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kwajo.com

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2002
895
0
Bay of Fundy
I think everyone is omitting the electronic lifestyle device that is currently a monopoly: robotic pets. Sony's AIBO is the only thing like it on the market for the price. Now if Apple could make a dog, cat, or hamburglar that had Apple style and innovation, imagine what it could do! I think this is the best idea yet, and frankly I would buy two of these (in order to train them to fight, and start a "cockfighting" type business). Don't thank me just yet, but I think I have solved the mystery. You're welcome.
 

funkywhat2

macrumors 6502a
Jul 14, 2002
669
0
OOOH! ANOTHER TV box! Maybe it can be black, and have a 68K processor. Oh, wait, they have that already!

There are way too many historical references in this thread. If it failed once, and it failed every other time it was tried, then why would they risk it again?
 

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lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
Originally posted by Natron
How much of a market is there for an home entertainment device like the one we're describing?? I, for one, really hope a device like this will happen, but I was just wondering what kind of market there is for it. Seems to me, it's pretty similar to the way the MP3 player market was when they introduced the iPod.

Apparently Sony is pushing the ability to view pictures on TV's, with the recent commercial with the guy calling his son to figure out how to view his pictures. He just plugs the memory stick into the TV.

I figure a device like we are describing would be better than that, since you can store all the pictures in one place.

-Natron

And let's not forget Rendezvous, the technology that will tie all these devices together. This is the advantage that Apple would have in the marketplace, I think, since it's a technology that they developed and thus have a head start in. The ease of use will be compelling enough get people to buy Apple products, including their computers.

To all those who say that Apple can't compete in crowded, competitive marketplaces, just take a look at the MP3 market. I don't see how the MP3 market was less competitive than any other consumer electronics market when Apple entered it. I mean, every single consumer electronics company probably came out with their own MP3 player at one point.

Apple was able to design a superior product, though, by signing an exclusive deal with Toshiba for its smallest hard drives, and leveraging its Firewire technology. Apple's product was compelling enought that it was able to capture a market-leading 15% of the MP3 player market, despite the fact that for much of the product's existence it was only able to synchronize with Macs, and even now it can only synchronize with a PC through Firewire which very few PCs have.

I mean, you would have to call the iPod an unqualified success. If Apple could gain 15% market share for a couple more digital consumer electronics products (set-top box, PDA/phone), it's entirely conceivable that Apple could soon make more money from its "digital hub" products than from the Macs themselves. And this would only serve to increase Mac market share because it would increase the visibility of the Apple brand...
 

lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
Originally posted by crazy_will
If it failed once, and it failed every other time it was tried, then why would they risk it again?

Because not every other set-top box has failed in the market. The Tivo/Replay DVR products are a huge success. If Apple could combine DVR with integration with various consumer products via Rendezvous, I think they'd have a winner on their hands. And the iPod proved that Apple doesn't have to be price-competitive with whatever else is in the market, if their product is superior. So if the lowest-end DVR box is $300, I think Apple could sell their product at $500 or more if it's compelling enough. Then again, if the box doesn't even have a hard drive - if it just records and plays video from a computer's hard drive via Rendezvous, it's entirely possible that the unit could cost $300 or less, though of course you'd need a computer with a beefy hard drive to store the video. And that's just video. Imagine also if the box had audio connectors so you could hook it up to your stereo or to speakers and play from your iPod or your iBook (iTunes) wirelessly via Rendezvous. Or you could show pictures from iPhoto on your TV. Also, the box could have a built-in 6-in-1 media card reader to show pictures or play music directly from a media card (for those non-Rendezvous enabled devices...)

I really think the Rendezvous set-top box is Apple's next killer product. It goes right along with their developing Digital Hub strategy, and would justify their investment in developing the new Rendezvous technology. Surely Rendezvous is not just for "discovering" iChat buddies or printing wirelessly! Think about it. It would tie together the Mac and iPod, their two biggest products, by allowing either to play wirelessly through the TV (for pictures and video) or through the stereo (for music). Of course, this implies that the iPod must be Bluetooth and Rendezvous enabled.

If Apple is really developing these type of products the way I hope they are, then I can see how Steve Jobs was justified in saying that 2003 will be Apple's most important year ever. 2003 could be the year that the Apple brand becomes synonymous with the Digital Hub, despite Microsoft and Sony's best efforts to achieve leadership in that area. Even if Apple doesn't achive the highest market share in Digital Hub products, I believe they will achieve at least the 15% market share of the iPod, and will definitely continue to lead in terms of innovation, design, and mindshare.
 

rdas7

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2002
165
22
London, England
I agree, Imalave.

In regards to, "if it failed once, why try again?" from crazy_will and the historcal posts of the QuickTake and (presumably) a prototype Pippin, the answer is this: all those old products were part of the old Apple, where the products were released to market in a completely unrelated way to the rest of the company. The QuickTake was released, but no iPhoto to go with it...

Apple are obviously working to a plan here, and some of the most underrated techniques have worked for them to great success: I remember way back when seeing Steve revamp the Apple product line into distinct categories (home/pro, portable/desktop). It is simple techniques like these that other companies are now bringing back, (like Nokia now distinguishing between consumer and business users, etc.) that simplify for the consumer, while focusing the company to specific and set goals. Remember when we were all wondering what the missing square was?

From a software standpoint, all their core investments seem to finally be at a point where they can start to complement each other - Rendezvous with iTunes, Firewire with iMovie/iPhoto, etc. All these things seem to point to a new device(s) which would put Apple far ahead of the pack.

After all, the only other company out there with such ability seems to be Sony (who make the memory cards that go into their cameras and then into their tv's, as illustrated before). A company like Microsoft would still need to develop an iTunes rival before making an mp3 player that was in the same league. And this goes for all the technologies...

So, anyway, I was thinking further about the QuickTime playback device, or Rendezvous set-top box - whatever we're going to call it:

What if the form factor was indeed that of a PDA? I was intrigued by dhunwick's confidence in a PDA device, but then tried to imagine what Apple would try and come up with.

I would assume that if it were a PDA, it would indeed be similar to the iPod (an iPad?). Hard drive memory instead of flash ram. Color screen - it would have to be.

But what OS would it run? Obviously not OSX. So have Apple been developing a 3rd OS? 1 for the iPod (I know that wasn't Apple, though), 1 for desktops (OSX) and a 3rd for a PDA?

If it were to have a hard drive, it would need a firewire connector. Data sizes are just too huge nowadays for anything else.

Bluetooth connectivity for basic functions like synching and connecting to your cellphone for comms.

Airport for high-speed access?

I don't know... this idea all falls apart for me, as the form factor just keeps on expanding - until I'm left with either a 12" iBook (hmmm... lovely) or a Newton 2100 form-factor (and we all know what's wrong with that).

As for functionality, what would it offer? Addressbook, mail, calendar... mp3 playback (compete with the iPod? possibly, if it were marketed as an "iPod-Pro") What else could they possibly stuff on it? With limited I/O speeds and small screen, I doubt you'd want to use it for webbrowsing - Sherlock perhaps? And why would anyone buy this considering Palms go for $100 now and there's a whole community of applications and developers?

Hardly something "revolutionary". Even if they pulled it off, it would still just be another PDA. Thanks. The world doesn't have enough.

But howabout if the Rendezvous settop box was built more in the form-factor of an iPod (ie. built to put in a bag and take to your friend's house, but not for use on busses and trains?). Would that make a difference?

I just see the argument for a PDA this way: when at home/work use a desktop. When travelling, use a laptop. When in between, use a mobile phone (most all phones nowadays have addressbook, mail and calendars). As long as they all talk to each other (iSync) what is the added value of a PDA? No wait, don't tell me. It's so I can store more than 150 phone numbers at a time in color.
 

rdas7

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2002
165
22
London, England
OK, I GOT IT...

Ok, ok... I got it.

Perhaps there's an update to the iPod (iPod 2?) which enhances the current mp3 decoder to a full QuickTime-player, enabling you to play QuickTime movies on the micro-screen. Perhaps the screen is color. Perhaps they've added video-out (to connect it to a tv set).

Maybe it's just as simple as those 3 "minor" updates.

(The "QuickTime Player" would mean you can play back mp3's as well as mp4's, mov's, mpgs, and whatever else.)

Wouldn't that, in essence, be our Rendezvous device? Perhaps add built-in bluetooth for iSynching more seemlessly. Throw in a 40gig hard drive.

Could they get away with calling this a PDA? After all, the current iPod already stores addresses and calendars...
 

rdas7

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2002
165
22
London, England
Ok, so this is what we've got:

iPod2

- 40GB internal hard drive
- Bluetooth
- Firewire
- Rendezvous enabled
- full QuickTime media playback (mp3, mp4, mov, etc.)
- Color screen
- Video Out port (to tv)

iPod2 builds on experience and expertise that Apple already has: similar battery life to iPod, same great design, same ease of use. In fact, the OS for the iPod is already designed for navigating media (selecting files, scanning through files, fast forward, rewind, etc.). This is as applicable for an mp3 song as it is for a movie file.

Just as iPod (1) synched with iTunes, iPod2 will sync with iTunes, iPhoto, iCal & AddressBook so you can take your digital photo albums with you wherever you go and display them on other people's television screens or on the built-in display.

Here are some mock-ups for your amusement. Do you know, the "more than just music" slogan is straight from the apple.com/ipod page... spooky.
 

Natron

macrumors member
Oct 26, 2002
96
0
How small can these larger harddrives be now? From what I understand, the 20GB is about the max size they can currently fit in the iPod, while keeping it close to the same size. They are probably working on smaller drives, but I don't think they'll have 40GB drives just yet.

-Natron
 
Re: New Apple toys to play with

Originally posted by Padrote
Apple has create something really profound to shake up the computer world, and get it out of its current slump. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple enters the world HDTV.

How about a hybrid HDTV Monitor with a built-in Hard Drive to record HD programs, and a DVD-R to burn these HD programs on to DVD's. With the style and design of apple, we can only hope to get something so imaginative and meaningful.

I could imagine a TIVO type recorder, but HDTV is too storage intensive and the current crop of DVD players are not compatible with it.
An HDTV recorder would have to record 4 times as much picture info as regular DVD or 16 times as much as a TIVO's VCD quality. Combine some iTV software with an iHub blue tooth device that allows your Mac to shuttle picture & video information to a box that connects to your TV and stereo... that would be sweet....

That's what I could imagine. What I expect is to come away from MWSF disappointed... - j
 
Re: Tivo type device..please

Originally posted by dhunwick
Those of you expecting something like that will be sorely dissapointed!

Especially since it already exists.
EyeTV

It's Apple integration and software design that would bring out the usability of such a system. If they could get around the low-res limitations of EyeTV, then it would be interesting. Of course, in terms of mpg's and digital cameras, many people have favored convenience over quality... - j
 
Originally posted by rdas7
Ok, so this is what we've got:

iPod2

- 40GB internal hard drive
- Bluetooth
- Firewire
- Rendezvous enabled
- full QuickTime media playback (mp3, mp4, mov, etc.)
- Color screen
- Video Out port (to tv)

iPod2 builds on experience and expertise that Apple already has: similar battery life to iPod, same great design, same ease of use. In fact, the OS for the iPod is already designed for navigating media (selecting files, scanning through files, fast forward, rewind, etc.). This is as applicable for an mp3 song as it is for a movie file.

Just as iPod (1) synched with iTunes, iPod2 will sync with iTunes, iPhoto, iCal & AddressBook so you can take your digital photo albums with you wherever you go and display them on other people's television screens or on the built-in display.

Here are some mock-ups for your amusement. Do you know, the "more than just music" slogan is straight from the apple.com/ipod page... spooky.

If a 20gb mp3 playing iPod is $500, having all this stuff on there will get you into the $800 range. That's a heck of an iToy! Any device that's going to be a "hit" will have to start no higher than $400, preferably $300.

Just put an mpg and jpg manager on the current iPod screen with some RCA output cables for playing little movies and slideshows on televisions. That seems doable for adding less than $100 to the current pricing... - j
 

rdas7

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2002
165
22
London, England
Yeah, good point about the price, etc.

I think everyone's getting a little hung up on the "record-tv-programs" aspect of it. What I had in mind was really adding functionality to the iPod (ONE feature being a video-out port).

In another thread on macrumors here, someone was pointing to a Japanese device which is essentially a video screen the size of your palm. This unit is apparently an mp4 playback device of some kind. The problem that I've got with completely new form-factors is the issues raised regarding user-interface and hardware design.

Everyone has lauded the iPod's ease-of-use, etc. - why would Apple want to leave the scroll-wheel input method for something completely new? Unless they have indeed been developing a 3rd OS for PDA use.

dhunwick seems to think so.

Come on, man - we've put in the legwork on this. Haven't you got any other hints? You've already said it's going to be a PDA. If it is indeed another Palm unit with an Apple logo on it, it's hardly the "revolutionary" item that's going to "change Apple forever" that Steve has hinted at.

Are we suddenly supposed to drool over, "4,000 addresses in your pocket"?

Evolution or Revolution?
 

mangoman

macrumors 6502a
Nov 27, 2002
929
60
Second Floor
...or convoluted crap? The fantasy stuff doesn't wash, now does it? I'm with you guys who are speaking to the practical--updating the existing iPod makes sense. That's the fall I'm setting myself up for. It'll be a short fall if it doesn't happen. And if the friggin' iDominator gets released -- and it does everything but wipe my *ss, then great. We'll all have a drink or something. Light a couch on fire.

Swell.
 

TheInevitable

macrumors member
Dec 11, 2002
99
0
Arizona
iPod2 type devise is most likely if anything.

The big change is just a color screen that can play quicktime, jpg, etc. It will be compatable with iCal, iPhoto (and synch with the new Quicktime 6.5 app?). Maybe it comes with a Firewire>RCA cable? This could be done without much price change. Then as the technology increases, we get bigger hard drives.

I think something like this is realistic enough to actually happen. At the same time, I'd give my right nut to own one.
 
Originally posted by TheInevitable
iPod2 type devise is most likely if anything.

The big change is just a color screen that can play quicktime, jpg, etc. It will be compatable with iCal, iPhoto (and synch with the new Quicktime 6.5 app?). Maybe it comes with a Firewire>RCA cable? This could be done without much price change. Then as the technology increases, we get bigger hard drives.

I think something like this is realistic enough to actually happen. At the same time, I'd give my right nut to own one.

With high-quality mp3's and a good set of headphones, the iPod delivers a non-compromised listening experience. A 2.5" color lcd is an expensive, crappy excuse for watching a movie or viewing pictures. If you could magically set the device near a tv and play through the big picture, THAT would be cool. OR maybe there's a high-intensity projector that beams the images on a blank wall!!:D

10 to 1 the upgrade is something nobody wants and few can afford (like .Mac, but with hardware!).

- j
 

TheInevitable

macrumors member
Dec 11, 2002
99
0
Arizona
Thats what the firewire>RCA cable is for; getting your images to the TV. Little LCD screens can't be that expensive, I've seen digital cameras with half decent LCD screens for $200. Also, if they can make PDAs with huge color screens for $500 or less, they can make an iPod with a decent 2" LCD screen for reasonable price.

This new iPod would take the $499 price point, and the older iPods would drop in price respectively.
 

TheInevitable

macrumors member
Dec 11, 2002
99
0
Arizona
My cousin's sister-in-law's uncle once removed works for apple and got me this UNDENIABLE PROOF!!!!

I guess they plan to do some marketing with movie trailers. Apperantly, there is this Star Wars one, and there is a Matrix one, and an X-men and Hulk ones too.
 
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