Mac Pro (Late 2013) - Amfeltec AngelShark Carrier Board - Storage Upgrade

[Yahooligan]

This is awesome, thanks for sharing! Always makes me happy to see products still being developed for the nMP.

 

[bradl001]

If you plan to use the original drive then you need an external case. Getting the AngelShark "absorbs" that cost.

May use this with an original 256 GB and a ~$200 Samsung 500 GB NVMe with a slot to spare. That'd be about $700 total if the AngelShark is ~$500.

Cleaner solution than using something like an external Sonnet Echo 15 Thunderbolt 2 docking station holding dual 2.5" SATA SSDs. [But I have those SSD's already.]

Anyway... Did anyone get a quoted discount like the original poster? Just wondering what to expect after shipping and card processing fees.

Anyone get one and have buyer's remorse? [I'm here to, possibly, help.]

Thanks,
Brad

 

[mbosse]

Test Mac Pro Specifications
MacPro6,1
BootROM: MP61.0120.B00
macOS High Sierra 10.13.1 (17B1003)
E5-1660v2 3.7GHz (15MB L3) Hexacore
16GB of Apple/SKHynix PC3-14900 ECC
Apple/Samsung SM0256G PCIe SSD (SSUBX based)
2x AMD FirePro D300 with 2GB VRAM

Testing Tools for SSD Benchmarks
AJA System Test Lite - Primary Test - 4GB File Size
BlackMagic Disk Speed Test (Outdated, but still a decent tool to check against)

http://amfeltec.com/products/mac-pro-late-2013-carrier-board-for-m-2-pcie-ssd-modules/

I'm working on getting one in to test. Really interesting how they power the board from the Bus Bars that go to the GPU. They are using the two black screws in the upper right hand corner of Graphics Board B. They include two standoffs. Pretty cool!

UPDATE 1/16/18 12:00pm CST

Added pictures to post.

10.13.2 didn't change the compatibility of any drives at the bottom of this post.

The Samsung 960 EVO and 960 PRO are the best available to use with this adapter board. Because of the internal link speed, you will not see any increase in speed with the 960 EVO or 960 PRO, but you will be able to get up to 6TB of internal storage, which is nice.

The other interesting thing is the board has boot LEDs so that you are aware that it is working probably. These do not blink or stay on once the system has done its NVRAM and POST checks.

https://photos.google.com/u/2/photo/AF1QipMkoDZcx4TGyFJqZa3GGSbnvoJjNMGFwqezgHo2

UPDATE 12/1/17 12:30pm CST
I have received the card and I'm currently taking pictures and documenting benchmarks on difference NVMe drives.

UPDATE 12/2/17 10:30am CST
Pictures of AngelShark Board installed. It's a rather well engineered board. It is rather thin (looks to be a three or four layer board) and kinda flexible.

UPDATE 12/3/17 10:30am CST
I've been testing the board for multiple days and I'm still experiencing slow write speeds on any and all compatible m.2 SSDs. 300MB/s is the fastest I've been able to achieve, on BlackMagic Disk Speed Test and AJA System Test Lite.

Internal Apple SSD shown as external drive within Disk utility.

UPDATE 12/3/17 11:15am CST
300MB/s writes are still present even after a fresh install of High Sierra on the PM951 as the boot drive. Apple SM0256G speeds are the same within the boot environment on the PM951, 1400R/1200W.

UPDATE 12/3/17 5:30pm CST
Ran out and grabbed a couple of Samsung 960 EVO 256GB. They show full bandwidth on read and write. They are only performing at PCIe 2.0 x4 speed (up to 2GB/s). I RAIDed them in a RAID0 and same result as a single drive. ~1500MB/s READ & ~1350MB/s WRITE.

Single 960 EVO

RAID0 of 2x 256GB 960 EVO

COMPATIBLE
Samsung 960 EVO - Full Bandwidth on Read & Write
Samsung 960 Pro - Full Bandwidth on Read & Write
Samsung PM951 NVMe - Full Bandwidth Read, 1/4 Bandwidth Write
Toshiba XG4 - Full Bandwidth Read, 1/4 Bandwidth Write
Toshiba XG3 - Full Bandwidth Read, 1/4 Bandwidth Write

NOT COMPATIBLE
LiteOn CX2 (commonly used in Dell Latitude & Precision Notebooks)

(List up to date as of December 3rd, 2017 at 5:30pm CST)

Keywords
Mac Pro (Late 2013) Carrier Board for M.2 PCIe SSD Modules
Amfeltec AngelShark Carrier Board
SKU-088-01 AngelShark Carrier Board for M.2 SSD modules (M.2 key M)

Do you need to have at least one original Apple SSD in place or does it work (bootable) with one of the listed SSDs only? Thanks, Magnus

 

[RyanXM]

Do you need to have at least one original Apple SSD in place or does it work (bootable) with one of the listed SSDs only? Thanks, Magnus

I didn't have an adapter at the time to test putting another SSD in the main spot. I booted off the Apple SSD and used the others for scratch disks. I have since moved on from the Mac Pro and have gone to an iMac Pro. It made more since for me.

I would assume that you can use another PCIe SSD with the use of the Snitch adapter in the main Apple SSD spot.

 

[bobafetted]

I didn't have an adapter at the time to test putting another SSD in the main spot. I booted off the Apple SSD and used the others for scratch disks. I have since moved on from the Mac Pro and have gone to an iMac Pro. It made more since for me.

I would assume that you can use another PCIe SSD with the use of the Snitch adapter in the main Apple SSD spot.

Do you think that this device could be combined with the M.2 video card options (instead of using it for storage) to Frankenstein the nMP to a FULL SPEED Nvidia card like a 1080? This should be theoretically true PCI internal speeds…not Thunderbolt 2 speeds. I specifically mean one of these:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...KUMsKv0Tb6yfqnmC4qBoCsDEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[AidenShaw]

Do you think that this device could be combined with the M.2 video card options (instead of using it for storage) to Frankenstein the nMP to a FULL SPEED Nvidia card like a 1080? This should be theoretically true PCI internal speeds…not Thunderbolt 2 speeds. I specifically mean one of these:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...KUMsKv0Tb6yfqnmC4qBoCsDEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

The first bullet on that page says NO.

> Support for PCI-E X16, actual X1 mode

 

[joevt]

Do you think that this device could be combined with the M.2 video card options (instead of using it for storage) to Frankenstein the nMP to a FULL SPEED Nvidia card like a 1080? This should be theoretically true PCI internal speeds…not Thunderbolt 2 speeds. I specifically mean one of these:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...KUMsKv0Tb6yfqnmC4qBoCsDEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

That adapter only allows x1. You need an x4 adapter to get better than Thunderbolt 2 speed.
Something like the following which is sold by various sellers:
http://www.bplustech.com/ExtenderBoard/R4 Series.html
You want one of the R42 or R43 variants (the length and PCIe connector size/orientation varies).
The speed improvement is probably not worth it.

 

[CodeJingle]

Do you think that this device could be combined with the M.2 video card options (instead of using it for storage) to Frankenstein the nMP to a FULL SPEED Nvidia card like a 1080?

If eGPU were still officially supported on nMP it would be the same speed or faster compared to directly tapping into the nMP M.2's four lanes of PCIe 2.0. A solution doesn't exist yet for direct connection of your own 16 lane PCIe 3.0 device on nMP. You can check out my current progress to map out the PCIe lanes of the nMP and eventually test replacing the GPU. Though I am pessimistic about internal GPU support for nVidia on nMP, AMD is more likely. Vega and 1080 are the same architecture it shouldn't matter too much. Since this is a side project for fun R&D is slow unless you want to donate.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ac-pro-2013-6-1.2085886/page-20#post-26006474

 

[Kris Kelvin]

Starting with 10.13.4, I've been getting kernel panics on wake from sleep and shutdown when using a Samsung 960 Pro (NVMe) as boot drive:

panic(cpu 0 caller 0xffffff7f867bc0e9): nvme: "systemWillShutdown, ShutdownNVMe() completed with status = 0xe00002e9\n"@/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/IONVMeFamily/IONVMeFamily-356.60.4/IONVMeController.cpp:508

10.13.5 Beta 4 didn't help.

I've now switched back to using the Apple AHCI SSD as boot drive, and NVMe panics are almost all gone.

 

[tralfaz]

Starting with 10.13.4, I've been getting kernel panics on wake from sleep and shutdown when using a Samsung 960 Pro (NVMe) as boot drive:

panic(cpu 0 caller 0xffffff7f867bc0e9): nvme: "systemWillShutdown, ShutdownNVMe() completed with status = 0xe00002e9\n"@/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/IONVMeFamily/IONVMeFamily-356.60.4/IONVMeController.cpp:508

10.13.5 Beta 4 didn't help.

I've now switched back to using the Apple AHCI SSD as boot drive, and NVMe panics are almost all gone.

Well I was thinking of getting one of these, now, maybe not.

 

[Kris Kelvin]

Well I was thinking of getting one of these, now, maybe not.

It's still the best solution for additional internal storage in the Mac Pro 2013. As long as you're booting from the Apple drive, you should be fine.

Also, Apple might eventually fix the NVMe drivers – they're still fairly young anyway.

 

[DavoteK]

If you plan to use the original drive then you need an external case. Getting the AngelShark "absorbs" that cost.

May use this with an original 256 GB and a ~$200 Samsung 500 GB NVMe with a slot to spare. That'd be about $700 total if the AngelShark is ~$500.

Cleaner solution than using something like an external Sonnet Echo 15 Thunderbolt 2 docking station holding dual 2.5" SATA SSDs. [But I have those SSD's already.]

Anyway... Did anyone get a quoted discount like the original poster? Just wondering what to expect after shipping and card processing fees.

Anyone get one and have buyer's remorse? [I'm here to, possibly, help.]

Thanks,
Brad

In the market as well. Including international shipping I’m looking at $500+.

Still mulling it over.

 

[bradl001]

I'm also waiting to hear if the final build of macOS Mojave has issues with non-Apple boot NVMe devices. Having an AngelShark could work around that problem. Fingers crossed.

 

[tralfaz]

I purchased the board, will install it this weekend without an additional SSD. Still debating on whether to get an Samsung 960 EVO or 970 EVO. I haven't seen any success stories with the 970. Oddly the 960 is still a bit more expensive than the 970.

 

[handheldgames]

I purchased the board, will install it this weekend without an additional SSD. Still debating on whether to get an Samsung 960 EVO or 970 EVO. I haven't seen any success stories with the 970. Oddly the 960 is still a bit more expensive than the 970.

The 970evo / 960evo have limited write speeds once the cache is used up. Cache is 512MB unless you buy 1TB. For 512GB size The PM981, an early version of the 970pro, on ebay is a better purchase with higher sustained writes.

 

[tralfaz]

The 970evo / 960evo have limited write speeds once the cache is used up. Cache is 512MB unless you buy 1TB. For 512GB size The PM981, an early version of the 970pro, on ebay is a better purchase with higher sustained writes.

View attachment 770145

I would be getting the 1TB version, so speed gain for the PRO variant is not as significant as bulk storage increase in the near future. But hey that's why it is nice to have that third slot.

 

[handheldgames]

The PM981 at 1TB is only $309. vs $389 for the 970 evo.

Thanks for making me look at prices. I've been looking for another NVMe SSD.

 

[Kris Kelvin]

I figured out what led to my kernel panics on shutdown and sleep: Having a Windows installation on a separate NVMe drive. As soon as I formatted this drive with APFS, these issues are gone.

 

[CodeJingle]

I figured out what led to my kernel panics on shutdown and sleep: Having a Windows installation on a separate NVMe drive. As soon as I formatted this drive with APFS, these issues are gone.

was the windows drive fat partition, ntfs partition, or something else?

does this also fix the issues you were seeing if the main drive on the amfeltec board is nvme?

kris any way for you to check, if on the same nvme drive with apfs that you were previously having issues, if you add a windows partition via bootcamp assistant, that these issues come back? i may be seeing something like this. but bootcamp is stupid and makes the other partition fat, then you have to go back and change it to ntfs because windows 10 can't install to a fat partition. bootcamp assistant is behind the times.
[doublepost=1533730220][/doublepost]
I filed a new bug based on this issue. It may actually be the problem I am seeing on my setup, that a FAT or NTFS partition on an NVMe drive, when attached to Mac Pro (late 2013) and booted into macOS, will cause kernel panics. In my case my main drive is NVMe and it has a split between APFS and NTFS and still having the issue.

 

[Kris Kelvin]

was the windows drive fat partition, ntfs partition, or something else?

Definitely NTFS, and EFI partition map if I remember correctly.

does this also fix the issues you were seeing if the main drive on the amfeltec board is nvme?

I believe it would fix the panics. Don't know about the slow boot process.

kris any way for you to check, if on the same nvme drive with apfs that you were previously having issues, if you add a windows partition via bootcamp assistant, that these issues come back?

Can confirm.
Partitioned to APFS. No panics.
Partitioned to APFS and FAT. No panics.
Partitioned to APFS and NTFS. Panic on first shutdown.

So there seems to be a problem when using NTFS partitions on NVMe drives under macOS.

I first thought that maybe the NTFS partition doesn't get unmounted properly, but panics occurred even when I prevented the NTFS partition from mounting (by editing /etc/fstab). The mere existence of such a partition seems to be sufficient to trigger the panics.

Interestingly, I didn't experience any panics while Paragon's NTFS driver was installed and active (https://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/). Could be a concidence – I don't know.

Edit: Typo

 

[CodeJingle]

Partitioned to APFS and FAT. No panics.
Partitioned to APFS and NTFS. Panic on first shutdown.

Thanks so much for confirming and with the extra details!

Does this only repro on Mac Pro (late 2013)? Can you test on iMac Pro or Macbook Pro (2018)?

I would trace the issue back to Apple not properly supporting NTFS. NTFS drives mount read-only in macOS. Bootcamp Assistant only splits to FAT which is quite outdated (Windows 10 won't install on FAT).

Yes the mere presence of a mounted NVNe drive with both APFS and NTFS volumes on it seems to cause macOS kernel panic.

This is unprecedented to find such an issue! Anyone doing bootcamp to setup a Windows 10 split on a modern mac will run into this issue unless it only repros on Mac Pro (late 2013).

I filed a new bug 43042692 (original bug 41842066).

 

[CodeJingle]

So there is no recourse here unless the issue can be reproduced on a 1st party drive. Can anyone get the built-in NVMe to crash with APFS + NTFS on iMac Pro or Macbook Pro 2018?

 

[CodeJingle]

I deleted all NTFS and FAT partitions on the NVMe drive. The main APFS volume is back to full size. Upgraded to latest Mojave. Hopefully no more kernel panics. Emergency shutdown should now only be caused by GPU overheat (my fault, unrelated issue).

 

[elitebigboss]

I deleted all NTFS and FAT partitions on the NVMe drive. The main APFS volume is back to full size. Upgraded to latest Mojave. Hopefully no more kernel panics. Emergency shutdown should now only be caused by GPU overheat (my fault, unrelated issue).

So does mojave works for you? with apfs and ntfs?

 

[onesixright]

So does mojave works for you? with apfs and ntfs?

Hi All,

With interest I was reading this. Thank you for sharing!

I'm on the fence as-well, but the price

Any update on 10.14 (Mojave) any clues wetter it works?

Thanks!