MacBook Air will not see 2010?? <-Question, not fact.

[iSlave]

Hi,
With all the rumours of Apple working on a netbook of it's own, where exactly does this leave the MacBook Air? Surely by entering the netbook market, Apple are effectively making the MacBook Air with no apparent target market? My guess is that the MacBook Air will not see 2010, or at least not in the form it currently appears in...

 

[Veinticinco]

Hi,
With all the rumours of Apple working on a netbook of it's own, where exactly does this leave the MacBook Air? Surely by entering the netbook market, Apple are effectively making the MacBook Air with no apparent target market? My guess is that the MacBook Air will not see 2010, or at least not in the form it currently appears in...

The rev.B MBA is NOT a netbook, far from it. Thus an iTablet thingie (the most likely 'netbook' given the iPhone/iPod Touch are essentially already 'netbooks') will not make an MBA obsolete by its mere existence. The target markets are very different - a 'netbook' is aimed at mass-market low-end consumer users, whereas in reality, a specced-up MBA is aimed at niche-market, high-end 'pro' users. The MB fills the huge gap in between.

That said, I've speculated before about this, whether the MBA will be mothballed by next year, either before or after any forthcoming refresh. That was based on the lack of news re. the MBA and the way it is presented within the Apple retail environment - less flagship, more like leper. However I think we'll see a rev.C with improved specs and a rev.D with design changes to the form factor. In fact I'm about to start a related thread about something interesting....

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Could you add a question mark or something to your title? It's stated as fact but the thread is entirely opinion.

 

[iSlave]

...Okay, but if the iTablet/netbook has all the functionality of current PC netbooks (I'm assuming it will if it wants to compete) - then surely the MacBook Air's position is slightly questionable?

I'm obviously going to ruffle some feathers with this thread, so I'm sorry if I knock anyone's ego or anything!

 

[GeekGirl*]

Can I have my last 5 minutes back,?

 

[sushi]

SSD devices are getting bigger, cheaper and faster. When will they replace HDs in laptop devices? Hard to say, but will happen sooner than later.

Internet speed & availability, cloud storage, VPN and remote access is continue to get better.

I see the MBA's popularity increasing over time.

If I were to guess, I see this occurring down the road in 2-3 years:

• MBA 10 and 13 inch.
• MBP 13, 15 and 17 inch. All with FW800, and maybe a matte option.
• MB gone. Removable batteries gone.

 

[Veinticinco]

...Okay, but if the iTablet/netbook has all the functionality of current PC netbooks (I'm assuming it will if it wants to compete) - then surely the MacBook Air's position is slightly questionable?

I'm obviously going to ruffle some feathers with this thread, so I'm sorry if I knock anyone's ego or anything!

No feather ruffled here but you're still not getting it.....an MBA is not a netbook, far from it. Many users may use it as such, but then many Maserati GT owners use it to only to drive to the supermarket and back. Doesn't mean that a new Smart car will signal the end of Maserati, does it?

 

[Veinticinco]

SSD devices are getting bigger, cheaper and faster. When will they replace HDs in laptop devices? Hard to say, but will happen sooner than later.

Internet speed & availability, cloud storage, VPN and remote access is continue to get better.

I see the MBA's popularity increasing over time.

If I were to guess, I see this occurring down the road in 2-3 years:

• MBA 10 and 13 inch.
• MBP 13, 15 and 17 inch. All with FW800, and maybe a matte option.
• MB gone. Removable batteries gone.

Don't understand that - why the MB gone? It's their volume seller by an enormous distance. Or are you saying the specs would be upgraded and everything given the 'Pro' branding? Don't agree I'm afraid. If anything, the opposite but even then I think it unlikely. The two may have converged design-wise, but IMO as long as Apple make laptops, they'll always want to differentiate their 'pro' products away from their 'consumer' ones.

Personally, I think with the introduction of hi-res OLED displays both internal and as standalone ACDs, I see a limited lifespan for a 17" laptop.

 

[RedTomato]

My partner has the Air. It is perfect for her - all she does is email and web and writing.

A netbook would not suit her - too small screen. The Air would not suit me - too underpowered.

Air is good for all these high level people who do business admin and mostly do email and web and calender etc, and very little technical stuff.

It's also suitable for people who are on computers a lot but don't do much game-playing or technical stuff, so need a large, light computer for their main machine.

After it came out, 4 staff at my daughter's primary school told me they wanted to get one. These people find it hard to figure out which end of a USB lead to plug in, but they want an Air.

(BTW not a criticism. I couldn't teach a class of kids, but I also want the best school for my daughter)

I don't see the Air going soon.

 

[Veinticinco]

Air is good for all these high level people who do business admin and mostly do email and web and calender etc, and very little technical stuff.

It's also suitable for people who are on computers a lot but don't do much game-playing or technical stuff, so need a large, light computer for their main machine.

More than a bit of generalisation going on here. My MBAs (before they returned to source) were more than adept at running Adobe CS4, not to mention OsiriX - lots of CPU and GPU horses required. Didn't break a sweat. I have a friend who uses his rev.B for FCP as well and loves it. Technical enough for you?

 

[iann1982]

My partner has the Air. It is perfect for her - all she does is email and web and writing.

A netbook would not suit her - too small screen. The Air would not suit me - too underpowered.

Air is good for all these high level people who do business admin and mostly do email and web and calender etc, and very little technical stuff.

It's also suitable for people who are on computers a lot but don't do much game-playing or technical stuff, so need a large, light computer for their main machine.

After it came out, 4 staff at my daughter's primary school told me they wanted to get one. These people find it hard to figure out which end of a USB lead to plug in, but they want an Air.

(BTW not a criticism. I couldn't teach a class of kids, but I also want the best school for my daughter)

The Air has plenty of grunt, I have mine running a tomcat server, java EDRMS + WCM, remote desktop on 1920 x 1080 24" monitor + iTunes all day and it's fine. I love being able to take it with me if I go anywhere at the drop of a hat and have all my normal files.

 

[iSlave]

No feather ruffled here but you're still not getting it.....an MBA is not a netbook, far from it. Many users may use it as such, but then many Maserati GT owners use it to only to drive to the supermarket and back. Doesn't mean that a new Smart car will signal the end of Maserati, does it?

No, but whoever buys a Maserati GT in order to only drive to the supermarket needs to see a therapist. I know the MBA is not technically a netbook, but it's not exactly far off.

It's small (ish)
Light
Less powerful than a standard laptop
Less ports
No optical drive
..and aimed at people who travel a lot.

A netbook could very well cover a lot of these areas. Which leads to my original question as to whether or not the MBA has a place in Apple's line-up should they produce a netbook.

 

[Veinticinco]

No, but whoever buys a Maserati GT in order to only drive to the supermarket needs to see a therapist. I know the MBA is not technically a netbook, but it's not exactly far off.

It's small (ish)
Light
Less powerful than a standard laptop
Less ports
No optical drive
..and aimed at people who travel a lot.

A netbook could very well cover a lot of these areas. Which leads to my original question as to whether or not the MBA has a place in Apple's line-up should they produce a netbook.

You're a lost cause my friend. Read the above two posts from myself and iann1982. "Not far off a netbook"? It's VERY far off.

It's fairly obvious you've no personal experience of a rev.B MBA and are just repeating an unvalidated opinion, either borne out of ignorance or prejudice. Possibly both.

 

[RedTomato]

More than a bit of generalisation going on here. My MBAs (before they returned to source) were more than adept at running Adobe CS4, not to mention OsiriX - lots of CPU and GPU horses required. Didn't break a sweat. I have a friend who uses his rev.B for FCP as well and loves it. Technical enough for you?

Thanks for the info - I didn't know it had enough power for that. Good on you. Mainly I read here about it stuttering on YouTube.

 

[Veinticinco]

It's small (ish) - same 13" size as a MB and lot of PC laptops but significantly bigger ('full-sized') than a 10" Eee-PC or whatever they're called.

Light - agreed, which given its larger size - see above - is a real plus

Less powerful than a standard laptop - which standard laptop are you talking about? Even if you say a top-spec MB, you're still fighting a hard battle, the rev.B will outperform most - just check its benchmarks if you don't believe it. A standard 'Smart car' 'netbook' doesn't even come close to the 'Maserati' MBA - to suggest it does is laughable

Less ports - one USB port granted, but whilst a slight inconvenience very occasionally, my Griffin USB nanohub takes care of that. Don't need anything else, although FW would be nice (even the MB has dropped that now)

No optical drive - it does have an superdrive - it's just external, which means I can choose whether or not to lug it around - I usually don't as it's very rarely used. Anyway optical drives are heading the way of the floppy disk

..and aimed at people who travel a lot -as are ALL laptops! Otherwise they'd be desktops

There, some direct responses to your rather limited arguments.

 

[Veinticinco]

Thanks for the info - I didn't know it had enough power for that. Good on you. Mainly I read here about it stuttering on YouTube.

That'll be the asthmatic and arthritic first incarnation, the rev.A (more accurately 'version' A) which was a bit of a dog, hugely underpowered, plagued by core lockdowns, heat issues and other nasties. That said, many have had success using software updates, other utilities (Coolbook), and hardware mods (reapplying thermal paste).

Apple literally redesigned the internals on the rev.B, - it's basically a totally different generation computer within an identical shell. In my experience, the 1.86 SSD spec is faster than a 2.4 GHZ MB with HDD and 4GB RAM.

Your view is a common one - and why the MBA rev.B doesn't sell so well - still suffers from its predecessor's rather tarnished reputation as an overpriced netbook.

 

[iMacmatician]

Hi,
With all the rumours of Apple working on a netbook of it's own, where exactly does this leave the MacBook Air? Surely by entering the netbook market, Apple are effectively making the MacBook Air with no apparent target market? My guess is that the MacBook Air will not see 2010, or at least not in the form it currently appears in...

I guess it depends on what type of netbook/tablet is used. I don't think an iPhone OS mini-tablet would cannibalize the MacBook Air. A Mac OS X netbook would be a bit closer to the MacBook Air, but I still don't think there will be significant cannibalization.

SSD devices are getting bigger, cheaper and faster. When will they replace HDs in laptop devices? Hard to say, but will happen sooner than later.

Internet speed & availability, cloud storage, VPN and remote access is continue to get better.

I see the MBA's popularity increasing over time.

If I were to guess, I see this occurring down the road in 2-3 years:

• MBA 10 and 13 inch.
• MBP 13, 15 and 17 inch. All with FW800, and maybe a matte option.
• MB gone. Removable batteries gone.

I'm kinda on the same thought line as you, but I see the MacBook Air in 11", 13", and 15" sizes and the MacBook Pro becoming more high-end and remaining 15" and 17". Below the MacBook Air would be the mini-tablet.

I kinda see the distinction between the MacBook Air and the MacBook (Pro) as similar to the distinction between the iMac and the Mac Pro. And as we've seen with the Power Mac, it's moved up in price these past few years.

 

[RedTomato]

That'll be the asthmatic and arthritic first incarnation, the rev.A (more accurately 'version' A) which was a bit of a dog
[...]
Apple literally redesigned the internals on the rev.B, - it's basically a totally different generation computer within an identical shell. In my experience, the 1.86 SSD spec is faster than a 2.4 GHZ MB with HDD and 4GB RAM.

Your challenge intrigues me.

My partner has the rev B, one of the first ones, but without the SSD. YouTube generally runs fine, but with the occasional jerk; not sure if its the wi-fi or the computer. I never bothered to run a benchmark as I hardly ever use it (She won't let me!)

I have a whitebook 2.2ghz with 320gb HD and 4 GB ram. To be honest, I think it's far faster than her Air. Will try to find time to run benches, probably not before next week, and see what the numbers say.

 

[Veinticinco]

Your challenge intrigues me.

My partner has the rev B, one of the first ones, but without the SSD. YouTube generally runs fine, but with the occasional jerk; not sure if its the wi-fi or the computer. I never bothered to run a benchmark as I hardly ever use it (She won't let me!)

I have a whitebook 2.2ghz with 320gb HD and 4 GB ram. To be honest, I think it's far faster than her Air. Will try to find time to run benches, probably not before next week, and see what the numbers say.

Good for you that you'll take it up. I still think even in HDD form, her rev.B MBA (now SATA HDD remember, plus a faster front bus speed at 1066MHz than yours at 800MHz) will give your whitebook a run for its money. I'll be interested to see the outcome.

 

[sushi]

Don't understand that - why the MB gone? It's their volume seller by an enormous distance. Or are you saying the specs would be upgraded and everything given the 'Pro' branding? Don't agree I'm afraid. If anything, the opposite but even then I think it unlikely. The two may have converged design-wise, but IMO as long as Apple make laptops, they'll always want to differentiate their 'pro' products away from their 'consumer' ones.

You may be right. The MB is a good laptop. But it's positioned in between the white MB and the MBP lineup.

Maybe the white type MB will continue to exist on the consumer level. With some upgrading, the current aluminum MB could become a MBP.

The 12 inch PowerBook was one of Apple's best laptops. Many who owned one would like a replacement -- pent up buying demand if you will. If the current MB was upgrade with FW800 and some other items, it would fit very nicely in the MBP lineup.

Personally, I think with the introduction of hi-res OLED displays both internal and as standalone ACDs, I see a limited lifespan for a 17" laptop.

Understand your point.

However, with the long battery life, I see the MBP17 becoming more of a desktop replacement for many.

I guess it depends on what type of netbook/tablet is used. I don't think an iPhone OS mini-tablet would cannibalize the MacBook Air. A Mac OS X netbook would be a bit closer to the MacBook Air, but I still don't think there will be significant cannibalization.

That is a 64 dollar question for sure.

On some days I see an larger touch type tablet device. On others I see a tablet without keyboard, but a regular Mac OS X based computer. Then on others I see a MBA but with a 10 inch screen. Who knows?

As technology improves, the MBA becomes more viable for many as their laptop computer -- not just those who want a lightweight laptop.

I'm kinda on the same thought line as you, but I see the MacBook Air in 11", 13", and 15" sizes and the MacBook Pro becoming more high-end and remaining 15" and 17". Below the MacBook Air would be the mini-tablet.

Interesting.

I see the MBA lineup for those who need a lightweight laptop. So I don't see a 15 inch MBA. IMHO, a 15 inch MBA is too big for the concept. I do see a 10 inch version of the MBA and believe that it would fit in nicely with the netbook concept, albeit probably expensive.

Now that I think about it, keep the white MB. It would continue to exist for consumers who want a full featured laptop with optical drive but at low consumer prices.

Add a 13 inch model to the MBP lineup and now you have an easily distinguishable lineup.

White MB --> Full featured. Consumer oriented. Available in 13 inch.

MBA --> Lightweight lineup. Available in 10 and 13 inch.

MBP --> Full featured. Pro oriented. Available in 13, 15 and 17 inch.

I kinda see the distinction between the MacBook Air and the MacBook (Pro) as similar to the distinction between the iMac and the Mac Pro. And as we've seen with the Power Mac, it's moved up in price these past few years.

I think this would make it easier for Apple to focus on features and enhance each model lineup and options.

Maybe keep the white MB for the low end offering to consumers.

 

[RedTomato]

As technology improves, the MBA becomes more viable for many as their laptop computer -- not just those who want a lightweight laptop.

Probably. I used to require a desktop and regularly ground it to a halt. Now my main computer is a whitebook laptop. I stopped using my home desktop years ago. I almost never max the proccessor on my laptop with c2d and 4gb ram. (only sustained rendering or converting slows it down, short renders pass undetectably).

Since I got an iPhone, it's taken over many duties from my laptop. I use the iPhone for game playing, timetabling, some email, some web-browsing. I use my laptop a fair bit less now.

In a sense, it's my laptops' laptop. I now sort of regard my whitebook in the same way as I used to regard my old desktop - mainly for serious work that can't be done or is a pain to do on the iPhone.

I agree with you, the MBA can only get more powerful and more viable as a main computer.

 

[iMacmatician]

Now that I think about it, keep the white MB. It would continue to exist for consumers who want a full featured laptop with optical drive but at low consumer prices.

Sounds like the xMacBook.



With the carbon fiber rumor I think Apple could get a 15" MacBook Air to a similar weight as the 13" MacBook Air, although as you say it would be big. Personally I think I would be fine with the bigger display.

 

[iSlave]

There, some direct responses to your rather limited arguments.

haha...wow, I've really dented your ego on this, haven't I? Ah well, I suppose you have spent a lot of money on the MBA and, yeah, I'd be wetting my pants too if someone tried to tell me something I didn't want to hear.

If you like the MBA. Great. Congratulations. Let's hope it's a hit with the ladies. However, netbooks are a threat to the MBA, and cost about 10x less. Fact.

 

[iSlave]

More than a bit of generalisation going on here. My MBAs (before they returned to source) were more than adept at running Adobe CS4, not to mention OsiriX - lots of CPU and GPU horses required. Didn't break a sweat. I have a friend who uses his rev.B for FCP as well and loves it. Technical enough for you?

FCP huh? With no firewire. All those Alu Macbook owners are all totally wrong then..all this time, firewire didn't matter to video editing!

 

[iMacmatician]

Fact.

Do you have a source for this fact?