OP is appauled by thought of "refurbished." Apparently thinking been used for six months, has cookie crumbs stuck in the keyboard, a battery cycle count of 300, and scratches all over the unit. Of course anyone who has read about Apple refurbish can vouch for the opposite. And all of us with knowledge of Apple's practices realize these are all brand new units remaining in inventory reboxed and renamed to be sold for those who are smart enough to buy a past revision Mac at a huge discount with superior parts in the case of SSD over HDD. Incredible that someone would state only care about appearance and chooses to spend life waiting on his computer for a surcharge of $150. LMAO!!!

 

[KyleKlink]

But that advice is for ANY OTHER person who may be interested in MBA as OP is appauled by thought of "refurbished." Apparently thinking been used for six months, has cookie crumbs stuck in the keyboard, a battery cycle count of 300, and scratches all over the unit.

Straw man argument there. Try harder next time.

I never said I was appalled by refurbished machines, nor did I state why my personal opinion of them was. My take on refurbished units--and this applies to all products, not just Macs--is that I would rather pay the additional amount to get a factory sealed, never touched by consumer product. I will agree that most refurbished units are in no way different from brand new units. But still, I would rather buy new than buy something that might have been originally returned for some sort of technical issue. Ever heard of the term "lemon"?

You're probably going to tell me that Mac doesn't have lemons though, because they are superior and use only the latest and greatest components.

 

[rtdunham]

Most refurbs are simply open box returns. But whether they are just open box or have been used they undergo a series of tests that includes, in the case of computers, a reformatting of the hard drive. Then they are repackaged with necessary accessories added. Apple refurbs come with a full warranty. Your experience doesn't sound like you bought the device from Apple. I've had a less than satisfactory experience buying through a third party one time. Since then, I've bought a number of refurbs from Apple and every one has been just like new. Most have been laptops and you couldn't tell the difference between them and a new one. My next computer will likely be a MBA and it will be a refurb from Apple.

the iPod in my example was purchased at an apple store. it just slipped thru the QC. As I said, I've been very happy with refurbs and I advocate them for friends and family.

 

[Doju]

Straw man argument there. Try harder next time.

I never said I was appalled by refurbished machines, nor did I state why my personal opinion of them was. My take on refurbished units--and this applies to all products, not just Macs--is that I would rather pay the additional amount to get a factory sealed, never touched by consumer product. I will agree that most refurbished units are in no way different from brand new units. But still, I would rather buy new than buy something that might have been originally returned for some sort of technical issue. Ever heard of the term "lemon"?

You're probably going to tell me that Mac doesn't have lemons though, because they are superior and use only the latest and greatest components.

Err, return it if it's a lemon? They have the same warranty, and whatever issue made them a "lemon" was corrected. I've only ordered refurbished machines and I've yet to have a problem with them.

You're incredibly shallow. Buying a machine for hundreds of dollars more than what you could get it for so you can have a pretty box.

 

[joelypolly]

It a choice

Both upsides and down sides. SSD is much faster but more expensive. HDD is slower but cheaper. At the end of the day you decide what is more important to you.

Consider this I scanned through 15,000 photos and moved them using a script with filtering on the SSD in the blink of an eye. To which I thought did my script run properly? And it did, just very very fast. The same thing would take quite a bit longer on a HDD based system in fact probably enough time for me to get a cup of coffee.

While this isn't a typical example it just goes to show that there is value in having a SSD but do you consider a coffee break a bad thing?

It won't be the end of the world if you go with a HDD but as the Air takes up more of your computing duties (it has for me and I only planned to use it as a email/web laptop) you will start wishing you spent a bit more upfront.

 

[buildingsteam]

I have owned a Rev. A HDD Air, a Rev. B SSD Air, and a Mac Pro. Firstly, to say that any MacBook Air feels like a Mac Pro is pretty meaningless since it depends on what you are doing with it. If one just wants to stare at the desktop then a Cube will feel like a Mac Pro too. To be honest, multitasking on the Air can be sluggish, video performance isn't great, and anything that requires serious CPU will suffer. These issues have nothing to the with the type of disk drive. I think the SSD is of course nice but it is by no means essential if one is realistic about what the Air is actually good for. I totally loved my Rev. A HDD Air and can't see any reason why it wouldn't make a great computer for light use, web browsing, email, music, iPhoto, coding, etc. It was my only personal computer for around a year and the Rev. B SSD has only just replaced it, and there isn't much difference between the two.

 

[alphaod]

I'm beginning to enjoy some these arguments because to me it's nostalgic—feels like first grade again with all the "your mom"-like comebacks.

I have a Rev. C MBA with a SSD. It is very fast for me. It does everything I need it to do. My father has a Rev. A MBA with the HDD. Yes it does take a few more seconds to boot, things aren't as fast, but in the end, things still get done. His needs are different from mine.

You're incredibly shallow. Buying a machine for hundreds of dollars more than what you could get it for so you can have a pretty box.

My father checks emails and browses the web. So yes he spent almost 2 grand on a machine for such a mundane purpose, but the design appealed to him and the computer suited his needs. This has nothing to do with being shallow—besides what's the point of making money if you're just going to hide it under the mattress? What wrong with buying for a fancy box? Do you not buy flowers? Or birthday cards? According to your definition all these people are shallow. Flowers are really expensive considering they don't last very long and birthday cards—I hope you don't give half-folded pieces of paper with nothing on them to people.

I don't know the definite of life or the answer to everyone's needs. Obviously the OP can afford a new unit, so why not let it be? All KyleKlink wants to know is if the HDD model is sufficient for the needs specified and it is. We don't really need comments from the Peanuts gallery.

I can tell you that of many people who switch to Macs for the first time do it for their visual appeal. People are seduced by looks and brand. If I was using a generic computer, and I saw someone with a Mac, I'd probably comment to myself the visual appeal the Mac has.

 

[Doju]

I'm beginning to enjoy some these arguments because to me it's nostalgic—feels like first grade again with all the "your mom"-like comebacks.

I have a Rev. C MBA with a SSD. It is very fast for me. It does everything I need it to do. My father has a Rev. A MBA with the HDD. Yes it does take a few more seconds to boot, things aren't as fast, but in the end, things still get done. His needs are different from mine.



My father checks emails and browses the web. So yes he spent almost 2 grand on a machine for such a mundane purpose, but the design appealed to him and the computer suited his needs. This has nothing to do with being shallow—besides what's the point of making money if you're just going to hide it under the mattress? What wrong with buying for a fancy box? Do you not buy flowers? Or birthday cards? According to your definition all these people are shallow. Flowers are really expensive considering they don't last very long and birthday cards—I hope you don't give half-folded pieces of paper with nothing on them to people.

I don't know the definite of life or the answer to everyone's needs. Obviously the OP can afford a new unit, so why not let it be? All KyleKlink wants to know is if the HDD model is sufficient for the needs specified and it is. We don't really need comments from the Peanuts gallery.

I can tell you that of many people who switch to Macs for the first time do it for their visual appeal. People are seduced by looks and brand. If I was using a generic computer, and I saw someone with a Mac, I'd probably comment to myself the visual appeal the Mac has.

Wow, try reading my post?

I'm saying, the only advantage with new over refurbished is you get a pretty box. Refurbished has nothing wrong with it. If she's infantile enough to pay hundreds of dollars more than the same refurbished machine, only to get a box you'll unwrap for five seconds and throw away, she is shallow. For slightly cheaper than the Rev C HDD new you can get the Rev B SSD refurbished. Faster, cheaper, better machine. Don't be shallow.

MACS look great, and I too buy them for their looks. But to pay hundreds for a BOX (I said box... I didn't even say Mac) is frankly juvenile. The HDD will do, but why pay more for it when you could get an SSD one cheaper?

Some refurbs don't even make it out of the factory. If I order a machine, and then an hour later figure I don't want it, and cancel it, Apple can't sell it new. Voila, refurbished machine brand new. Most other refurbished machines are touched for like a moment, and if there was something wrong with them, Apple fixes it, cleans the machine, offers the same warranty and then ships it like new.

There is no advantage, other than the petty box, with new versus refurbished. Be intelligent and get the refurbished, you'll thank yourself when the SSD outperforms the HDD ten times over for LESS.

 

[KyleKlink]

You're incredibly shallow. Buying a machine for hundreds of dollars more than what you could get it for so you can have a pretty box.

Yeah, it's the box I'm after. Look above and read again what I said, dude. I never mentioned wanting a pretty box.

And I'm shallow? Me and thousands of others who would only buy new. What's so wrong with not wanting to dick around returning merchandise because I tried to be a penny pincher and bought used?

 

[KyleKlink]

Wow, try reading my post?

I'm saying, the only advantage with new over refurbished is you get a pretty box. Refurbished has nothing wrong with it. If she's infantile enough to pay hundreds of dollars more than the same refurbished machine, only to get a box you'll unwrap for five seconds and throw away, she is shallow. For slightly cheaper than the Rev C HDD new you can get the Rev B SSD refurbished. Faster, cheaper, better machine. Don't be shallow.

MACS look great, and I too buy them for their looks. But to pay hundreds for a BOX (I said box... I didn't even say Mac) is frankly juvenile. The HDD will do, but why pay more for it when you could get an SSD one cheaper?

Some refurbs don't even make it out of the factory. If I order a machine, and then an hour later figure I don't want it, and cancel it, Apple can't sell it new. Voila, refurbished machine brand new. Most other refurbished machines are touched for like a moment, and if there was something wrong with them, Apple fixes it, cleans the machine, offers the same warranty and then ships it like new.

There is no advantage, other than the petty box, with new versus refurbished. Be intelligent and get the refurbished, you'll thank yourself when the SSD outperforms the HDD ten times over for LESS.

He, not she. Since you cannot determine my gender from my name, the use of "He" would be appropriate, as it is gender neutral.

And I am a male. So "he" works.

Also, you keep harping on the whole "box" thing. The box is not the only difference between new and refurb. Refurbs are used, dude, not new. They have been touched by consumers and returned. Some people choose to save money by going that route, but others choose to buy unused items. I am the kind who wants to buy unused. For you to call me juvenile for doing so is absurd.

your attitude about this issue is nonsensical. Because you like refurbs and save money, I should like it too? Get real, man.


EDIT: Combined comments

 

[caonimadebi]

The Air's SSD really underperforms in terms of the read/write speed. The sequential read speed, according to xbench i've done, never exceeds 100MB/s. The only noticeable advantage is the low latency, which is common to all SSD's. The performance boost in the SSD is so negligible that Apple doesn't even bother to advertise (instead it advertises the stability and low power). The 1.8" form factor should be no excuse for the low performance. The only redeeming feature of the SSD is its relative low cost considering its capacity.
At the end of the day, the HDD and SSD models are not very different in terms of user-perceived performance; but if you have the the extra $300, SSD is a great feature just for the show off factor (and you do get an extra 8GB...)

 

[grinny11]

I have the AIR 1.8 Rev.C HDD. I had to buy the HDD because I could only buy it at bestbuy, where I had credit available. They don't sell the ssd. I am very happy with it and it seems very fast to me. Though I came from an EEE netbook with a really slow SSD, so I guess any new mac would seem fast.