iTunes 5?

[bipto]

2. If Apple did support wma drm, why would they have bothered putting up a store and ripping all their music into AAC?

OK, once again, allowing iTunes and the iPod to play WMA does not mean Apple is ditching AAC. The two are not attached.

Apple has made a stance against wma. If Microsoft wins this file format for distributing and the playing of music, we as consumers are screwed. Why in the world would you want one company telling you how and when you can play your music? Apple is trying to fight this.

What? Apple is indeed telling me when and how to play my music. Everything I buy from iTMS has DRM built in (three Macs, burn limit of playlists, etc.). Apple is not fighting DRM. They are trying to sell a more reasonable set of DRM restrictions. iTMS (and all the other music stores, for that matter) whould not exist without DRM. iTMS exists to sell iPods. Therefore, the iPod's continued success and growth is tied to some kind of DRM.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Stella
The point is MP4 is industrial standard.

WMA is not.

WMA will **** consumes over in a few years time.

MP4 will not.

WMA == *short term* gain.

MP4 is for long term.

Except that is how companies do not work.

Short sightedness.

I don't think anyone is denying that MS will most likely screw everyone over in the long run. I mean it is MS after all. That's their "thing". But they have gained such a foothold in the device market that not supporting them would be as bad AS supporting them. As I had mentioned before Apple could be a bit tricky with iTunes for Windows and do most of the conversion on the app itself instead of supporting WMA on the iPod. So say you have 3GB of WMA. iTunes could convert them over to AAC for the user as an option or do on the fly conversion. There are a number of ways of nudging users over to AAC. Apple needs to act like Microsoft in this regard. Support WMA but do it in a way that benefits Apple and AAC not Microsoft and WMA.

 

[chickengrease16]

a remote? that would make this:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3104/newremote.html

become more and more of a reality! no no no!

 

[pjmurphy77]

Originally posted by oskich
Bluetooth support for iPod is a good idea...

Imagine a wireless LCD-remote control showing the current playing song

Sony Ericsson recently launched this - Bluetooth, backlit screen with caller-id and other info, wireless headphone

I think a similar form factor would be great (stereo headphones needed though)
HBH-200 specifications

The HBH-200 Bluetooth™ Headset is a unique handsfree with display and phone calling functions. On incoming calls, the display shows who’s calling. You can hear the ring tone in the earpiece. The HBH-200 clips onto your clothing and can also be hung on a lanyard.

The headset supports the Bluetooth™ Headset & Handsfree profiles, and works with all Sony Ericsson Bluetooth™ phones as well as most other Bluetooth™ phones on the market.

 

[bertagert]

Originally posted by bipto
OK, once again, allowing iTunes and the iPod to play WMA does not mean Apple is ditching AAC. The two are not attached.

No they are not, but allowing it would make it so you could buy from one of the other stores (which isn't a bad thing when looking at competition) but it will slowly erode the need for AAC. Not having AAC means WMA wins and becomes the standard.

What? Apple is indeed telling me when and how to play my music. Everything I buy from iTMS has DRM built in (three Macs, burn limit of playlists, etc.). Apple is not fighting DRM. They are trying to sell a more reasonable set of DRM restrictions. iTMS (and all the other music stores, for that matter) whould not exist without DRM. iTMS exists to sell iPods. Therefore, the iPod's continued success and growth is tied to some kind of DRM.

Yes Apple's AAC does have restrictions. However, AAC is not owned by one company where WMA is. Lets say all devices only played WMA files. Miscrosoft could implement the same restrictiions it does now. But, knowing Microsoft, they will do something completely different. Something you would not like.

Look at it another way. If WMA is the standard. Guess who gets to charge for WMA use? Microsoft. If it's a monopoly, guess how much your music files will up in cost? You see, you don't want Microsoft to have control over the file formats. It's a really, really bad thing. This is what you guys are not looking at.

Stop looking a few days down the road, look ten years down the road and you'll be able to see the big picture. If MS wins this, the big picture won't look to good.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

iPod capable of WMA already

The iPod uses a PortalPlayer PP5002 'CPU' (dual-ARM package) which natively supports playback of WMA, including Microsoft DRM. Apple would be stupid to not support it - the work is already done and potential customers already own content in this format. Of course, wInTunes isn't going to encode to WMA, but it has to allow use of WMA.

Also interesting is that the PortalPlayer supports realtime encoding of MP3 and ACELP.NET. Of course you have to get the audio in somehow, but that's why they use a Wolfson Microelectronics WM8731L which has a nice A/D converter. I'm sure Apple isn't going to support the .NET encoder, but MP3 recording is ready to go, just waiting for a firewire microphone interface. Like, say, an iSight (raise your hand if you just said, "ohh..., that's why the iSight doesn't do DV").

The PortalPlayer is also programmable. They have a v.92 softmodem for the PP, so an MPEG-4 video decoder isn't entirely out of the question.

This post brought to you by a screwdriver and Google.

 

[WM.]

Re: Re: Re: playback of movies

Originally posted by boobers
No, the disk spins fast enough to watch it on any old monitor.
So it is capable of playback.
i don't know if the pod's processor is fast enough to capture and compress mpeg4 though.

That's the whole point. Of course the disk is plenty fast enough to get some kind of video off it. The question is whether or not the PortalPlayer processor can actually decode video (for display on the built-in screen). And somehow, I doubt that it can, even if it is programmable.

WM

 

[bipto]

[Stop looking a few days down the road, look ten years down the road and you'll be able to see the big picture. If MS wins this, the big picture won't look to good.

I'm not saying that WMA isn't a Bad Thing. I'm just trying to look at it from the standpoint of what's best for Apple and their iPod. If they choose not to support WMA then I believe the iPod's marketshare would eventually wither away. Every other music service is using a music format that the iPod currently does not support. It's like puting out a CD player that only plays once kind of CD available from only one source. I know I wouldn't buy that...

If outstanding industrial design and an elegant user interface were enough to counteract an entire industry arrayed against you, then the Mac would have a 95% marketshare and Microsoft would still be run out of a strip mall.

Finally, here's something that may make the entire argument moot. Buried deep within Napster's Terms is this little tidbit:

If you are using the version of the Service that is accessible from Microsoft Corporation's Windows Media Player 9 Series, you will only be able to burn or transfer Purchased Tracks using the Windows Media Player.

If this is true (and not something that can be worked around by Apple), then whether or not the iPod supports WMA is besides the point.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

Re: Re: Re: Re: playback of movies

Originally posted by WM.
That's the whole point. Of course the disk is plenty fast enough to get some kind of video off it. The question is whether or not the PortalPlayer processor can actually decode video (for display on the built-in screen). And somehow, I doubt that it can, even if it is programmable.
WM

You're forgetting that there are already cell phones on the market with a single, slower CPU than the iPod (2 at that) that can decode MPEG4 video.

Here's ARM's page on the topic:
http://www.arm.com/armtech.nsf/html/Video_Comp?OpenDocument&style=IP_Solutions

They quote 11MHz necessary for MPEG4 video decode. They don't mention if that applies to the ARM or the StrongARM, but the StrongARM is no more than twice as fast as the ARM per clock, call it 4x if you want, it's still only half of one of the iPod's CPU's.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by frozenstar
The theoretical peak data rate of Bluetooth v1.1 is 1 mbps. The real-world sustained data rate is about 150-200 kbps. Clearly, that's more than enough to stream a 128 kbps AAC file. If necessary, iTunes can even re-encode higher bandwidth files on the fly.

That would involve the headphones being able to decode AAC, in which case, the main question is "what the hell" because the iPod is supposed to be your AAC decoder.

No, Bluetooth headphones wouldn't work. Get over it.

 

[WM.]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: playback of movies

Originally posted by ClimbingTheLog
You're forgetting that there are already cell phones on the market with a single, slower CPU than the iPod (2 at that) that can decode MPEG4 video.

Here's ARM's page on the topic:
http://www.arm.com/armtech.nsf/html/Video_Comp?OpenDocument&style=IP_Solutions

They quote 11MHz necessary for MPEG4 video decode. They don't mention if that applies to the ARM or the StrongARM, but the StrongARM is no more than twice as fast as the ARM per clock, call it 4x if you want, it's still only half of one of the iPod's CPU's.

Whoops, caught me with my pants down!

The stuff at that link is quite a ways over my head, but nonetheless I really appreciate the info. Somehow I still don't think we'll see VoiP (Video on iPod, not to be confused with VoIP--Voice over IP) anytime soon. At least, not with the existing hardware.

I probably shouldn't've tossed in that bit at the end about the processor; my main point to boobers was that the hard drive was irrelevant to the discussion.

Thanks again
WM

P.S. Phil is right about Bluetooth 'phones.

 

[ebow]

I know everyone's enthralled with the prospect that support for WMA (very likely playback only) means giving in to M$ or abandoning AAC (get real), but...

What do people think of the "listener loans"? To me they sound like a setup where you can download a short-lived music file that expires after some amount of time, say 1 week. Of course, the economics of that don't make much sense: why would you pay $0.33 (or any other amount) for a short-lived file when you only have to pay $0.99 for a permanent file... So I'm probably way off, but I haven't read any other thoughts on the matter.

 

[solid]

AAC players

Here you go:

http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com...s~KW-AAC~kworg-AAC~linkin_id-3012706~DMT-5~VK

 

[crainial77]

ok, i own a PeeCee. but i have NO WMA files. they don't have anything that mp3 or aac, or mp3pro don't have (bad english oh well). wma would take profits away, and besides, only goons would use wma on a regular basis.













go ahead, just try to find a wma song for (ahem) download on kazaa...

 

[Booga]

Originally posted by Lancetx
I would be shocked, stunned and disappointed if this was the case. I guess we'll all find out in one week, but I would put the odds at closer to 10% than 40% of this being the case.

What, do people WANT iTunes, and eventually the iPod to fail? Of course it should play WMA, and soon! Don't use the feature if you don't want, but Apple is in the business of selling stuff, not of playing ideological games. IMHO, it should support every file format they can get their hands on, from RealPlayer to WMA to whatever. Let other people sort out who wins the audio format wars, and let Apple make a little cash for once without all the self-righteousness, please.

 

[trusso]

WMA support is good for Apple

Originally posted by Stella
WMA support

Please, No.

I don't see how WMA support would hurt Apple. If many Windows users have WMA music files, it would be stupid for Apple not to support it with iTunes for Windows.

 

[iDave]

My prediction: iTunes 5 (or whatever) for Windows and the iPod will play WMA files. iTunes will not encode to WMA, nor will Apple sell WMA files at the iTMS. So, if you're a wintel user and you choose to use iTunes as your sole music player, you can play your old music files but any new music you buy via iTunes will be AAC. Simple enough.

iTunes is so good, and superior to web based music buying that AAC will do very well as long as Apple can get wintel people to use the software. If they use it they'll like it and WMA will become a thing of the past (hopefully).

One more point: if you have an iPod, obviously iTunes will be the software of choice, further influencing the adoption of AAC, whether you encode from CDs or buy music online.

 

[LegionCSUF]

iTunes support of WMA DOES NOT MEAN iTunes Music Store support of WMA!

Geez, is that so impossibly hard to understand?

Any decent music app needs to support PLAYBACK of as many in-use formats as possible. Not only are we talking music ripped to WMA format, but streaming radio in WM formats as well.

Do you want to force the music listener that wants to listen to something in WMA format to have to use a different app? That's a good way to get someone to dump iTunes and use something else. Not smart, especially in iTunes's foray into the world of Windows.

 

[ryaxnb]

Can use please stop your WMA blab?!? It's not the only thing in iTunes 5 and iTMS 2.

 

[iDave]

Originally posted by ryaxnb
Can use please stop your WMA blab?!? It's not the only thing in iTunes 5 and iTMS 2.

Perhaps you'd like to say something about the other things then?

 

[TheFish]

i think they should encorperate a seperate section where you could organize any video files you have.

 

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by TheFish
i think they should encorperate a seperate section where you could organize any video files you have.

Got a big porn stash there, do ya?

 

[OwlBoy]

Erm

About the phones having smaller prossesors and being able to play back mpeg4...

Thats not the qquality I would want to show on my TV.......

We need 640x480 with a good sized bitrate to actually have it be watchable imho.

-Owl

 

[boobers]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: playback of movies

Originally posted by WM.

I probably shouldn't've tossed in that bit at the end about the processor; my main point to boobers was that the hard drive was irrelevant to the discussion.

I was referring to a media dock not the ipod as it currently is.
i don't want to watch anything on a 1.5" screen anyways. But to be able to record it and take it to do a presentation or watch something at a friends house..portable Tivo!
So the HD spins fast enough and the CPU can play them but is it fast enough to capture and compress Mpg4?

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by LegionCSUF
Got a big porn stash there, do ya?

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