MP All Models My theory on why Apple announced new Mac Pro today - New mid-tower

[CWallace]

MY theory on why Apple announced the new Mac Pro today:

Apple is releasing a new Mid-tower next week and wants buyers that are hot for the pro to purchase the pro now - rather than potentially re-thing there purtchase when the mid-tower is announced.

Think about it...

But most of the Mac Pros have multi-week shipping dates, so if a new tower comes out next week, those orders can be canceled without any penalty.

And even if you did get a new Mac Pro, you can still take it back within two weeks for a refund (sans the open box fee and even that might be negotiated away depending on the retailer).

I would expect Apple to work within the existing form factors instead of introduce new ones. You could put a single socket systemboard in the current Mac Pro case designed to take a Core2 Duo or Core2 Extreme (Quad). That way, you leverage everything else about the Mac Pro, which helps control costs.

 

[Blue Velvet]

And the avarage photo nut does not need the mac pro.
But the mini is way too inpractical.

In what way is it impractical for the average user? This may come as a surprise to many here, but most people don't upgrade or even open their computers, they don't upgrade their OSs, they rarely attach peripherals beyond digital cameras and iPods and they think memory is the same as hard drive space.

 

[CWallace]

Does this mean no Blu Ray configs? I'd imagine they would've put it in their pro model

Sony just released a Blu-Ray player for the PC, so if you don't need a burner, you now have a much cheaper ($200) option.

My theory is that Apple's stock price has taken a beating in the past couple of days and they wanted to announce something to retard the slide.

And since each Mac Pro brings in nice profits, that would be the thing to announce.

 

[saltyzoo]

But I also don't project my wants as being some form of universal desire for a product, nor even as a profitable line for Apple.

I have to disagree with you. I think the market for what you want is huge (a lot of people want the same thing for very similar reasons. Personally, I need three of them for slightly different purposes, none of which are unique to just me) and could be very profitable for Apple.

 

[Blue Velvet]

I have to disagree with you. I think the market for what you want is huge...

Only if you read tech forums.

Just as anecdotal evidence, I can think of eight people I know (I'm leaving fellow designers out of the equation) who either use or want laptops or all-in-ones.

None of them are technically-inclined, they come from all kinds of backgrounds; hairdressers, lawyers, journalists, students... and they just want a neat and tidy machine that's easy to set up, easy to use and is something they don't want to think too much about.

Anyway, it doesn't matter whether you agree with me or not. The fact is that Steve Jobs and Apple don't agree with you and they're not fools about making, marketing and selling computers for the domestic user.

 

[steelski]

In what way is it impractical for the average user? This may come as a surprise to many here, but most people don't upgrade or even open their computers, they don't upgrade their OSs, they rarely attach peripherals beyond digital cameras and iPods and they think memory is the same as hard drive space.

This does not explain why there are many sites dedicated to hardware and why AMD and Nvidia just made a big bundle on the release of their new hardware. Also I dont think that avarage PC jocks really care about macs. But from what I have seen as a limited time as a mac lover is that there is no middle ground for most people. The Imac can not have a great screen attached to it. The Mini can not have more than a few Gig of ram and more hard drives. The middle ground would be a slower quad core machine with single slot and ability to 8gb ram. 1-2 PCi express slots. not to mention the use of the non buffred ram and normal non Xeon processors. I think I just described most photographers dream machine in mac form.

 

[TechHistorian]

The point is there is no machine that fits the description of a plain Mac. There is a "pro", a "mini", and an integrated machine.

The integrated machine "fits the description of a plain Mac." Remember the 128K? Or maybe you don't?

The Mac, as envisioned by Jobs back in '83, was to be an all-in-one machine with no user-upgradeable parts. All expansion was to be done by plugging in external devices. Sound like anything Apple sells right now? Heck, upgrading the memory in the iMac today is far, far easier than upgrading the memory in the old Plusses and SEs.

The iMac, in its current iteration, is pretty much what Jobs wanted back then. As long as he remains CEO, I doubt you'll see a mid-range tower. And the Pro is analogous to the old Mac II -- a machine designed originally for professional, workplace use, not gaming or consumer use. In fact, a lot of the games from the '80s wouldn't even run on anything but a 68000 processor.

Might Apple do better with a mid-tower? Maybe. But the clone era wasn't good to Apple. And in the long run, Apple's business plan and model seems pretty sound. Of all the companies making PCs thirty years ago, Apple is the only one that's really still a major player. IBM (which wasn't making PCs in '78), Commodore, Atari -- all by the wayside.

 

[saltyzoo]

Anyway, it doesn't matter whether you agree with me or not. The fact is that Steve Jobs and Apple don't agree with you and they're not fools about making, marketing and selling computers for the domestic user.

This goes back to my rebuttal of point one in my original post above.

This statement assumes "Jobs" and Apple will never change their mind about the market or introduce different products. Not likely. Things change. Don't be scared.

 

[ziwi]

Going to the single processor option knocks 500 USD off the base price. That makes it 2300, which is right where they want it, I think. Can't imagine them adding something as "boring" as a mini tower, regardless of the perceived demand .. heh.

Exactly - that makes it a buck more than the top iMac and then there is no room - this is why they have the single proc in the lineup to eliminate the missing price points that would dictate a new level of headless mac. I do not think they would atthis point pop for a machine that would eat into iMac sales

 

[Blue Velvet]

Things change. Don't be scared.

Heh. You are so lecturing the wrong person about change.

I'm not scared, just pointing out the obvious facts of the situation and trying to raise geek-heads above the narrow limits of their own needs and from those they listen to, and what most people want from a computer; the people who don't haunt computer forums, not the narrow, focussed view of those who care about AMD and Nvidia.

With the big trend towards real convergence of TV, web and computer, the stand-alone box could soon be history in the domestic space. Businesses might want mid-size towers, but we all know how much Apple cares about enterprise.

 

[krunk]

The only use I have for it, other than the server, is that if my Octo ever goes down at least I have the 2.66 as a back up.

~Crawn

Check out Xgrid. It's easy to set up and then you may be able to leverage some of that wasted power.

 

[TechHistorian]

This statement assumes "Jobs" and Apple will never change their mind about the market or introduce different products. Not likely. Things change. Don't be scared.

They did change. In the '90s. Apple (without Jobs) licensed clones. The clones nearly killed Apple. Change is not necessarily good. As I said previously, Apple really is the last of the original PC manufacturers still left standing. That says volumes about Apple's business model -- which is, by and large, the brainchild of one Steve Jobs.

 

[Le Big Mac]

The point is there is no machine that fits the description of a plain Mac. There is a "pro", a "mini", and an integrated machine.

How is the integrated iMac much different from the original "Mac"? Bigger monitor, faster processor, new ports and connections. but in principal the same: all-in-one monitor/cpu combo that comes with keyboard, mouse, software.

 

[takao]

Only if you read tech forums.

Just as anecdotal evidence, I can think of eight people I know (I'm leaving fellow designers out of the equation) who either use or want laptops or all-in-ones.

None of them are technically-inclined, they come from all kinds of backgrounds; hairdressers, lawyers, journalists, students... and they just want a neat and tidy machine that's easy to set up, easy to use and is something they don't want to think too much about.

i know a few of those too ... too bad they also "don't want to spend that much on a computer" (1200 bucks for basic imac) ... (if for every time i heard that i would have gotten 5 bucks i could buy the new mac pro )

macs are popular.. especially with those that actually know things about operating systems etc. ... those who don't know anything and don't care always get the cheap boxes ..because obviously they don't care

i know people who have macbooks
i know people who have windows/linux laptops
i know people who have windows/linux desktops
i know zero, zip, nada people who have a mac desktop (myself obviously not included)

actually i know more people who would be interested in a mac midi tower and who currently don't own a single mac than people who own macs

quote of flat-sharing friend who is currently a custom Debian/XP(for the games) user: "apple has really nailed down the best of both worlds with their operating system... too bad their desktops are too expensive" (for him neither the mac mini, imac count)

 

[Yvan256]

I wish we could ban the words "mid tower" from MacRumors. It ain't gonna happen!!

Apple likes its lineup and the demographics it serves.

Remember that "Apple switching to intel processors" and "Apple releasing a low-cost, head-less computer" also used to be in the "not gonna happen" category.

Add "Apple launches an MP3 player" and "The next Mac OS will be based on Unix" to the mix, and then we really can't be sure of what Apple is going to do next.

 

[takao]

Remember that "Apple switching to intel processors" and "Apple releasing a low-cost, head-less computer" also used to be in the "not gonna happen" category.

too true.. i can still hear the "a cheap head less mac will cannibalize imac sales" ringing in my ears

and people said "that the line up is fine" back then as well ...

 

[dante@sisna.com]

Does this mean no Blu Ray configs? I'd imagine they would've put it in their pro model

Apple is in no hurry to add Blue Ray as they want you to DOWNLOAD movies from their new download service to be announced via iTunes next week.

For those producing Blue Ray titles, Apple is smart enough to know that these folks will be more than happy with an external burner. Apple also knows this is a VERY small user group and not profitable.

 

[Silverhawk]

What frustrates me the most when a thread like this comes along the way, is the fact that we supporters of the "mid-tower" are always looked down upon. There's a reason why this type of model will always want to come up...

1) not all of us are fans of all in one systems (we like to take control of our parts like past users of the G4 Towers, did we forget those people)

2) not all of us want to settle for a Mac Mini (again another model we can't control over upgradeable parts)

3) most of all, the Mac Pro, as of today has become more expensive than ever (despite the hidden single core BTO option)

Obviously someone over there did hear enough cries for the 8800GT, which is totally fine because its still fairly new and it was the prime choice for the gamers who wanted just as good of a performance as those top of the line cards but half the price (though i'm still shocked they went with the 2600 as the standard, they should of gone at least the 3850)

Again least we forget that there was a huge market for after market parts of the old G4 towers (Macsales.com still sell them)

While the "Cube" may fall into that new huge gap, it would have to be able to allow us to upgrade when we want and not just settle after BTO.

And in theory if they want to make the TV better... just combine the Mac Mini and itself and call it a day, with dual-boot.

 

[Wild-Bill]

Heh. You are so lecturing the wrong person about change.

Hey, speaking of change. Thanks for nailing the coffin shut on the infamous Stoakely Seaburg Harpertown 2600 post, 165,000 views thread.

I suspect there will be far less bickering in this forum now that Apple has finally gotten around to updating the darn thing after 513 days.

BTW, there may be a handful of other threads that may need some nails.

 

[djejrejk]

What a great idea,.. a midrange tower. Too bad it will never happen. People want notebooks... not midrange towers.. thats where the market is headed. Remember the Gretzsky quote?

 

[panzer06]

What frustrates me the most when a thread like this comes along the way, is the fact that we supporters of the "mid-tower" are always looked down upon. There's a reason why this type of model will always want to come up...

1) not all of us are fans of all in one systems (we like to take control of our parts like past users of the G4 Towers, did we forget those people)

2) not all of us want to settle for a Mac Mini (again another model we can't control over upgradeable parts)

3) most of all, the Mac Pro, as of today has become more expensive than ever (despite the hidden single core BTO option)

Obviously someone over there did hear enough cries for the 8800GT, which is totally fine because its still fairly new and it was the prime choice for the gamers who wanted just as good of a performance as those top of the line cards but half the price (though i'm still shocked they went with the 2600 as the standard, they should of gone at least the 3850)

Again least we forget that there was a huge market for after market parts of the old G4 towers (Macsales.com still sell them)

While the "Cube" may fall into that new huge gap, it would have to be able to allow us to upgrade when we want and not just settle after BTO.

And in theory if they want to make the TV better... just combine the Mac Mini and itself and call it a day, with dual-boot.

Thank you for another view on this important topic. It's like we're not real Mac users if we want to see something more practical than a mini-iMac. I want to upgrade my system and the switch to Intel makes that more possible than ever. I hope Apple sees the light on this soon. We own a MacPro (purchased at great expense because we wanted an expandable computer for our daughter) and a MBP. We still have one PC that I would convert immediately if a reasonably priced upgradable solution was available from Apple.

As to the ATI 3850, I suspect they couldn't get enough parts. They are regularly in and out of stock along with their big brother the 3870.

Cheers,

 

[Blue Velvet]

What frustrates me the most when a thread like this comes along the way, is the fact that we supporters of the "mid-tower" are always looked down upon.

I don't think anyone is looking down on anyone, but people do get weary of rehearsing the same arguments over and over again with people not recognising the difference between their wants and needs, versus what Apple would have to do make this proposition viable and the historical track record of Steve Jobs. What makes anyone here think they know more about what it would take to produce and market this mythical machine than Apple?

Steve Jobs doesn't care about what the custom Debian/XP games-player wants, he's far more interested in what your families want from a computer... I mean, I'm a designer, and he's been quoted as saying he doesn't care about us either, even though it was the creative community that kept the company afloat through the bad times. But I also understand, that with the mid-range models, they're trying to do something a bit more ambitious and appealing to the general public than pandering to a fringe market who want to tinker with their machines.

The other thing is, of course, that anyone who knows Apple's history will also know how their fingers were badly burned with the proliferation of models and configurations back in the day, causing tremendous confusion amongst consumers.

So, yeah. One day, this machine might happen, but I doubt it. Not because I don't want it to, or have no need of this machine; it's just that with the iMac there, it's unlikely.

And what's more, I believe that Apple are truly casting around for the next huge thing in computers, content and interface; something that will really capture people's imagination and that it will not involve a mid-sized tower.

 

[sushi]

If only... along with instant bans for anyone who posts a topic about the store being down

The mid tower won't happen, evar, if you ask me.

Agree.

In the 90's Apple had too many models, plus the clones, and it was confusing.

When SJ returned in the late 90's, he simplified the line-up to the following:

Professional Line --> Desktop and Laptop

Consumer Line --> Desktop and Laptop

Basically, that is what we still have today, plus the Mac Mini.

This helps Apple focus on their market and be more cost effective. Apple is in new waters so to speak with the Intel Macs. In the old days, we waited and waited for updates to the PPC chips. Today, with Intel the updates are much more frequent. So Apple must adapt to this new update model.

I saw were some were complaining about the Mac Pro not being redesigned. Sure the outside looks roughly the same sine the Mac Pro G5s, but the insides are much different. Same for the MBPs. They look like the PowerBooks but are completely different on the inside -- which is what really counts.

Personally, I would rather Apple spend their limited resources on upgrading the insides of all of their products rather than change the outside look.

...oh and create an ultra-portable laptop!

 

[maccompaq]

I find it very interesting that so many "Experts" adamantly say there will not be a mid range tower. They cannot see inside Steve Jobs head. How can they be so certain?

Just wait until next Tuesday, and you will have an eye opener.

 

[jnc]

Quad core 2.8Ghz XEON at the same price as a 2.8GHz C2E iMac?

=

NO mid-tower. A fourth desktop, when the low end Mac Pro essentially IS a mid-tower? Confusing amount of product lines? So not the Apple way.

I AM STEVE JOBS. but I still cannot see inside my own head.