New Hardware in April/March?

[Puppies]

Lets face it, Apple's hardware is massively overpriced. The PowerMac is the only line that's more or less in the same league performance-wise as current x86 hardware, but it costs at least double the price.

The iMac and PowerBook are both overpriced and underpowered. Considering the 970 is actually CHEAPER than a G4, and can run cooler (especially on the new process) there's no excuse not to switch to it across the line. I was shocked the PowerBook didn't switch last September and these claims of it drawing too much power are bogus. Even on a .13 process it drew a reasonable amount at full speed-underclocked it was comparable to a G4. Geez, some official Intel mobile chips draw 70 watts.

And the iMac comes with at BEST a non-upgradeable Geforce 5200? What the hey! In the Windows world you can get something easily twice as powerful (a Geforce 4) for $60-70. Consumers want to play games, and the iMac should cost about $300 if it wanted to compete price/performance against x86 hardware.

EDIT: (Okay, I was basing $300 on what you can get for $1000 with x86-technically the iMac would compare really nicely against cheap x86 hardware if it were priced <$800).

(Of course, if Apple is still using tech support based in the US, that's worth a premium right there-most x86 vendors are based out of India now).

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

jasonelise1983 whats with the posting of the same post twice? once is enough thankyou. Puppies you make some nice points, i was looking at some more Pcs and it amazing for under $1500 they will give you a 9800 pro, in our stale Macworld they will give you a stale fx5200 even in the dual 1.8 G5. $2500 simply sorry. Mac Hardware is way overpriced and we all know it. Its been this way for years. all i can say is vote with your wallet.

 

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by stingerman
I predict we will see hardware updated between March and December...

whoa. your way off. lets be reasonable here

 

[JasonElise1983]

i didn't mean to post it twice, i actually don't know how that happened. i just refreshed my browser and there it was again. But i do disagree with Apple Hardware being over priced. Have you looked at decent PC's in the market lately? No, you probably haven't. HP, Dell, Gateway are all ****. If you want a real PC, you get an alienware, falcon northwest, voodoo, or build it yourself. An alienware running intels top processor will easily cost as much as a PowerMac G5 and doesn't perform as well. Yes graphic cards, are a little more expensive on the mac side, but that is because you are actually buying an ATI and not some saphire ****. you pay for what you get. HP, Dell, Compaq, and Gateway are paper weights compared to a mac. I would buy a 700mhz eMac for $1000 before i bought a gateway with a 3ghz P4 for the same price. Its the way its built. I trust apple hardware, i don't trust gateway. Hell, i don't trust microsoft or intel. I do have a lot of respect for AMD, and i hope the Athlon64 kills intel and stomps them into the ground. I'm not a Mac head, i work cross platform. At home on my desk i have a P4 PC and a G4iMac sitting side by side. I use both of them, but the iMac just performs better. Its just a better machine. I see the benefits of PCs and i think they have a good market(cheap asses and gamers) I don't think apple needs that market, apple wants the consumers that are willing to pay for a quality machine. Maybe that is why they have such a low marketshare, but i like it. I'd drive a honda over a cadillac anyday. Hondas are just made better, and are worth the money.

 

[woolfgang]

Hey Puppies, this has been addressed many times before: You get what you pay for. I just left an office that was being run on a 12 year old mac server, I see 4 and 5 year old PC's on the street every day. Anyway, I don't think the G5 upgrade thingy is all that black and white. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve didn't have something up his sleeve and introduce G5's in imacs and Powerbooks within a short time of each other. I'm frustrated too, wanting a G5 Powerbook. I've never bought Rev. A, but would if I could get one. What about the push at the Apple store online. There definitely trying to sell those G5's.

 

[Puppies]

JasonElise1983:

But i do disagree with Apple Hardware being over priced. Have you looked at decent PC's in the market lately? No, you probably haven't. HP, Dell, Gateway are all ****. If you want a real PC, you get an alienware, falcon northwest, voodoo, or build it yourself. An alienware running intels top processor will easily cost as much as a PowerMac G5 and doesn't perform as well.

Falcon, Alienware, etc. are horribly overpriced too. There’s nothing wrong with Dell, and with Dell or building it yourself you’re getting easily double the bang for the buck versus Apple. (Probably more.)

Yes graphic cards, are a little more expensive on the mac side

A LITTLE more expensive? A Radeon 9800 Pro goes for $400 for the Mac, versus about $215 for Windows right now (or $350 to upgrade from a Geforce 5200 on a new Mac). I don’t think I’d describe that difference as “little”. Plus there’s very little to choose from compared with the gazillions of different varieties of Radeons and Geforces available for x86 (which brings with it really good pricing).

but that is because you are actually buying an ATI and not some saphire ****.

What’s wrong with Saphire? It’s possible the Radeon in the PowerMac is made by Saphire, as they make a lot of the ‘ATi’ hardware apparently. I haven’t used anything by Saphire yet, but I haven’t heard of anything negative against them.

you pay for what you get. HP, Dell, Compaq, and Gateway are paper weights compared to a mac. I would buy a 700mhz eMac for $1000 before i bought a gateway with a 3ghz P4 for the same price. Its the way its built. I trust apple hardware, i don't trust gateway. Hell, i don't trust microsoft or intel. I do have a lot of respect for AMD, and i hope the Athlon64 kills intel and stomps them into the ground. I'm not a Mac head, i work cross platform. At home on my desk i have a P4 PC and a G4iMac sitting side by side. I use both of them, but the iMac just performs better. Its just a better machine. I see the benefits of PCs and i think they have a good market(cheap asses and gamers) I don't think apple needs that market, apple wants the consumers that are willing to pay for a quality machine. Maybe that is why they have such a low marketshare, but i like it. I'd drive a honda over a cadillac anyday. Hondas are just made better, and are worth the money.

That whole ‘quality’ argument works to a point. Macs do tend to be well built and they certainly look nice. But the nice looking bit runs out of steam (most people aren’t going to pay two or three times more just for something that looks a little nicer) and Apple doesn’t give you the option of buying something more “normal” looking for more “normal” prices. A lot more people would be willing to get away from Microsoft if they could buy an Apple system for a reasonable price/performance level. And as for the quality-yeah, store bought Windows PCs are basically pieces of junk, but Dell and some other vendors aren’t, and I’d trust an x86 system with hand picked components for reliability and speed any day over a Mac.

There’s no way around it. Apple hardware costs too much for its performance. I’d have to spend $3000 to get an Apple system that performs similarly to a $1000 x86 system I threw together myself or got from Dell (and that’s WITH an educational discount). It’s really hard to justify, and I think there’s probably more of an untapped market for reasonably priced Apple hardware than ever, because of people who want to switch to OS X but can’t justify the cost.

 

[173080]

Originally posted by Puppies

Apple doesn’t give you the option of buying something more “normal” looking for more “normal” prices.

And Mercedes-Benz and BMW do?

 

[ionas]

hum - its not up to me

its up to apple.
if they dont release anything but 3ghz i will go for 3ghz directly.

i dont need to buy
i want to buy
if there is nothing to buy
i dont buy

if apple doesnt bring anything but 3ghz and brings 3ghz after 2004 i wont even consider to buy.

then i ll stick with some other ppc and MoL (mac on linux) and still have a PPC, Mac OS X and all the fun.

so its not up to me - its up to apple.

 

[woolfgang]

Thou doth protest too much. If you want PC, what are you doing in here. What's the problem? I wonder how many PC forums have Mac people in them complaining.

 

[phillymjs]

Argh! Give me new G5s NOW!

Consarnit, Apple! Announce the damned speed-bumped G5s already! I don't care if they won't be shipping for a few weeks because the OS isn't ready! I've got a ~$6K check coming next week from a junk fax lawsuit, and I want to blow it on a shiny new top-of-the-line Power Mac.

I swear, I can't win. When I'm broke, you can't announce nifty new machines fast enough, but now...

~Philly

 

[Puppies]

And Mercedes-Benz and BMW do?

That's really not a valid comparison. BMWs don't need special BMW gas or BMW roads.

Can't believe anyone would actually try to argue that Apple isn't overpriced...

Anyway, I'm still hoping for quick PowerBook updates.

 

[invaLPsion]

I've been waiting for powermac updates for two months and it's TIME for Apple to release them. Idon't care how fast they are. Whatever it is, I will buy it!

 

[reorx]

Originally posted by Puppies
That's really not a valid comparison. BMWs don't need special BMW gas or BMW roads.

Can't believe anyone would actually try to argue that Apple isn't overpriced...

Anyway, I'm still hoping for quick PowerBook updates.

Its a perfectly valid comparison. If you're comparing vehicle to vehicle, your observation about needing special gas is way off (unless you assume premium fuel is somehow "special").

Mac's don't require special "electricity" nor do they need special "internet connectivity".

What they give end-users is far more than can be measured in MHz and FPS.

Are you saying that the user experience of a Pontiac GTO is the same as a BMW 3 series given that they're roughly the same size and have similar 0-60 times?

If so, you're absolutely missing the point.

 

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by reorx
Its a perfectly valid comparison. If you're comparing vehicle to vehicle, your observation about needing special gas is way off (unless you assume premium fuel is somehow "special").

Mac's don't require special "electricity" nor do they need special "internet connectivity".

What they give end-users is far more than can be measured in MHz and FPS.

Are you saying that the user experience of a Pontiac GTO is the same as a BMW 3 series given that they're roughly the same size and have similar 0-60 times?

If so, you're absolutely missing the point.

I agree.

The real issue for me here is that Apple set out to build a machine for the masses, 20 odd years ago, and also suceeded with a pretty good mom and pop machine with the first iMac. But now they dont compete or even really attempt to seriously compete on performance at the low end of the computing market - and their sales reflect that.

 

[takao]

Originally posted by Huezo
And Mercedes-Benz and BMW do?

please no more car comparisations...

yes bmw/mercedes are offering normal looking cars for normal prices...in europe...and guess what ? they have more than 20% marketshare combined...and guess how many mustang,camaros,skylines i have seen _ever_ : zero, nada, null,...

there is _no_ market niche for them here they have to compete with m3s,s3s,golf gtis etc.at much lower price ...and because of that they don't sell them here... you can't sell american cars here they just use to much fuel... would you buy a car which uses 20 liters per 100 km and you have to pay more than 1 dollar per liter ?

if you use car manufactures..use porsche,aston martin etc. they are comparable to apple

PS: even driving schools are using BMW 3,or Audi A4 here

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
whereas imacs are considered their economic line. than the pm, and they certainly need a g5 more than imacs.

Economical line? Surely, you jest.

 

[reorx]

Originally posted by takao
if you use car manufactures..use porsche,aston martin etc. they are comparable to apple

Ah, a valid point if you live on the continent, but not here in the USA.

We get the expensive vehicles from all the world's manufacturers. You can't even get a Toyota Land Cruiser over here with a manual transmission or a diesel. They are only $60K plus vehicles here. Such a shame, as I'd love to have an all-manual(tranny tcase) turbodiesel FZJ100 here in the states.

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by JasonElise1983
G5 iMac...i don't think so. It would be so silly of Apple to even attempt a G5 iMac. Lets look at the facts. The PowerMac just got a G5 in June. The PowerBook doesn't even have one yet. And the iMac just got a 20" screen. Apple would never put a G5 in the current case, and since they just developed something new for it, i would say that it will be a G4 for a while. As i recall, IBM is also develping a 7??? processor which was called a G3 +altivec. I think apple will switch to this sometime soon, and call it a G4 or maybe even a G4-II. The PowerBook will get a G5 soon, 970fx looks too easy for it not too. This is how i think the line up should look.

PowerMac G5
2.0Ghz
Dual 2.2Ghz
Dual 2.4 Ghz

PowerBook G5
12" 1.6Ghz
15" 1.6 Ghz
15" 1.8 Ghz
17" 1.8Ghz

iMac
15" 1.2Ghz G4-II
17" 1.4Ghz G4-II
20" 1.6Ghz G4-II

eMac
1.2Ghz G4-II

iBook
12" 1Ghz G4-II
14" 1.2Ghz G4-II

That would be a reasonable, ass kicking line of computers. It would kill the world of PC's and start the trend of total mac domination.

G3 with Altivec is non-existant.

The 20" display was slapped onto an existing line, no development there.

1.6 GHz G4's. Pass the bong this way.

Apple needs a G5 in its consumer line to jump start sales. I am so desperate for a new Mac but don't want the beast that it the PM. That is a very prevalent thought on MR, although probably not representative of the buying public.

I'd sooner buy a Windows box after using Macs for over 15 years than buy a three year old G4 CPU running on a bus that my grandmother can run faster than.

 

[cheekyspanky]

I'm just wondering if the BMW 3-series is still considered luxury in the states? Here in the UK they're so common that the luxury aspect has disappeared for a lot of people.

And Mercedes and BMW do offer cheaper alternatives, the Mercedes A-Class and also the Smart (http://www.smart.com) which is a brand of Daimler-Chrysler. BMW are bringing out the 1-Series in a little while IIRC and they offer the MINI (http://www.mini.com) as well.

Maybe Apple should offer a cheaper branch as well to get the customers in who'd then upgrade to a proper Apple when they next upgrade?

edit - I've never seen driving school Audi's or BMWs, the MINI yes but none of the others! Although even the police here in Portsmouth drive BMW 3 Series and X5's!

 

[clr900]

Originally posted by takao
please no more car comparisations...

yes bmw/mercedes are offering normal looking cars for normal prices...in europe...and guess what ? they have more than 20% marketshare combined...and guess how many mustang,camaros,skylines i have seen _ever_ : zero, nada, null,...

there is _no_ market niche for them here they have to compete with m3s,s3s,golf gtis etc.at much lower price ...and because of that they don't sell them here... you can't sell american cars here they just use to much fuel... would you buy a car which uses 20 liters per 100 km and you have to pay more than 1 dollar per liter ?

if you use car manufactures..use porsche,aston martin etc. they are comparable to apple

PS: even driving schools are using BMW 3,or Audi A4 here

Wow I wish it was like that here in America...

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by Huezo
And Mercedes-Benz and BMW do?

Yes.

Mercedes C class starting at under $30,000.

BMW 325i at $28,000.

Both starting at prices unheard of for MB and BMW only 2 years ago.

 

[takao]

Off Topic:

Originally posted by reorx
We get the expensive vehicles from all the world's manufacturers. You can't even get a Toyota Land Cruiser over here with a manual transmission or a diesel. They are only $60K plus vehicles here. Such a shame, as I'd love to have an all-manual(tranny tcase) turbodiesel FZJ100 here in the states.

i always wondered why automatic transmissions are so popular in the US ? for me personnaly shifting is the most interresting aspect of driving a car ..i would miss it ..
can somebody please give me some numbers on this prices for gasoline/diesel in america ? i know they are very low but how low exactly ?
and how much is a gallon ?... (all those american things: yard,inch,fahrenheit etc. are very confusing )perhaps sombody knows a good site where you can calculate them to something different ?

back on topic
if there are any new hardware during april/march i doubt it would be something brand new like imac g5 or new formfactors
better speed/specs. perhaps but nothing ground breaking

 

[clr900]

I have been waiting for two months for new PMs so I really hope they release them in March, I really wouldn't want to wait another month. I think that PMs are competitively priced with other Windows based machines considering that they are of such high quality and are aesthetically pleasing. Hopefully after the revision, the dual 2ghz will drop in price and then will be in direct competition with other PCs in the consumer market that is looking for a high end machine for gaming or what not. I think that the iMac is amazing and really cool but is supposed to be an average consumer computer and therefore is highly overpriced. But what makes it so overpriced is the LCD screen. I think that Apple should create a tower iMac which has no screen and unlike the current iMac it would offer expandability and reasonable speeds that could compete with the crappy computers dell and other companies offer for so cheap. It would not be as big as the current PowerMac G5 and obviously would have to be really cool and good looking. This would allow the average consumer to have a tower like the crappy computers they already have and could hook it up to a monitor they already have and then they would be able to see the amazing quality and greatness of Apple but not have to feel like they are spending a fortune or buying something that can't be upgraded. It could have single G5 processors with varying speeds so that it would not compete with the PowerMac line, but it would not be so far behind like it is now. Apple could bundle it in a package with their 17in lcd screens which would obviously be much more expensive than just the iMac tower but you could buy just the iMac too. If Apple could come out with this and price it around 1000 dollars, I think that the average consumer would seriously consider it, without the display it is much cheaper and would allow consumers to use displays they already owned.

 

[ZildjianKX]

Re: Off Topic:

Originally posted by takao
i always wondered why automatic transmissions are so popular in the US ? for me personnaly shifting is the most interresting aspect of driving a car ..i would miss it ..
can somebody please give me some numbers on this prices for gasoline/diesel in america ? i know they are very low but how low exactly ?
and how much is a gallon ?... (all those american things: yard,inch,fahrenheit etc. are very confusing )perhaps sombody knows a good site where you can calculate them to something different ?

back on topic
if there are any new hardware during april/march i doubt it would be something brand new like imac g5 or new formfactors
better speed/specs. perhaps but nothing ground breaking

It depends on where you live. In California, which normally has the most expensive gas, its about $1.85/gallon, and diesel is probably a little lower than that.

 

[reorx]

I prefer a manual, too... I guess the majority of folks here are either too lazy or just not skilled enough to shift while on the phone...

Just a comparison (its gonna make you sick):

In San Antonio:

diesel = $1.58/gal
93 octane = $1.68/gal

Its 3.7854 liters / gallon...

On topic: I'm just hoping the new hardware pushes down the pricing on the G5 towers... I'd love to have a dual 2.0 GHz this spring at dual 1.8 prices...