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Technerd108

macrumors 68030
Oct 24, 2021
2,929
4,106
So consumer grade laptops are not crap? I have used both often and many times preferred consumer grade with the caveat that I know business grade are built more durably generally and generally have more parts that can be upgraded. In consumer laptops you trade off the upgradability and durability really depending on the brand. Asus laptops are generally Mil Spec certified which means they are at least more durable than a normal laptop but maybe not upgradable. You save a lot of money for the trade off and I think it is worth it most of the time. Generally consumer laptops over a certain price have greatly improved in design and materials.

That being said I don't think it is worth paying a premium for a business grade laptop for the average consumer. Organizations buy in bulk at one time and get a big discount that no individual will get. Service with a business contract is night and day what a consumer will get even if they purchase one business laptop. They will get certain perks for sure but not the same level of service.

HP has been making laptops for business and consumers for decades and they have a range of laptops for almost every price point with varying degrees of materials and quality for price. For HP generally $800 for an Envy laptop or over 1k for a Spectre will get you a very nice spec, well built laptop that is competitively priced. HP quality and service have never been an issue. I have a cheap plastic 10th gen intel laptop my son still uses way past it's warranty and he takes it to school and back and abuses it. It has not skipped a beat. I have had Envy's that were great and Spectre's that were great. I have had a few duds that I returned but generally I have always had at least one HP laptop in the family over the years and never had any issues other than minor ones or if it was major even a couple months out of warranty I was taken care of. That is not a cheap or crap brand. HP actually has a manufacturing plant in Texas.

Huawei makes some of the best electronics in the world. Their hardware is top notch. If they had access to TSMC and no software bans they would be dominating world markets. BUT they are dumping product and are a state sponsored company that can afford to operate at a loss to give them a market advantage. If I could trust Huawei with their ties to the CCP in the current political environment and bans were not an issue the laptops they make look very, very nice for the cost. In the USA at least I doubt warranty or other support exists so it is a non starter but for other markets the hardware is nice.

To the OP, You should just buy a laptop on sale that fits the specs you want in the price range you want. Don't worry if it is 3x2 or 16 x 10. Just try one and see for yourself. All the talk isn't going to help. If I were you and durability was something I was looking for then the Asus zenbook seems like a no brainer. Mil Spec. Maybe not upgradable or business grade but for the cost I don't see why you would choose anything else??

Otherwise any business grade laptop will be good BUT in terms of business laptops DELL is KING. Dell has unrivaled business support and reputation in the industry. If I was only going to buy a business laptop and was going to pay a premium for it then I think Dell might be your best option. Otherwise there are a ton of choices in the consumer market that should suffice and will be a lot cheaper with better specs.
 

chmania

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2023
177
73
The import ban since 2019 makes it difficult to get these in the U.S., which is a shame.
It's strange that the "freest" country is taking the freedom from their own citizens. By negating something doesn't mean that they don't exist, even though the gov't tries hard. The EU is full of all kinds of laptops and other devices that the US doesn't.
...but I will say the one I bought almost six years ago was a fantastic laptop that was a complete rip-off of the 13” MacBook Pro (despite the 14” screen it was nearly identical in size, and I should know because I carried both with me for several years) in the best possible way.
It looked the same, but ran a "heavy" OS very easily. Huawei only wanted to prove that they can build better devices without all kinds oh heating, keys getting stuck etc. Denying the Chinese technology won't help, for they'd find new(er) better technology. Now, Xiaomi is making EVs.

Have a look at Medion (German technology) and Cepter (from Denmark) and some products from Spain. Of course, all of them are made in China, just as all the Apple products. There are computers from Türkiye (formerly known as Turkey) produced in Türkiye itself.
 
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chmania

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2023
177
73
Huawei makes some of the best electronics in the world. Their hardware is top notch. If they had access to TSMC and no software bans they would be dominating world markets. BUT they are dumping product and are a state sponsored company that can afford to operate at a loss to give them a market advantage. If I could trust Huawei with their ties to the CCP in the current political environment and bans were not an issue the laptops they make look very, very nice for the cost.
Why do you think that Huawei doesn't have access to TSMC? Taiwan has all kinds of connections to Mainland China. All tech companies in the world have their connection with the gov't of their country, Apple, Microsoft too. Isn't it strange that China has a CP, but is the fastest growing technologically and otherwise country in the world? The simple TiK Tok had declassed YouTube lately. :)
 

izzy0242mr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2009
638
430
This looks interesting in terms of specs.
Do ThinkBooks have a good reputation?

Only spec I don't like is that the screen is touch & glossy. Lenovo rep said they expect to get a matte one later.
I have a ThinkPad (https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/lapt...x1x1c9?orgRef=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F) and I hate it. Use it for work. It's pretty ******—I get maybe 2.5 hours of battery on it if I don't crank the screen brightness way down and reduce the already slow performance.

I have a 16 GB RAM model and it still lags terribly when doing basic things like opening/closing apps, connecting/disconnecting displays, etc. Could be that company third-party software slows things down a bit, but it is not fast. My old 2015 Mac is more responsive.
 
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ViperX100

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2021
5
5
Rockville, MD
I bought this Lenovo and did an unboxing/first impressions review.


I think that it's a great overall laptop. Smallest footprint out there and very light with great build quality. Very nice, bright screen, decent keyboard and amazing speakers for its size - better even than Macbook air. The touchpad is not very good...It's glass and smooth to use but it's not haptic and coming from a MacBook or another haptic one, you'll be disappointed. As for the rest, it really is very good. Long battery life, speedy performance, super light and tiny and a 3:2 aspect ratio 120Hz screen.
 
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ghanwani

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 8, 2008
4,597
5,733
I bought this Lenovo and did an unboxing/first impressions review.

I think that it's a great overall laptop. Smallest footprint out there and very light with great build quality. Very nice, bright screen, decent keyboard and amazing speakers for its size - better even than Macbook air. The touchpad is not very good...It's glass and smooth to use but it's not haptic and coming from a MacBook or another haptic one, you'll be disappointed. As for the rest, it really is very good. Long battery life, speedy performance, super light and tiny and a 3:2 aspect ratio 120Hz screen.
Thanks. Very helpful!

I'm currently using a Windows laptop for work which also doesn't have a haptic touchpad and I'm OK with it.

How would you rate the New XPS 13 (I know you have the XPS 14) vs Spectre vs ThinkBook 13x? New XPS 13 would have a similar weight to the ThinkBook 13x. I see you mention an issue with fit and finish and that is concerning especially since many folks have said that quality of ThinkBook is not at the same level as TPad. In other words, even though it may be look & feel good initially, it may not hold up over time.

Per the Lenovo rep I spoke to, they have a magnesium version of the laptop which will have a non-touch matte display and weigh 2.2 lb. It does not appear to be available in the US just yet and they couldn't give me an ETA.

From the UK site:
>>>
  • Non-touch: Starting at 1.15kg
  • Touch: Starting at 1.24kg <-- this is what we get in the US right now
  • Stainless Magnesium Special Edition: Starting at 1kg
>>>
 

ViperX100

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2021
5
5
Rockville, MD
Thanks. Very helpful!

I'm currently using a Windows laptop for work which also doesn't have a haptic touchpad and I'm OK with it.

How would you rate the New XPS 13 (I know you have the XPS 14) vs Spectre vs ThinkBook 13x? New XPS 13 would have a similar weight to the ThinkBook 13x. I see you mention an issue with fit and finish and that is concerning especially since many folks have said that quality of ThinkBook is not at the same level as TPad. In other words, even though it may be look & feel good initially, it may not hold up over time.

Per the Lenovo rep I spoke to, they have a magnesium version of the laptop which will have a non-touch matte display and weigh 2.2 lb. It does not appear to be available in the US just yet and they couldn't give me an ETA.

From the UK site:
>>>
  • Non-touch: Starting at 1.15kg
  • Touch: Starting at 1.24kg <-- this is what we get in the US right now
  • Stainless Magnesium Special Edition: Starting at 1kg
>>>

Happy to help!

I've been using it today as my work laptop and unless you're a clicker, the touchpad is fine. If you're a tapper, you'll like it. Glass surface and very precise.

I'd say that this imperfection is a one-off and I don't think that you can expect Tesla-wide panel gap issues. Apart from this tiny gap, the fit and finish is A+. No flex, very solid, great hinge, and easy one-hand open. My best friend has the XPS 14 (shown in the vid) and there's a speaker issue where they crackle and pop even when the Windows notificans come in. I am talking unacceptable level. Other than that, XPS is built like a tank (a lighter tank in the 13 variant) and the glass panel with the touchpad feels like no other. I was very happy with the HP Spectre 14. I actually almost cancelled the Lenovo order since I received the Spectre first. Great oled screen, amazing haptic touchpad with brightness and volume “sliders” on the sides, decent keyboard, speakers as good as Lenovo with full range, great hinge and 2-1 added bonus. Lenovo really wowed me with the CU9 smoothness that I felt in daily tasks over CU7 and its tiny footprint and 3:2 aspect ratio screen. The battery life is also better on the Lenovo cuz no oled. But honestly, Spectre would get my recommendation to anyone in a heartbeat!
 

Technerd108

macrumors 68030
Oct 24, 2021
2,929
4,106
Thanks. Very helpful!

I'm currently using a Windows laptop for work which also doesn't have a haptic touchpad and I'm OK with it.

How would you rate the New XPS 13 (I know you have the XPS 14) vs Spectre vs ThinkBook 13x? New XPS 13 would have a similar weight to the ThinkBook 13x. I see you mention an issue with fit and finish and that is concerning especially since many folks have said that quality of ThinkBook is not at the same level as TPad. In other words, even though it may be look & feel good initially, it may not hold up over time.

Per the Lenovo rep I spoke to, they have a magnesium version of the laptop which will have a non-touch matte display and weigh 2.2 lb. It does not appear to be available in the US just yet and they couldn't give me an ETA.

From the UK site:
>>>
  • Non-touch: Starting at 1.15kg
  • Touch: Starting at 1.24kg <-- this is what we get in the US right now
  • Stainless Magnesium Special Edition: Starting at 1kg
>>>
I had a Samsung GalaxyBook Ion which had a magnesium shell. It was one of the lightest laptops I ever had. Magnesium is a great metal for laptops(just keep it away from flames.LOL)

Some people don't like Magnesium and think it feels cheap. The Asus ROG Zepherus 14 one of the most popular small gaming laptops also used magnesium.

Personally I feel like lighter is better as long as it doesn't affect durability. Magnesium is very durable even when very thin. So shouldn't lose any durability just weight.

In terms of similar weight the GB4 line 14" models are around 1kg.

It seems that you want a Lenovo. So the model you have found seems good but a little expensive. Ultra 5 instead of 7 for 1360 pounds is a lot. But it is a business model with a premium build. I would want a 14" rather than a 13" laptop just because 13" are mostly going away.

Honestly the Asus Zenbook has better specs with Oled vs IPS and Ultra 7 vs Ultra 5 by Intel. It is much less expensive. The HP Spectre 14 when on sale with 32gb ram and 2tb ssd and ultra 7 for about the same price as the Lenovo with less specs. The HP is not built to business standards but like the Asus the specs for cost are so much better and you are not losing build quality.

At the end of the day the Lenovo you are looking at is nice. I would add Ultra 7 if nothing else as an upgrade though.

Lenovo makes very fine hardware. Specially the high end. I just have reliability issues and CS issues with Lenovo but I never bought a business laptop nor had a business contract.
 
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ghanwani

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 8, 2008
4,597
5,733
I had a Samsung GalaxyBook Ion which had a magnesium shell. It was one of the lightest laptops I ever had. Magnesium is a great metal for laptops(just keep it away from flames.LOL)

Some people don't like Magnesium and think it feels cheap. The Asus ROG Zepherus 14 one of the most popular small gaming laptops also used magnesium.

Personally I feel like lighter is better as long as it doesn't affect durability. Magnesium is very durable even when very thin. So shouldn't lose any durability just weight.

In terms of similar weight the GB4 line 14" models are around 1kg.
The GB4 Pro 14 is 2.71 lb (approx 1.23 Kg)
 

Technerd108

macrumors 68030
Oct 24, 2021
2,929
4,106
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ViperX100

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2021
5
5
Rockville, MD

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,529
43,476
I must say, if there's one thing that I hated about the HP Spectre
I don't if things have changed, but the last time I used HP, it was brimming with bloatware. That is probably my biggest complaint on HP machines. I think overall they're fairly good and well built.
 

Technerd108

macrumors 68030
Oct 24, 2021
2,929
4,106
I don't if things have changed, but the last time I used HP, it was brimming with bloatware. That is probably my biggest complaint on HP machines. I think overall they're fairly good and well built.
The only bloatware now is Macafee and Omen gaming hub but everything else is just a standard Windows install.

Actually not much bloatware anymore. Asus, Acer, Hp, Dell, Lenovo all seem to have about the same amount of bloat. A couple on the list are worse than others but now a days most are generally minimal.
 
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ghanwani

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 8, 2008
4,597
5,733
Have look at this, just for fun. :)
Could never buy that.

(BTW, I'm in the US, but I posted the UK site because it had the specs showing all the different weights for the ThinkBook options which the US site in the original post does not have).
 

ghanwani

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 8, 2008
4,597
5,733
I really like the weight, the battery life, and the looks on this one.
But it only has 8GB.

We talk about Apple being stingy but here's another on the Windows side. I don't even see an option to upgrade to 16GB.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,529
43,476
We talk about Apple being stingy but here's another on the Windows side. I don't even see an option to upgrade to 16GB.
You're right, 8GB is on the low side, doesn't matter if its windows or MacOS. If it were me, I'd not get any laptop that has 8gb.
 
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chmania

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2023
177
73
Could never buy that.

(BTW, I'm in the US, but I posted the UK site because it had the specs showing all the different weights for the ThinkBook options which the US site in the original post does not have).
Now that I got the bug from you, I'm thinking of buying one of the ThinkBooks. Here's someone talking about a ThinkBook. The notebook looks quite lovely. I'm thinking also about Acer Swift 3 or 5. If I buy one of them, more when I buy one of them, I could dual boot with Linux distros. I can't keep with one OS for too long. :) Have been with macOS for somewhat too long, must go back to check on others.
 
Last edited:

ghanwani

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 8, 2008
4,597
5,733
Now that I got the bug from you, I'm thinking of buying one of the ThinkBooks. Here's someone talking about a ThinkBook. The notebook looks quite lovely. I'm thinking also about Acer Swift 3 or 5. If I buy one of them, more when I buy one of them, I could dual boot with Linux distros. I can't keep with one OS for too long. :) Have been with macOS for somewhat too long, must go back to check on others.
In the UK the screen is anti glare but for whatever reason in the US the only screen option is glossy touch for now.
 

filmgirl

macrumors 6502
May 16, 2007
374
307
Seattle, WA
I wound up getting this HP Spectre x360 14” (configured with 32GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD and in Nightfall Black for another $20) for ~$1250 before tax using the HP sale and my corporate discount. I was able to use an Amex $150 off $1000 promo I had which will cover tax and few bucks more (my sales tax is 10.5%). I won’t get it for like two weeks but I’m looking forward to it. I almost got the Dragonfly at Costco (since dropped to $1000), but wanted a higher resolution screen.

Did you make any decisions @ghanwani?
 
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chmania

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2023
177
73
I finally decided to buy a refurbished (class A) 14" Dell laptop for it came at a very nice promotional price. Yesterday, I installed Win11 on my 2018 15" MBP, without any hassle. Even though, Windows automatically raised the screen resolution to 200%, the text looked too tiny. What was interesting was that I had to decrease the screen brightness to 20%. In macOS, it has to be around 65-70% to get the same light. Even the Touch Bar worked, not fully, but all necessary actions worked. Will be checking Win11 in the evening to see how it is doing.

While, you can get the Intel Macs working quite nicely with Win11, it is always better to get a dedicated Windows computer. Linux would get installed and would work beautifully in them. :)
 
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