Mike’s Linux challenge - Does Linux "Just Work?"

[TiggrToo]

I think its pretty clear by what MS states what they're intending.
What is the Windows Subsystem for Linux?

@maflynn this is the original post I disgaree with:

Actually no, their stated aim was to make Windows a more attractive platform to developers currently using Macs to host their Web development.

(Emphasis mine)

I do not disagree that MS wanted to attract Linux developers. However the claim was made specifically about Macs - not Linux.

I see nothing in the WSL documentation (that, by the way started off as POSIX comparability long before Linux came into the name) that states that Microsoft created WSL to attract Mac developers.

 

[MisterSavage]

I always enjoy it when Linux "experts" tell me that I'm doing it wrong lol. Obvious flaws and problems with Linux and especially their distros are most likely a problem of the user, not the system, in their mind.

Screw that, Linux as a desktop environment is a fragile collection of open source software that works good enough for some veterans with fitting hardware, and is a miserable experience for the rest. It has been like this for decades and I don't see it change anytime soon

I'm nowhere near an expert but I don't agree with it being "fragile". I've used various flavors of Ubuntu and I've always found them to be rock solid. I haven't physically been in front of my work desktop computer for two years but I've been working from home by connecting to it and it has performed like a champ. The hardware is nothing special. Just regular Dells if I remember correctly and we put Xubuntu on them.

 

[maflynn]

However the claim was made specifically

And that's why Microsoft on their very site has this. Yes its developer stories but it shows Microsoft promoting the very thing that @ADGrant mentioned. I think its pretty clear that MS is using WSL to re-attract developers who have left for Linux and macOS. To me he provided the information you requested. You may not agree, but I think its fairly clear that MS is promoting the use of WSL for mac users, even if the WSL is has been designed with Linux developers in mind

 

[grmlin]

I'm nowhere near an expert but I don't agree with it being "fragile". I've used various flavors of Ubuntu and I've always found them to be rock solid. I haven't physically been in front of my work desktop computer for two years but I've been working from home by connecting to it and it has performed like a champ. The hardware is nothing special. Just regular Dells if I remember correctly and we put Xubuntu on them.

I should have been more clear, sorry. I meant fragile in terms of ui and ui frameworks, consistency, fragmentation, that kind of stuff. Linux itself runs very well without problems if the hardware is compatible and the system was set up correctly.

 

[MisterSavage]

I should have been more clear, sorry. I meant fragile in terms of ui and ui frameworks, consistency, fragmentation, that kind of stuff. Linux itself runs very well without problems if the hardware is compatible and the system was set up correctly.

Oh yes, now that I won't disagree with.

 

[TiggrToo]

And that's why Microsoft on their very site has this. Yes its developer stories but it shows Microsoft promoting the very thing that @ADGrant mentioned. I think its pretty clear that MS is using WSL to re-attract developers who have left for Linux and macOS. To me he provided the information you requested. You may not agree, but I think its fairly clear that MS is promoting the use of WSL for mac users, even if the WSL is has been designed with Linux developers in mind
View attachment 1931271

You're damn right I disagree.

Again, the claim was made (and this time with even more emphasis):

Actually no, their stated aim was to make Windows a more attractive platform to developers currently using Macs to host their Web development.

Still seeing absolutely NOTHING in any of these links that corroborates this claim.

Words matter, Mike. A "Stated aim" is akin to a mission statement. It's something that is issued by a business to explain the WHY behind a product. Not seeing ANYTHING yet that confirms that Apple Macs were the prime, or even secondary reason for creating WSL.

It's clear given the name that the product was aimed as LINUX developers - of which there's a good chunk of. "Why use your Distro when you can use Windows and have a full subsystem for Linux as well".

Again, words matter. If @ADGrant wished to state that this was his opinion that this was Microsoft's reasoning for WSL, then that's fine. They didn't though. They stated that this was a fact. The rules of MR state that citations are required when a user states what they believe is a fact. As a Moderator you should know this.

Microsoft providing links to other users who explain how they use WSL does NOT show that, when Microsoft created WSL, that they did so by making a PUBLIC STATEMENT that they did so to lure APPLE MacOS developers away from their devices.

 

[grmlin]

At least the docs are pretty clear about WSL, it's a Linux subsystem for developers.

It's also pretty obvious, Windows has been a bad choice for development for many many years before WSL. Unless you developed Windows applications, of course. WSL is their way out of it, as they can't get rid of the ancient Windows core

 

[nickdalzell1]

If Linux were made to appeal to the masses as Windows and MacOS, we'd have to deal with forced updates (you can't disable updates on Windows at all without a lot of work, and on Mac it endlessly nags you) and a UI that appeals to one specific demographic (apparently, a lot of folks enjoy the UI straight out of the 80's, flat UI design), and support cuts off at a certain point which means you need a brand new phone, computer or tablet. That's not sustainable at all. With Linux (and Android) you can disable auto updates and the nags for them, install whatever version of app you want (I tend to use a lot of Android 2.3 apps as my needs haven't really changed much) and with free development tools, you can use 'outdated' versions of both Linux and Android in 2021. Macs with PowerPCs have some of this love as well. Sometimes, you can force newer apps to run on an 'unsupported' device or OS and enjoy the best of both worlds. This also reduces e-waste. I can also make it as skeuomorphic as I want, and you can make yours as flat as you want. We have choice. If we got Linux where the 'masses' would like it, it'd be one UI, with a lot of power users left out because having too many buttons in front of a noob is bad for some reason, and forced updates, and planned obsolescence, complete with the FUD about how you instantly get hacked and the planet implodes from one person using an outdated version. No thank you.

 

[Queen6]

For me, one of the more destructive attitudes which impedes adoption is the arrogance and elitism of many (not all) linux proponents. Asking for help is too often looked down and there are folks that scoff at newbies asking for help. Mind you there are many others who are so helpful, but it only takes one arrogant responder to turn people off.

As for Windows and MacOS, I don't think they're dumbed down by any stretch, if anything Linux with its many distros is overly confusing and that is yet another factor in its inability to increase marketshare. How do you install or uninstall a program? Well that all depends on what distro and DE you're running - they vary wildly. My personal opinion but I would say windows is more efficient in its ability to do many tasks then Linux. I don't consider dragging and dropping dumbed down.

I heard something recently - the 20 second rule, basically if something takes more then 20 seconds to initiate, you're unlikely not continue to do that. If Joe Consumer can do what he needs to do on the mac or Windows, but its not very clear in Linux, he's going to use what works.

Perhaps its an old fashioned mindset but an operating system's job is to run programs, if you have to spend time googling on what to do, then its failing its primary role, imo


I think its pretty clear by what MS states what they're intending.
What is the Windows Subsystem for Linux?

Sadly that mirrors my experience of Linux Some are genuinely helpful, however some are intentionally malicious. For what reason who knows? As it doesn't help the cause or the platform, maybe that's what they want.

Frankly your right, it's elitism. I've stepped out of pace here and rightfully warned by the moderation team, equally I've always looked to help those in need irrespective of the users knowledge. This is why Linux will never take off as many of it's users are the platforms own worst enemy...

Q-6

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Some 40 or so years after the first cars appeared the User Interface (arrangement of steering, pedals, brakes, dash, etc
had settled down to pretty much what we have today.

It's about time that Operating Systems did the same. An OS should be simple enough that your grandmother can use it without having you on speed dial, but powerful enough that a programmer can accomplish their normal tasks.

The macOS interface has been pretty stable ins OS X 10.0. Yes, there have been some small changes, but not major ones.

That design has been so successful that Windows is now veering in that direction.

There is also growing interest in the Budgie/Pantheon style interface which borrows some elements of the macOS design. However, both of those hide/'dumb down' some useful elements.

I find that the Mate interface usually the most useful, efficient and powerful, but it is not good enough as-is.
I move the bottom panel to the left side, just to get it out of the way and install Plank as a dock. That gives me all the power and efficiency of Linux, but with the usability of macOS.

 

[Queen6]

If Linux were made to appeal to the masses as Windows and MacOS, we'd have to deal with forced updates (you can't disable updates on Windows at all without a lot of work, and on Mac it endlessly nags you) and a UI that appeals to one specific demographic (apparently, a lot of folks enjoy the UI straight out of the 80's, flat UI design), and support cuts off at a certain point which means you need a brand new phone, computer or tablet. That's not sustainable at all. With Linux (and Android) you can disable auto updates and the nags for them, install whatever version of app you want (I tend to use a lot of Android 2.3 apps as my needs haven't really changed much) and with free development tools, you can use 'outdated' versions of both Linux and Android in 2021. Macs with PowerPCs have some of this love as well. Sometimes, you can force newer apps to run on an 'unsupported' device or OS and enjoy the best of both worlds. This also reduces e-waste. I can also make it as skeuomorphic as I want, and you can make yours as flat as you want. We have choice. If we got Linux where the 'masses' would like it, it'd be one UI, with a lot of power users left out because having too many buttons in front of a noob is bad for some reason, and forced updates, and planned obsolescence, complete with the FUD about how you instantly get hacked and the planet implodes from one person using an outdated version. No thank you.

This why Linux is going nowhere fast;

Some are genuinely helpful, however some are intentionally malicious. For what reason who knows? As it doesn't help the cause or the platform, maybe that's what they want.

Frankly your right, it's elitism. I've stepped out of pace here and rightfully warned by the moderation team, equally I've always looked to help those in need irrespective of the users knowledge. This is why Linux will never take off as many of it's users are the platforms own worst enemy...

Q-6

 

[nickdalzell1]

All my issues were resolved via searching Google for help. I didn't need to join forums to get berated by any 'elites'. Seriously, we are not in the era where we must compile tar.gz files like in the late 1990s then compile X and hope it all boots up. There's literally a distro for any task and every person. I know everyone calls that fragmentation because heaven forbid that each person has different preferences and we must all live in a one-UI world where power users are treated automatically like idiots and you will take your updates and love it! Oh and don't forget to buy a new phone because in 4 years yours is no longer supported! You might become part of a botnet! honestly it all makes me sick to my stomach. We went from computer literacy to computer illiteracy in a couple of decades.

 

[grmlin]

Linux desktop systems work great until they don't. And Google won't help if you hit a wall that's unsolvable because of Linux and it's problems. It's not about "how do I unzip a tar.gz". It's when stuff doesn't work and you need to be a Linux wizard to solve it. Or you are wealthy enough to buy the hardware that works.

he macOS interface has been pretty stable ins OS X 10.0. Yes, there have been some small changes, but not major ones.

That design has been so successful that Windows is now veering in that direction.

I didn't want the old iMac of my wife's father to be disposed after he passed away. I was blown away about how little actually changed in all these years.

 

[c0ppo]

All my issues were resolved via searching Google for help.

Likewise.
But elitism in Linux community exists. Also, it exists in Win/Mac communities as well. But if I'm being honest, Linux is the worst in that regard.

Until big companies adopt Linux for desktop, Linux isn't going to explode. People need MS Office, Adobe and a bunch of other software. That's a fact. But it's also a fact that MS and Adobe won't adopt Linux. There is no incentive for them to do so.

So Linux will get a little bit better with each year. But it will remain as OS for enthusiasts. PopOS has become my main workstation OS. But I don't need Adobe, MS or any other 3rd party software. All I need is terminal, great code editor and a game engine that runs on Linux distros. And I have all of that.

Windows can't compete with Linux in my use case scenario. It's slow, bloated and annoying. But I'm in a minority. If I were to switch jobs and do something like graphic design, video editing or photo editing... I would need to drop Linux in a heartbeat. Lack of quality software in those areas means I would have to use Windows or MacOS.

And there is no point in arguing about OS anyways. Some simply like one OS more than other. Some use it because they've learned to us that particular OS. And some are even fanboys. It doesn't matter what's the case, just use what you want/like/need and respect that others don't have the same need like you do.

I for one couldn't use Windows as my only OS. I really hate it. But does that mean Windows is bad/sucks? Nope. Just that it's my own preference. Lots of macrumors users use Windows as their main OS. Even on a mac specific site like this one. So that means Windows isn't bad at all. It works for them. And thats great.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Well, I use Linux (and Android) specifically because it's for enthusiasts. Isn't life idiot-proof enough already? There's not enough competition for enthusiasts or power users today because everything has been dumbed down to the masses, forced updates, UI changes, and all. I'm happy that Linux hasn't fallen in that direction. If it ever did, there'd be nothing to turn to. As for MacOS not changing that much, where have you been since Yosemite?! They've flattened it and now it looks like a half arsed attempt at iPadOS. To this day I still cannot understand this obsession with flat UI design and 1980s interfaces. Talk about going backwards!

 

[grmlin]

Sometimes being enthusiastic isn't enough though. If the hardware you use isn't supported good enough (in my case a ThinkPad that should have great support btw lol), software you need doesn't work reliably or isn't even available in the first place. All my enthusiasm can't fix that.

Would I use it privately? Probably. If there was Lightroom or something available for it. So back to start again. It's a niche system that won't work for most people simply because they can't use the software they need.
I use Linux in WSL 2 everyday for work, and there is no way I could work without it. It's great for that. It sucks as a desktop system though for many like me.

Fun fact, I'm jealous that people like @c0ppo can use Pop as a daily driver, but I gave up.

 

[c0ppo]

Well, I use Linux (and Android) specifically because it's for enthusiasts. Isn't life idiot-proof enough already? There's not enough competition for enthusiasts or power users today because everything has been dumbed down to the masses, forced updates, UI changes, and all. I'm happy that Linux hasn't fallen in that direction. If it ever did, there'd be nothing to turn to. As for MacOS not changing that much, where have you been since Yosemite?! They've flattened it and now it looks like a half arsed attempt at iPadOS. To this day I still cannot understand this obsession with flat UI design and 1980s interfaces. Talk about going backwards!

In every field of our life there is something for enthusiasts.
For example, my brother is a enthusiastic about cars. He knows everything about them. He fixes his own car.
I can barely put gas in my tank. All I want from my car is to work so I can get from point A to point B. I don't care what brand of car I'm using. At all.

My brother can't understand me in that regard at all. On the other hand, he uses an iPhone and a Macbook Air. Doesn't even want to try out anything else. He will purchase a new iPhone every 4-5 years, unless he breaks his by accident before that year range.

See, I'm enthusiastic about IT in general. He is about cars. Someone else is about something else.
My brother just needs a smartphone. When he buys it, it doesn't bring him any joy. Same thing goes with me and cars.

Linux will always be there for us enthusiasts. But I for one can understand why some people simply can't stand Linux. Because it's annoyance to them. They are already used to Win/Mac and it works for them. They don't care enough to try something else, because it's of no interest for them.

I hate Windows updates. I hate MS pushing more surveillance with every new update. But I don't care, because I will start Windows just to test out my own software. And if I didn't have to do that, I wouldn't even have Windows installed.

 

[skaertus]

Well, I use Linux (and Android) specifically because it's for enthusiasts. Isn't life idiot-proof enough already? There's not enough competition for enthusiasts or power users today because everything has been dumbed down to the masses, forced updates, UI changes, and all. I'm happy that Linux hasn't fallen in that direction. If it ever did, there'd be nothing to turn to. As for MacOS not changing that much, where have you been since Yosemite?! They've flattened it and now it looks like a half arsed attempt at iPadOS. To this day I still cannot understand this obsession with flat UI design and 1980s interfaces. Talk about going backwards!

Sometimes being enthusiastic isn't enough though. If the hardware you use isn't supported good enough (in my case a ThinkPad that should have great support btw lol), software you need doesn't work reliably or isn't even available in the first place. All my enthusiasm can't fix that.

Would I use it privately? Probably. If there was Lightroom or something available for it. So back to start again. It's a niche system that won't work for most people simply because they can't use the software they need.
I use Linux in WSL 2 everyday for work, and there is no way I could work without it. It's great for that. It sucks as a desktop system though for many like me.

Fun fact, I'm jealous that people like @c0ppo can use Pop as a daily driver, but I gave up.

In every field of our life there is something for enthusiasts.
For example, my brother is a enthusiastic about cars. He knows everything about them. He fixes his own car.
I can barely put gas in my tank. All I want from my car is to work so I can get from point A to point B. I don't care what brand of car I'm using. At all.

My brother can't understand me in that regard at all. On the other hand, he uses an iPhone and a Macbook Air. Doesn't even want to try out anything else. He will purchase a new iPhone every 4-5 years, unless he breaks his by accident before that year range.

See, I'm enthusiastic about IT in general. He is about cars. Someone else is about something else.
My brother just needs a smartphone. When he buys it, it doesn't bring him any joy. Same thing goes with me and cars.

Linux will always be there for us enthusiasts. But I for one can understand why some people simply can't stand Linux. Because it's annoyance to them. They are already used to Win/Mac and it works for them. They don't care enough to try something else, because it's of no interest for them.

I hate Windows updates. I hate MS pushing more surveillance with every new update. But I don't care, because I will start Windows just to test out my own software. And if I didn't have to do that, I wouldn't even have Windows installed.

There are different types of enthusiasts.

I consider myself a tech enthusiast.

I have nothing less than 11 laptops at home. Just for me. And this is only because I gave away three other laptops to my sister (otherwise I would have even more). But that is not all: I also have two desktop computers. Plus, in less than a year, I bought 3 different smartphones, one tablet, and 4 wireless earbuds. Plus all the peripherals: webcam, mouse, keyboard, external HDD, and so on.

But I have not installed Linux on any of the laptops. The closest to it is my Chromebook which runs ChromeOS. All the other computers run either Windows or macOS. And this is because I cannot stand Linux.

I like to try new hardware and new software. But the lack of polish in Linux just takes away all the pleasure in using the computer.

The fact that I do not like Linux does not make me less of an enthusiast, at least in my point of view. Just an enthusiast who is enthusiastic about things other than Linux.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

All my issues were resolved via searching Google for help...

I, too find that many of my issues (with Linux, and macOS, and Windows) are solved by searching Google.
However, in many cases, those answers are there because others have asked for help on various forums for those same issues.

It seems to me that, in general, questions asked politely are answered politely. However, you should do your homework and look first. When you ask a question, say what you have already done to solve your problem.

People who just ask a question without looking are viewed as lazy. I have seen it on this BBS, where a question is asked and answered, then three posts below somebody asks the exact same question.

 

[ian87w]

I always enjoy it when Linux "experts" tell me that I'm doing it wrong lol. Obvious flaws and problems with Linux and especially their distros are most likely a problem of the user, not the system, in their mind.

Screw that, Linux as a desktop environment is a fragile collection of open source software that works good enough for some veterans with fitting hardware, and is a miserable experience for the rest. It has been like this for decades and I don't see it change anytime soon

Agree. Linux is rock solid for specific uses, but it will never “just work” for the general consumer computing needs. IMO That baton is already passed on to Android as the “consumer just-work Linux”, kind of. A consumer will find an Android tablet to be more workable and user friendly than a Linux setup.

 

[maflynn]

IMO That baton is already passed on to Android as the “consumer just-work Linux”,

Yes and no, I know it has linux roots, but imo, its similar to iOS coming from macOS. But I do agree with you on the consumer it just works and imo, the reason for that success is because its being run by one company who's controlling the product, i.e., one company pouring a lot of resources into improving it.

 

[maflynn]

Food for thought. I saw this a while ago, but the log4j vulnerability had me thinking.

Linux is not immune to malware and I can see bad actors focusing seeing linux as a potential cash cow, since many businesses run on linux

 

[MisterSavage]

Food for thought. I saw this a while ago, but the log4j vulnerability had me thinking.

Linux is not immune to malware and I can see bad actors focusing seeing linux as a potential cash cow, since many businesses run on linux

Definitely not. I had to spend some time last year dealing with DNS cache poisoning vulnerabilities (DNSpooq, SAD DNS, etc).

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Food for thought. I saw this a while ago, but the log4j vulnerability had me thinking.

Linux is not immune to malware and I can see bad actors focusing seeing linux as a potential cash cow, since many businesses run on linux

I know of at least one NSW State Department (no names, no pack drill) that uses RHEL as its backbone.
A few years ago the mail system was compromised, and all the names and email addresses were garnered by bad guys...

To protect against mail bombing, any departmental email account that issued spam was automatically deactivated within seconds.

Somebody got the list of a particular group of managers, some 3,000 of them (it's a big department), and botted them, getting those accounts to start spamming. Within a few minutes, all 3000+ accounts were deactivated.

It took us months to get them all working again.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

If Linux were made to appeal to the masses as Windows and MacOS, we'd have to deal with forced updates (you can't disable updates on Windows at all without a lot of work, and on Mac it endlessly nags you) and a UI that appeals to one specific demographic (apparently, a lot of folks enjoy the UI straight out of the 80's, flat UI design), and support cuts off at a certain point which means you need a brand new phone, computer or tablet.

Since when has Apple forced an update on a Mac??? My first Mac was a 2001 PPC Digital Audio with dual 500Mhz CPUs, which was later updated to 1Ghz G4 with dual Sata cards/drives and an updated video card.. It became my first whole house ATV server with three rooms of video and five audio in 2007/08. It could boot Classic OS9 and ran Tiger and Leopard.

I added a 2008 MBP (still running Mavericks with a new SSD and used as late as last year on a business trip for Skype and web browsing plus playing C64 games with a PS3 game pad from a lounger across the room connected to the 2K TV via a HDMI converter cable with my better than TV quality Bluetooth/RCA speakers. It "can't " upgrade to newer Mac versions, but it was never forced to upgrade (technically true of the PPC Mac). It's oddly usable with a 512GB SSD in it. Just don't try to multi-task too much with the browser open.

I'm still using my 2012 Mac-Mini server (quad i7 with 16GB Ram, a 2TB SSD and 5TB media drive internal plus another 10TB external for the whole house media server (which does more than ATV now with KODI on a NVidia Shield and Xidoo X9S and FireTV units around the house plus multiple ATVs. Not good for newer gaming, but what Mac is really these days? M1 is limited for GPS at the moment and while gaming support was getting better in 2012, Apple made sure OpenGL was abandoned before finishing it and Metal took forever to catch on. I haven't even looked lately. I have Windows 10 running on it too (software added on both sides let's them read/write each others drives so my KODI units have no clue which is running if I boot into the other.

Now THAT was some serious flexibility. I would have preferred Apple retain Intel (more than just Mac Pro) for awhile. Just when they added external graphics support, gone again. I don't really want to own a separate computer for gaming anymore and I've thus gone to PS4 several years ago (On 17 speaker home theater with 92" screen, but some games were more suited to desktop).

I tried Linux on/off since 1999. I even had a Matrix themed Black Box desktop that looked cool as heck back then, but dock management was a PITA as was learning (and eventually forgetting) much of the CLI environment. But oh I had a fully tabbed and multi-screen text only environment (like going back to Dos) at one point if I wanted to use it. Back then, then Internet was actually usable with the Lynx text browser and text only chat programs, email etc were available in addition to X. But the shine eventually wore off.

Compiling got old fast. OS "upgrades" never went without a hitch. Something was always screwed up and most programs needed recompiled sooner or later or outright replaced. Over the years, I tried OpenSuse, Mandrake, Mandriva, Red Hat, Linux Mint, Ubuntu and probably some others I'm forgetting.

I saw package managers get introduced with repositories in an attempt to make Linux more user friendly, etc. But a repository is only as good as its diligent maintainers. Browsers with security updates were always behind the direct releases. But that often meant compiling to get the self-updating version of Firefox, for example. No distro I knew of included it.

Compiling meant modifying. Why? Different distros put applications in different locations! Different window managers expected different icon sets, etc so you had to manually add the compiled stuff yourself and remember where it put it if you didn't change all the compiled destination locations (and sometimes library locations to compile). Does this sound like fun to you? If so, you might have no social life! Well, at least until you join the other elitist egomaniac that love to put down others not as "smart" as them. OTOH, is that really any different from the Apple Kool-Aid drinking types on here that defend Apple at all costs? They're just as intolerable and a turn-off IMO and it's gotten a lot worse over the years to the point I rarely contribute here anymore. There's one obvious one in this thread. You'd have to ignore at least half the site to avoid them, however.

Thus, I just avoid the site most of the time other than the articles. I'm not saying there aren't similar Windows fanboys that troll here as well over the years, but they rarely troll their own fellow users on Windows sites or perhaps there are simply more Windows sites that the egotistical can hang with their own kind?

That's not sustainable at all. With Linux (and Android) you can disable auto updates and the nags for them, install whatever version of app you want (I tend to use a lot of Android 2.3 apps as my needs haven't really changed much) and with free development tools, you can use 'outdated' versions of both Linux and Android in 2021. Macs with PowerPCs have some of this love as well. Sometimes, you can force newer apps to run on an 'unsupported' device or OS and enjoy the best of both worlds. This also reduces e-waste. I can also make it as skeuomorphic as I want, and you can make yours as flat as you want. We have choice. If we got Linux where the 'masses' would like it, it'd be one UI, with a lot of power users left out because having too many buttons in front of a noob is bad for some reason, and forced updates, and planned obsolescence, complete with the FUD about how you instantly get hacked and the planet implodes from one person using an outdated version. No thank you.

Yeah, I loved some of that later eye candy in Linux with rotating cube desktops etc al (the Mac only ever had the genie lamp window effect). I hated the move to flatland on the Mac. We went from awesome gel cap Aqua to boring metal Grey to flat pastel Easter world. Ugh. WTF thought that was a good idea? My grandmother would have liked it....