Major bug: iOS17.x not working as Finder Devices anymore!

[humpataa]

My first post, rather long, english not being my native language. So please forgive language mishaps, but I do want to share something odd that – in my eyes – is a serious (and I mean serious) problem that Apple needs to fix ASAP:

To get & keep Apple's FindMy network running, it needs so called "Finder Devices" – namely iPhones and iPads – that send encrypted packages including location and battery data to Apple's server whenever they "see" other devices around them. Every Apple product uses BLE to advertise themself so Finder Devices can "see" them and report their location.

Owners can then – using the FindMy app – request packages for their devices (such as MacBooks, iPhones or AirTags), decrypt them and show information about them – e.g. "last seen" of AirTags bound to hand bags or unicorn air mattresses. This has been working great in urban areas because of many Finder Devices being around. One of Apple's greatest ideas in the past years.

Unfortunately, update interval and accuracy of objects in FindMy app have become worse and worse and are getting worse every day.
Simple reason: devices having iOS17.x are not sending report packages to Apple's server anymore!

As there are literally millions of AirTags, AirPods and iPhones around and I cannot believe that this was made on purpose: it must be a major bug that came introducing iOS17.

Most of you will say: nah, it is working for me, see here, no problem. But that's just because there are still many old Finder Devices around. More and more people will turn off their old bricks and put them into a box under their bed. Or update to iOS17. Both adding to the inevitable result: the FindMy network getting weaker and weaker.

I have already filed a bug report 2 weeks ago, but have not received any response yet. Sure, Apple is a big company, I am just a small light. I have installed iOS17.4 beta yesterday and the problem still persists. To prove my steep thesis, I cordially invite you to test it on your own. If you get same results and report this to Apple, it would surely help to wake them up. Or show how feeble-minded I am. I’d be happy with both!

Be aware that making a serious test will not be easy for many of you, because of the dense area filled with old Apple devices. So if you live outside in the country or have lots of lonely land around you, please try:

Get an iPhone with iOS16.x installed, enable bluetooth, ensure internet access.
Get an AirTag of a friend – he being away at least a few 100 m (better 1 km, the AirTag must be in "lost" mode) – watching his phone (FindMy) having internet.
Get an iPhone with iOS17.x installed, disable bluetooth, ensure internet access.
Put both phones right beside the friends AirTag.
Let your friend WhatsApp you whenever the status of his AirTag gets updated. This will happen every couple of minutes.
Turn off bluetooth on iOS16, turn on bluetooth on iOS17.
You will no longer get messages from your friend, maybe because he is annoyed but most likely because the status of his AirTag will not update. For hours. For days.
Until you enable bluetooth on your iOS16 phone again.

Conclusion: Apple, we have a problem.

 

[humpataa]

17.4 beta 2 out and still not fixed.

Amazing: 400 views and nobody seems to care.
The FindMy network now depends on only 34% of all iPhones getting less every day (see post here).
Because all others have been updated to iOS17 which introduced the problem.

People complaining about wrong text size "bugs" and missing emojies – come on people, this thing is FUNDAMENTAL.
Test / recreate, file a BUG REPORT and post its number here. Please!

FB13567801

 

[JonaM]

I suspect it's nor so much that people don't care, but your problem is very difficult to replicate for most people - requiring two people, 3 devices including one running an old iOS that you can't install any more, a very large distance and a lot of time.

Anecdotally I'd agree with your observations though - I've noticed tracking AirTags to see where my luggage is at airports etc has become much slower and more glitchy ( often I'll get the notification from someone passing the AirTag with the location that they have just landed at, not where they saw the AirTag, so it seems to delay sending the message for a while and then only do the location lookup at the point it sends the message)

 

[VampyricGentleman]

I’ve been having problems intermittently with Find My since iOS 15. AirTags not updating my location, despite me being over 100 miles from home with them in my pocket showing as being at home and not updating at all during a day even though I work in an office with at any given time over 50 iPhones. The only fix was to re-pair my tags

 

[humpataa]

I believe this has nothing to do with the issue I am talking about.

 

[humpataa]

iOS17.4. beta 4: no change.

All (?) iOS 17 and up are still not contributing to Apple's FindMy-network anymore. Location updates and accuracy are very poor already, because the net now fully depends on older systems getting fewer every day.

Researching some more I found first notes of people having trouble around end of October 2023 after updating to 17.1 released 10/25/2023. Indeed Apple's version history mentioned a change to Find My because of HT213982 – maybe this unintentionally broke it?

I have also noticed that my old brick – 6s running iOS15.7, working perfectly as a "finder device" for the network – suddenly stopping to do so when I installed the "security update" 15.8.1 (end of January 2024). Looks like even these updates include the bug that breaks devices contribution to the FindMy network. So older devices are not immune thus the network's even more in trouble!

If someone has an old iPhone around (with iOS16.4 or before), don't update but PLEASE recreate the issue.

 

[humpataa]

Btw, I have mailed Macrumors twice without getting any reply. They reporting on this would surely ring the bell and possibly wake someone at Apple up. Well, they don't seem to care either.

 

[Apollo68]

Btw, I have mailed Macrumors twice without getting any reply. They reporting on this would surely ring the bell and possibly wake someone at Apple up. Well, they don't seem to care either.

Because you are probably one of very few people who have this issue. Not sure what you think macrumors is going to do that isn’t already flagged in their internal bug reporting.

 

[humpataa]

Not sure what you think macrumors is going to do that isn’t already flagged in their internal bug reporting.

Well, at least answer? And say that they have it in their "internal bug reporting". Or say "not interested".
I assume they surely have technical background to proof the issue. And "journalistic enthusiasm" to make a story of it.

 

[humpataa]

Because you are probably one of very few people who have this issue.

Oh and this is not just me, I am not sure why this is still unclear: it is an issue of the whole FindMy network. Not a local personal issue with one or two devices. EVERYONE has this issue.

 

[Apollo68]

Oh and this is not just me, I am not sure why this is still unclear: it is an issue of the whole FindMy network. Not a local personal issue with one or two devices. EVERYONE has this issue.

Haven't had any issues with it, including when I am out in the boonies. I think you are making a mountain from a molehill.

 

[Apollo68]

Well, at least answer? And say that they have it in their "internal bug reporting". Or say "not interested".
I assume they surely have technical background to proof the issue. And "journalistic enthusiasm" to make a story of it.

Let me rephrase, I meant apple's internal bug reporting database. Most journalists I know don't have technical backgrounds. This is macrumors, not phoronix.

 

[ManuCH]

You cannot say that "everyone" has this problem. That's definitely false. Your anecdotal evidence of your use case not working does not point to a global issue.

Counter-proof: I have AirTags that I sometimes leave at home. I only have iOS 17 devices, no old bricks lying around anymore. When I'm out and my partner is home (and he also only has iOS 17 devices), my AirTag positions get regularly updated. As soon as he leaves home, they stop updating. So obviously, his iOS 17 devices are acting as "finder devices".

Same example for another couple of friends of mine who use Find My with AirTags fairly intensively. It all works as expected and they all have iOS 17 devices only. And no neighbors with old bricks nearby either.

So while I am not excluding that there are no bug in the Find My network (there likely are many!), it's for sure not a thing that affects everyone, and for sure iOS 17 devices didn't stop being "finder devices", as I have solid proof of the opposite.

Could it be that more and more people have been going to Settings -> iCloud -> Find My -> Find My iPhone, and turned off "Find My network"? As some news sites have recommended doing that to save battery. I highly doubt Apple would have such a crazy oversight as to completely break the whole Find My network, considering they probably have a team working on just that specific part of the product.

 

[humpataa]

Counter-proof: I have AirTags that I sometimes leave at home. I only have iOS 17 devices, no old bricks lying around anymore. When I'm out and my partner is home (and he also only has iOS 17 devices), my AirTag positions get regularly updated. As soon as he leaves home, they stop updating. So obviously, his iOS 17 devices are acting as "finder devices".

Are your AirTags shared to your partner?
Any iPads with your AppleID near the tags when you leave without them?
Then none of your tags will ever be in "lost mode" thus not proofing anything.

Same example for another couple of friends of mine who use Find My with AirTags fairly intensively. It all works as expected and they all have iOS 17 devices only. And no neighbors with old bricks nearby either.

If the AirTags are in an urban area, there is no way to be sure nobody with old OS interfering. I get signals from iPhones 50 m away. Through walls! With respect, I found it hard to believe that you (and all friends) can be 100% sure to have only iOS17 devices around. That must be a rather rural area and again, the devices may not be "lost" so the issue doesn't show.

Could it be that more and more people have been going to Settings -> iCloud -> Find My -> Find My iPhone, and turned off "Find My network"? As some news sites have recommended doing that to save battery.

I believe this is only to en/disable network feature for THIS specific iPhone only and has nothing to do with internal behaviour in regards to working as a "finder device". The only way to disable is to switch Bluetooth permanently off (through settings, not via quick settings).

I highly doubt Apple would have such a crazy oversight as to completely break the whole Find My network, considering they probably have a team working on just that specific part of the product.

Me too, I still find it hard to believe. But I have watched and tested over weeks & months using different devices, phones, places and there's other people seeing it. All leading to only one explanation: a bug introduced with iOS17.1 (or even earlier) and copied to updates of no-longer fully supported devices (iOS16 and iOS15).

 

[Apollo68]

Are your AirTags shared to your partner?
Any iPads with your AppleID near the tags when you leave without them?
Then none of your tags will ever be in "lost mode" thus not proofing anything.




If the AirTags are in an urban area, there is no way to be sure nobody with old OS interfering. I get signals from iPhones 50 m away. Through walls! With respect, I found it hard to believe that you (and all friends) can be 100% sure to have only iOS17 devices around. That must be a rather rural area and again, the devices may not be "lost" so the issue doesn't show.



I believe this is only to en/disable network feature for THIS specific iPhone only and has nothing to do with internal behaviour in regards to working as a "finder device". The only way to disable is to switch Bluetooth permanently off (through settings, not via quick settings).


Me too, I still find it hard to believe. But I have watched and tested over weeks & months using different devices, phones, places and there's other people seeing it. All leading to only one explanation: a bug introduced with iOS17.1 (or even earlier) and copied to updates of no-longer fully supported devices (iOS16 and iOS15).

Perhaps you Have done something that is making your find my devices Fritz out. i fail to see how you can extrapolate your issue into something everyone is facing.

 

[ManuCH]

Are your AirTags shared to your partner?
Any iPads with your AppleID near the tags when you leave without them?
Then none of your tags will ever be in "lost mode" thus not proofing anything.




If the AirTags are in an urban area, there is no way to be sure nobody with old OS interfering. I get signals from iPhones 50 m away. Through walls! With respect, I found it hard to believe that you (and all friends) can be 100% sure to have only iOS17 devices around. That must be a rather rural area and again, the devices may not be "lost" so the issue doesn't show.



I believe this is only to en/disable network feature for THIS specific iPhone only and has nothing to do with internal behaviour in regards to working as a "finder device". The only way to disable is to switch Bluetooth permanently off (through settings, not via quick settings).


Me too, I still find it hard to believe. But I have watched and tested over weeks & months using different devices, phones, places and there's other people seeing it. All leading to only one explanation: a bug introduced with iOS17.1 (or even earlier) and copied to updates of no-longer fully supported devices (iOS16 and iOS15).

• no, my AirTags are not shared with my partner and we don't use family sharing
• no, I have my iPad with me
• no, my AirTags are not in "lost" mode. What does that have to do with anything? I can track my AirTags just fine when someone with an iOS 17 device is home. That's my point. Why do you mention "lost mode"?
• yes, I can be sure that there's nobody with old OS interfering, because my AirTags stop updating once my partner also leaves home. This is a modern building with thick walls where you don't even receive the neighbor's WiFi signal. No chance my AirTags get picked up by a neighbor's iPhone. And again: once we both leave home (and the AirTags stay home), there's no update. When he comes back, they start updating again. He carries an iOS 17 device.
• no, disabling "Find My Network" does not enable/disable the feature for that specific iPhone. It DOES have everything to do with the internal behavior in regards to working as a "finder device". Read Apple's documentation. What you say is flat out wrong.

I personally believe there is something wrong with your specific phone/account/AirTags, although hard to troubleshoot from here.

 

[humpataa]

• no, my AirTags are not shared with my partner and we don't use family sharing
• no, I have my iPad with me
• no, my AirTags are not in "lost" mode. What does that have to do with anything? I can track my AirTags just fine when someone with an iOS 17 device is home. That's my point. Why do you mention "lost mode"?
• yes, I can be sure that there's nobody with old OS interfering, because my AirTags stop updating once my partner also leaves home. This is a modern building with thick walls where you don't even receive the neighbor's WiFi signal. No chance my AirTags get picked up by a neighbor's iPhone. And again: once we both leave home (and the AirTags stay home), there's no update. When he comes back, they start updating again. He carries an iOS 17 device.
• no, disabling "Find My Network" does not enable/disable the feature for that specific iPhone. It DOES have everything to do with the internal behavior in regards to working as a "finder device". Read Apple's documentation. What you say is flat out wrong.

I personally believe there is something wrong with your specific phone/account/AirTags, although hard to troubleshoot from here.

Thank you for the details, no need to get rude please.
If you don't mind, please check what exact version of iOS17 you both are using. That could help finding when exactly the issue has been introduced.

I have read the documentation regarding how to enable / disable Find My Network. If this would be the reason it would mean that most (!) iPhone users have switched it off intentionally because it is on by default, isn't it? Btw I cannot even find the option on my 17.4 beta 4, at least not following the documentation. I think this is very unlikely.

Regarding "lost mode" – I believe you are mixing two things: the setting "lost" in FindMy app is completely different to "lost mode" of AirTags. AirTags "fall" into lost mode whenever they lose contact to it's owner (or shared). This is the time when they switch to advertising to be found by "finder devices". Switching them "lost" in your app just enables the app to search for them in close range (via Apple's magic chip), it has nothing to do with the FindMy network in terms of others reporting locations to Apple's server.

 

[ManuCH]

Thank you for the details, no need to get rude please.
If you don't mind, please check what exact version of iOS17 you both are using. That could help finding when exactly the issue has been introduced.

I have read the documentation regarding how to enable / disable Find My Network. If this would be the reason it would mean that most (!) iPhone users have switched it off intentionally because it is on by default, isn't it? Btw I cannot even find the option on my 17.4 beta 4, at least not following the documentation. I think this is very unlikely.

Regarding "lost mode" – I believe you are mixing two things: the setting "lost" in FindMy app is completely different to "lost mode" of AirTags. AirTags "fall" into lost mode whenever they lose contact to it's owner (or shared). This is the time when they switch to advertising to be found by "finder devices". Switching them "lost" in your app just enables the app to search for them in close range (via Apple's magic chip), it has nothing to do with the FindMy network in terms of others reporting locations to Apple's server.

I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to make a point and avoid information spreading about something being broken for everyone. I rather think there may be something specific that is wrong and buggy, and I'm interested in finding out what it is.

We are all on iOS 17.3.1.

And indeed it would be strange if most iPhone users switched off the Find My Network intentionally, as I believe only a few battery-obsessed nerds would do that 😉. So there must be some other reason as to why this is happening, although I cannot come up with other ideas for now.

Also, thank you for clarifying "lost mode", I just wasn't sure what you meant when you used that term. But then again, no way for me to know in what mode the AirTags are operating, as debugging options are very limited to non-existent.

Maybe that's a case for Apple Support? As it's also happening in non-betas to you, you can for sure get your case escalated to engineering, so they give you a profile to install on your devices to troubleshoot the issue. They do that sometimes if you are lucky.

 

[humpataa]

I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to make a point and avoid information spreading about something being broken for everyone. I rather think there may be something specific that is wrong and buggy, and I'm interested in finding out what it is.

Well, may I ask you to use a network scanner on your Macbook to see if there are indeed no "foreign" devices coming through the walls? Bluetooth Inspector is a simple and free (just for looking around) tool ...

Maybe that's a case for Apple Support? As it's also happening in non-betas to you, you can for sure get your case escalated to engineering, so they give you a profile to install on your devices to troubleshoot the issue. They do that sometimes if you are lucky.

That would definitely a nice move, but I have not received any reply yet, despite quite a few tries (even through my MFi developer account).

 

[ManuCH]

Well, may I ask you to use a network scanner on your Macbook to see if there are indeed no "foreign" devices coming through the walls? Bluetooth Inspector is a simple and free (just for looking around) tool ...


That would definitely a nice move, but I have not received any reply yet, despite quite a few tries (even through my MFi developer account).

I did check with Bluetooth Inspector but I couldn't see any foreign devices coming in through the walls.

Also, the experiment can be 100% reproduced:

• if I leave AirTags at home, and my partner stays home while I am gone, they get updated regularly
• whenever he leaves home too, and we are both away, the AirTags don't get updated anymore

This is just too much of a coincidence for it to be related to foreign, older finder devices. There is a direct correlation with him being home and my AirTags being updated.

Also, if I were you, I would try to open a new bug report using your developer account, but by enabling AirTags logging first using the profile you can download here: https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/profiles-and-logs/?name=airtags

 

[humpataa]

Also, if I were you, I would try to open a new bug report using your developer account, but by enabling AirTags logging first using the profile you can download here: https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/profiles-and-logs/?name=airtags

Thank you for the link, I'll check this.

I have made an extensive test yesterday again: three AirTags, two phones. No updates by iOS17.

 

[humpataa]

Also, if I were you, I would try to open a new bug report using your developer account, but by enabling AirTags logging first using the profile you can download here: https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/profiles-and-logs/?name=airtags

Thanks again for the link ... didn't know about it at all!

Unfortunately logging AirTags does not make sense, because I am not having difficulties with a certain AirTag but the network as a whole. iOS17 recognises AirTags around perfectly (alerts come up), so THIS works. But the information about them don't seem to reach Apple's server.
There is information about logging network traffic (tcpdump) as well, but that just leads me to something we have already done here: watch the traffic via proxy. iOS17 makes contact to the appropriate server just as iOS16 does. But because of "certificate pinning" (traffic encryption) there is no way to check if iOS17 is reporting anything or not.
It may as well be a server issue not storing the reports made by iOS17 devices. Or the server somehow not sending out the data on requests by Find My apps. All three lead to the same effect: iOS17 not participating in the Find My network as "Finder Device" anymore.

 

[ManuCH]

Thanks again for the link ... didn't know about it at all!

Unfortunately logging AirTags does not make sense, because I am not having difficulties with a certain AirTag but the network as a whole. iOS17 recognises AirTags around perfectly (alerts come up), so THIS works. But the information about them don't seem to reach Apple's server.
There is information about logging network traffic (tcpdump) as well, but that just leads me to something we have already done here: watch the traffic via proxy. iOS17 makes contact to the appropriate server just as iOS16 does. But because of "certificate pinning" (traffic encryption) there is no way to check if iOS17 is reporting anything or not.
It may as well be a server issue not storing the reports made by iOS17 devices. Or the server somehow not sending out the data on requests by Find My apps. All three lead to the same effect: iOS17 not participating in the Find My network as "Finder Device" anymore.

That all makes sense. I would just insist and send more feedback until someone reacts. Or try to call "regular" Apple Support and ask to be escalated to engineering. Sometimes people get lucky with that.

 

[humpataa]

This is just too much of a coincidence for it to be related to foreign, older finder devices. There is a direct correlation with him being home and my AirTags being updated.

One more question: have you set a home area / something like that for your phone? Or him?

And since you have all needed for a "real" test ... maybe it coincidences with a plan to go into rural places someday, you could try this. 🥰

 

[ManuCH]

One more question: have you set a home area / something like that for your phone? Or him?

And since you have all needed for a "real" test ... maybe it coincidences with a plan to go into rural places someday, you could try this. 🥰

No, we both haven't set any home area or anything like that.

And I will be happy to do that test once we happen to be in a rural area 😊