iPad Pro John Gruber’s iPad Pro review: A Lexus instead of a Toyota

[Rogifan]

He is entitled to his own opinion and, in fact, everything he wrote in that review seems logical to me and makes sense.

iPad is its own thing, not a Mac.

People like Jason Snell and Federico Viticci aren’t saying the iPad needs to become a Mac. I don’t agree with those who think touch should come to the Mac. I think Apple’s touchscreen laptop should be the iPad Pro. And I’d be fine if certain features only activated when the iPad was connected to a keyboard or even having them be off by default an enabled via settings. Let the iPad be basic and simple for the majority who use it that way but offer more complexity/features for those who want/need it.

 

[aevan]

People like Jason Snell and Federico Viticci aren’t saying the iPad needs to become a Mac. I don’t agree with those who think touch should come to the Mac. I think Apple’s touchscreen laptop should be the iPad Pro. And I’d be fine if certain features only activated when the iPad was connected to a keyboard or even having them be off by default an enabled via settings. Let the iPad be basic and simple for the majority who use it that way but offer more complexity/features for those who want/need it.

I think Gruber would agree with both Snell and Viticci. He wasn't negating what they are criticizing.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

My mom loves her iPad. She has no clue what iOS or iPadOS are.

Even better! Those people that love their iPads have no idea what a filesystem or an exFAT or a macOS Preview is, they just use the device that they love. If that massive number of folks ever start caring about those things, I’m sure Apple will be right on top of it.

 

[thadoggfather]

My mom loves her iPad. She has no clue what iOS or iPadOS are.

did she pay well into the 4 digits for it though? And if she did would she love it as much as she does now?

 

[Rogifan]

did she pay well into the 4 digits for it though? And if she did would she love it as much as she does now?

No. Of course I think the iPad can and should cater to a wide range of users. Keeping it simple for casual users doesn’t mean it can’t be more featured for pro/power users. An iPad Pro attached to a keyboard can work differently than an iPad mini or base iPad with no keyboard.

 

[rui no onna]

did she pay well into the 4 digits for it though? And if she did would she love it as much as she does now?

My aunt loves her iPad and yes, she did pay 4 figures for it.

She dropped/broke her 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 in the morning and immediately went to Best Buy within 2 hours. The Best Buy rep managed to sales talk her into getting the 2020 iPad Pro 12.9 256GB cellular with AppleCare+. 🤦‍♀️ I think that was just like 4-5 weeks before M1 iPad Pro keynote.

 

[iPadified]

did she pay well into the 4 digits for it though? And if she did would she love it as much as she does now?

The value of a device is completely individual. There was a report that Apple has ordered 8.5 million OLED screens suggesting that there are lots of people who find value in expensive iPads as they are now. Who has the right to tell them otherwise? Some tech bloggers?

No. Of course I think the iPad can and should cater to a wide range of users. Keeping it simple for casual users doesn’t mean it can’t be more featured for pro/power users. An iPad Pro attached to a keyboard can work differently than an iPad mini or base iPad with no keyboard.

Do you have an idea how many would be interested in complex device? Having two modes is to ask for trouble in a straight forward device designed to be easy to use for the non technical people. Why only the Pro? M1/M2 has the capacity for MacOS so a complex mode should apply to all Mx iPad. It rapidly gets messy which is exactly the opposite of what an iPad should be.

 

[Rogifan]

The value of a device is completely individual. There was a report that Apple has ordered 8.5 million OLED screens suggesting that there are lots of people who find value in expensive iPads as they are now. Who has the right to tell them otherwise? Some tech bloggers?

Do you have an idea how many would be interested in complex device? Having two modes is to ask for trouble in a straight forward device designed to be easy to use for the non technical people. Why only the Pro? M1/M2 has the capacity for MacOS so a complex mode should apply to all Mx iPad. It rapidly gets messy which is exactly the opposite of what an iPad should be.

I don’t think it would get messy if it’s something you toggle on in settings, or it only gets activated when the iPad is attached to a keyboard. It could apply only to M-series iPads. I’m not saying it would be easy to implement and I’m sure the first few iterations would be a bit messy but I think long term it’s where Apple should go. The iPad Pro/Air should be Apple’s touch laptop. At least with iPad Apple would be starting with a touch-first OS unlike Microsoft and Windows.

 

[rui no onna]

Do you have an idea how many would be interested in complex device? Having two modes is to ask for trouble in a straight forward device designed to be easy to use for the non technical people. Why only the Pro? M1/M2 has the capacity for MacOS so a complex mode should apply to all Mx iPad. It rapidly gets messy which is exactly the opposite of what an iPad should be.

I think it's fine as long as it's optional. Either virtual machine or dual boot that the user has to choose to install.

I certainly wouldn't want the extra bloat on a 128GB M1/M2 iPad Pro (what I'm buying for my parents).

 

[Rogifan]

I think it's fine as long as it's optional. Either virtual machine or dual boot that the user has to choose to install.

I certainly wouldn't want the extra bloat on a 128GB iPad Pro (what I'm buying for my parents).

I’m pretty sure Stage Manager is off by default (I don’t use it because it doesn’t work with Split View) so I would think they could make them optional. Unless it’s something that would benefit everyone and wouldn’t cause confusion or complexity for casual users.

 

[rui no onna]

I’m pretty sure Stage Manager is off by default (I don’t use it because it doesn’t work with Split View) so I would think they could make them optional. Unless it’s something that would benefit everyone and wouldn’t cause confusion or complexity for casual users.

I imagine such a feature would have significant storage requirements though.

Honestly, I don't want it baked in to iPadOS but rather as a separate module to install for those who want it.

P.S.
I always disable Split View for my parents but iirc, you couldn't disable it on iPadOS 15-16. Thankfully, the option to disable it is back on 17.

 

[vi2867]

I started reading Gruber’s iPad review and noticed it was the same as everyone else. Great hardware, but the OS is underwhelming. For some reason the reviews think the iPad should replace the Mac. It is not meant to replace the Mac. Products evolve and the iPad it is different. It is not for everyone.

 

[Rogifan]

I started reading Gruber’s iPad review and noticed it was the same as everyone else. Great hardware, but the OS is underwhelming. For some reason the reviews think the iPad should replace the Mac. It is not meant to replace the Mac. Products evolve and the iPad it is different. It is not for everyone.

Huh? Gruber’s review was the opposite.

 

[cardfan]

Let’s be real here… it is about the money. It’s a reason Apple is in the position they are in… I can respect they want users to buy two devices instead of one. It is what it is. But given Apple have crazy amount of resources to throw at a problem… leads me to believe they are alright with the status quo.

And I think any sane individual would do the same if they were in Apple situation, the folks asking for this “macOS on an iPad” has nothing to lose (it won’t affect their revenue)… it would be Apple taking the loss.

You’re assuming Apple would take a loss. IMO. They would increase revenue. iPad Pro only. Maybe even restricted to 1-2tb ones.

 

[Ludatyk]

You’re assuming Apple would take a loss. IMO. They would increase revenue. iPad Pro only. Maybe even restricted to 1-2tb ones.

Well, if Apple lose the potential to sell a consumer over two devices instead of one... its not a stretch to assume their profits will take a hit. Especially when both devices sell incredibly well.

Unless they charge an outrageously amount of money to combat the possible loss then criticism of the cost will take place.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Well, if Apple lose the potential to sell a consumer over two devices instead of one... its not a stretch to assume their profits will take a hit. Especially when both devices sell incredibly well.

Unless they charge an outrageously amount of money to combat the possible loss then criticism of the cost will take place.

The real risk is eventual disruption from something or someone doing the tasks better, more affordably, differently, in a way customers prefer, etc

"Disrupt yourself, or someone else will"

iPod Mini was a good example

 

[Sami13496]

People who need mac, why don’t you just buy a mac instead of trying to make iPad more Mac like “iPad Pro is great but it needs a keyboard, trackpad and macOS”. Yes… that’s a Mac, you can buy them right now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

People who need mac, why don’t you just buy a mac instead of trying to make iPad more Mac like “iPad Pro is great but it needs a keyboard, trackpad and macOS”. Yes… that’s a Mac, you can buy them right now.

The one thing that would help many folks on this is Apple finally adding a cellular option the MacBooks

I really really love that now that I've become used to it on my iPad Mini 5 w/ Cellular

Tethering sucks in comparison

 

[Ludatyk]

The real risk is eventual disruption from something or someone doing the tasks better, more affordably, differently, in a way customers prefer, etc

"Disrupt yourself, or someone else will"

iPod Mini was a good example

Good point. But in this current stage, who has the potential of doing so... Google has Chromebook and a Google tablet, I don't see the engagement to combine those two. Microsoft is doing Windows 11 and getting heavily involved with Arm.. using Snapdragon chips.

And as much as I like Windows 11... it falls short when comparing it to iPadOS as a tablet interface. And it doesn't have the wealth of tablet optimized apps that iPad has... I don't see how any company can disrupt it (in terms of building the best hardware and software).

I'd like to add, when the industry is leaning heavily to pursuing the best AI chatbot and wearable tech (from AR/VR glasses) ... I don't think creating some type of disruption in the context of what you are suggesting is on their radar.

 

[G5isAlive]

And as much as I like Windows 11... it falls short when comparing it to iPadOS as a tablet interface. And it doesn't have the wealth of tablet optimized apps that iPad has... I don't see how any company can disrupt it (in terms of building the best hardware and software).

So if we agree the iPadOS is a different paradigm than MacOS... and since you seem to like the iPad optimized Apps... besides the file system (and I know thats a HUGE besides), what is it you really are clamoring for on an iPad that the OS can provide (its up to vendors to improve their apps)? A better windowing system so you can easily manipulate multiple App windows? You don't think even the 13 inch iPad's screen is a tad restrictive for that? Or do you just want to be able to hook it to an external screen to get all that?

Mmmm where have we heard of a way of showing multiple windows of iPad like Apps but not be limited by a small screen size?

Sounds familiar...

An Apple product for multiple resizable windows that is not a Mac and is 'touch' orientated?

I am going to bring on a world of hate for saying this, Apple's answer may not be a better iPad, or a touch screen Mac, it may be the Apple Vision Pro.

Yep, I know, the AVP is not for today, but tomorrow, but Apple is always looking ahead. They have been sticking to the position for over a decade that the Mac will not go touch screen, and that the iPad will remain a touch paradigm optimized for ease of use, not for workflow speed. I don't believe it's for lack of trying. I do believe they have ported MacOS to the iPad in the back labs. And I know the haters like to say its all about greed, but Apple's devotion to the user experience remains in ever product they release, so I have to believe for whatever reason they have tried to merge the paradigms and found the experience wanting. So they have incorporated things into the iPad, like keyboard support and a file system, but I just dont think they are really going to shake up the current paradigm. I think they tried to do that with the AVP. And they clearly have some work left to do.

I am not expecting much of a paradigm shift at the June conference, except for how AI will be better incorporated. and I dont hear anyone here screaming for that (besides a better Siri).

 

[G5isAlive]

The one thing that would help many folks on this is Apple finally adding a cellular option the MacBooks

I really really love that now that I've become used to it on my iPad Mini 5 w/ Cellular

Tethering sucks in comparison

How many folks is 'many?' Where is the study that suggests cellular is a feature that a significant portion (>10%) of Apple Mac users want? Apple collects that data and if they saw a market they would service it. They tend to design for the masses, not the fringes. With the notable exception they still haven't figure out how to supply the masses with better gaming.

I won't speak for the masses, but the number of times I have had my laptop in a place without wifi where I didn't have the files I needed and hence had a need for an internet connection is maybe 2 or 3 times a year. And then I tether, which I find to be as easy to use as any other wifi provider, it's as simple as selecting my iPhone under the connection menu. Why do you find tethering sucks? And since I rarely have a need for cellular with my laptop, I am happy not to pay for it. But I am happy in the Apple ecosystem, maybe its hard if you mix platforms?

Likewise I have limited need for it with my iPads. I did buy one it once with it, but thats when I was doing a lot of driving and liked the GPS in it. So there is one use case. Maps. But I wouldn't do that with my MBA. What is the use case that has you without wifi so much?

 

[Ludatyk]

So if we agree the iPadOS is a different paradigm than MacOS... and since you seem to like the iPad optimized Apps... besides the file system (and I know thats a HUGE besides), what is it you really are clamoring for on an iPad that the OS can provide (its up to vendors to improve their apps)? A better windowing system so you can easily manipulate multiple App windows? You don't think even the 13 inch iPad's screen is a tad restrictive for that? Or do you just want to be able to hook it to an external screen to get all that?

I wanted more what was rumored from the iPadOS 17 features that didn't get announced.

• Stream Multiple audio/vid sources at once with Stage Manager on.
• Resizable dock (in external display only)
• Sleep iPad display; external display stays on.

And I'd like to add, unlock the ability to use more than 4 apps when hooked to an external display... because it's understandable that managing multiple windows on a 11/13 inch screen can appear restrictive. And I've been a Stage Manager defender upon launch... so I like the windowing system that was introduced, but like any software/features it could use some improvements.

I am going to bring on a world of hate for saying this, Apple's answer may not be a better iPad, or a touch screen Mac, it may be the Apple Vision Pro.

And you could possibly be right. I've stated that is where the industry is heading... I personally am not interesting in buying the Apple Vision Pro over an iPad Pro (no shade to those who do).

I think there is a world where Vision Pro and iPad Pro exist in the future... same goes with the Mac. One can be used spatially, one specializes in touch and the other mouse/keyboard input.

 

[G5isAlive]

I wanted more what was rumored from the iPadOS 17 features that didn't get announced.

• Stream Multiple audio/vid sources at once with Stage Manager on.
• Resizable dock (in external display only)
• Sleep iPad display; external display stays on.

And I'd like to add, unlock the ability to use more than 4 apps when hooked to an external display... because it's understandable that managing multiple windows on a 11/13 inch screen can appear restrictive.

Thank you, this is much more useful than those that just say 'it can be better.' Devil is always in the details, and now that I know what it is you are asking for, I agree with you. If Apple is going to bring on the added 'complexity' of stage manager and hooking to an external device, it should accept these features are natural fits. I havent really explored stage manager but actually had planned to with my M4 iPad 12.9, and at the very least Apple should be able to sleep the display.

And you could possibly be right. I've stated that is where the industry is heading... I personally am not interesting in buying the Apple Vision Pro over an iPad Pro (no shade to those who do).

No shade taken, I bought it knowing it was just the start of something and that it probably wont be ready for prime time until version 3 or 4. Totally get why many would not want to spend that kind of money on it until it was more refined. But I do enjoy mine, mostly just exploring the limits of what can be done with spatial computing.

I think there is a world where Vision Pro and iPad Pro exist in the future... same goes with the Mac. One can be used spatially, one specializes in touch and the other mouse/keyboard input.

I think the iPad is safe until the AVP becomes more like a pair of sun glasses one puts on. Until it does, there are going to be people that object to anything bigger and heavier. I will say though, in terms of how I spend my device time, the AVP has eaten more into my iPad time than any other category versus say the phone (which oddly I use mainly for calls and pictures lol) and Mac. It is NOT a Mac replacement for me. For content consumption (which I tend to use the iPad for, plus light email use) I am using the AVP more and more. But I don't have any issue with wearing it for hours and hours. I know I am an anomaly.

In terms of survival I do wonder about the place of general computers (like the Mac or PC) with most people. I think there will be a time when a portable device really is the central brain for it all, just depends on the accessories, and a table it not a bad form factor for that. But again, thats years away. I get people want that now and are frustrated with Apple for not providing that.

 

[Rogifan]

This is a longer read but Federico Viticci has a list of his issues with iPadOS.

• Missing Apps
• Not-So-Desktop-Class Apps
• Files: A Slow, Unreliable File Manager
• Audio Limitations
• Multitasking: A Fractured Mess
• Spotlight
• Lack of Background Processes and System-Wide Utilities
  • To Be Fixed Later This Year, But Only for Some
• Inefficiency by a Thousand Cuts
• The Need for Change

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right

Let me cut to the chase: sadly, I don’t have a new iPad Pro to review today on MacStories. I was able to try one in London last week, and, as I wrote, I came away impressed with the hardware. However, I didn’t get a chance to use a new iPad Pro over the past

www.macstories.net

And this is from Steven Troughton-Smith:

The iPad Pro Manifesto (2024 Edition)

www.highcaffeinecontent.com

 

[turbineseaplane]

This is a longer read but Federico Viticci has a list of his issues with iPadOS.

• Missing Apps
• Not-So-Desktop-Class Apps
• Files: A Slow, Unreliable File Manager
• Audio Limitations
• Multitasking: A Fractured Mess
• Spotlight
• Lack of Background Processes and System-Wide Utilities
  • To Be Fixed Later This Year, But Only for Some
• Inefficiency by a Thousand Cuts
• The Need for Change

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right

Let me cut to the chase: sadly, I don’t have a new iPad Pro to review today on MacStories. I was able to try one in London last week, and, as I wrote, I came away impressed with the hardware. However, I didn’t get a chance to use a new iPad Pro over the past

www.macstories.net

And this is from Steven Troughton-Smith:

The iPad Pro Manifesto (2024 Edition)

www.highcaffeinecontent.com

Sure!
Post another article from a classic iPad HATER!!..

(sees it's Federico ... perhaps the most notable iPad evangelist out there)

Oh....Wait... 😬

Apple needs to take some notes