Quality of Moderation on MacRumors Forums

[rm5]

I'm sick of being ignored when attempting to contact via email and discuss or repeal some decisions made on here and it seems that many, MANY others have the same issues - and are simply banned and have posts removed before anybody would know.

How could you have seen these "many, many" incidents if you've been a member for such a short time? Also, why even publicly discuss your frustrations—how will that help?

The moderators are definitely biased in my opinion. Stuff I wouldn't even consider being political is being censored as political.

I don't know if there's bias in moderation, and really no one does. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of anything. Look at this for a discussion of this issue.

 

[avz]

You're welcome to exclude yourself from 'everyone', but you have zero influence on the words I use, including 'everyone'. This is an internet forum, not a court room. I will use as many generalisations and assumptions I want, and if I'm wrong that's fine too.

There is nothing wrong in "taking on a system, cause' the system sucks" but you are just going to shoot yourself in the head through poor choice of words even on the internet forum. So I actually felt that the poster who reminded you about the importance of the choice of words was more sympathetic towards your "struggle with the system" than you realized.

 

[tolsen718]

I don't know if there's bias in moderation, and really no one does. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of anything. Look at this for a discussion of this issue.

Thank you for the link. Since I wrote that comment, my views on this have changed somewhat. I now think a large part of the bias may be reporting bias.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Thank you for the link. Since I wrote that comment, my views on this have changed somewhat. I now think a large part of the bias may be reporting bias.

Since you are new here, (and welcome by the way) I did want to mention that there is oversight with each report of possible forum violation. Even though a single moderator's name is on the PM to a forum member noting a violation, the report was also reviewed by other moderators.

I have had my wrist lightly slapped a few times (via a Moderator reminder PM) over the years. And even though I haven't agreed with particular moderation at times, I believe the staff to be fair. Moderating isn't always an easy task and no matter what a moderator may do, there will be people who vociferously disagree to the point where the forum member reaction is overblown.

Edited to add: @tolsen718 I apologize for calling you new. I hadn't seen you before on the forum.

 

[maflynn]

Since you are new here,

You know @tolsen718 has been a member here for 4 years - I'd say that makes him a seasoned MR veteran

I believe the staff to be fair.

Here's my take, early on as a moderator, I was very much of the mindset that rules needed to be enforced period - very black and white. I think many people would say I was probably more on the strict side of things, but as I continued as a moderator my perspective changed. Its more about fostering and enabling open dialog and discussions. Not about ensuring rules are followed to the letter. I would hope that people would view the last few years of my service to be that of a more accommodating and patient moderator. I was more likely to send a private note over a behavior change then a reminder (for minor infractions) and believed in explaining in detail why something was not permitted.

I've said this before, I think an increase in open dialog, and transparency between the staff and members will only make MR a better forum. I understand there needs to be a balance between member privacy (I fully support this) and transparency, but I think administrators and moderators need to do more and be more open on what happens, how it happens and why it happens.

When the site was smaller and the rules were simpler, then a simple canned warning, and a follow up by an admin was fine, but now with over a million members, and the complexity of our rules, I think we need more timely and open follow up by the staff and also the administrators to be a bit more up front and willing to discuss things openly.

 

[Apple_Robert]

You know @tolsen718 has been a member here for 4 years - I'd say that makes him a seasoned MR veteran


Here's my take, early on as a moderator, I was very much of the mindset that rules needed to be enforced period - very black and white. I think many people would say I was probably more on the strict side of things, but as I continued as a moderator my perspective changed. Its more about fostering and enabling open dialog and discussions. Not about ensuring rules are followed to the letter. I would hope that people would view the last few years of my service to be that of a more accommodating and patient moderator. I was more likely to send a private note over a behavior change then a reminder (for minor infractions) and believed in explaining in detail why something was not permitted.

I've said this before, I think an increase in open dialog, and transparency between the staff and members will only make MR a better forum. I understand there needs to be a balance between member privacy (I fully support this) and transparency, but I think administrators and moderators need to do more and be more open on what happens, how it happens and why it happens.

When the site was smaller and the rules were simpler, then a simple canned warning, and a follow up by an admin was fine, but now with over a million members, and the complexity of our rules, I think we need more timely and open follow up by the staff and also the administrators to be a bit more up front and willing to discuss things openly.

In regards to mod notifications etc., I agree. Getting a canned warning etc. can be sufficient if the violation is clear cut and obvious but, sometimes, members still may be confused or have questions.

While Mod oversight is present with such things, I think it would be a good idea for a member who gets a friendly reminder or more, to be able to speak one on one with the mods / staff in real time (like we do here) via a separate and private forum and thread for just that member to handle such things. That way, it would be more personal and any questions and concerns with a particular action or lack thereof, could be handled quicker and hopefully, more concisely leaving the member with a better understanding of what happened and why, and not lead to waiting a week or more for each interaction via email with staff.

 

[maflynn]

While Mod oversight is present with such things, I think it would be a good idea for a member who gets a friendly reminder or more, to be able to speak one on one with the mods / staff in real time

The current policy is that if you have questions/concerns over a given moderation, you need to use the contact us link and not reach out to the moderator. I generally added details to the canned message providing a more descriptive explanation and I wasn't opposed to answering a private message for clarification. The turn around time for the contact us process is so long that sometimes a quick private message reply goes a long way.

 

[Apple_Robert]

The current policy is that if you have questions/concerns over a given moderation, you need to use the contact us link and not reach out to the moderator. I generally added details to the canned message providing a more descriptive explanation and I wasn't opposed to answering a private message for clarification. The turn around time for the contact us process is so long that sometimes a quick private message reply goes a long way.

I think the current system could use a little improvement.

 

[jav6454]

"Waiting the right to privacy" - come off it. This is an internet forum, as far as you are all concerned - I am my username, and I am free to discuss me (as my username / profile / associate posts and experiences on the forum) as well as anyone else by their username and associated public info... that is not something anybody needs permission for. And insisting it via some other stupid policy would only back up what I would like to discuss and what everybody knows and feels about this forum.

Don't lump me in to your argument. Your viewpoints are not necessarily my viewpoints. For me, my business is my business, and not yours.

That said, if you don't agree with moderation feel free to not participate and leave. The internet is such a big place for you and there are other Apple-related forums or message boards where you can post.

As some users have pointed out, there are rules here which you agreed to follow when signing up. So the choice now becomes, either agree on how things are handled or leave.

You can raise awareness to a specific issue but not a generalized topic which will lead to nothing.

 

[CaptMarvel]

My question would be is there moderation of “off topic” posts that can be seen as flagged as off topic but still left in the thread to be seen and/or seen, but you can’t quote that flagged post or something of the sort?

Current moderation, deletes your post and sends you a PM for the infraction. While I agree with that approach IF it were hate speech, racist, profanity laced, antisemitic, homophobic, etc…if it is simply disagreement with the post at the discretion of a moderator, can the post stay up but be flagged for all to see? Would that then corral others from making the same mistake and conversation civil? Often times when posts are deleted for being off topic, and no other members know why, you’ll have countless other people making the same action/mistake, which comes off as censorship. In addition, a moderator opening a pm conversation and closing it where you cannot reply or inquire is one sided?

Something along the lines of “post flagged as off topic” in the reaction section of a post. Or a message like “you cannot quote this post as it has been flagged as off topic”.

Not sure how the site tools work, but just brainstorming.

 

[jav6454]

My question would be is there moderation of “off topic” posts that can be seen as flagged as off topic but still left in the thread to be seen and/or seen, but you can’t quote that flagged post or something of the sort?

Current moderation, deletes your post and sends you a PM for the infraction. While I agree with that approach IF it were hate speech, racist, profanity laced, antisemitic, homophobic, etc…if it is simply disagreement with the post at the discretion of a moderator, can the post stay up but be flagged for all to see? Would that then corral others from making the same mistake and conversation civil? Often times when posts are deleted for being off topic, and no other members know why, you’ll have countless other people making the same action/mistake, which comes off as censorship. In addition, a moderator opening a pm conversation and closing it where you cannot reply or inquire is one sided?

Something along the lines of “post flagged as off topic” in the reaction section of a post. Or a message like “you cannot quote this post as it has been flagged as off topic”.

Not sure how the site tools work, but just brainstorming.

Off-topic posts should be removed IMO. If they are left there, what ends up happening is that they are an opening into a discussion that will derail the thread.

As such, it's best to prune these posts.

 

[icanhazmac]

Often times when posts are deleted for being off topic, and no other members know why, you’ll have countless other people making the same action/mistake, which comes off as censorship.

I agree with @jav6454, when someone posts something off-topic it can derail the entire thread and fill it with meaningless (to the topic at hand) posts. I would much rather read a "pruned" 3 page thread of relevant information versus a 6 page thread that had 3 pages of off-topic posts.

 

[Weaselboy]

My question would be is there moderation of “off topic” posts that can be seen as flagged as off topic but still left in the thread to be seen and/or seen, but you can’t quote that flagged post or something of the sort?

We could do that, but it would violate our privacy policy of moderation being a private matter.

Also, there is no way to stop a post from being quoted, so it would likely lead to more off-topic posts in the thread, as others have mentioned.

 

[KaliYoni]

can the post stay up but be flagged for all to see?

That would be too Hester Prynne for me.

 

[Weaselboy]

.... searches Wikipedia...

 

[AZhappyjack]

That would be too Hester Prynne for me.

.... searches Wikipedia...

The Scarlet Letter - Nathaniel Hawthorne... branded for all to see.

 

[floral]

As a point of reference, the OP recently got suspended... any replies to them will be futile for as long as they're benched.

 

[jav6454]

As a point of reference, the OP recently got suspended... any replies to them will be futile for as long as they're benched.

Likely he got benched due to some controversial post he made. I doubt he got ban-hammered as it takes a good amount of tries for that to happen.

That is assuming OP isn't a repeat offender or that the offense isn't categorically disastrous.

 

[maflynn]

Off-topic posts should be removed IMO. If they are left there, what ends up happening is that they are an opening into a discussion that will derail the thread.

As such, it's best to prune these posts.

But is it black and white?

I mean there are times when the dialog is organically shifting, and it may be a little different then the original topic, but the sidebar chatter may be somewhat relevant and more importantly helpful. I think there ought to be some latitude on that

This very topic is prime example, where the discussions turned from the OP's complaint about the staff not responding and the quality of moderation to how off topic posts are/are not handled, up to but including posts about the Scarlet Letter which seemingly veered so far away from the original intent of the thread. Yet with that said, I think what others have posted is worthwhile and beneficial, and it would be unfortunate to have those posts disappear.

Also many attempts at humor can be considered offtopic and removing those, would make MR so much sadder. We need levity, and good humor imo

 

[AZhappyjack]

But is it black and white?

I mean there are times when the dialog is organically shifting, and it may be a little different then the original topic, but the sidebar chatter may be somewhat relevant and more importantly helpful. I think there ought to be some latitude on that

This very topic is prime example, where the discussions turned from the OP's complaint about the staff not responding and the quality of moderation to how off topic posts are/are not handled, up to but including posts about the Scarlet Letter which seemingly veered so far away from the original intent of the thread. Yet with that said, I think what others have posted is worthwhile and beneficial, and it would be unfortunate to have those posts disappear.

Also many attempts at humor can be considered offtopic and removing those, would make MR so much sadder. We need levity, and good humor imo

Agree with this. I've had my hand slapped a few times... and at least once for what I thought was unwarranted... but then again, I've probably received the "benefit of the doubt" more than once... in my overall experience, I find the moderation pretty even-handed here. An occasional off topic post/joke/cultural reference is fine, but the issue is that sometimes those posts can quickly devolve into a total derailment of the thread. That, IMO, is where the moderation here excels... and humor is good - it can often ease the tension and bring the discussion back to the point of the thread.

 

[jav6454]

But is it black and white?

I mean there are times when the dialog is organically shifting, and it may be a little different then the original topic, but the sidebar chatter may be somewhat relevant and more importantly helpful. I think there ought to be some latitude on that

This very topic is prime example, where the discussions turned from the OP's complaint about the staff not responding and the quality of moderation to how off topic posts are/are not handled, up to but including posts about the Scarlet Letter which seemingly veered so far away from the original intent of the thread. Yet with that said, I think what others have posted is worthwhile and beneficial, and it would be unfortunate to have those posts disappear.

Also many attempts at humor can be considered offtopic and removing those, would make MR so much sadder. We need levity, and good humor imo

There should be some level of flexibility when it comes to off-topic. But in essence, if the discussion is veering too far off, it's best to just prune these posts.

But, if the value of the content is relevant enough, perhaps spin those posts into a separate thread.

 

[ATX_wapiti]

I think organic conversation is paramount, especially in some of the megathreads that are more about hyping up the launch of a new device and less about one specific topic. I can understand how if we are in a thread talking about iPhone 15 camera performance and someone is talking about what they had for brunch, it could be distracting and take away from the point of the thread. That being said, the moderation of the megathreads was not handled well in my opinion this year and it totally sucked the air out of the excitement that many of us were experiencing together.

I don't know that I will continue to be a Macrumors Reader or Forum member after this year. I value community, conversation, connection, and just getting to have organic conversations with my fellow tech heads. Wishing Macrumors the best of luck with the moderation topic in the future.

 

[thatappleguytoday]

I hate it here now. Is that on topic or off? 🤔

 

[FlightLevel310]

I hate it here now. Is that on topic or off? 🤔

Is it due to moderation? In that case, on topic.

 

[rjjacobson]

I think organic conversation is paramount, especially in some of the megathreads that are more about hyping up the launch of a new device and less about one specific topic. I can understand how if we are in a thread talking about iPhone 15 camera performance and someone is talking about what they had for brunch, it could be distracting and take away from the point of the thread. That being said, the moderation of the megathreads was not handled well in my opinion this year and it totally sucked the air out of the excitement that many of us were experiencing together.

I don't know that I will continue to be a Macrumors Reader or Forum member after this year. I value community, conversation, connection, and just getting to have organic conversations with my fellow tech heads. Wishing Macrumors the best of luck with the moderation topic in the future.

I am in similar mode @ATX_wapiti about how I value the community with the organic of real varied conversation and threads that allow for such. Well stated