NDS4iOS Nintendo DS Emulator Now Available to Download

[Renzatic]

Again, I ask you for a cite. I linked you to the Betamax decision which established that the product must have substantial non-infringing uses to avoid contributory infringement. You acknowledged that this emulator does not. Why are you ignoring this?

And I did, you're just choosing to interpret it differently.

The Betamax decision requires that a product has substantial non-infringing uses to avoid contributory infringement. Emulators do. They're used all the time, from freestanding emulators such as MAME, to various smartphone ports.

An emulator, by itself, is entirely legal. It's copying functionality from one piece of hardware to another. The fact it can run rom images doesn't make it any more or less illegal. For an emulator to be useful, it has to be able to run the software for the platform its targeting, and running software from another platform is the accepted and primary use of emulators.

So the emulator code by itself, using nothing but homebrewed code reverse engineered from another platform, is perfectly legal. The fact you can download a rom off the internet, despite it's "intended" use for only being for images ripped off media you own, doesn't make it any less legal. It's potential for abuse doesn't mean it WILL be abused. Buying two Betamax players to pirate rented movies doesn't make Betamax illegal, but the availability of Betamax players does make it possible to do so.

Emulators are legal. Roms and other copyrighted works are illegal. Therefore, emulators distributed without any copyrighted materials are legal.

And a link.

 

[BaldiMac]

And I did, you're just choosing to interpret it differently.

The Betamax decision requires that a product has substantial non-infringing uses to avoid contributory infringement. Emulators do. They're used all the time, from freestanding emulators such as MAME, to various smartphone ports.

An emulator, by itself, is entirely legal. It's copying functionality from one piece of hardware to another. The fact it can run rom images doesn't make it any more or less illegal. For an emulator to be useful, it has to be able to run the software for the platform its targeting, and running software from another platform is the accepted and primary use of emulators.

Again, you are arguing that because some emulators are legal, all emulators are legal. That has no legal basis.

So the emulator code by itself, using nothing but homebrewed code reverse engineered from another platform, is perfectly legal. The fact you can download a rom off the internet, despite it's "intended" use for only being for images ripped off media you own, doesn't make it any less legal. It's potential for abuse doesn't mean it WILL be abused. Buying two Betamax players to pirate rented movies doesn't make Betamax illegal, but the availability of Betamax players does make it possible to do so.

Emulators are legal. Roms and other copyrighted works are illegal. Therefore, emulators distributed without any copyrighted materials are legal.

Did you bother to look at the definition of contributory infringement?

One who knowingly induces, causes or materially contributes to copyright infringement, by another but who has not committed or participated in the infringing acts him or herself, may be held liable as a contributory infringer if he or she had knowledge, or reason to know, of the infringement.

And a link.

None of the cases cited address contributory infringement and a lack of substantial non-infringing use.

 

[Renzatic]

None of the cases cited address contributory infringement and a lack of substantial non-infringing use.

What? Do you want me to light up a big neon sign right in front of your face that spells it out for you in big block letters? I've made my case. They're legal. What you're talking about has no bearing on the topic as a whole.

They're legal. Their legality has judicial precedence. I've provided links stating as much. Any cases that sites contributory infringement in relation to emulators have never been brought up in any cases related to their legality, and are therefore completely inconsequential to the discussion at hand.

Edit:

One who knowingly induces, causes or materially contributes to copyright infringement, by another but who has not committed or participated in the infringing acts him or herself, may be held liable as a contributory infringer if he or she had knowledge, or reason to know, of the infringement.

So you're saying that acting as a potential enabler of piracy makes it entirely illegal? Why is Bittorrent not illegal then?

Ask yourself this, Nintendo has been trying to put emulators out of business since the SNES days. Sony has taken two companies to court over releasing commercial emulators of their hardware. Why have they not brought this up? Why did they not go in front of a judge and say "Your honor, these emulators can and will be used to facilitate piracy of software designed for our machines, and should therefore be considered illegal since that's their obvious intended use".

...well, I'd say they have at some point, but I can't find any links for it. But if that were all it took to prove evidence of damages, you think they would've done it by now.

But they haven't, because the major and accepted point of emulators is being able to run software designed for one piece of hardware on another, and how people choose to get that software has nothing to do with its perfectly legal intended use.

 

[inlovewithi]

Exactly. Nintendo needs to get with the times or they'll end up screwing themselves. Sega were sensible with switching to software only Nintendo may end up needing to go that route if they dillydally for too long.

Nintendo still makes a profit.

It's so annoying seeing people obsessed with a corporation thinking that another corporation should just stop what their doing, ruin their business and sell dollar games on Apple OS, because the people suggesting it feel as if the world revolves around Apple. It's that logic that's annoying.

----------

Apple isn't on the verge of bankruptcy because of strict adherence to a dated business model . . .

Neither is Nintendo.

And what dated business model is that when video game companies always do new things in every generation? Not selling things on the iPhone is sooooo dumb and outdated I guess. Not everyone thinks Apple is god so you have to understand that your views might be warped.

If they were to sell games on non Nintendo systems, it would make more sense to sell them on Steam, or even PS4 and XBOX One. But that's not going to happen anytime soon, since Nintendo has a significant amount of more money than Sega did.

 

[Internaut]

Why doesn't Nintendo simply cut a deal with Apple, make an emulator of its own, and sell Mario Karts through Apple's App Store?

 

[shandyman]

NDS4iOS Nintendo DS Emulator Now Available to Download

Nintendo still makes a profit.



It's so annoying seeing people obsessed with a corporation thinking that another corporation should just stop what their doing, ruin their business and sell dollar games on Apple OS, because the people suggesting it feel as if the world revolves around Apple. It's that logic that's annoying.

----------





Neither is Nintendo.



And what dated business model is that when video game companies always do new things in every generation? Not selling things on the iPhone is sooooo dumb and outdated I guess. Not everyone thinks Apple is god so you have to understand that your views might be warped.



If they were to sell games on non Nintendo systems, it would make more sense to sell them on Steam, or even PS4 and XBOX One. But that's not going to happen anytime soon, since Nintendo has a significant amount of more money than Sega did.

Actually Nintendo said in January they do not expect to turn a profit this financial year. Nintendo are clearly on a downward trend finicially, or are you ignoring that fact?! I mentioned Sega, because I'd Nintendo don't sort something, they're going to end up doing the same as sega or going bust.

I never said they should stop doing their consoles, but should do it in addition. Additionally I never said they should only do it on Apple devices, I said all mobile devices. Go back and read my posts before shouting me down.

Nintendo selling on steam, xbox, & ps4 is the wrong idea as it will impact their own console sales. You clearly do not grasp the point here do you?!

Just to make it clear, what I was saying is Nintendo should sell their old, previous gen games (NES/SNES/GBA/GB/N64/GameCube) on mobile devices (iOS, Android, Windows Mobile) since this is a market they don't have any real prescience in, which will boost income, whilst keeping current gen stuff to the current devices, so they don't impact sales on there.

That clearer?

 

[Carlanga]

I knew it would come to this to be able to play Zelda & Mario games of newer generations.

It surprisingly works pretty well on my 5S

 

[Michael Goff]

Anyone who thinks that Nintendo's long term strategy should be to port their games to iOS, and pretty much get rid of their only profitable console, is obviously kidding themselves.

Edit: As for selling older things, it wouldn't be worth the cost. A lot of people here might buy it, but they would have to do a huge overhaul of those games.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Why doesn't Nintendo simply cut a deal with Apple, make an emulator of its own, and sell Mario Karts through Apple's App Store?

Because Nintendo, like Apple, makes a huge amount of money on hardware sales.

 

[Tech198]

wait a second..... an emulator on iOS to play Nintento games, but you need to set the clock back first ?

If it was legit, why do you need to fool iOS regarding the clock ?

The article just proves it "it can bypass the App store entirely"

This is what JB'ing is for

 

[Carlanga]

wait a second..... an emulator on iOS to play Nintento games, but you need to set the clock back first ?

If it was legit, why do you need to fool iOS regarding the clock ?

The article just proves it "it can bypass the App store entirely"

This is what JB'ing is for

The issue is apple does not permit emulators even if they are on the legal side.

You fool the clock once only if you are NOT jailbroken. You need to set the clock back because the dev acct got terminated and thus be able to install their app to the moment the cert was official.

If jb then just add the source and install it.

 

[Tech198]

You fool the clock once only if you are NOT jailbroken. You need to set the clock back because the dev acct got terminated and thus be able to install their app to the moment the cert was official.

exactly,, then in other-words a 'hack' (or since i must be technically correct for MR people.. ) a by-pass

 

[shandyman]

Anyone who thinks that Nintendo's long term strategy should be to port their games to iOS, and pretty much get rid of their only profitable console, is obviously kidding themselves.



Edit: As for selling older things, it wouldn't be worth the cost. A lot of people here might buy it, but they would have to do a huge overhaul of those games.

No one has said they should get rid of their consoles, apart from those not reading peoples posts fully.....

Considering Nintendo are not expecting to make a profit this financial year, they should consider it. Again, you're not reading peoples posts, no talking about needing to overhaul their old games. Simply making something like this app in the article, using the old games as they are. There's clearly a huge demand for them. They could easily make a profit of £1m just by getting all the old pokemon, Mario & Zelda games out there in an emulator, selling them for £1 per game on IAP.

Because Nintendo, like Apple, makes a huge amount of money on hardware sales.

Yet they're expecting to not make a profit this financial year....

The issue is apple does not permit emulators even if they are on the legal side.

Actually you're wrong. Straight off the bat, theres ZX Spectrum emulators in the App Store, which even has the basic screen.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The Mac OS being free is a very recent development. Mac OS X has historically been priced between $99 and $129. Mac OS 9 (and before it, Mac OS 8, System 7 etc) generally cost about $99 as well.

If you think they don't make any money off of it though, you're kidding yourself. Direct access to the iTunes and App Store = making money.

That's missing the point. OSX, iTunes, App Store, none of them is a main profit generator for Apple. In the large scheme of things they are just components that are meant to make Apple product more enticing at this point.

Even monstrously successful iTunes and the iOS App Store aren't a big profit generator relative to Apple's current operations. Selling OSX for other platforms will do very little to make money for Apple, and in terms of opportunity costs things may even be negative.

On the contrary, Nintendo makes money directly off selling software and that's their biggest money maker. Their hardware margin is getting squeezed lower and even a net negative range and their consoles aren't selling as well as the previous generation.

Again, the more analogous situation would be Apple making iPods and iPhones OSX only.

 

[Carlanga]

Actually you're wrong. Straight off the bat, theres ZX Spectrum emulators in the App Store, which even has the basic screen.

Actually you are wrong. That one for example comes w the games and you have to buy additional games as IAP. You can't load your own. There are many like this ones hat are official ones that don't let you load your own roms. We are talking of unofficial LEGAL emulators here where one can load their own roms.

 

[shandyman]

Actually you are wrong. That one for example comes w the games and you have to buy additional games as IAP. You can't load your own. There are many like this ones hat are official ones that don't let you load your own roms. We are talking of unofficial LEGAL emulators here where one can load their own roms.

It's still an emulator and there's additional games. Also it let's you do BASIC on it. Me, and others, have never said about loading your own ROMs, just about other games being available. It's all been a general debate about emulators, apart from you and 1 other who are then throwing in a stipulation of adding your own ROMs.

 

[Michael Goff]

No one has said they should get rid of their consoles, apart from those not reading peoples posts fully.....

Considering Nintendo are not expecting to make a profit this financial year, they should consider it. Again, you're not reading peoples posts, no talking about needing to overhaul their old games. Simply making something like this app in the article, using the old games as they are. There's clearly a huge demand for them. They could easily make a profit of £1m just by getting all the old pokemon, Mario & Zelda games out there in an emulator, selling them for £1 per game on IAP.





Yet they're expecting to not make a profit this financial year....




Actually you're wrong. Straight off the bat, theres ZX Spectrum emulators in the App Store, which even has the basic screen.

They're not expecting a profit this year because of lackluster Wii U sales. If they were just going about making handhelds, they'd be doing better right now. And that's just the market that would be hit if they started to sell games on iOS devices.

And yes, they technically run on an emulator. I suppose if you think that the average person is alright with lackluster quality, sure, they could just do the same thing the average emulator does.

It's a good thing nobody here runs Nintendo, you'd be making their losses even bigger.

 

[shandyman]

NDS4iOS Nintendo DS Emulator Now Available to Download

They're not expecting a profit this year because of lackluster Wii U sales. If they were just going about making handhelds, they'd be doing better right now. And that's just the market that would be hit if they started to sell games on iOS devices.

Well done for not reading my posts properly. As I said, only releasing previous gen games on an emulator, whilst leaving current gen on the 3DS/2DS, would not impact on their handheld market. If anything, it might increase them, as people may rediscover some classics and want to play the newer games.

Doing this will gain them profit from the people that don't want a 3DS but still want to play some classics. Their 3DS sales aren't massive either, thus the release of the 2DS out of desperation.

There are so many people in the gaming industry are saying this is the way forward. People more knowledgable than you or I, yet you're claiming they're wrong and Nintendo will be worse off?!

And yes, they technically run on an emulator. I suppose if you think that the average person is alright with lackluster quality, sure, they could just do the same thing the average emulator does.

Well considering the amount of interest in emulators, I think you're thoroughly underestimating it. Sega released the original sonic a few years back, which was extremely popular. Last year they updated it and improved graphics, but prior to that it was the same game and graphics as when it was released on the console.

 

[Michael Goff]

Well done for not reading my posts properly. As I said, only releasing previous gen games on an emulator, whilst leaving current gen on the 3DS/2DS, would not impact on their handheld market. If anything, it might increase them, as people may rediscover some classics and want to play the newer games.

Doing this will gain them profit from the people that don't want a 3DS but still want to play some classics. Their 3DS sales aren't massive either, thus the release of the 2DS out of desperation.

There are so many people in the gaming industry are saying this is the way forward. People more knowledgable than you or I, yet you're claiming they're wrong and Nintendo will be worse off?!





Well considering the amount of interest in emulators, I think you're thoroughly underestimating it. Sega released the original sonic a few years back, which was extremely popular. Last year they updated it and improved graphics, but prior to that it was the same game and graphics as when it was released on the console.

Same graphics doesn't mean same code.

I'm going to assume you knew that, though.

 

[shandyman]

Same graphics doesn't mean same code.



I'm going to assume you knew that, though.

Well if some random programmers can knock up an emulator app that works, then I'm sure Nintendo, the professionals who designed and made the devices, can make it work. Or are you just being deliberately obtuse?!

 

[Michael Goff]

Well if some random programmers can knock up an emulator app that works, then I'm sure Nintendo, the professionals who designed and made the devices, can make it work. Or are you just being deliberately obtuse?!

So Nintendo should put a lot of developer time into a good iOS emulator, then they should put their games on there, then they should keep working on it for security sake and likely improving speed, all for the hope that enough people will be nostalgic enough to make it profitable?

That's a lot of "if" and not likely a good idea.

Also, a lot of people in the gaming industry once said that the Android consoles were going to take off. That still hasn't happened.

 

[shandyman]

NDS4iOS Nintendo DS Emulator Now Available to Download

So Nintendo should put a lot of developer time into a good iOS emulator, then they should put their games on there, then they should keep working on it for security sake and likely improving speed, all for the hope that enough people will be nostalgic enough to make it profitable?



That's a lot of "if" and not likely a good idea.



Also, a lot of people in the gaming industry once said that the Android consoles were going to take off. That still hasn't happened.

Not just for iOS, all mobile devices. Additionally, they already have emulator software already, along with games, most of the legwork is already done. There is a large market there waiting to be tapped, it's not hope for a market, it's an actual market! So it's not as much time needed as you imply. Again, many industry experts have said this is a way to go. These are experts. There was talk that GBA4IOS had about 1 million downloads in the first week, if Nintendo did an emulator with one or 2 games free, then offered a game via IAP for £1 each, that's a lot of income right there. Sell all the old Pokemon games, how many of them were released on the game boy?

Brining up android consoles is random, irrelevant and off topic. Additionally, you never know, although consoles may be a bit of a wrong term, but with all these chromecasts, Amazon firebox, the high potential for Apple TV to bring in games (which you can kind of do already almost), So they're not too far off the mark, the experts are not wrong, just maybe a bit ahead of their time.

 

[Michael Goff]

Not just for iOS, all mobile devices. Additionally, they already have emulator software already, along with games, most of the legwork is already done. There is a large market there waiting to be tapped, it's not hope for a market, it's an actual market! So it's not as much time needed as you imply. Again, many industry experts have said this is a way to go. These are experts. There was talk that GBA4IOS had about 1 million downloads in the first week, if Nintendo did an emulator with one or 2 games free, then offered a game via IAP for £1 each, that's a lot of income right there. Sell all the old Pokemon games, how many of them were released on the game boy?

Brining up android consoles is random, irrelevant and off topic. Additionally, you never know, although consoles may be a bit of a wrong term, but with all these chromecasts, Amazon firebox, the high potential for Apple TV to bring in games (which you can kind of do already almost), So they're not too far off the mark, the experts are not wrong, just maybe a bit ahead of their time.

You're willfully missing the point. Most "games industry experts" are essentially analysts. They don't have some mystic powers.

Also, you're assuming even half of the 1 million downloads would pay 1$ per game. These are all assumptions.

The better thing to do would be to put their back catalogue in their store, get paid 5$ or so per title, and use it to sell their 3DS or 2DS.

 

[shandyman]

NDS4iOS Nintendo DS Emulator Now Available to Download

You're willfully missing the point. Most "games industry experts" are essentially analysts. They don't have some mystic powers.



Also, you're assuming even half of the 1 million downloads would pay 1$ per game. These are all assumptions.



The better thing to do would be to put their back catalogue in their store, get paid 5$ or so per title, and use it to sell their 3DS or 2DS.

I'm willfully missing your point as it's flat out stupid. I bet the experts are a better judge than you. Share with us your professional experience/qualifications that make you better than games jndustry professionals. Even the financial times, a reputable paper, posted an article saying Nintendo should do emulators on mobile devices to target the market their missing out on.

There was talk that GBA4IOS had about 1 million downloads in the first week, if Nintendo did an emulator with one or 2 games free, then offered a game via IAP for £1 each, that's a lot of income right there. Sell all the old Pokemon games, how many of them were released on the game boy? I just checked coolroms and Pokemon emerald has 34,737,676 downloads. There's your market right there. Bearing in mind that the people using emulators at the moment is kind of a niche audience, if general joe public were aware, then those numbers would only increase.

They already offer a back catalog on the 3DS/2DS, but the sales of the device are poor in comparison to the mobile device audience.

 

[Michael Goff]

I'm willfully missing your point as it's flat out stupid. I bet the experts are a better judge than you. Share with us your professional experience/qualifications that make you better than games jndustry professionals. Even the financial times, a reputable paper, posted an article saying Nintendo should do emulators on mobile devices to target the market their missing out on.

There was talk that GBA4IOS had about 1 million downloads in the first week, if Nintendo did an emulator with one or 2 games free, then offered a game via IAP for £1 each, that's a lot of income right there. Sell all the old Pokemon games, how many of them were released on the game boy? I just checked coolroms and Pokemon emerald has 34,737,676 downloads. There's your market right there. Bearing in mind that the people using emulators at the moment is kind of a niche audience, if general joe public were aware, then those numbers would only increase.

They already offer a back catalog on the 3DS/2DS, but the sales of the device are poor in comparison to the mobile device audience.

And how many of those millions would PAY FOR IT? I really don't think you, or the supposed experts, get it. A lot of people go to ROMs because they're free and easy.