Nah. With common sense, you don't get infected on either, no "probably" about it. The difference between OS X and Windows is that few bother to write malware for OS X because so few people use it. This doesn't make OS X superior to Windows any more than the fact that Zunes are less likely to get stolen than iPods because so few people know what they are makes Zunes superior to iPods.
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Macbook or Dell XPS convince me!
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Nah. With common sense, you don't get infected on either, no "probably" about it. The difference between OS X and Windows is that few bother to write malware for OS X because so few people use it. This doesn't make OS X superior to Windows any more than the fact that Zunes are less likely to get stolen than iPods because so few people know what they are makes Zunes superior to iPods.
This. I hate the argument of "OSX is better because it doesn't get viruses." Anyone with common sense on a windows machine will never get a virus. OSX protects itself by being such a small and obscure percentage of computer users
I'm not even going to bother searching, because you have childishly posed the question knowing full well that probably no other brand uses a slot-laod optical drive (because they are less functional than tray drives) nor magnetic latches (again, because they are less functional than mechanical latches; & anybody who treats their laptop with even the slightest respect will never experience a broken latch).Oh, my experience must be wrong thenWifi on, internet browsing and word typing, backlight between 1/4 and 1/2, time on battery : around 5:40 hours. Battery is only couple of cycles old.
I did some serious market research before buying Macbook. There was no cheaper laptop suitable for my needs. Dell XPS M1330 (which has been the only closest competitor) is more expensive at the same spec than middle Macbook in my country. Would you be so kind and show me 13.3 notebook with slot-in, bluetooth, magnetic latch (mechanic latch often breaks, I have worked in IBM and Dell repair center), standard battery life 4+ hours that is cheaper than 1299 USD and is built by some at least mediocre brand (ie. no Acer, MSI, UMAX, VBI) ?
And I hate THIS argument. Everyone likes to talk about how nobody will write malware because Mac's marketshare is too small. This is BS. There are multi-millions of Macs being used and the marketshare has been growing gradually every year. Surely, somebody must want to put me in my place by now? Since using OS9 and then 10.1, I have never used anti-malware programs. I've been to some shady sites over the last number of years. NOT ONCE have I been infected. Surely, someone must think it's worth it to infect all those rich, arrogant Mac users?
When programs start auto-installing on my Mac, I'll eat my words. Until then, your words are empty.
I mainly agree with you. But I think Apple products also have an emotional factor on the purchase. We often buy things we don't need. For instance people buy huge SUV's, cars that can go beyond 330km/h, engines with 300hp or more. My question now is what for? Bigger is better? That's so primitive thinking.. How many times will you be able to go over 300km/h on a road? Why do you need engines with so much hp that consume so much gas if you follow limit speeds (or not)? I bet alot of people would buy an old beaten up ferrari instead of buying a new cheaper VW just because it's a ferrari.
My point is, people often don't make reasonable life decisions let alone a computer purchase.
Totally agreed. The ignorance and stupidity of the comments made by some posters saying Macs aren't worth the hackers time to write viruses for is outrageous!
Yawn, this is the same argument from 5 years and ago and since then Apple's computers have had a dramatic increase in market share and nothing has happened still.
Yeah, I read everyday how Mac users are really arrogant so why hasn't a hacker tried to rain on our arrogant parade? One word, Unix.
I'm sorry that people running a very insecure system such as Windows are in denial that the Mac OS X system is built upon a very secure system and they just can't stand the fact that Windows is beyond repair and will never be as secure as Mac OSX.
I don't care what kind of anti-virus/spyware that's installed on a PC I would never do online banking. Anyone that has done online banking on a PC well, let's just say your info has already been stolen.
No. Using the term 'multi-millions' is useless. What you should be looking at is the percentage market share; about 6%, or far too small to be worth the bother of virus/malware writers. I can't imagine OS X becoming a viable target for these groups unless Apple can increase their market saturation to maybe >25%. Anybody who thinks that OS X is virus free for any other reason than it's pathetically small market share is deluded; it's a commercial operating system popular with dumb consumers, as soon as there are enough of them the viruses will come.
Yes, that is correct, it was childisly posed just to make a point that there may be some people who don't look only at the HW spec (like you do) but are interested in added value (overall design, battery life, operating system, additional apps etc.). It means that some people may have (and they probably have, at least I do) different tastes and needs than you. I seriously don't care much about HW specs because for the work I do, it doesn't matter if it has couple GHz more or if it has powerful graphic card. What matters to me is operating system (Mac OS), battery life, size.
Another example is that I prefer slot-in optical drive because it makes loading CDs easier for me (l don't have to worry about breaking the tray), I don't use mini CDs so I don't mind that they won't fit in the slot-in optical drive.
So do you still think that different people don't have different needs and priorities and that they are being irrational when their preffered key product features don't match yours ?
You really believe the MacBook gets 5-6 hours of real world battery life?
Not even close. With wifi on and browsing the web using a reasonable screen setting (about 50% brightness) you'll get around 4 hours. Which is only about 30 minutes more than HP's and Dell's with 6 cell batteries on 15.4" screens get.
The only way you're going to get between 5 and 6 hours of battery life is if you set the screen to the lowest setting and turn wifi and bluetooth off and do some light typing in TextEdit.
Not to mention the MacBook only comes with a gig of RAM and the "new" GPU actually performs worse than the previous generation.
Don't get me started on the build quality of the MacBook either.
That's definitely a matter of opinion. OS X may be nice, but flexibility and the ability to choose from software and use high quality software is more important than a nicer OS that doesn't let you do as much.
Price should always be a consideration. It is absolutely ridiculous that Apple gets away with selling a system for around $1400 after taxes that only includes the worst of the worst GPU and 1GB of memory, when those selling for $400-$500 less have twice the HDD space, 2-3x as much memory, DVD writers that not even the $1100 Mac includes, similar battery life, bigger screens, better build quality, etc.
The timer in the menu bar is far from accurate. Theres been plenty of times where it told me I had more than 7 hours of battery life left when just booting up my system. Then an hour later it would fluctuate between 3:45 and 5 hours remaining. That timer is far from accurate.
The magnetic latch causes as many problems as an actual latch. Haven't you read all of the reports of the plastic around the LCD chipping off because of people having to use force to lift the lid? Or how about the plastic/rubber on the "top case"/wrist rest that gets broken due to the force of the magnetic latch?
Most Windows PCs don't even have latches any more. They just close. My HP doesn't have a latch.
Slot loading drive? That is a NEGATIVE. On most Windows PCs, a drive replacement consists of taking a single screw out and sliding the drive out. They also cost around $50-$60. On a Mac, you have to perform surgery and rip the entire system apart and put in a part that costs upwards of $200. Or you have to get it professionally repaired for $275 or more.
Again, the battery timer is NOT accurate. Real world will be around 4 hours of battery life. Which is hardly any more than what most 6 cell battery based notebooks get.
Apple doesn't build their notebooks either. They contract the same people that most other companies use as well, like Asus and Quanta.
Well, if people are visiting shady "adult" sites or clicking through sites on their google search for "free software downloads" then they deserve what they get. The same people who do that would be the same type of people who manage to screw up their OS X install as well.
Firefox has never allowed software to install without the users knowledge. This problem has been fixed for YEARS with Windows XP SP2 as well.
Any person who doesn't run Windows Update, or automatic updates in Windows, will be just as vulnerable on a Mac. Viruses won't be their problem on a Mac, but their own stupidity.
Seeing as how I've never been infected, nor any of my friends, in the 17 or so years I've been using Windows, AND XP SP2 and Vista do NOT allow background installations, your words mean absolutely nothing either.
See, now thats just ignorant.
The only way a Windows PC can be infected with anything is if the user lacks any amount of common sense and infects it themselves. The days of security holes that let software auto install are long gone.
Even with Internet Explorer. I don't mean IE7 either.
Added value?
Such as?
There isn't anything that OS X does that Windows can't do. Sure, iLife is a nice bundle. But, aside from iTunes and iPhoto, how often do you use the built-in applications?
I've used iDVD ONCE. I've only opened iMovie to see what it looks like. Garage Band I have played with maybe three times.
The design of the MacBook is nice, but it's offset by awful build quality and the fact that it can simply start to come apart at several points. Plus the system can crack at multiple points because of heat and an extremely poor cooling system. Then theres discoloration, chipping plastic, etc.
Once again, the battery life is not that great.
"Added value" comes from getting your moneys worth. For the price, the MacBook should at least come with 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, DVD writer standard, and a dedicated GPU.
Breaking the tray? Sure, if you hit it with a sledgehammer while its open. But the tray will have no problem absorbing the normal amount of "force" it receives from securing a disc.
A tray drive is almost always user upgradeable or replaceable as well. A $50 replacement if it dies. Not $200 for the drive and then $75 for labor. Or you can just upgrade it. With some companies shrinking the size of blu-ray and HD DVD drives down to standard sizes, it won't be too long before you can buy a blu-ray reader for your notebook and just pop it in. For the uninformed, systems today that ship with HD DVD or blu-ray drives built in (notebooks, not desktops) have slightly larger and non-standard size drives.
In a previous post in this thread, I already pointed out published vulnerabilities and a rootkit. Macs are being targeted with the market share they have already. Users with deputy_doofy's delusions of invincibility are only insuring that they'll never even know if their machine is infected.
I don't think I made myself clear enough, so I'll try approaching from a different angle. I fully appreciate that different users have different requirements; I have lost count of how many computers I have specced & built for myself, my family, friends & even on contract. Where Apple machines dismally fail wrt this respect is that they offer virtually no choices of hardware & whatever choice you go for you know that you will be paying far too much for it. You may not need a fast processor, but if you buy an Apple you will be forced to get one & also be forced to pay too much for it. Why pay such a premium for something you don't need?
It was actual time until it turned off. And yes it was light word processing / adium chatting, with bluetooth off, wifi on. Mainly the tasks I am doing when I am running from battery (ie. in college / café etc.)
Yes and as repair guy of supposedly superior notebook brands Dell and IBM I have lost any illusions about those brands and their build quality. Mechanical hatches were one of the common faults. So were faulty optical drives.
I am aware of that. And despite that I still prefer the comfort of slot-in optical drive. If my optical drive gets faulty, I'll have it repaired under warranty (planning to buy AppleCare anyway). And from my experience most of the optical drives fails within first year.
And I am using iMovie and iPhoto and iDVD regularly. Added value for me means the things mentioned in my post + the Mac philosophy. I don't want to care about drivers any more (I have had that enough from win 3.11 to vista), I want periferals to work after they are connected.
For example Creative Live External, for XP there are working drivers, for Vista there are half working drivers (only stereo), in Leopard I just connect it and it works. So does my camera and videocamera, printer and other periferals I am using on regular basis.
Because I do not pay for HW spec, I pay for the value that it has for me above other notebook brands. Except the features I mentioned, I started liking better the philosophy that something works and I don't have to care about that much and that is something I am willing to pay for, it saves me time.
Your post may be a controversial one even more on this forum community. But in my opinion a sensible post. Worth reading it.
While I do agree with some of your argument especially in terms of the lower end Macbook not having a Superdrive but for the love of pete name one notebook that cost less and has more features than the Macbook that has better build quality. Name just one.
My speculation is I think all you guys who talk about new MBP's bumped your heads.
So true. most sensible post yet. week after week they tell ppl to wait just one more week for updates...im glad i didnt hold my breath.
better build quality is relative. everyone has different opinions and experiences with computers. as much as you probably dont agree with my post, this very agrument is proof of that.
No one said it wasn't a consideration, just not always the most important consideration. Your proposed PC could be free, but it still wouldn't run OS X. And if running OS X is a purchase requirement, then price difference is secondary. You seem unwilling to understand that some people have different buying priorities than you.
Put another way, if you can sell us your cheaper computer running OS X, then you'll have a lot of interest. People love getting what they want for less. How about it?
i just went over to lenovo and specd out a 14inch t61. id argue the thinkpad has at least equal if not better build quality.
that gets you:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T7500 (2.2GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)[1]
Genuine Windows XP Professional[12]
14.1 WXGA TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965
2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm[4]
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim[5]
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ[10]
6 cell Li-Ion Battery[60]
7658: 1 Year Depot Warranty - Express
same price as a stock 2.2 white book
Well I've been waiting since December for Apple to update their MBP line to specs that more closely mirror its price tag. It is getting harder and harder each day to wait for this. At this point, without a price drop, it no longer makes sense to pay $2000 for a outdated machine.
I was looking forward to switching to a Mac notebook but, as before, they seem unable to satisfy (some) customer needs beyond a given time after release.
It's for this reason that I'm leaning towards convincing the OP to go with something other than an Apple product (I'm not so sure about Dell's quality).
I was looking forward to switching to a Mac notebook but, as before, they seem unable to satisfy (some) customer needs beyond a given time after release.
It's for this reason that I'm leaning towards convincing the OP to go with something other than an Apple product (I'm not so sure about Dell's quality).
i just went over to lenovo and specd out a 14inch t61. id argue the thinkpad has at least equal if not better build quality.
![t61ya6.jpg]()
that gets you:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T7500 (2.2GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)[1]
Genuine Windows XP Professional[12]
14.1 WXGA TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965
2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm[4]
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim[5]
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ[10]
6 cell Li-Ion Battery[60]
7658: 1 Year Depot Warranty - Express
same price as a stock 2.2 white book
Meh that's nice however I have been to Office Depot and they sell Lenovos for around $1000 and the plastics are quite cheap and creaky. This is not to say that all Lenovo's are built cheaply because from what I have heard not all of them are however I can't see or touch or feel the Lenovo you are referring to so your argument is moot.
By now you should know that Dell has made quite a bit of money by selling sight unseen and then when people receive it they are less then excited to find out that they have poor build quality. Thank goodness for best buy or I would never know how poorly built the Dell XPS 1530 is.
You can easily go into a Best Buy, Fry's or an Apple store and touch and feel Apple's machines and I beg to differ that anyone would say that Apple's notebooks have poor fit and finish.
I'd like to hear someone actually explain this comment with more than just "well it sounds logical" but you can't because it's not true. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
how is my argument moot just because you cant touch or feel it? thinkpads are not only well built, but you asked for a laptop that could compete with the macbook feature and price wise and i gave you one. just because i produced a laptop that had better specs for the same price doesnt mean you get to write it off because you cant go to a store and feel it. i found what you asked for, deal with it.
Apparently, I have delusions of invincibility. All you people with your stories of rootkits and viruses are telling just that - stories. I know how to run my utilities and make sure that all threads running are legit threads. Therefore, I would know if something was running that should not be. I also don't install things blindly. I understand the concept of trojans and how dangerous they can be, regardless of OS. Once again, people are pointing out a "low" marketshare of up to 6%, but I stress that Apple has been selling increasing millions of computers every year. Supposedly, Mac users have a higher purse to steal, or that's the thought anyway by the PC world. Why hasn't one PC hacker/virus writer taken the time to attack the multi-millions of Macs in the world to steal those stupid Mac user's bank accounts, since Mac users are smug about security? Your arguments are running dry.
Hey, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to. If you'd prefer to think OS X is ignored by spyware because it's impervious to spyware, go ahead. Lots of folks here still believe a Macbook is something other than a budget PC with an Apple logo and a TPM chip.
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