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blesscheese

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
698
178
Central CA
Thanks! Check out Digital Storm for comparison of any build you plan on executing. I'm glad I did the build because it removed some of the mystery and then there is the Hackintosh. :)

Interesting! I went to the Digital Storm site, and those look darn good. Have you run any benchmarks? I'm wondering how to translate their PC Mark benchmarks into Geekbench scores...
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Interesting! I went to the Digital Storm site, and those look darn good. Have you run any benchmarks? I'm wondering how to translate their PC Mark benchmarks into Geekbench scores...

The one best thing to do is look at the benches of the motherboard, GPU, and CPU separately. This'll give you a rough idea of the overall performance of the machine. With all the parts together, it'll run just as well as you expect it to based off the scores you find for the components above.

Also, props to Huntn for the site. After looking at it, I'm kinda tempted to pick up an entry level Bolt for myself.
 

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan
Thanks! Check out Digital Storm for comparison of any build you plan on executing. I'm glad I did the build because it removed some of the mystery and then there is the Hackintosh. :)

DS does have some nice machines. It's so tempting to buy something premade, but I think I will enjoy building my own for the first time and will save a few bucks in the process.

I personally have no real desire to Hackintosh. I love Windows 7 and I'm sure 8 is just fine, and 8.1 sounds like the best of both worlds. I'll still keep my laptop around (too old/junky to sell anyway - Late 2006, battery swollen/removed).
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
DS does have some nice machines. It's so tempting to buy something premade, but I think I will enjoy building my own for the first time and will save a few bucks in the process.

I personally have no real desire to Hackintosh. I love Windows 7 and I'm sure 8 is just fine, and 8.1 sounds like the best of both worlds. I'll still keep my laptop around (too old/junky to sell anyway - Late 2006, battery swollen/removed).

Interesting... I only can tolerate Windows for gaming just because it's the best gaming choice. Otherwise I don't like it. For everything else, it's MacOS.

I'm obligated to say this for our true blue Mac friends. :p It is completely usual for something on Windows to be screwed up. Right now I have a fresh copy of Windows 7 and am having issues with Windows backup services not working, an issue with Shadow Copy Service and to clone my Windows partition, I ended up upgrading my old copy of True Image. Windows 7 on my MacBookPro required a clean install after spending an hour on the phone with Microsoft technical support trying to figure out why Windows Update was no longer working.

Going back all the way to Windows 95, Windows has been a mess producing scores of issues more than I've ever had with MacOS. I'm not a Windows novice either. I use Tuneup Utilities to keep Windows going along with anti-virus, and anti-malware programs. For every computer non-gaming based task, I'll choose Mac over Windows any day. :D

Now that I have a dedicated PC gaming machine, I also want to see how much of a pain in the butt, running MacOS on it will be and I have to rethink my Mac purchasing schedule. My MBP is a 2011 era machine, listed in my signature. Before this PC, it adequately met my gaming needs. Usually I sell them just before the 3 year, expiration of Apple Care, so I can sell it as hardware with a warranty and buy a new one. My last MBP purchased for about $2000 sold for $900, not a bad return to subsidize the next Mac. (I doubt that can be replicated on PC hardware.) But now that I have a gaming PC, the pressure is off me on the Mac side to keep up, so I might keep this machine for another couple of years, and since I am retired and no longer traveling like I used to, I'll probably replace it with an iMac.
 
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Renzatic

Suspended
Interesting... I only can tolerate Windows for gaming just because it's the best gaming choice. Otherwise I don't like it. For everything else, it's MacOS.

It's weird. I've never had too many problems out of Windows over the years. Sometimes I'll have an occasional hitch pop up, but I guess my years spent using it has helped me learn how to massage and coerce it into shape.

Though with SteamOS coming around the corner, and all my favorite programs save one or two showing up on it, I've recently switched to Linux. With all the deals Valve has been making with all the AAA developers to get support over the last couple of years, it's almost guaranteed to see at least a healthy boost of games here soon.

Course even if Valve manages to land every single AAA game from this point on, it won't ever be able to compete with Windows' massive back catalog. Like I've only got 43 of my 131 Steam games available to me right now while I'm here in Elementary. But it is slowly shaping up to be a solid alternative if you're looking for the latest and greatest, and don't feel like dealing with Windows for one reason or another.
 

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan
Interesting... I only can tolerate Windows for gaming just because it's the best gaming choice. Otherwise I don't like it. For everything else, it's MacOS.

I guess to each their own. :)

I use XP SP3 via Bootcamp for the few games I can run (Anarchy Online rarely, Portal, few other Steam games). I administered our Windows 7 computers/Win2008 server at work for a while and had no real issues. I've actually been having issues with my Mac for a while now - videos (especially Youtube) are too much and the computer will often freeze/stutter and audio gets distorted or "skips." XP still works fine.

I even had an old Windows ME laptop that I don't remember having any problems with, but at that time I think I solely used it for AOL, Diablo, and AO. Eventually sold it for a HP running Win XP. Run that sucker into the ground through 5 years of gaming and burned the screen out. That's when I stumbled across my current MacBook.

Honestly the biggest appeal to me from OS X is having things be so easy to download and not worry about files. I don't really have any worries in XP either, but worst case scenario I have avast installed just in case.
 
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G51989

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2012
2,530
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
The exception to the "PCs are better for gaming" rule, is if you are traveling and want to enjoy the MacOS on the road while doing some gaming. I consider the MacBookPro as the best option to achieve this. Via Bootcamp, my recent play list is or has been World of Tanks, DODA2, FFXIV, GW2, Bioshock Infinity, SWTOR and they all play in the range of 25-75 fps, a very viable avenue to mobile gaming.

I never got the whole " Enjoy the OS " thing personally, I see little difference between a mac or windows system, they are both just tools.

But if you want serious gaming on the road

http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-...11~W7UL61E;6905~FNCWQ02LHCC;3~32GB4D;8~512753

Do you need two GPUs in a laptop?

Of course you do! I have the last generation of the 18, it pretty much eats everything.

Its KINDA heavy tho
 

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
I never got the whole " Enjoy the OS " thing personally, I see little difference between a mac or windows system, they are both just tools.

But if you want serious gaming on the road

http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-...11~W7UL61E;6905~FNCWQ02LHCC;3~32GB4D;8~512753

Do you need two GPUs in a laptop?

Of course you do! I have the last generation of the 18, it pretty much eats everything.

Its KINDA heavy tho

Just like a Volkswagen and a Porsche are just cars? :p Yes the analogy would be that Windows is faster for games, but it tends to run off the road more frequently. ;)
You can get a MacBookPro in the same price ball park as the least expensive of those laptops and for myself, I want one computer that can handle both which would be a MBP.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Just like a Volkswagen and a Porsche are just cars? :p Yes the analogy would be that Windows is faster for games, but it tends to run off the road more frequently. ;)

It sounds to me like you never learned the fine art of beating Windows into shape. See, Windows is pretty good, but it has one huge problem: it doesn't do a good job of cleaning up after itself. It loves to cache everything it can, and leave little junk files lying around after you delete something. After awhile, it starts building up and making things weird. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but you still have to set aside a little extra time to dab at its mouth and wipe the crusties out of the corner of its eyes.

Like I can go months upon months upon months upon years without a single crash or weird bugging issue. I use two programs to make sure it all behaves: CCleaner, and Revo Uninstaller. CCleaner is obvious, but Revo will record every change a program makes to your machine when you install it, and reverse those changes when you decide it's time to get rid of it. Yeah, this is something Windows should do in the first place. Either that, or developers should take the time out to make sure it's done in its place rather than being all lackadaisical about it. But they don't, so you have to rely on something like Revo to get it done in their place.

Also, it's a very good idea to either use another harddrive or set aside a partition for a fixed sized swap file. You'll get tons of varying opinions on the importance of this, but my experiences are that going with a flexible sized swap tends to cause some rare things to act strangely, whereas fixed gives me practically no problems whatsoever.

Windows is more than stable, but it does require a little more proactive involvement in comparison to OSX or Linux. Usually to the tune of a quick sweep once a month.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
It sounds to me like you never learned the fine art of beating Windows into shape. See, Windows is pretty good, but it has one huge problem: it doesn't do a good job of cleaning up after itself. It loves to cache everything it can, and leave little junk files lying around after you delete something. After awhile, it starts building up and making things weird. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but you still have to set aside a little extra time to dab at its mouth and wipe the crusties out of the corner of its eyes.

Like I can go months upon months upon months upon years without a single crash or weird bugging issue. I use two programs to make sure it all behaves: CCleaner, and Revo Uninstaller. CCleaner is obvious, but Revo will record every change a program makes to your machine when you install it, and reverse those changes when you decide it's time to get rid of it. Yeah, this is something Windows should do in the first place. Either that, or developers should take the time out to make sure it's done in its place rather than being all lackadaisical about it. But they don't, so you have to rely on something like Revo to get it done in their place.

Also, it's a very good idea to either use another harddrive or set aside a partition for a fixed sized swap file. You'll get tons of varying opinions on the importance of this, but my experiences are that going with a flexible sized swap tends to cause some rare things to act strangely, whereas fixed gives me practically no problems whatsoever.

Windows is more than stable, but it does require a little more proactive involvement in comparison to OSX or Linux. Usually to the tune of a quick sweep once a month.

I believe I have a good handle on Windows and an accurate perception, but thanks for your input! I don't claim to be a Windows expert. :) I have used Revo uninstaller, but one utility I swear by is TuneUp Utilities, which handles most Windows issues. I should probably put Revo on this new box.

Maybe I gave a wrong impression. It's not like I'm pulling my hair out daily with Windows. But I can tell you every copy of Windows I have installed eventually requires a clean install or some issue which is hard to run down. I can't say they never happen to someone on MacOSX, but my experience since MacOSX came out is that "it just works". :D

One day Windows 7 on my MBP decided that it would no longer update with Windows updates. I had done nothing unusual, no new installs. I spent several hours troubleshooting it. You gotta love those cryptic error messages (error: 803a211you're****ed221), not! :p An hour on the phone with Microsoft and the problem was not resolved. I ended up clean installing it.

On this new install, I'm having an issue with Windows Backup and Shadow Copy Services not working. This is from a default initial install on new hardware. This would allow Windows to create an image of the C drive and create backup points. I finally threw in the towel and updated True Image and made a C drive image with it.
 

monkeybagel

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2011
1,141
61
United States
no reason to NOT go Hackintosh...

One reason not to is because it is illegal. You are breaking the EULA for OS X.

Another reason is because it is not supported, it could break at any Software Update release at any time, and all of your investment in OS X software would be gone.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
One reason not to is because it is illegal. You are breaking the EULA for OS X.

Another reason is because it is not supported, it could break at any Software Update release at any time, and all of your investment in OS X software would be gone.

Your first point is entirely moot to me. So long as you're doing it for your own personal use, and not wholesaling Hackintosh kits on the internet, there's really no crime. Apple certainly isn't being hurt by the relative few people willing to put up with all the issues to put OSX on a non-Mac PC.

But your second point is dead on, and is the major reason why I'd never go with a Hackintosh myself. It's a nice experiment, but if you're planning on using your computer for something besides being a neat experiment, there's just too much risk involved.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
Your first point is entirely moot to me. So long as you're doing it for your own personal use, and not wholesaling Hackintosh kits on the internet, there's really no crime. Apple certainly isn't being hurt by the relative few people willing to put up with all the issues to put OSX on a non-Mac PC.

But your second point is dead on, and is the major reason why I'd never go with a Hackintosh myself. It's a nice experiment, but if you're planning on using your computer for something besides being a neat experiment, there's just too much risk involved.

I view this as a valid point. Regardless if I put the MacOS on my new PC or not, I'll always have a real Mac on hand. What the new PC does change is that I no longer feel the same pressure to spend the extra on a "gaming" capable Mac which I view as the MBP or the top end iMac.
 

CJM

macrumors 68000
May 7, 2005
1,541
1,062
U.K.
One reason not to is because it is illegal. You are breaking the EULA for OS X.

Another reason is because it is not supported, it could break at any Software Update release at any time, and all of your investment in OS X software would be gone.

Ohhh no! Not the EULA!
 

garnerx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2012
623
382
How are you getting on with putting OS X on it?

I read your guide. Have you tried overclocking it yet? With that cooler, you might as well.

We have pretty much the same board, so if you haven't done it yet, the quick and easy way is:
Access the BIOS.
> M.I.T. > Advanced Frequency Settings > CPU Clock Ratio
Change this number, e.g. to 40 (for a 4 GHz machine) or 44 (for 4.4 GHz)
Done!

That one simple step got me better than 10% improvement in Photoshop benchmarks.

Also, check that your RAM is actually working at the correct speed. I found mine was clocked at 1333 MHz despite using 1600 MHz RAM. The setting for that is in the same menu (System memory multiplier).
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
How are you getting on with putting OS X on it?

I read your guide. Have you tried overclocking it yet? With that cooler, you might as well.

We have pretty much the same board, so if you haven't done it yet, the quick and easy way is:
Access the BIOS.
> M.I.T. > Advanced Frequency Settings > CPU Clock Ratio
Change this number, e.g. to 40 (for a 4 GHz machine) or 44 (for 4.4 GHz)
Done!

That one simple step got me better than 10% improvement in Photoshop benchmarks.

Also, check that your RAM is actually working at the correct speed. I found mine was clocked at 1333 MHz despite using 1600 MHz RAM. The setting for that is in the same menu (System memory multiplier).

Not there yet. But I plan on jumping in to it (MacOsX on PC) soon. As far as over clocking, I'll resist for now as I am happy with performance, but I would like to know how you tell what speed your memory is running at as compared to what it is supposed to run at? Thanks!
 

garnerx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2012
623
382
Not there yet. But I plan on jumping in to it (MacOsX on PC) soon. As far as over clocking, I'll resist for now as I am happy with performance, but I would like to know how you tell what speed your memory is running at as compared to what it is supposed to run at? Thanks!

The K series processor is made for overclocking, it won't be damaged.

For the memory speed, check the memory frequency in the BIOS. I assumed it would automatically select the correct speed, but I noticed the About This Mac dialog said it was 1333 MHz, so I checked the BIOS and for some reason that's what it had defaulted to. I think it's a multiplier number, so if it says 1.33 in there, just change it to 1.6.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
The K series processor is made for overclocking, it won't be damaged.

For the memory speed, check the memory frequency in the BIOS. I assumed it would automatically select the correct speed, but I noticed the About This Mac dialog said it was 1333 MHz, so I checked the BIOS and for some reason that's what it had defaulted to. I think it's a multiplier number, so if it says 1.33 in there, just change it to 1.6.

Thanks! I'll check it out! :)

----------



Hackintosh

Since I've gone on record as someone seriously considering placing the MacOS on the PC I just built, for those currently running Hackintoshes, how do you think the latest changes in the Mac hardware lineup will effect the prospect of Hackintosh from a driver standpoint? I assume there could be an issue regarding drivers for Video Cards running on the MacOS or no?

Thanks!
 

garnerx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2012
623
382
Thanks! I'll check it out! :)

----------



Hackintosh

Since I've gone on record as someone seriously considering placing the MacOS on the PC I just built, for those currently running Hackintoshes, how do you think the latest changes in the Mac hardware lineup will effect the prospect of Hackintosh from a driver standpoint? I assume there could be an issue regarding drivers for Video Cards running on the MacOS or no?

Why so? Everything apart from the Mini and Pro still comes with an Nvidia GPU option, and has done for several years, so there's always likely to be support for them. Unless they suddenly decide to make all current Macs obsolete...

Recent OS X updates have added support for other GPUs, so you can use an AMD card with a Hackintosh almost as easily as using an Nvidia one. If anything, it's becoming more compatible.

Just do it - I want to know how you get on. If you've got a spare HD, it takes half an hour to make the USB boot drive, 40-50 minutes waiting for it to install, and an hour or two to set it up how you like it.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
Why so? Everything apart from the Mini and Pro still comes with an Nvidia GPU option, and has done for several years, so there's always likely to be support for them. Unless they suddenly decide to make all current Macs obsolete...

Recent OS X updates have added support for other GPUs, so you can use an AMD card with a Hackintosh almost as easily as using an Nvidia one. If anything, it's becoming more compatible.

Just do it - I want to know how you get on. If you've got a spare HD, it takes half an hour to make the USB boot drive, 40-50 minutes waiting for it to install, and an hour or two to set it up how you like it.

Thanks for the info! I'm prepping for the next step and have a hard drive dock on order. I'm going to install MacOS and Chimera? on a hardrive using my Mac. :)
 

garnerx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2012
623
382
Thanks for the info! I'm prepping for the next step and have a hard drive dock on order. I'm going to install MacOS and Chimera? on a hardrive using my Mac. :)

Isn't a USB stick cheaper? Also you might also need to recover from USB if you run into any problems at a later date, which is an option you won't have if you write the HD directly from your Mac.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,617
26,739
The Misty Mountains
Isn't a USB stick cheaper? Also you might also need to recover from USB if you run into any problems at a later date, which is an option you won't have if you write the HD directly from your Mac.

I am using a USB stick for MacOS. I'm going to use the dock to power up the hard drive and make the software install on it while it is attached to my Mac before putting it in the PC. Could you clarify?
 
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