It sickens me when people defend the creative attempts of these large corporations to avoid paying tax. No laws may have been broken (still questionable), but it's still against the spirit of laws. Unethical even. This is not just about Apple; it's about every large corporation that does this.
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Italian Regulators Conclude Corporate Tax Investigation Against Apple
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It's not the companies duty to think about the "spirit of laws". It's the duty of the legislator to make such spirit part of the law, through laws.
I'm not at all surprised by this post. Your forum username coupled with your post history....
So the lawmakers should fix the laws. They are responsible for making the laws in the first place.
There is corruption in every government on earth. Some of it is so institutionalized that "corruption" becomes an accepted cultural institution.
I suppose this is a bit like me collecting money from 20 people to go buy 20 lottery tickets, and when one of them wins, I go ha ha.. I bought the ticket in my name, so I'm keeping all the money.
I've not done anything illegal, so I'm happy with my morals as not breaking the law is all that matters.
I do agree however, I would like to see such loopholes shut down, so that companies can't hire accountants to "play the system"
I've not done anything illegal, so I'm happy with my morals as not breaking the law is all that matters.
I do agree however, I would like to see such loopholes shut down, so that companies can't hire accountants to "play the system"
How can you use the word "liberal" as an insult? Do you know what the word means? Doesn't the fact that it's used by your side in a derogatory manner tell you that you're on the wrong side?
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It's not double jeopardy, it's just a convoluted appeals system. America has an appeals system, I believe.
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I'm no expert in the financial or legal system of my own country, let alone those of other countries, but I think people are making the excuse that "it's fine, they're not necessarily doing anything illegal". Even if that's true, not being illegal doesn't mean something isn't wrong (similarly, being illegal doesn't mean something is wrong).
Paying less tax than you obviously should be, just because there's a legal loop-hole, is ****ish behaviour. It's immoral for so many reasons - primarily the obvious reason that you're bypassing the main wealth sharing and redistributing purpose of tax, also because you're creating an uneven playing field than benefits the large powerful incumbents who can afford to utilize such loop-holes. Probably other reasons too.
Not a lawyer, so I might be completely off target. I believe that in the US once you're found innocent, the trial ends. If a new substancial evidence is introduced, the trial start from the beginning. In Italy, once you're found innocent, a higher court can reverse the sentence and say that you're guilty, even without the introduction of new evidence.
I don't know about the EU issues, but the U.S. Senate allegations were a joke.
It's actually *their* job to create tax law, so all the various loopholes that Apple and others use are *their* job to fix. The Senators don't actually want to fix those loopholes, however, since they receive a lot of "support" (well, money) from corporations that are really happy with those loopholes. The hearings, memos and speeches are just show to keep too many voters from becoming outraged. (And probably to put pressure of Apple and others to keep the money flowing as fast as possible.)
It's actually *their* job to create tax law, so all the various loopholes that Apple and others use are *their* job to fix. The Senators don't actually want to fix those loopholes, however, since they receive a lot of "support" (well, money) from corporations that are really happy with those loopholes. The hearings, memos and speeches are just show to keep too many voters from becoming outraged. (And probably to put pressure of Apple and others to keep the money flowing as fast as possible.)
It's impossible for law makers to ensure there are no loopholes when it comes to taxes.
Yes, they should change the laws. But guess WHO who pays the lawmakers to not change the law or to include these loopholes--- big corporations.
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Again, we know that most lawmakers are corrupt. These lawmakers are lobbied by these corporations to allow these corporations to keep doing this.
So the finger should be pointed at the corrupt lawmakers, no? By your own admission, it is this corruption that is allowing the loopholes.
"WE" know? Talk for yourself. If you believe that most lawmakers are corrupt (libel?), take action. Sue them, start a campaign, do something.. If they're guilty it will be free to do so, and get them to convicted.
Otherwise, please refrain from being an Internet crusader for which activism is writing sensational sentences on a forum.
Although I am a shareholder and would be affected by changes in Apple's tax avoidance schemes, I think it's time the American companies started acting honourably in Europe.
It's not just Apple, it's Google, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Microsoft, Starbucks, McDonalds, Disney, Facebook, eBay, Amazon... and Ireland isn't the only tax haven, Luxembourg and Netherlands have done some dodgy deals as well.
As an example, Amazon attributed $7.29bn of its 2013 income to the UK and yet paid just £4.2m in tax. In England we call this 'taking the pïss'.
None of this is technically illegal, however the British chancellor describes the activities as "morally repugnant" and has announced plans to introduce a diverted profits tax aimed at large companies that artificially shift income offshore.
If the matter is resolved in an equitable manner then American businesses will overall pay more tax, countries like Italy and the UK will collect an increased amount in corporation tax based on the volume of business carried out in their region, and countries like Ireland and Luxembourg will be losers.
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It's not just Apple, it's Google, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Microsoft, Starbucks, McDonalds, Disney, Facebook, eBay, Amazon... and Ireland isn't the only tax haven, Luxembourg and Netherlands have done some dodgy deals as well.
As an example, Amazon attributed $7.29bn of its 2013 income to the UK and yet paid just £4.2m in tax. In England we call this 'taking the pïss'.
None of this is technically illegal, however the British chancellor describes the activities as "morally repugnant" and has announced plans to introduce a diverted profits tax aimed at large companies that artificially shift income offshore.
If the matter is resolved in an equitable manner then American businesses will overall pay more tax, countries like Italy and the UK will collect an increased amount in corporation tax based on the volume of business carried out in their region, and countries like Ireland and Luxembourg will be losers.
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Apple argues that it's "one of the largest tax payers in the world and paid every euro of tax it owed wherever it did business,"... Well yeah if it is now the world's largest company that would make sense. But the real question is if they're paying their fair share. Nope! They will hire the best tax lawyers and experts to exploit every loophole possible. With all the effort they put into avoiding taxes, hopefully Italy and the numerous other countries will work just as hard to hold Apple accountable.
We all know we should pay to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but it isn't Apple's fault if Ceasar's laws leave legal loopholes.
It's not Italian's fault. It's the way most of the Europe (and Latin America) judge cases. There is a predisposition to absolve the defendant instead of comdemning... so there are several opportunities of appealing. Apple appearantly lost the opportunity of being absolved in several courts.
The spirit of laws doesn't exist and is a pipe dream. The fact that different lawyers interpret the same law differently should tell us that.
While it is easy to blame corporations, as others posted it is the law makers fault to introduce laws with loopholes, incentives to get business into their countries etc.etc.
But, any law is a no win situation.
For every bright lawmaker there are thousands of creative accountants and lawyers who will figure out how to "interpret" a law to their benefit.
The mob mentality of Apple is guilty or Apple is not guilty is misguided.
How about just waiting for the facts and outcome?
I predict the investigators find something (Nobody is perfect) via questionable interpretation of their laws (always lots of rubber for stretching thing into a certain direction) and Apple "settles" accordingly
to be done.
OK, it's another story about Apple getting caught doing something wrong. Bring out the uniformed loonies. How dare they pick on "us"!
Corruption exists all over the world. Of course, richer countries can steal more from taxpayers without being noted.
So we should not blame corporations who lobby for these loopholes? Humans, by nature, are corrupt.
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Wait, are you saying that you yourself are not aware of the corruption that goes on behind closed government doors?
And how do you know people aren't doing anything. I'm not trying to be any crusader. I'm just a person with an opinion, like you are.
