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Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
9,130
4,036
You can listen to music on the iPad's speakers just fine, because they are RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. While I wouldn't say no to louder speakers, the placement of them is fine. I listen to music on mine while reading sometimes

I like to watch TV and movies on my iPad
Those things have been in Stereo in the UK for many years.
We dropped Mono on TV a LONG time ago.

Why when I am watching TV or a Movie on my iPad should there be no stereo sound?

No only is the sound not being directed to my ear, it's being shot out sideways not towards me, unlike any normal device. It's also only one one side of the device.

You may excuse this all you want, but it's poor.
It would be a poor design on something costing $50

I'd almost challenge anyone, who never saw such a device, and say, ok, it's going to be used for Music, TV and Movies so people can enjoy them.
And see just how many designers came back with 2 speakers directing the sound sideways, right next to each other on only one side of the device.

I suspect many, given no prior knowledge and a blank sheet of paper would come up with a more logical type of design for the sound output.

You know. The type of design that's been in place since probably Stereo was invented.

It would not be so bad if there was some technical reason why it can't be done, and then of course it would be understandable. No one can work a miracle.

But when it's just designed to be worse than it otherwise could be. Deliberately, for no real cost, performance or other reason, it's very sad.

----------

To make the perfect iPad, they need to add:

-a Touch ID sensor

-a laminated display: no air gap (like iPhone 5S and iMac)

-stereo speakers: one on the bottom and one on the top

-8MP Camera + Truetone Flash (Flash handy for flashlight, heart rate measuring etc)

-A8 Chip + 2GB Ram

-12 hours battery life: maybe possible with A8, they're close

-32GB standard


Software bezels if they every do it, would be interesting.
Even actually using the bezel surface for something other than waster space would be interesting.
 

bushido

Suspended
Mar 26, 2008
8,070
2,755
Germany
I don't use a macbook ;) and I'm pretty sure most people don't use their iPads on those situations either.

that person was talking about the iPhone though cuz the iPad has had the cut out for like forever for the wifi antenna

Tacky, yes. Waste energy: No. All MacBooks use the same backlight as the screen itself - it's just a hole from the other side!

i dont think that would work like that on an iPad / iPhone ;) theres all the internals and the battery in the way for having the display simply "glowing" through on the back
 

brdeveloper

macrumors 68030
Apr 21, 2010
2,629
313
Brasil
Everyone has their own preferences. I for one enjoy carrying the entertainment devices for my entire family (4 ipads) in a small bag when we are travelling on holidays and such. And, for my kids, it has replaced the dvd player in the car, and pretty much all other media and game consumation devices into one small device.

Yep... I can see utility for an iPad when you have children.

In my case (no children yet), I can't see enough utility to the additional space it occupies at home. I'm trying avoiding electronic redundancy these days. Too much stuff to do basically the same thing.
 

Jvanleuvan

macrumors regular
Dec 21, 2012
126
37
Couple of things:
1) no-one is getting any good "stereo" sound from such a small speaker separation as allowed on any smartphone/tablet. For stereo to work, and what I mean is ACTUALLY hearing different sounds in each ear, requires more speaker separation(or ear isolation) that the size of the device can possibly allow. So the BEST a device of this size could EVER offer would hardly be better than mono anyway.

2) Yes, I agree, the speaker placement on the Ipad (and Iphone) is not at all optimal, AND yes, I AGREE that there are devices that have better speakers built in; but I think this is much-ado-about-nothing, as even the BEST speaker layout on such a small device is incredibly poor compared to a decent set of headphones.


-Just a note, you do hear "both" channels on the Ipad, you are not "missing" any sound, you just get no channel separation, but at best you could only get like 9.5"(inches!) of separation, which is hardly further apart that your ears! let alone far enough apart to actually hear any stereo.
 

iChrist

macrumors 65816
Sep 7, 2011
1,479
432
3 countries for tax benefit
According to who? I happily ditched my 3rd gen iPad for the iPad Air. The weight reduction alone was worth it.

Yes, that's skipping a couple generations. Recent sales numbers indicate that most people are not feeling the need to upgrade.

Apple hoped that the upgrade cycle would mirror iPhones, but it is closer to the computer upgrade cycle.

:apple:
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
9,130
4,036
Couple of things:
1) no-one is getting any good "stereo" sound from such a small speaker separation as allowed on any smartphone/tablet. For stereo to work, and what I mean is ACTUALLY hearing different sounds in each ear, requires more speaker separation(or ear isolation) that the size of the device can possibly allow. So the BEST a device of this size could EVER offer would hardly be better than mono anyway.

Actually I believe you are wrong with this point.

Just stop and think for a moment, how far is your TV away from you, with I'd assume it's stereo speakers?

Now think of the angle going from your ears to the TV.

Pick up an iPad to watch a TV show or Movie. Probably 18" away from your face. You will get very good stereo separation from speakers approx 9.5" apart, even more separation as they are firing sideways that would make the sound stage even more.

And yes, I know the iPad puts stereo sound out of it's two speakers right next to each other on one end of the device. That's what's so crazy
 

vpro

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2012
1,195
65
Bank on less quality :)

I don't care for recessed controls; harder to press. But I wonder if the redesigned speakers will have better quality.

Apple's speakers and their quality of sound through all their devices have only gone down hill since 2011. Watch the documentary called Distortion of Sound online.

You want thinner and lighter, that means you compromise everything to do with quality of sound, simple, it is the MacDonald of music quality..


I love you all.
 

Jvanleuvan

macrumors regular
Dec 21, 2012
126
37
Actually I believe you are wrong with this point.

Just stop and think for a moment, how far is your TV away from you, with I'd assume it's stereo speakers?

Now think of the angle going from your ears to the TV.

Pick up an iPad to watch a TV show or Movie. Probably 18" away from your face. You will get very good stereo separation from speakers approx 9.5" apart, even more separation as they are firing sideways that would make the sound stage even more.

And yes, I know the iPad puts stereo sound out of it's two speakers right next to each other on one end of the device. That's what's so crazy

Yes, TV's have stereo speakers, but realistically, you cannot hear anything like true stereo from your TV, meaning your left and right ears hear different sounds. I have never ever heard sound from my TV that made me "turn" my head to see what made the sound (but with my surround sound system this happens)

to really get this effect you need separate speakers usually attached to an amp and these speakers need to be far enough apart to create a difference in sound for each of your ears

now, I know that some of these systems use "directed" sound, i.e. create a more direct sound stream horizontally out to try and bounce off the walls, but this is moot on an ipad sized device.
 

bpeeps

Suspended
May 6, 2011
3,678
4,629
I still don't know why I need a tablet AND a laptop AND a smartphone. My Macs and my wife's Windows laptop suit perfectly our digital entertainment needs along our smartphones.

And you probably never will sense you lack the common sense to understand why a company creates a variety of hardware for different people to buy/use.
 

Burger Thing

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2009
1,066
1,014
Around the World
Couple of things:
1) no-one is getting any good "stereo" sound from such a small speaker separation as allowed on any smartphone/tablet. For stereo to work, and what I mean is ACTUALLY hearing different sounds in each ear, requires more speaker separation(or ear isolation) that the size of the device can possibly allow. So the BEST a device of this size could EVER offer would hardly be better than mono anyway.

2) Yes, I agree, the speaker placement on the Ipad (and Iphone) is not at all optimal, AND yes, I AGREE that there are devices that have better speakers built in; but I think this is much-ado-about-nothing, as even the BEST speaker layout on such a small device is incredibly poor compared to a decent set of headphones.


-Just a note, you do hear "both" channels on the Ipad, you are not "missing" any sound, you just get no channel separation, but at best you could only get like 9.5"(inches!) of separation, which is hardly further apart that your ears! let alone far enough apart to actually hear any stereo.

Complete and utter nonsense.

How far away is your ipad if you watch a movie? Across the room? :rolleyes:
No, most likely it would sit just a few centimeters away and the sound would be reflected outward to the side of the device and yes, you would be able to distinguish the Left/Right channel.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
5,601
5,953
I think they could make a good one, give the body mac internals and give the screen iPad internals.

Add one piece of Mac hardware, you have to add others, soon you end up with a Mac again. Apple is running the opposite direction with the iPad. They won't stop until it floats.


Analogies are worthless in arguments, most of the time, because it often derails the discussion and gets people talking about the validity of the analogy.

Analogies are worthless?? That's like saying ... well, you know. Analogies, if used correctly, are an invaluable communication tool. Maybe you're talking about bad analogies. In that case, bad things are always worthless.


Yep... I can see utility for an iPad when you have children.

In my case (no children yet), I can't see enough utility to the additional space it occupies at home. I'm trying avoiding electronic redundancy these days. Too much stuff to do basically the same thing.

That's cool, I respect that. In my opinion, a lot of activities benefit from the combined screen size and portability of tablets, to varying degrees, some niche, some more mainstream, and few activities even require them. One of the more mainstream activities that I believe leans toward requiring tablets, including for me personally, is e-reading. I think laptops and smartphones can technically function as e-readers in certain scenarios, but they do anywhere from a horrible job to a barely passable job. But I believe if you do something a lot and it's something that matters to you, you should have a device that does it very well. For e-reading, I don't think it's a question that that device is a tablet. E-readers of course are also good and relatively cheaper, but I figure if I'm going to get another device, it might as well do as many things as possible (same reason one might get a smartphone and not a dumb phone). If you can't find that activity that's important to you, that a tablet does much better than anything else you have, then as you suspect, a tablet would probably be a frivolous addition to your life.


Yes, TV's have stereo speakers, but realistically, you cannot hear anything like true stereo from your TV, meaning your left and right ears hear different sounds. I have never ever heard sound from my TV that made me "turn" my head to see what made the sound (but with my surround sound system this happens)

to really get this effect you need separate speakers usually attached to an amp and these speakers need to be far enough apart to create a difference in sound for each of your ears

now, I know that some of these systems use "directed" sound, i.e. create a more direct sound stream horizontally out to try and bounce off the walls, but this is moot on an ipad sized device.

It makes sense, the closer you pull the tablet to your face, the closer each speaker will get to your ear, making it more and more like stereo headphones. Just depends how close you hold it to your face, I guess. But this is all moot for the iPad with its ridiculous stereo speakers both on the bottom(??!)...
Which leads to what I believe is a bigger issue at hand: sound DIRECTION. I want to be the person in the room who hears my tablet the loudest. Right now with almost all tablets having side or back speakers, everyone else in the room BUT me gets that privilege, whether they want it or not. We're like the annoying 80s hip hop guy who held his boombox the wrong way. Apple, give us front-facing speakers! On both tablets and phones. Just slap the speakers on the front, pretty it up if you want, or make the sound come through the screen, I don't care, just get 'er done. No more of this cupping my hand around the speaker to try to direct the sound toward me business.
 

Jvanleuvan

macrumors regular
Dec 21, 2012
126
37
Complete and utter nonsense.

How far away is your ipad if you watch a movie? Across the room? :rolleyes:
No, most likely it would sit just a few centimeters away and the sound would be reflected outward to the side of the device and yes, you would be able to distinguish the Left/Right channel.

Generally, if you look up proper speaker positioning for proper stereo sound the speakers need to be a certain distance apart depending on the distance in front of the listener they are, such that the listener is at the tip of an imaginary equilateral triangle.

The issue with anything that's ipad sized is that these speakers are only, at most, 9.5" apart, your ears are about 8"-8.25" apart.

So, approximately, at a normal ipad viewing distance, 18". Including the width of the human head, the speakers would need to be about 23" apart for good stereo. At 9.5" apart you CAN hear SOME stereo but is far from optimal.

----------

It makes sense, the closer you pull the tablet to your face, the closer each speaker will get to your ear, making it more and more like stereo headphones. Just depends how close you hold it to your face, I guess. But this is all moot for the iPad with its ridiculous stereo speakers both on the bottom(??!)...
Which leads to what I believe is a bigger issue at hand: sound DIRECTION. I want to be the person in the room who hears my tablet the loudest. Right now with almost all tablets having side or back speakers, everyone else in the room BUT me gets that privilege, whether they want it or not. We're like the annoying 80s hip hop guy who held his boombox the wrong way. Apple, give us front-facing speakers! On both tablets and phones. Just slap the speakers on the front, pretty it up if you want, or make the sound come through the screen, I don't care, just get 'er done. No more of this cupping my hand around the speaker to try to direct the sound toward me business.


I do think a forward facing speaker would GREATLY improve the sound, and would yield a more significant improvement than any stereo speakers.
 

zipa

macrumors 65816
Feb 19, 2010
1,442
1
Love the swirl on the back. There is some upping to be shut and money to be taken here, methinks.
 

fanboy7

macrumors newbie
Oct 24, 2013
20
8
Nope

The only people who buy iPads now are first timers (very few) and people who have their iPad break (very few). Otherwise, Apple provides zero reason to upgrade.



:apple:

The iPad Air is 10x as nice as the ipad 4. I have both, and can tell you after using them for everything I do for a year, and still using both. The ipad air gave a huge reason to upgrade. I can't see a huge reason to upgrade from the air to air 2 though, but if you haven't felt the air, and held it for hours you don't know how incredible the difference is.
 

jaochoui

macrumors newbie
Dec 24, 2013
16
0
I suspect many, given no prior knowledge and a blank sheet of paper would come up with a more logical type of design for the sound output.

You know. The type of design that's been in place since probably Stereo was invented.

But ask the same people to then draw where the other components should go, and it might not be as simple as drawing on a piece of paper.

I believe the designers are smart people, so it probably did not escape the designers that the placement of the speakers might not be optimal. But their idea or design might have had other priorities.

Or they might have worked under constraints, like physical limitations/constraints such as the amount of space, and perhaps components might even already have a fixed size/shape, especially if size and shape is limited by technological abilities.

There might even be predetermined “priority positions” for some components to go somewhere, for all we know.

I also wish sometimes that the speakers could be two-sided too, instead of just being at the bottom/one-sided, so I have no disagreement on that.

It's not impossible, since other tablets have done the same. But it depends, again, on the components being used. It seems Apple is very particular about making even the internals of their products nicely arranged, which might or might not be for reasons of aesthetics.

Ok, these are probably just excuses. After all, the designers are paid to think of solutions. Perhaps if they had planned for two-sided speakers then this might not be a problem at all. But maybe that wasn't their plan in the first place, who knows?

But when it's just designed to be worse than it otherwise could be. Deliberately, for no real cost, performance or other reason, it's very sad.

To be fair, I don't think the designer would deliberately design it to be worse, and would have wished to do better if they had fewer limitations. We have nothing but our own conjectures on this matter.

======

Anyway, about speaker positions, I agree front-facing speakers (or at least, not-so-bottom-facing ones) will be nice.

However — and this might sound silly — it probably depends on the “default orientation” of the tablet. On some tablets, landscape is the “default”, and for others it is portrait. Maybe in the end there's no such thing as an actual default, but at least for the iPad I have a feeling the portrait orientation is the “default”.

Still, in portrait mode left-right (the longer side) would have worked better than the bottom speakers, I guess.

In an ideal world, we should have a device that can do well on any orientation. Maybe we will have a crazy top-bottom-left-right configuration that switches depending on the orientation... or they'll just let all four blast away... which will lead us back to the component placement again. But then again, one can just hope. Haha...
 

iMacmatician

macrumors 601
Jul 20, 2008
4,249
55
Anyway, about speaker positions, I agree front-facing speakers (or at least, not-so-bottom-facing ones) will be nice.

However — and this might sound silly — it probably depends on the “default orientation” of the tablet. On some tablets, landscape is the “default”, and for others it is portrait. Maybe in the end there's no such thing as an actual default, but at least for the iPad I have a feeling the portrait orientation is the “default”.

Still, in portrait mode left-right (the longer side) would have worked better than the bottom speakers, I guess.

In an ideal world, we should have a device that can do well on any orientation. Maybe we will have a crazy top-bottom-left-right configuration that switches depending on the orientation... or they'll just let all four blast away... which will lead us back to the component placement again. But then again, one can just hope. Haha...
What do you think of the corner speakers in this iPad mockup?
 

freediverdude

macrumors 6502a
Dec 26, 2006
573
0
The current models have the cutout. And yes, the seam is astonishingly precise.

You're right, after examining my iPad Air more closely, it does appear that the Apple logo could be inserted in there instead of stamped and polished. I see where there could be seams there. Wow. Well maybe it's easier for them to insert exactly what they want, instead of stamping it or trying to polish those very fine areas without affecting the rest of the back.
 
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