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Upgrader

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2014
345
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My guess is that many people who complain about the price are hobbiest or people who can’t afford/don’t need pricier configuration(no matter if they come from Apple, HP or wathever).
If you invest about 15000$ you can get a very good configuration(compared to competitors), especially if you don’t purchase RAM and storage from Apple, if you plan to keep your WS for about 5 years it will cost you about 8$ a day, if somebody can not absorb that little sum within a day of work then they should seriously reconsider their job.

This is about right. If you're a pro 'video' freelancer in the UK you're probably earning £300+/day - let's go with £300 for argument's sake. If the machine costs £6000 and you expect to hold onto it for 10 years (it looks upgradable) then that's just £600 or 2 days work per year (of course we can double this to a £12,000 machine that translates to 4 days work per year). Also consider that that the cost goes against your income tax and if VAT registered, you're also getting 20% off which reduces the overall yearly cost even further.
In a business context it is not expensive. And I'm getting one - can't wait.:)

To add to this, I'm working daily on my upgraded MP 5,1 (which is 10 years old) and it runs just fine for what I need. Pretty sure I could get another few years out of it.
 
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Parzival

macrumors regular
May 12, 2013
152
290
Apple has certainly earned some flak for how they've ignored the workstation market, but, as has been discussed to death, the base model is the starting point for configuration - not what 99% of buyers will actually work with.

Which means it will be even more expensive
 
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Upgrader

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2014
345
53
It will be readily available for purchase (not back ordered or limited supply) a week before the next generation of Intel Xeons are announced.
I’m looking for hints of this date but I can’t find anything. Do you know roughly when this may be?
 

thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
Store site says "Coming this Fall", so...
Autumn 2019 in Northern Hemisphere will begin on
Monday, September 23 and end on Saturday, December 21.

So maybe September 20 isn't too far off the mark. We shall see.

I'm moving on if release is scheduled around Dec 1st, Nov 1st......:mad:

Oct 1st is the latest.......Sept 23rd would be fantastic :p
 
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shuto

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2016
195
110
Also consider that that the cost goes against your income tax and if VAT registered, you're also getting 20% off which reduces the overall yearly cost even further.

I like you way of thinking about the pricing of Mac Pro. I guess the Mac Pro will be good for 5 years of use, and the screen will be good for 10+ years of use. I'm planing to try and buy it with student discount to get another 10% off. I am a VAT registered business and my wife is a phd student so I have access to the education apple store that way.

I'm thinking it will cost £8000 to get a worth while buying Mac Pro (CPU, SSD & GPU upgrades) + £5000 for XDR display = £13,000. Minus 20% for removing VAT, Minus 10% for student discount = £9,100.

Think it might be worth while people trying to find a student to save £1,300. They can have the free beats headphones for their part of the deal :)
 

Upgrader

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2014
345
53
I like you way of thinking about the pricing of Mac Pro. I guess the Mac Pro will be good for 5 years of use, and the screen will be good for 10+ years of use. I'm planing to try and buy it with student discount to get another 10% off. I am a VAT registered business and my wife is a phd student so I have access to the education apple store that way.

I'm thinking it will cost £8000 to get a worth while buying Mac Pro (CPU, SSD & GPU upgrades) + £5000 for XDR display = £13,000. Minus 20% for removing VAT, Minus 10% for student discount = £9,100.

Think it might be worth while people trying to find a student to save £1,300. They can have the free beats headphones for their part of the deal :)
The Mac Pro will almost certainly last longer than 5 years. The CPU looks easy to upgrade and there’s lots of space for RAM upgrades as you go. Like I say, my current upgraded 2009 Mac Pro is 10 years old and still serves me well as an After Effects user.
 

shuto

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2016
195
110
After Effects user.

I'm an after effects user like you and the tricky thing to settle in my head with the new Mac Pro is that probably the 2019 i9 iMac will be quicker for after effects than 2019 Mac Pro (5ghz turbo on iMac v 4.4ghz turbo on 12 core Mac Pro). But maybe the thermal throttling in an iMac will bring its rendering speed similar to Mac Pro which shouldn't be thermal constrained.

Mac Pro will be good for Cinema4D though.

The main reason for me not getting an iMac is I can't get on with their glossy screens, so hopefully going to get a matt XDR display.

The 2019 Mac Pro CPU will probably be upgradable to say the 28-core option later down the line, but there is no way of knowing that other future intel xeon w chips will work with this Mac, as intel could change the socket. I think it was very lucky that the Mac Pro 4,1 / 5,1 was able to be upgraded for so long, but there is no way of knowing that this will be the same for 2019 Mac Pro.
 

Slash-2CPU

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2016
404
268
I'm an after effects user like you and the tricky thing to settle in my head with the new Mac Pro is that probably the 2019 i9 iMac will be quicker for after effects than 2019 Mac Pro (5ghz turbo on iMac v 4.4ghz turbo on 12 core Mac Pro). But maybe the thermal throttling in an iMac will bring its rendering speed similar to Mac Pro which shouldn't be thermal constrained.

The 2019 Mac Pro CPU will probably be upgradable to say the 28-core option later down the line, but there is no way of knowing that other future intel xeon w chips will work with this Mac, as intel could change the socket. I think it was very lucky that the Mac Pro 4,1 / 5,1 was able to be upgraded for so long, but there is no way of knowing that this will be the same for 2019 Mac Pro.

iMac 2019 turbo with i9-9900k will be lower than that when you've got 4+ cores maxed out. Typical will be 4.8-4.6GHz. For the 12-core 12/31/2019 Mac Pro with W-3235, typical turbo will be 4.1-4.3GHz with 4-8 cores under load.

i9-9900K is Coffee Lake. W-3235 is Cascade Lake. There's not any major performance improvements between the two. Cascade Lake might be 5% faster than Coffee Lake at the same clock speed, but I have no head to head comparison to be sure of this. The additional memory channels and larger caches are worth 2-3% for sure, so 5% seems reasonable.

In that case, a 4.2GHz Cascade Lake would perform roughly the same as a 4.4GHz Coffee Lake for tasks using 8 cores or less. The difference between 4.4GHz and 4.6-4.8GHz is around 6-7%. General rule of thumb is 15% is perceptible to the user. Even on long render tasks, that would have one system finishing a job in 120 minutes while the other finishes in 112 minutes, assuming the iMac doesn't thermal throttle with 112 minutes of 100% CPU load. Hardly something to lose sleep over. Obviously when that Cascade Lake chip is given a task that uses 10+ cores, it will come out far ahead of a i9-9900K.

I would be shocked beyond belief if any chips beyond the existing Cascade Lake-W Xeons work in the 23:59:59 12/31/2019 Mac Pro.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,366
3,936
....
The main reason for me not getting an iMac is I can't get on with their glossy screens, so hopefully going to get a matt XDR display.

The matte display for the XDR is $1,000 more than the regular one. The regular XDR is fully laminated and likely very bright so reasonable room lighting and non mostly black content on screen should work well.

You'll need a stand also if don't have one. :) So . $6,000+ range even before toss in exchange rate hiccups .


The 2019 Mac Pro CPU will probably be upgradable to say the 28-core option later down the line, but there is no way of knowing that other future intel xeon w chips will work with this Mac, as intel could change the socket.

For the Xeon SP products, Intel is changing the socket.


But the socket is only half the issue. Intel is also changing the I/O chipset (i.e., new Platform ). Intel is also changing the . PCH chip with the socket change. Even if Intel keeps around another variant of the 3467 socket the associated chipset will extremely likely change also. There is a chance Intel could keep around a new variant of the 3467 socket for the Xeon W 3300 series just because the new SP socket is just all the more bloated in size. ( if trying to balance CPU socket space , DIMM space , and PCI-e standard slots space ). Or they could move the Xeon W 2300 series to a new variant of 3467 (for the system's making tradeoff ) and move the 3300 series up to more austere slot allocation systems. But if those new 3467 variants are dependent upon a new chipset then it is a non starter for the new Mac Pro ( the chipsets ... just like the rest of the workstation market is soldered to the logic board. )


Cascade Lake is a dead end for that socket and chipset combination. It is all over Intel's roadmaps. Eventually there will be more affordable CPUs but they'll mainly just be used ones. ( about 5+ years out a large fraction will be jumping off to what is new at that point. ).

That doesn't mean these new systems don't have workstation utility over the next 4-5 years. But 4-5 years from now it is extremely likely there will be substantively better options available in the high end workstation space.


I think it was very lucky that the Mac Pro 4,1 / 5,1 was able to be upgraded for so long, but there is no way of knowing that this will be the same for 2019 Mac Pro.

The 'luck' there was in part because Apple was in Rip van Winkle mode on the Mac Pro most of that time. If Apple is serious now, there is a decent change there will be an upgrade from this new system within 2 years (as opposed to the 3 year gap between 2010 (5,1) and 2013 (6,1). So the macOS update coverage time will probably run shorter (at least a year).

However, in terms of being able to throw new parts into a container, there isn't much materially different with the new system. If want to sit and squat on components released over the next year or two , the new system will work just fine. Cheaper used CPUs eventually. Add in card 2-3 years from now will take similar 'hit' the 4,1/5,1 took when couldn't track PCI-e v3.
 

MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,883
2,363
Portland, Ore.
Yeah it's fall! It looks like Apple just made the decision to assemble them in Texas though so I'm guessing it'll be late fall before we see shipments.
 

t0mat0

macrumors 603
Aug 29, 2006
5,473
284
Home
Yeah it's fall! It looks like Apple just made the decision to assemble them in Texas though so I'm guessing it'll be late fall before we see shipments.

Isn't that a remarkable turn around - from deciding to make them in Texas to production a few months later - all the tooling, supply chains, parts, staff etc?
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
Isn't that a remarkable turn around - from deciding to make them in Texas to production a few months later - all the tooling, supply chains, parts, staff etc?
As many have predicted, it's likely that the MP7,1 will be the Mac Pro early 2020 - although Apple might fudge the release by shipping a few units between Saturnalia and 1 January.
 
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MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,883
2,363
Portland, Ore.
Isn't that a remarkable turn around - from deciding to make them in Texas to production a few months later - all the tooling, supply chains, parts, staff etc?

That's a good point. I think it's logical to assume they set up to build them in Texas all along and withholding that info before and the recent announcement was purely a PR move.
 

goMac

Contributor
Apr 15, 2004
7,662
1,694

macguru9999

macrumors 6502a
Aug 9, 2006
788
364
What is the address of the assembly plant in Texas ? Maybe someone could go to the local McDonalds (there has to be one) and chat up a worker ? (altho i suppose they all signed ndas)
 
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sirio76

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2013
571
405
But they weren't going to initially. The production line was already being spun up in China.

Hard to believe there won't be a delay here. Apple will probably try to keep it within "Fall" but I'd now be surprised if this thing starts shipping at an Apple event next month.
I’m not saying there will not be delay, but a large manufacturing plant is already there as far as I know so I’m not expecting more than a couple month before shipping. After all they’ll just assemble the machine there so they do not require complex manufacturing tools do be prepared before starting production. IMO is more a logistic effort.
 

thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
I'm only waiting until October then I have to move on ......I'll buy a used one down the road.:rolleyes:

This is taking way to long......waiting years for a announcement on an MP and waiting months to push one out the door......to much marketing and not enough substance.:mad:
 
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goMac

Contributor
Apr 15, 2004
7,662
1,694
I’m not saying there will not be delay, but a large manufacturing plant is already there as far as I know so I’m not expecting more than a couple month before shipping. After all they’ll just assemble the machine there so they do not require complex manufacturing tools do be prepared before starting production. IMO is more a logistic effort.

I would guess the existing line is not tooled for the new Mac Pro, and Apple does love to use complex manufacturing tools. The case itself probably requires custom tooling.

It's going to take some time to redo the Texas line to accommodate.

It looks like all the boards will continue to come from China, so at least those won't be delayed.

But Apple's announcement goes beyond assembly. To meet the tariff requirements, they did have to move a considerable amount of production stateside.
 

sirio76

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2013
571
405
They specified they’ll only assemble the machine in US. You barely need a bunch of people with screwdriver for that;)
 
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