iPad Pro John Gruber’s iPad Pro review: A Lexus instead of a Toyota

[Ludatyk]

Thank you, this is much more useful than those that just say 'it can be better.' Devil is always in the details, and now that I know what it is you are asking for, I agree with you.

Trust me, I know how it is. And being realistic about what I want out of iPadOS... because some folks request a feature that's already available on it. However, since it doesn't perform exactly like it is on macOS... then it's dismissed.

Take for instance, Federico calling for apps like Calculator, TextEdit and Preview... all these features exist on iPadOS. The user can use spotlight for calculation or better yet, go find an app. And with TextEdit, there is notes app available to be used or as always go find an app. And asking for Preview is a headscratcher, because whenever I download or transfer something to the Files app... it will open directly in the Files app.

He called for Audio Limitations and that's a valid point, because it's an issue within iPadOS. And he's always been against Stage Manager... I believe he wants a more grid like multitasking system. Basically, Splitview enhanced instead of 2 apps automatically placed... he desires a 3 or 4 window/app in a grid. Which is something Stage Manager is capable of doing, but he doesn't like the execution.

I havent really explored stage manager but actually had planned to with my M4 iPad 12.9, and at the very least Apple should be able to sleep the display.

Stage Manager had a bumpy start, but Apple made improvements as I expected. I think people expected a finished and flawless feature when it announced, when this was new territory for iPadOS (macOS had a resize and mulitwindowing system already) ...

I think the iPad is safe until the AVP becomes more like a pair of sun glasses one puts on. Until it does, there are going to be people that object to anything bigger and heavier. I will say though, in terms of how I spend my device time, the AVP has eaten more into my iPad time than any other category, phone (which oddly I use mainly for calls and pictures lol) and Mac. For content consumption (which I tend to use the iPad for, plus light email use) I am using the AVP more and more. But I don't have any issue with wearing it for hours and hours. I know I am an anomaly.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of putting on glasses and it displays information (definitely futuristic). And I know it would be awesome enjoying movies and shows from it... but I guess I'm just not there yet.

 

[Rogifan]

Sure!
Post another article from a classic iPad HATER!!..

(sees it's Federico ... perhaps the most notable iPad evangelist out there)

Oh....Wait... 😬

Apple needs to take some notes

Yes, with the exception of this post about John Gruber, the only people I’ve ever referenced/linked to regarding iPadOS are people who use the iPad a lot for productivity and would love for it to be their main computer. They actually take time to thoughtfully explain the pain points they have and how iPadOS can be better. They’re not like, say, Joanna Stern at the WSJ just flippantly saying stick macOS on it. Also I’m not arguing Federico has all the answers. I just don’t like when people are dismissive or misrepresent his argument (e.g. he just wants macOS on an iPad).

It’s looking like these new ARM based Windows PCs could give iPad and Mac a run for their money. Of course it will all depend on Windows software compatibility. I’ll be curious to see what Apple does. There was a Dell leak claiming one of their laptops would get 29 hours battery life.

Dell leak details next-gen Windows on Arm chips, 29-hour laptops, and more

The summer of Windows on Arm is nearly upon us.

www.theverge.com

 

[turbineseaplane]

Yes, with the exception of this post about John Gruber, the only people I’ve ever referenced/linked to regarding iPadOS are people who use the iPad a lot for productivity and would love for it to be their main computer. They actually take time to thoughtfully explain the pain points they have and how iPadOS can be better. They’re not like, say, Joanna Stern at the WSJ just flippantly saying stick macOS on it. Also I’m not arguing Federico has all the answers. I just don’t like when people are dismissive or misrepresent his argument (e.g. he just wants macOS on an iPad).

It’s looking like these new ARM based Windows PCs could give iPad and Mac a run for their money. Of course it will all depend on Windows software compatibility. I’ll be curious to see what Apple does. There was a Dell leak claiming one of their laptops would get 29 hours battery life.

Dell leak details next-gen Windows on Arm chips, 29-hour laptops, and more

The summer of Windows on Arm is nearly upon us.

www.theverge.com

Anyone who makes a new Cellular capable iPad Mini size "something" is in the market for my money...Apple or otherwise

With what I do on my Mini, I just want a cellular OLED high refresh rate Mini sized tablet of most any kind

 

[Rogifan]

Good ATP podcast about this subject. Marco Arment brings up a good point about iPad Pro having a better screen and Apple choosing to to bring cellular to MacBooks. Casey Liss loves his iPad Pro and wishes it could be his do everything device. Hate to say it but I’m more convinced that Apple is artificially segmenting these products to force certain people to buy both. And it’s not enough people that their customer sat will take a hit but it is enough to impact their bottom line.

ATP 587: No Dots Are Going to Help Me — Accidental Tech Podcast

Three nerds discussing tech, Apple, programming, and loosely related matters.

atp.fm

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Did all the smart folks at Microsoft figure it out? After throwing lots of resources at the (alleged) problem, did the Surface devices set the computing world on fire?

Yeah, it seems like one of those things that, were it financially viable, it’d be everywhere. Google’s got a lock on mobile phones, I think if they thought copying Dex would be a winner, they’d do it. (From what I’ve read, the latest Dex has actually taken some steps backwards, so maybe Samsung questions it’s validity as well?)

 

[Rafterman]

If MacOS makes it to tablets, I think Macs and iPads will remain separate devices/OS's and Apple will create a third class of device, a MacBook tablet. Maybe something Surface Pro-like.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

People who need mac, why don’t you just buy a mac instead of trying to make iPad more Mac like “iPad Pro is great but it needs a keyboard, trackpad and macOS”. Yes… that’s a Mac, you can buy them right now.

The Mac form factor is just boring, though.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

According to Federico, Apple needs to take notes on the fact that the iPad is missing an app (Journal) that macOS is also missing… they also need to add an app with the name TextEdit because that’s the only thing folks can possibly edit text in, why would anyone think different? They also need to improve the “clarity” of PDF viewing in both Books and QuickLook.

So, just looking at that “missing” apps list, I think most people that are iPadOS first and have never used a Mac would simply head to the App Store to personalize their iPad, make what they want it to be. The App Store is that much of a pivotal function of using a iPad. That’s, I think, an interesting difference in mindset. Mac folks think, “It’s ALL gotta be ON there from the start or else I can’t get anything done!” iPad folks think, “Hm, I need a calculator, I bet there’s one on the App Store ooh, and it’s free! I need to edit some PDF’s, too… I’ll check out some reviews to see which one has the features I want. Might as well look for a journaling app while I’m at it” And, if what they find cost a few bucks, the iPad user is far more likely to pay for something they like.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Stage Manager had a bumpy start, but Apple made improvements as I expected. I think people expected a finished and flawless feature when it announced, when this was new territory for iPadOS (macOS had a resize and mulitwindowing system already) ...

While the first release of Stage Manager didn’t do it for me, the second one clicked. I enabled it and it’s been on ever since. And when I export a video from FCP, I don’t ignore the dialog box and switch away from the app.

 

[KPOM]

An Apple product for multiple resizable windows that is not a Mac and is 'touch' orientated?

I am going to bring on a world of hate for saying this, Apple's answer may not be a better iPad, or a touch screen Mac, it may be the Apple Vision Pro.

Yep, I know, the AVP is not for today, but tomorrow, but Apple is always looking ahead. They have been sticking to the position for over a decade that the Mac will not go touch screen, and that the iPad will remain a touch paradigm optimized for ease of use, not for workflow speed. I don't believe it's for lack of trying. I do believe they have ported MacOS to the iPad in the back labs.

Yes, it’s telling that AVP runs iPadOS apps but not macOS apps.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Good ATP podcast about this subject. Marco Arment brings up a good point about iPad Pro having a better screen and Apple choosing to to bring cellular to MacBooks. Casey Liss loves his iPad Pro and wishes it could be his do everything device. Hate to say it but I’m more convinced that Apple is artificially segmenting these products to force certain people to buy both. And it’s not enough people that their customer sat will take a hit but it is enough to impact their bottom line.

ATP 587: No Dots Are Going to Help Me — Accidental Tech Podcast

Three nerds discussing tech, Apple, programming, and loosely related matters.

atp.fm

I just listened to this on a walk and also agree.

Honestly, at this point, I wish we could get some parity on the MacBook and get those OLED screens and cellular over there and I would be happy.

As someone who uses an OLED high refresh rate TV as my display, I find most Mac screens to be pretty underwhelming

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I believe he wants a more grid like multitasking system. Basically, Splitview enhanced instead of 2 apps automatically placed... he desires a 3 or 4 window/app in a grid. Which is something Stage Manager is capable of doing, but he doesn't like the execution.

OH MAN! This is exactly what I want! No wasted space! No weird resizing handles that don't work universally!

 

[Ludatyk]

OH MAN! This is exactly what I want! No wasted space! No weird resizing handles that don't work universally!

And that's a tough call. Because I don't think having a grid-like experience is what majority users would want... the freedom to resize windows similar to a traditional desktop OS is what most would opt for (imo).

And Apple still have the pre-existing multitasking (SplitView/SlideOver) for users who want "no wasted space." At this point, I've stopped using SplitView/SlideOver... but I'm delighted they kept it. Because I can only imagine if Stage Manager completely replaced it... the number of complaints would have been massive!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yes, it’s telling that AVP runs iPadOS apps but not macOS apps.

Quite. Now, counting iOS, iPadOS and VisionOS, we have three post-Mac platforms built from the same locked down baseline.

 

[KPOM]

Quite. Now, counting iOS, iPadOS and VisionOS, we have three post-Mac platforms built from the same locked down baseline.

That’s the point. Apple likes having control over its platforms. MacOS is essentially an open platform. It will be interesting to see what happens in the EU with side loading.

 

[Rogifan]

I just listened to this on a walk and also agree.

Honestly, at this point, I wish we could get some parity on the MacBook and get those OLED screens and cellular over there and I would be happy.

As someone who uses an OLED high refresh rate TV as my display, I find most Mac screens to be pretty underwhelming

I will say I didn’t buy John Siracusa’s example of Final Cut rendering in the background while someone tries to play a video game and they get upset because the video game quality is bad. Not buying it. Anyone who is using Final Cut on an iPad is tech savvy enough to know how background rendering works and it’s highly unlikely they’d be trying to play a game while using Final Cut.

I am curious…are there any enhancements that have been made to iPadOS that have caused casual users confusion? As far as I know, Stage Manager is off by default. Are there other features that have degraded the experience for the casual, just using iPad as a consumption device, user?

 

[Rogifan]

And that's a tough call. Because I don't think having a grid-like experience is what majority users would want... the freedom to resize windows similar to a traditional desktop OS is what most would opt for (imo).

And Apple still have the pre-existing multitasking (SplitView/SlideOver) for users who want "no wasted space." At this point, I've stopped using SplitView/SlideOver... but I'm delighted they kept it. Because I can only imagine if Stage Manager completely replaced it... the number of complaints would have been massive!

I use Split View all the time. I never use Slide Over. I wonder how many casual users use either?

 

[KPOM]

I use Split View all the time. I never use Slide Over. I wonder how many casual users use either?

I always found Split View and Slide Over confusing. Stage Manager is a lot easier for me, particularly with a second display but even just with the iPad only. I use the iPad mostly for web browsing, email, Teams/Zoom calls, reading files, etc.

 

[Ludatyk]

I use Split View all the time. I never use Slide Over. I wonder how many casual users use either?

Your guess is as good as mine. But I do think casual iPad users overwhelming go with SplitView/SlideOver given the familiarity angle of it.

 

[G5isAlive]

That’s the point. Apple likes having control over its platforms. MacOS is essentially an open platform. It will be interesting to see what happens in the EU with side loading.

I agree with your observation just not sure what to conclude. Apple’s mantra from the beginning is close integration of hardware and software is a superior user experience and more protected privacy. Sure they benefit economically but i think I benefit from using their products so I am willing to accept their integration. I am not sure how many will take advantage of side loading.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I use Split View all the time. I never use Slide Over. I wonder how many casual users use either?

I use neither … sometimes some PiP

 

[rui no onna]

I use Split View all the time. I never use Slide Over. I wonder how many casual users use either?

That’s one of the things I disable on my parents’ iPads. It just confuses them when it suddenly activates.

I guess most folks I know tend to use iPads with just one fullscreen app at a time.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

And that's a tough call. Because I don't think having a grid-like experience is what majority users would want... the freedom to resize windows similar to a traditional desktop OS is what most would opt for (imo).

And Apple still have the pre-existing multitasking (SplitView/SlideOver) for users who want "no wasted space." At this point, I've stopped using SplitView/SlideOver... but I'm delighted they kept it. Because I can only imagine if Stage Manager completely replaced it... the number of complaints would have been massive!

Well, to be fair, I would have been happy with traditional desktop OS as well. In fact, I have been using my Surface Pro 9 again, and I like it alot. But I am old school. Both my kids (who are primarily iPad) would hate it LOL.

 

[Ludatyk]

Well, to be fair, I would have been happy with traditional desktop OS as well. In fact, I have been using my Surface Pro 9 again, and I like it alot. But I am old school. Both my kids (who are primarily iPad) would hate it LOL.

And if you are happy with the traditional desktop OS approach... then that's the whole purpose of Apple introducing Stage Manager instead of enhancing SplitView into more grids/windows.

I think Apple did the right thing, giving users the choice to continue using SplitView method for those who prefer that way of multitasking. And if users want more flexibility or a more traditional desktop experience (resizing apps and overlapping windows) then they can use that.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

And if you are happy with the traditional desktop OS approach... then that's the whole purpose of Apple introducing Stage Manager instead of enhancing SplitView into more grids/windows.

I think Apple did the right thing, giving users the choice to continue using SplitView method for those who prefer that way of multitasking. And if users want more flexibility or a more traditional desktop experience (resizing apps and overlapping windows) then they can use that.

No I think I must have misunderstood what you are saying. To me, the traditional desktop approach is not stage manager. It is what we have in Windows, Linux, and Mac. I love that.

Now, split view is what we have in iPadOS. Also fine for what it does.

The problem is that stage manager tries to split the middle and ends up doing neither well. Most of the people I know (aforementioned kids included) don't really multitask on their iPads beyond split view or a floating screen. In fact, they usually just use their iPhones as second screens when needed.

But I also am not exactly polling a bunch of iPad users beyond my few anecdotal stories.

And I do agree that continuing both approaches was smart.