Exactly the same thing is happening on my Air M1. It is visible mostly when I am running on battery and when scrolling in Safari. Some colour combinations seems to make the display flicker more. I understand the Air is an entry level Apple laptop, but the displays Apple puts on the Airs is just garbage.
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Now that we have no PWM on MBA M2 what to do with FRC/Dithering?
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I know and I've seen that, it was also mentioned in that link. But this is just an entry level laptop. That is likely something so few people would even notice or know how to look for it, most seem to be extremely happy with it.
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So I just checked my own m2 air and it suffer from the same issue...
I've compared it with my previous PC. -- A cheap noname laptop from 2014.-- And the display has no quirky wavy variation of light.
No wonder why I felt the m2 air was so much more aggressive on the eyes when doing graphic work...
Is there hope this could be fixed software side?
Perhaps ill investigate and run asahi Linux to see if CPU rendering fix this.
I've compared it with my previous PC. -- A cheap noname laptop from 2014.-- And the display has no quirky wavy variation of light.
No wonder why I felt the m2 air was so much more aggressive on the eyes when doing graphic work...
Is there hope this could be fixed software side?
Perhaps ill investigate and run asahi Linux to see if CPU rendering fix this.
I would like to know this as well, as I am really interested in the Air 5th generation (M1). It has no PWM according to Notebookcheck, but I cannot find whether it has temporal dithering.
The 12.9" M1 Pro has no temporal dithering, and the 10th generation iPad has no temporal dithering according to Notebookcheck, but those are the only two that I have found that were tested by Notebookcheck.
And they confirmed no PWM as well!View attachment 2044777
Notebookcheck has confirmed the air m2 is free of temporal dithering in their review of the maxed out m2 air
Apple MacBook Air M2 review - The faster 10-core GPU isn't worth it
Notebookcheck tests the new MacBook Air M2 with 16 GB of RAM, 1-TB SSD, and the faster 10-core GPU.www.notebookcheck.net
There seems to be something very funky going on then. Because even with the iphone camera at 240 fps, flickering is clearly visible on the new M2 Air. Whereas the 2018 pros don't have any flickering noticeable on camera.
Possibilities:
1. Notebookcheck didn't check the simplest method.
2. Notebookcheck is lying.
3. Notebookcheck got a unit with a different screen.
4. There's something, other than PWM and temporal dithering, that causes visible flickering, which wasn't present on the 2018 screens.
The straightforward likelihood is that their confused about temporal dithering. Because from every source I know of it certainly is baked into both the M1 and M2. Because the screen itself is not 10 bit native, so to display billions of colors it must be utilized.
So this probably applies to iPads as well, then- all of them that have p3 color gamut would have to have temporal dithering, correct?
the M1 air is especially problematic then in that it has Pwm along with the seemingly likely temporal dithering.
such a shame as it’s an absolutely fantastic device.
It could be also that during supply shortages, apple is unable to maintain quality of their parts, so it produces one batch for one region or segment, and another for other. This was common practice in some product areas where some corporates caught up selling lower grade produces to some regions for the same price. But, with apple, it is something odd, because you have a lot of influencers, who are just promoting, but not giving enough scrutiny. Based on picture in this test, it is obvious that particular screen is flickering beast. Regarding those older macbooks, I can confirm that about that year, those laptops in 13 inch size where superb and I had one from work. I remember using it, and it was absolutely brilliant and easy on the eyes in comparison to first 15 inch MacBook with touchpad I had from 2016, which was very bad on the eyes. Generally, considering that there is component shortages after Covid, every unit needs to be individually tested, there is no way around it, unless its an older pre pandemic model, which may have better data in these testing sites.
Yes, the only product that Apple sells with a true 10 bit native display is the Prodisplay XDR.
Yes Notebookcheck might have got a unit with a different screen since they buy from the German Apple retail channel for their testing units, as far as I know.
Would there be any reason for Apple to use temporal dithering on displays that are not P3- such as the older MacBook Airs, or as noted above- the iPad 9 and iPad 10 that are only sRGB- would those seemingly be "safe" in regards to dithering?
I took slow-mo video on my iPhone if the display on my iPad 10th gen with a solid white screen, and though it's not as severe as what was shared from the MacBook on this thread- there is some weird flickering on it as well.
Notebookcheck supposedly confirmed that the iPad 10 had no temporal dithering- but as we have discussed here, I don't trust their findings as they also "confirmed" no dithering on the M1 and M2 MacBook Airs, and both are causing eye strain for some people and are even seen to be flickering as shown in this thread.
I don't understand this thread. My M2 Air screen looks fine, even fantastic, dare I say. What is all this chatter about? Dithering? PWM? Huh?
If the spec sheet says "billions of colors" anywhere in it, for any Apple product with a screen, then it has temporal dithering, except for the Prodisplay XDR. On the Intel Macs it's possible to turn off.
Gotcha.... makes sense. But if it says "millions of colors"- sRGB instead of P3- then we are probably OK? Or are they going even cheaper on those, and putting a 6 bit display in them instead of 8 bit, and doing 6 bit + 2 bit frc (temporal dithering)? That would seem unlikely, but now nothing seems out of bounds in regards to Apple's corner cutting on displays.
That's much more difficult to assess, perhaps you need to know the panel manufacturer on a case-by-case basis.
Though the lack of 10 bit native displays is not really corner cutting as no consumer product has them. There are other ways to cost cut such as accepting larger variance in displays as they leave the factory. Or accepting displays with worse color accuracy, etc..
My M2 Air shows zero flicker when using the iphone 240 fps camera. On the other hand, the 14" and 16" MBP show clear flickering, especially at lower than 6 brightness bars. The M1 Air has PWM but shows no flicker on my iPhone camera, probably because its PWM is higher frequency than the Pros.
So I will guess either #3 in your list, or the person showing the flicker has a bad screen.
I have tested multiple M2 MBA screens sold in both the US and Romania, and none of them show any flicker.
But anyway I think notebookcheck uses oscilloscopes to test the screens, not phone cameras like us.
FWIW I personally find the M2 Air screen to be the easiest on my eyes, the M1 Air pretty ok, and the M1x Pros aggressive and eye fatiguing.
I've been looking at all the forums and posts related to this and bought both the M2 Air and M2 13" pro myself to do some comparisons so hopefully this should help some people:
The M2 Air definitely has temporal dithering/PWM. Notebookcheck was wrong or somehow missed this in their measurement. Recording in slow-mo reveals that some shimmering effect is absolutely present, especially when displaying gray. This does not happen on the M2 13" Pro. Because of this I would recommend getting the 13" Pro if you're sensitive to flickering like I am. While the M2 Air wasn't unusable, like many here I feel like I shouldn't have to simply tolerate looking at a $1000+ screen.
The M2 Air definitely has temporal dithering/PWM. Notebookcheck was wrong or somehow missed this in their measurement. Recording in slow-mo reveals that some shimmering effect is absolutely present, especially when displaying gray. This does not happen on the M2 13" Pro. Because of this I would recommend getting the 13" Pro if you're sensitive to flickering like I am. While the M2 Air wasn't unusable, like many here I feel like I shouldn't have to simply tolerate looking at a $1000+ screen.
That is nice insight, thanks for sharing this. Of course it would be good to have actual person who is fully happy after purchase. Regarding pro, I think with laptops its the same as with bicycles, i.e. one bicycle might look the same as the other, but once you unpeel the onion you realise there is frame materials, alloys, actual assembly, welding etc. The same with laptops, PRO should be at least a bit better in most cases. BUT, I think macbook air m1 still an excellent laptop, with lower grade colour profile it is much more usable. Also, you still can buy portable external screen like zenscreen from Asus and make very affordable portable solution. It costs only 200 usd with usb-c connection. Add tripod stand for 30 usd, and you have portable dual screen beast. This beast will allow to have better posture, and you can switch off laptop screen if you do not like it.
I agree, there definitely is something going on with Notebookcheck's measurements, or more generally the idea of using oscilloscopes to measure things seen by the eye. They're not measuring flicker as seen by the eye at all, but the electrical PWM seen by an oscilloscope, which sounds obvious when phrased that way.
Before this adventure into screen technology I assumed those were one and the same, but now with clear evidence that the M2 macbook air has noticeable flickering, viewable through any 240 fps slow-mo camera, I think the whole oscilloscope measuring method is bogus.
Ideally to compare they need a high fps camera, maybe 960 fps, and record displays side by side like the example video above. Then do a frame-by-frame analysis. IDK if the 2018 macbooks flicker when viewed at 960 fps, but I have a hunch there's more going on here.
Does your M2 screen flicker?
I've seen one video on the internet of a flickering M2 Air screen, but then I went and checked several M2 Airs myself and could not find a single one that flickers (when viewed through the 240fps iPhone camera), including my own.
OTOH I can see clear flickering on all the M1p MBPs I've checked, at 5 brightness bars or lower, using the same method.
My conclusion was that the M2 Air screen in that video must be defective, and notebookcheck is right, and the vast majority of screens are very nice and without flicker. Of course my conclusion may be wrong, but what do you base your assessment on? Does anybody else have a flickering M2 Air screen that we can see?