Macs to Get AI-Focused M4 Chips Starting in Late 2024

[Antony Newman]

Apple very likely has had two concurrent plans:
+) Prep a Mac Studio for M3 MAX on N3B (potentially with with more RAM and a nudge more clock frequency)
+) If TSMC N3E is on schedule in 2024_Q1, and testing of the M4 Brava stepping is good - hold back the Studio and Pro release (assuming information deliberately leaked to Gurman is accurate) to get a version of the M4 Brava in their Desktop lines in Q4.

… <snip>

It has just dawned on me that it was never possible to buy a Mac Pro with a M2 Max - Only an M2 Ultra.

If Apple want its highest end desktop users keep buying a larger ‘box’ that could take a future ‘M4 Extreme‘ (or rather an SoC chiplet with twice the thermal capacity of the Mac Studio) - then (I believe) they cannot release an update for the Mac Studio in 2024 without also updating the Mac Pro.

And if in 2024_Q4 the M4 Max outperforms the M2 Ultra Mac Studio - the HPC community will be less than impressed.

I speculate therefore that Apple will actually be offering a modest tiled (‘Brava’ chiplet) M4 this year for both the Studio & Mac Pro that hits the upper range of the Mac Studio‘s cooling capacity with the hefty copper heat sink. And either offer this versions to the Mac Pro with far more memory - or offer a second configuration in dual Brava version with twice as many tiles in 2025_Q1.

To eek out a decent performance jump on the Mac Studio (in the same thermal foot print) - it would likely need the TSMC N2P process in 2026 (with Backside power delivery and gate-all-around ‘GAAFET‘ transistors) - and so perhaps we will see the Desktops go from M2 -> M4 -> M6?

If buyers knew there was a 2 year desktop cadence - it might even prompt more of them to upgrade in This (M4) cycle.

 

[startergo]

Good job Apple. Downgrade the studio chips so people stop complaining about:
Why should I buy a Mac Pro when the studio has the same processor?
Now you give them a reason to buy the Mac Pro. Cunning.

 

[antonrg]

So if you continuously want to enjoy all the available features it would be a good idea to get the cheapest base device and update regularly.

The cheapest base device is not made for all professions. Some of us need a more powerful Mac and upgrading frequently is also not the best way to go.

 

[The Game 161]

given the way things are heading no surprise this will likely be a headline marketing feature

 

[seek3r]

The cheapest base device is not made for all professions. Some of us need a more powerful Mac and upgrading frequently is also not the best way to go.

For professional use you buy when you need to, it’s a capital expense. You dont need to upgrade a professional device for every wizbang feature either. I’m a software engineer, I’m not limited by my M1P MBP right now, I havent even considered asking IT to upgrade my machine, the machine does exactly what I need it to. When that stops being true I’ll request an upgrade

 

[Termy]

I just want to buy a M3 Max MacStudio… why is that so difficult Apple??

 

[Termy]

Apple very likely has had two concurrent plans:
+) Prep a Mac Studio for M3 MAX on N3B (potentially with with more RAM and a nudge more clock frequency)
+) If TSMC N3E is on schedule in 2024_Q1, and testing of the M4 Brava stepping is good - hold back the Studio and Pro release (assuming information deliberately leaked to Gurman is accurate) to get a version of the M4 Brava in their Desktop lines in Q4.

View attachment 2367809

A jump to N3E now would mean that Apple could move off N3B 3 x quarters sooner (N3B is more expensive / has lower yields than N3E).
It would also mean a bump in chip performance of approximately 17% [=32%/sqr(25%*30%) reduction in wattage].
It could get buyers of high end desktop to want to buy Now (and not wait for M4 max laptop at the end of the year).

View attachment 2367814

If Apple will have the optimised Apple10 GPU family ready in time for the next iPhone - or if they have decided that M4 finally makes the jump to ARM v9 (with performance enhancements for AI) - it would also seem likely that the Studio and Pro would end up with late Q4 release - and WWDC would be their chance to educate developers on optimising their software for the hardware that is coming out 5 months later.

Donan / Brava / Hidra

If Brava is being utilised for high end laptops and Mac Studio - I speculate that the Donan will be single chip designs - and the Brava and Hidra will be chiplet designs that scale (lego building blocks) according to the thermal power limits (using TSMC's latest SoC packaging magic).

I would also guess that if a potential Mac Studio purchaser had the choice of getting a new machine in June with M3 Max with improved clock rates and large quantities of RAM - or have to wait until November to be (almost) first in line to make use of the M4 architecture with a machine that is better suited to AI and ML ... that the vast majority would want to wait.

Yeah actually I would prefer not to wait because I don’t really care about the underlying architecture and Apples yield rates

 

[appleshmapple]

I'm waiting out the toothbrush mustache screen design for as long as I can. I just want the perfect rectangle screen back until I can take MacBooks seriously again. If I have to upgrade sooner than that, I'd rather buy the latest available non-notch design NIB from Ebay.

 

[seek3r]

I'm waiting out the toothbrush mustache screen design for as long as I can. I just want the perfect rectangle screen back until I can take MacBooks seriously again. If I have to upgrade sooner than that, I'd rather buy the latest available non-notch design NIB from Ebay.

Just buy the M1 macbook air from walmart for $699 if that’s how you feel 🤷‍♂️

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Now it's going to be AI everything because they don't know what else to market :/

And they will release some of the best AI features so that they only work with M4 machines, not because they can't or won't work with M3, but simply to push people to upgrade.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

M4 versions of the Mac desktops could support as much as 512GB Unified Memory, which would be a marked jump over the current 192GB limit.

And cost $3.4M for a maxed out 512GB RAM machine.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Because my M1 Max has the ugly notch which to this day I hate and the webcam isn’t even that good so they can change it

What? Simply either make your entire wallpaper plain black. Or if you don't want to do that, install one of the several 3rd party software apps that renders just the menu bar black. Either option makes the notch invisible, as all you have is a black bar across the entire top of the screen.

The only difference between this black bar, and the thick black bezel of the pre-notch machines, is that the new machines have the menu sitting where the bezel was, resulting in more screen real-estate for the same physical machine dimensions.

I forgot I had a notch shortly after I bought my 16" M1 Pro MBP, as I simply never see it.

 

[Tagbert]

I'm waiting out the toothbrush mustache screen design for as long as I can. I just want the perfect rectangle screen back until I can take MacBooks seriously again. If I have to upgrade sooner than that, I'd rather buy the latest available non-notch design NIB from Ebay.

Then just set the display to one of the 16:10 resolutions and then pretend that there is a bezel up above the screen.

 

[chucker23n1]

They need to get rid of the notch. Somehow their competitors are able to put a camera in a thin bezel but Apple requires a notch and yet it doesn’t even have Face ID so it’s a design compromise for no reason.

Name a competing laptop that's 1) similarly thin, 2) has similarly good build quality, 3) has a similarly good webcam, 4) has a similarly small bezel, yet doesn't require a notch or holepunch.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I'm assuming it's with regard to inference (which I didn't see mentioned on this thread yet) on an existing model (vs training a model)

This is what I imagine Apple optimizing for. The vast majority of users do not need and will never do any kind of training, but my boss uses Gemini every day to tone down her emails. The issue is that inference is slow on a phone. I'm sure Apple would want it to be at least as fast as Siri can be to respond.

 

[JensenKA]

Ready to replace my 2016 MacBook Pro with a Mac Mini, but it seems foolish to buy a M2 this late in the game, guess I’m waiting it out for the M4.

 

[appleshmapple]

Just buy the M1 macbook air from walmart for $699 if that’s how you feel 🤷‍♂️

Sounds like you're trying to say that because I don't like the notch that I'm poor. $699 is about what Apple Inc products are worth paying for, because they cheat their customers with RAM levels out of the era when the iPhone 1 was cool.

It's not a feeling, it's a preference. Do people leave stickers on sunglasses? Or on TV screens? Maybe some do, but to me it's the same thing. Visual garbage. Something I want to swat off the screen.

Why do you think Apple Inc uses dark graphics to obscure the presence of the notch as much as possible in all their web pages and ads? Because it looks ridiculous and they know it.

After writing that post I went to Ebay and bought a NIB 2019 MacBook Pro. Between the touch bar and the 1930s mustache, I chose the touch bar. I use external peripherals, so no big deal.

With their recent marketing and design choices Apple Inc keeps doing everything they can not to take any of my money. 🤷‍♂️

 

[bnumerick]

Sounds like you're trying to say that because I don't like the notch that I'm poor. $699 is about what Apple Inc products are worth paying for, because they cheat their customers with RAM levels out of the era when the iPhone 1 was cool.

It's not a feeling, it's a preference. Do people leave stickers on sunglasses? Or on TV screens? Maybe some do, but to me it's the same thing. Visual garbage. Something I want to swat off the screen.

Why do you think Apple Inc uses dark graphics to obscure the presence of the notch as much as possible in all their web pages and ads? Because it looks ridiculous and they know it.

After writing that post I went to Ebay and bought a NIB 2019 MacBook Pro. Between the touch bar and the 1930s mustache, I chose the touch bar. I use external peripherals, so no big deal.

With their recent marketing and design choices Apple Inc keeps doing everything they can not to take any of my money. 🤷‍♂️

You do realize you can easily adjust the screen so you never see the notch right? You literally just go into display preferences and toggle show all resolutions and select the one directly below the default. It sets the entire top of the screen to solid black and moves the menu bar down like the pre-notch days. I think people underestimate how black the screen gets and how well the notch is hidden doing this.

 

[seek3r]

Sounds like you're trying to say that because I don't like the notch that I'm poor. $699 is about what Apple Inc products are worth paying for, because they cheat their customers with RAM levels out of the era when the iPhone 1 was cool.

It's not a feeling, it's a preference. Do people leave stickers on sunglasses? Or on TV screens? Maybe some do, but to me it's the same thing. Visual garbage. Something I want to swat off the screen.

Why do you think Apple Inc uses dark graphics to obscure the presence of the notch as much as possible in all their web pages and ads? Because it looks ridiculous and they know it.

After writing that post I went to Ebay and bought a NIB 2019 MacBook Pro. Between the touch bar and the 1930s mustache, I chose the touch bar. I use external peripherals, so no big deal.

With their recent marketing and design choices Apple Inc keeps doing everything they can not to take any of my money. 🤷‍♂️

Counter point: do you think the only reason to buy a computer is how expensive it is? You’re sneering at the M1 MBA so instead you bought a machine significantly slower that runs a lot hotter, and that will likely be deprecated from latest OS support next year, just to avoid a notch you dont even need to buy? And you’re somehow proud of that?

 

[chucker23n1]

Sounds like you're trying to say that because I don't like the notch that I'm poor. $699 is about what Apple Inc products are worth paying for, because they cheat their customers with RAM levels out of the era when the iPhone 1 was cool.

Oh so you’re not “waiting out the toothbrush mustache screen design” but rather not interested in a Mac regardless.

 

[appleshmapple]

Oh so you’re not “waiting out the toothbrush mustache screen design” but rather not interested in a Mac regardless.

I used Macs exclusively for the past 11 years for home and work.

 

[appleshmapple]

Counter point: do you think the only reason to buy a computer is how expensive it is? You’re sneering at the M1 MBA so instead you bought a machine significantly slower that runs a lot hotter, and that will likely be deprecated from latest OS support next year, just to avoid a notch you dont even need to buy? And you’re somehow proud of that?

I wasn't the the one who brought up Walmart and cost. I operate a business. I think like a business. Value for the money is a factor. When I look at change logs for recent MacOS updates, I see them full of features that are useless fluff, cosmetic changes, change for the sake of change. Intrusive features that I instantly want to disable.

All I need is to do the work that I need to do and not be distracted or irritated in the process. It feels like MacOS continues to diverge further and further from that philosophy. An older machine is a better bet in terms of value for my time and money.

 

[appleshmapple]

You do realize you can easily adjust the screen so you never see the notch right? You literally just go into display preferences and toggle show all resolutions and select the one directly below the default. It sets the entire top of the screen to solid black and moves the menu bar down like the pre-notch days. I think people underestimate how black the screen gets and how well the notch is hidden doing this.

I hide all menus to have maximum usage of the screen. If I have to sacrifice any of it due to the notch, then why have the notch and not just a black bar there, like the older MacBooks used to in the first place? I understand that it works for some people and I respect that, but for me that's a hard pass.

The notches on iPhones were a hard pass as well. On the new iPhones, I can live with the dynamic island. I waited out the notch and got an iPhone 15. On my workstation, all I want is a proper rectangular screen.

 

[caioferrari]

I wasn't the the one who brought up Walmart and cost. I operate a business. I think like a business. Value for the money is a factor. When I look at change logs for recent MacOS updates, I see them full of features that are useless fluff, cosmetic changes, change for the sake of change. Intrusive features that I instantly want to disable.

All I need is to do the work that I need to do and not be distracted or irritated in the process. It feels like MacOS continues to diverge further and further from that philosophy. An older machine is a better bet in terms of value for my time and money.

All modern commercial systems and applications go through this. Cosmetic changes and unnecessary resource consumption. If you lived through the era of MacOS 9 or earlier, remember how it was to use a much simpler and cleaner interface system. Computers that ran the Classic MacOS very efficiently simply struggled with all those MacOS 10 animations. It took years to have computers that ran the new system as fast as a Mac from 1998 ran MacOS 9.
Regarding the notch, indeed, the company gave us a bit more screen with that hindrance. Not having the notch implies having less screen. This option seems to be in the system settings. But anyway, each of us has our 'no's...

 

[Ursadorable]

Apple isn't betting their AI platform on the Client. Their heavy lifting will include the Cloud.

So we have have more obnoxious and ideologically skewed AI like Gemini. No thanks. I prefer my AI to run local utilizing community created LLMs.