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macdos

Suspended
Oct 15, 2017
604
969
Please post your sources so we can have a civilized conversation.

But let's go with your numbers:

Even with 1/3 of the population being infected (110M) that would put the current mortality rate at 0.58% (640k/110M). Even if we conservatively assume that all of those 110M come from the unvaxxed population (they don't - many of those infections were before the vaccine too).... that would still leave 46M unvaxxed people that haven't been infected ((330M - 174M vaxxed) - 110M).

At a 0.58% mortality rate that means 267,000 people will still die.

If all of them got the vaccine that would drop to 37,380 (edit: see my earlier source here saying the vaccines are still 86% effective at preventing hospitalization and death). To me - a jab in the arm is worth 230,000 American lives. Many of the 640k that already died would have also been saved if everyone would have gotten vaxxed as soon as they could.

You throw around 800,000 (more like 870,000 with the numbers above) like it's no big deal. Do you realize that that is more American deaths than all of the foreign wars we've ever fought _combined_? How angry were you that 13 soldiers died in Afghanistan last week? More than that have died from COVID too. How are you not enraged?
I think you are confusing me with someone else… I am definitely in the "enraged" camp.
 

jk73

macrumors 65816
Jul 19, 2012
1,316
1,284
I raced to my keyboard to reply to this comment before it expired. I hope I replied soon enough to not be considered pedantic.

This one definitely isn’t pedantic, since you didn’t attempt to refute anything.
 

jk73

macrumors 65816
Jul 19, 2012
1,316
1,284
So do you think government should regulate our diets too? Like NYC limiting soda sizes, etc? Sorry, but that is pure government overreach supported by people who want a nanny state.

No, I believe the government should kick obese people off the health plans that the rest of us have to pay for. Smokers and drug users, too.
 

jk73

macrumors 65816
Jul 19, 2012
1,316
1,284
I did not "backtrack"... I was showing that _even if_ the mortality rate were lower than the source I posted says it is... you would still be wrong. My own personal interpretation of the data is that the mortality rate is between 1%-2% for most of the developed world.

I showed multiple reliable sources that say that, at worst, the vaccines are still 86% effective at preventing hospitalization and death.

Using those two pieces of information it's easy to show that millions of lives can be saved by a vaccine mandate.

You saying "the 'experts' don't know the answers" is meaningless. Post a source. Post a number. Do literally _anything_ to support your position. Or admit that you are wrong.

Time to update your numbers:


65% and falling, and that’s among healthcare workers, not old people.
 

friedmud

macrumors 65816
Jul 11, 2008
1,415
1,265
Time to update your numbers:


65% and falling, and that’s among healthcare workers, not old people.

Thank you so much for deciding to cite some numbers! Now we can have a better conversation.

The 86% I've been using is for preventing _hospitalization_. I have been VERY clear about that. Here is my source again: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...ccine-protection-waning-against-infection-not

Your source lines up perfectly with my source. Both say that the effectiveness of the vaccine against _infection_ is falling. My source said 53% in nursing homes and 80% in the general population against _infection)_. Those numbers nicely bracket yours (65%) - so I think we can all agree that the effectiveness of the vaccines against infection has fallen in recent months.

However, my source states that the vaccines are still 86% effective at preventing hospitalization... and they have been holding strong in that area. That's the number I've been using to show just how important it (still) is for everyone to get vaccinated.

Thanks again for posting an argument backed up with data! It really does make having an intelligent conversation a lot easier.
 

IllinoisCorn

Suspended
Jan 15, 2021
1,217
1,652
Yeah, because it is "communist" only in name. You don't really see "common ownership" of "the means of production" in China, do you? Or the "absence of social classes"? Gini index is actually higher for China than for the US.

China is "communist" in the same sense that East Germany was "democratic" (German Democratic Republic), i.e. just a label. China left communism with Deng Xiaoping in 1980, and has since become a pragmatic state capitalist country with a solid foundation in confucianism.
Yeah, limiting consumers' video game time reeks of capitalism. Maybe there are no IAP in China?
 

macdos

Suspended
Oct 15, 2017
604
969
Yeah, limiting consumers' video game time reeks of capitalism. Maybe there are no IAP in China?
Capitalism is an economic system, and has nothing to do with how a government limits gaming.

Try to open a casino, and you'll see what I mean.
 

IllinoisCorn

Suspended
Jan 15, 2021
1,217
1,652
Capitalism is an economic system, and has nothing to do with how a government limits gaming.

Try to open a casino, and you'll see what I mean.
An economic system is nothing unless it is governed by enforceable law. The government creates the laws and enforces them.

My point is the Chinese government is not made up of capitalists, because this is not how capitalist governments govern their people.
 

Nicky G

macrumors 65816
Mar 24, 2002
1,148
1,284
Baltimore
That’s manufactured lies by the CIA. If, to this day, you still can’t see it through, you have a bigger problem to worry about.
Hello Chinese Intelligence! Get lost. Did the AI you've been training on all the stolen US data come up with the name WoodpeckerBaby? Or are you the AI?
 
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0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
An economic system is nothing unless it is governed by enforceable law. The government creates the laws and enforces them.

My point is the Chinese government is not made up of capitalists, because this is not how capitalist governments govern their people.

No government should be made up of capitalists. Are you mad?

Why do we have minimum wages, ObamaCare, affordable housing, maternity leaves, national holidays, national parks, public education, public police, public firefighters, etc.? Those are socialist policies. For Canada, there are Universal Healthcare, employment insurance, etc., which are very Socialist policies.

The Scandinavian nations are all socialists, and they are the happiest nations on earth. Modern China since the 1970s is also Socialist.

I don't know about you, but when I think Socialist, I don't have Marxist and Leninist Communism in my mind. I think about the Nordic nations and Singapore. I'm sure the Chinese people and the government too. They are smarter than that. They must know Communism Proper does not work, at least after the fall of the Soviets. I believe this has been the consensus in China's policies and Political Philosophy.

The companies are Capitalist, for sure, in all Western nations, and powerful Asian ones too, but governments, in any well-functioning society, must not be Capitalist, nor should the capitalists have any influence in the state.
 
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bb9

macrumors 6502
Apr 1, 2017
277
161
Apple's parental control is broken for anything accessed through a web browser.
Question:
Would it work if parents limit the websites a kid’s phone can have access to and for how hours in a day work?
 

MrTSolar

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2017
357
442
They should do that here.
"In other news, the US government passed a bill forbidding the use of social media on mobile devices, citing public safety risks from distracted driving and inattentive pedestrians, and privacy concerns that passersby are being photographed without consent through the use of so-called selfies. Business leaders applaud the bill, citing low productivity from employees "being paid to scroll Facebook." Anyone caught using a social media site or app on a smartphone or tablet will be fined and possibly face jail time."

Satire, but seriously. What if bans of this nature were applied to the "adults" of the US? I guess the rationalization is that China's move is OK because "it's for the children"?
 

jk73

macrumors 65816
Jul 19, 2012
1,316
1,284
I guess the rationalization is that China's move is OK because "it's for the children"?

That’s already the rationalization for requiring 13 years of school, minimum ages for booze and tobacco, etc., etc.
 

MrTSolar

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2017
357
442
That’s already the rationalization for requiring 13 years of school, minimum ages for booze and tobacco, etc., etc.
I'd also argue the schooling requirements, but I do agree with alcohol/tobacco age limits (although they're pointless for the most part). Play is important, and learning when enough is enough is important as well. It shouldn't be mandated by government (honestly, some games today take almost an hour just to get up and running, and you can't just stop in the middle of something without losing hours of work). Besides, watching my nephew really get into gaming right now, the problem isn't entirely the game (though I'd like for him to play something else). He spends every waking minute that he's not otherwise occupied on TikTok. That has to be way more damaging to him than playing the game, if for, at the very least, the game is interactive. Making him go for 2 minutes off the phone and just sit and wait is a challenge. The game, he gets tired of after a while, but that phone and TikTok, he just gets completely absorbed. I've fought and lost that battle a few times.

School, in particular high school, prepared me very little for the real world. The most valuable knowledge I got from high school was my Linux and Accounting classes. I learned Java as well, but that so far has been useless. I wrote a SQL script once since graduating. Middle School actually did more for me. I built things, learned how to cook things I'll never eat, got my hunter safety class, learned to sew by hand (all things my parents taught me as well, but in slightly different ways), and found the fastest ways to open a combination lock. Most of what is taught in high school, IMO, should be part of specialized studies after graduation because most of it is NOT used in daily life.

The teachers used to always say, "You won't always have a calculator on you". Ha, showed them.

There simply is no substitute for good parenting, no matter what large companies or governments want us to think. Don't teach your kids what to think, show them HOW to think.
 
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