Resolved Retina iMac Image Retention

[accentaudio]

Re-read my post. I stated that half the issues come from using the devices in question in unrealistic fashion, such as needing to press the back side of an iPad Air 2 unnecessarily hard to see the screen distortion issue. I wasn't specifically talking about IR, but issues in general that are widespread on the forum. If you are seeing this under normal, it's clearly a problem and not who I was talking about. A checker board is an unrealistic fashion, because I can't think of anyone who is constantly putting checker boards on their screen.

Try reading comprehension before you get butt hurt. The fact that I said half the issues and you still came to the conclusion that I was specifically talking about you guys who reported problems already shows this.

I think maybe you should take a bit of your own advice and go back and re-read what I wrote. IR is a serious issue, and the checkerboard test just emphasizes it to be seen more clearly, an underlying issue that is already there. There is nothing "unrealistic" about testing your devices to make sure that they are up to snuff. Again, ignorance is bliss, and in your case it shows. "Butt hurt"? LOL enough said...

 

[TechZeke]

I realize that most people will never run the checkerboard test on their Macs because ignorance is bliss. Nonetheless the issue remains.

I'll do checkerboard test on my year-old 15" rMBP when I get home from work, if it makes you feel better. In fact, it should be requirement to the checkerboard test with each new mac.

 

[TechZeke]

I think maybe you should take a bit of your own advice and go back and re-read what I wrote. IR is a serious issue, and the checkerboard test just emphasizes it to be seen more clearly, an underlying issue that is already there. There is nothing "unrealistic" about testing your devices to make sure that they are up to snuff. Again, ignorance is bliss, and in your case it shows. "Butt hurt"? LOL enough said...

It has nothing to do with ignorance. What by definition is "up to snuff"? Surely my iPad Air 2 isn't up to snuff if it can't withstand 50 lbs of force without screen distorting? If my display works as intended during normal usage, then I don't see much reason to look for an underlying problem just for sake of looking for a problem. If you ARE seeing this during normal usage, then you need to get a replacement. Like I said, I guess the checkerboard test should be mandatory for each new mac instead of just using it, using your logic. I'm not here to argue, nor claim the IR issues aren't serious.

 

[accentaudio]

It has nothing to do with ignorance. What by definition is "up to snuff"? Surely my iPad Air 2 isn't up to snuff if it can't withstand 50 lbs of force without screen distorting? If my display works as intended during normal usage, then I don't see much reason to look for an underlying problem. If you ARE seeing this during normal usage, then you need to get a replacement. Like I said, I guess the checkerboard test should be mandatory for each new mac under your logic.

Argue with yourself fanboy.

 

[Johnf1285]

The TLC vs MLC flash memory iPhone 6 thing and the iPad Air 2 screen distortion being the worse of them all.

I suspect that IR gets through QC because it's probably unnoticeable under normal usage(Which are half the issues on forum are about. You'd have to use the device in some unrealistic fashion to see the "issues") for all but the most extreme cases.(Plus the fact that for many IR doesn't show until much later)

If I went looking for every difference in manufacturer for every component in my devices because of these forums I'd go mad.

Totally agree about the "have to use the device in some unrealistic fashion to see the "issues" !

 

[accentaudio]

Totally agree about the "have to use the device in some unrealistic fashion to see the "issues" !

Then you are both equally delusional and neither one of you have very good reading comprehension skills. Go back to the very beginning of this thread and read it all the way through. Nobody is using their device in an unrealistic fashion that is having these issues. Stop being sheep and blindly supporting Apple. Get off your knees and stop servicing a company that is in the wrong. I have been a Mac user for 20 years, and I am the first person to stand up and say that they make amazing products, but I am also the first person to stand up and say when something is legitimately wrong and needs to be addressed, but then again I am an Apple user, not a fanboy. What voodoo is it that Apple has that enables them to sprinkle magic fairy dust over some people's eyes and blind them to reality, oh that's right, it's called cult followers, and ignorance. I mean seriously, if you aren't having the issue yourself why even bother to hop on to a thread where people are and argue with them? That says everything in itself right there. It's the MIB clean up team LOL. Now look into this flashy thing. None of this ever happened.

 

[Lancetx]

It's funny, but I noticed image retention a good bit with my prior Mid 2011 21.5" iMac (particularly with the static drive icons on the desktop for example), but have not seen any of that at all so far with the 27" r5K I replaced it with a few weeks ago now.

 

[aevan]

I have a certain amount of IR when using the checkerboard test, but never notice it otherwise. So, I don't mind it at all.

 

[dyn]

People here are weird. Normally nobody wants problems but here they are actively seeking for them As usual most will only see a "problem" after jumping through lots of hoops such as displaying a checkerboard.

As for image retention or burn-in....lot of people seem to be thinking this was a CRT problem which doesn't exist in LCD/plasma panels. You couldn't be more wrong. Every LCD/plasma panel is prone to this problem and yes that means IPS as well as TN too! It's a huge problem when you do narrowcasting since most TVs use a TN panel or some other LCD technology. Same thing for those big screens that are used to display some nice statistics. If you always keep the same windows open in the same positions or display presentations that all have the same theme you'll eventually end up with burned-in images. Burn-in is something that you prevent by displaying different images and different presentations using different themes. Using a screensaver was a must back in the days and it has never changed.

I naturally move around my windows when I work at the computer. Not to prevent burn-in but simply because it's more convenient at that time to have the window a certain size and at a certain position. I'm also using a screensaver and have OS X set up to ask for my password when interrupting the screensaver. This is one of the ways to lock your computer in OS X, Windows, Linux, etc. Whenever I walk away from the computer I lock it (at work this is mandatory due to our certifications). I suppose this has been a very effective way to prevent burn-in.

 

[kepler20b]

People here are weird. Normally nobody wants problems but here they are actively seeking for them As usual most will only see a "problem" after jumping through lots of hoops such as displaying a checkerboard.

As for image retention or burn-in....lot of people seem to be thinking this was a CRT problem which doesn't exist in LCD/plasma panels. You couldn't be more wrong. Every LCD/plasma panel is prone to this problem and yes that means IPS as well as TN too! It's a huge problem when you do narrowcasting since most TVs use a TN panel or some other LCD technology. Same thing for those big screens that are used to display some nice statistics. If you always keep the same windows open in the same positions or display presentations that all have the same theme you'll eventually end up with burned-in images. Burn-in is something that you prevent by displaying different images and different presentations using different themes. Using a screensaver was a must back in the days and it has never changed.

I naturally move around my windows when I work at the computer. Not to prevent burn-in but simply because it's more convenient at that time to have the window a certain size and at a certain position. I'm also using a screensaver and have OS X set up to ask for my password when interrupting the screensaver. This is one of the ways to lock your computer in OS X, Windows, Linux, etc. Whenever I walk away from the computer I lock it (at work this is mandatory due to our certifications). I suppose this has been a very effective way to prevent burn-in.

it's kind of bizarre

like when people show backlight bleed and crank up the brightness to 100% I'm like WTF? how is that relevant because no one ever uses brightness at 100%.

 

[dyn]

I actually use it when it's sunny outside, like in summer, nice weather It makes things easier to read on screen. The auto-adjust brightness is actually good on this iMac.

 

[ZipZap]

Really...? Then I have that bad of luck. 4 different 2013 iMacs and every single one has had bad IR straight out of the box. What am I missing?

Guess I could try ONE more time...

Maybe its what you are doing on the iMac?

 

[accentaudio]

Maybe its what you are doing on the iMac?

For the thousandth time NO! People seriously stop coming in on the end of a thread and commenting out of ignorance. Read the entire thread start to finish before commenting.

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it's kind of bizarre

like when people show backlight bleed and crank up the brightness to 100% I'm like WTF? how is that relevant because no one ever uses brightness at 100%.

No one EVER uses 100% brightness. You're right, Apple should put out a bulletin. NO ONE SHOULD EVER TURN UP THEIR BRIGHTNESS TO 100%, OUR PRODUCTS MIGHT SHOW A FLAW...

----------

People here are weird. Normally nobody wants problems but here they are actively seeking for them As usual most will only see a "problem" after jumping through lots of hoops such as displaying a checkerboard.

As for image retention or burn-in....lot of people seem to be thinking this was a CRT problem which doesn't exist in LCD/plasma panels. You couldn't be more wrong. Every LCD/plasma panel is prone to this problem and yes that means IPS as well as TN too! It's a huge problem when you do narrowcasting since most TVs use a TN panel or some other LCD technology. Same thing for those big screens that are used to display some nice statistics. If you always keep the same windows open in the same positions or display presentations that all have the same theme you'll eventually end up with burned-in images. Burn-in is something that you prevent by displaying different images and different presentations using different themes. Using a screensaver was a must back in the days and it has never changed.

I naturally move around my windows when I work at the computer. Not to prevent burn-in but simply because it's more convenient at that time to have the window a certain size and at a certain position. I'm also using a screensaver and have OS X set up to ask for my password when interrupting the screensaver. This is one of the ways to lock your computer in OS X, Windows, Linux, etc. Whenever I walk away from the computer I lock it (at work this is mandatory due to our certifications). I suppose this has been a very effective way to prevent burn-in.

I wasn't "looking for a flaw". The flaw found me. And I guess I will say it yet AGAIN. Read this entire thread, start to finish so you can become more educated thus giving you a better likelihood of having an applicable response. Once a person is AWARE of the flaw, it becomes easier to spot. Which goes back to what I said before. Ignorance is bliss. For some reason Apple people tend to fall into that category. God forbid they find out there might be an issue with their precious product. Oh no, now we must defend the Apple gods tooth and nail regardless of how idiotic and fanboy like we start to sound. Let me put it simply. THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH THE IPS PANELS THAT APPLE IS GETTING FROM LG. Now I don't know if it is ALL or SOME, but there are issues. This issue was not as apparent when Apple was sourcing both Samsung and LG for their panels. Coincidence? I think not. Have a Google search. It will do wonders for you!

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it's kind of bizarre

like when people show backlight bleed and crank up the brightness to 100% I'm like WTF? how is that relevant because no one ever uses brightness at 100%.

Try this one on for size...

"Apple is facing a potential class action suit in San Francisco's California Northern District Court after an owner of its MacBook Pro with Retina display accused the computer company on Wednesday of 'tricking' consumers into paying for a poor-quality screen, citing an increasingly common problem that causes images to be burned into the display, also known as 'image persistence' or 'ghosting.' The lawsuit claims only LG-made screens are affected by this problem, but 'none of Apple's advertisements or representations disclose that it produces display screens that exhibit different levels of performance and quality.' Even though only one man filed the lawsuit, it can become a class action suit if others decide to join him in his claim, which might not be an issue: An Apple.com support thread for this particular problem, entitled 'MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in,' currently has more than 7,200 replies and 367,000 views across more than 500 pages."

"They used to get their displays from Samsung. They switched to LG, now they get **** LCD's. The first lot of Retina displays all came from Samsung. Apple got a reputation for having really good screens in their retina product line and have now switched to the lowest bidder, at the expense of quality."

"I followed some of the threads on this on MacRumors. Problem: A lot of the users there will automatically and unquestioningly attack anyone who suggests that an Apple product is imperfect in any way."

 

[redheeler]

it's kind of bizarre

like when people show backlight bleed and crank up the brightness to 100% I'm like WTF? how is that relevant because no one ever uses brightness at 100%.

My iMac sits next to a window, so it is often at 100% brightness during the day. I also find that 100% brightness helps with movies/TV shows.

So yes, people do sometimes use their iMacs at 100% brightness.

 

[accentaudio]

My iMac sits next to a window, so it is often at 100% brightness during the day. I also find that 100% brightness helps with movies/TV shows.

So yes, people do sometimes use their iMacs at 100% brightness.

My wife's iMac sets in the kitchen next to all the windows that face our deck. She too has to turn it up to 100% during the day. Well I should say her iMac did sit there, until IR became an issue, it has been returned. I am now waiting for Apple to update its iMac line with the hopes that they have been listening and have worked these issues out with LG.

 

[redheeler]

My wife's iMac sets in the kitchen next to all the windows that face our deck. She too has to turn it up to 100% during the day. Well I should say her iMac did sit there, until IR became an issue, it has been returned. I am now waiting for Apple to update its iMac line with the hopes that they have been listening and have worked these issues out with LG.

How bad was the IR? I still remember my 2012 rMBP which had it right out of the box and it was bad screen-wide. On my iMac it's mainly that one edge/corner.

 

[accentaudio]

How bad was the IR? I still remember my 2012 rMBP which had it right out of the box and it was bad screen-wide. On my iMac it's mainly that one edge/corner.

I have had 4 2013 27" iMacs. They all had it terribly bad. The last 2 that we bought I literally took out of the box, turned the brightness to max, ran the IR test, and within 10 minutes they had it badly. So 2 brand new machines had it straight away out of the box. The reason I ran the test right away was because I was already aware of the issue and wasn't going to settle for it again. I wanted to make sure the machines got returned to Apple within the 14 days. I took them back to the Apple store that very same day. This issue has seriously got to be under investigation by their engineers by now. I certainly hope they have had contact with LG and have demanded better panels.

 

[redheeler]

I have had 4 2013 27" iMacs. They all had it terribly bad. The last 2 that we bought I literally took out of the box, turned the brightness to max, ran the IR test, and within 10 minutes they had it badly. So 2 brand new machines had it straight away out of the box. The reason I ran the test right away was because I was already aware of the issue and wasn't going to settle for it again. I wanted to make sure the machines got returned to Apple within the 14 days. I took them back to the Apple store that very same day. This issue has seriously got to be under investigation by their engineers by now. I certainly hope they have had contact with LG and have demanded better panels.

4... Even I have to admit that's terrible luck. I can definitely understand how that would make you reluctant to buy another iMac.

My 15" 2012 rMBP's display was replaced under warranty after failing the in-store checkerboard test in January 2013, and the replacement I was given was a Samsung with no image retention whatsoever leading me to believe they had solved the IR problems. Apparently I was quite wrong.

There are a couple other things I don't like about the iMac's display as well, a noticeably uneven color temp and a small bright dot underneath the pixels. It's only a matter of time before I finally bring it in for a replacement. I can only hope that my luck will be good and the replacement will be better.

 

[accentaudio]

4... Even I have to admit that's terrible luck. I can definitely understand how that would make you reluctant to buy another iMac.

My 15" 2012 rMBP's display was replaced under warranty after failing the in-store checkerboard test in January 2013, and the replacement I was given was a Samsung with no image retention whatsoever leading me to believe they had solved the IR problems. Apparently I was quite wrong.

There are a couple other things I don't like about the iMac's display as well, a noticeably uneven color temp and a small bright dot underneath the pixels. It's only a matter of time before I finally bring it in for a replacement. I can only hope that my luck will be good and the replacement will be better.

Yeah, I really wish that Apple would still use Samsung panels. I don't know whether they have burned that bridge completely, but that is what I have been reading. If that is the case then LG is their only supplier for panels now. If that is true then I believe Apple and their buying power should have every right to drop in on the QC process with these panels and get the IR issues resolved. I used to be under the illusion myself that Apple had the best displays out there. Well that appears to no longer be true. The one thing that I will say seems to be shifting with Apple that is not good, is how stringent they are on the quality of components being used. It seems now that they are beginning to allow things to slip by. And if everything that I have been reading is correct, then this IR issue has been plaguing them for many years now. It is time to get it taken care of once and for all. I don't have the luxury of taking an iMac into an Apple store and getting lucky enough to get a Samsung display because there are none to be had...

 

[accentaudio]

4... Even I have to admit that's terrible luck. I can definitely understand how that would make you reluctant to buy another iMac.

My 15" 2012 rMBP's display was replaced under warranty after failing the in-store checkerboard test in January 2013, and the replacement I was given was a Samsung with no image retention whatsoever leading me to believe they had solved the IR problems. Apparently I was quite wrong.

There are a couple other things I don't like about the iMac's display as well, a noticeably uneven color temp and a small bright dot underneath the pixels. It's only a matter of time before I finally bring it in for a replacement. I can only hope that my luck will be good and the replacement will be better.

Have a look at this one, if you think I have bad luck:

http://www.pixedelic.com/blog/imac-screen-issues/

 

[accentaudio]

Just for giggles I ran the IR checkerboard test on my 6 plus. Flawless, perfect screen. Bravo, Apple!

 

[dyn]

Read this entire thread, start to finish so you can become more educated thus giving you a better likelihood of having an applicable response.

So when are you going to start to read this thread from the beginning and all the replies instead of only the replies siding with you? If you want to understand the actual issue you really need to read up on how TFT panels work and then you'll see and understand that the checkerboard doesn't test anything. It only shows the property of IPS, PVA, TN, etc. panels. This is not new, it has been there for years and happens with every computer display.

THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH THE IPS PANELS THAT APPLE IS GETTING FROM LG.

NO THERE ISN'T AN ISSUE WITH IPS PANELS FROM LG. THIS IS A GENERAL TFT ISSUE AND HAPPENS TO ALL PANELS.

Try this one on for size...

You do know that the success rate of such lawsuits is around 1% right? You also know that a pending lawsuit doesn't say anything at all. It only has a meaning when the judge came to a verdict. As long as they are not convicted they are not guilty

"They used to get their displays from Samsung. They switched to LG, now they get **** LCD's.

Except that the issue users reported was with ALL the retina displays no matter who made it. Somehow people seem to be pointing the finger at LG, no one has ever given actual proof that LG is indeed worse than Samsung (there are quite a few companies who've send back their entire stock of Samsung displays because they were crap...that's hundreds of displays...same can be said about LG).

"I followed some of the threads on this on MacRumors. Problem: A lot of the users there will automatically and unquestioningly attack anyone who suggests that an Apple product is imperfect in any way."

Unfortunately there are 3 kinds of users here: people only seeing problems, people denying everything and a very very small minority of people who are actually realistic. More than 90% fall into the first categories, you being one of them.

Reality is different: again, this is not an LG nor Samsung nor retina display issue, it's a general TFT issue. It's been there since the beginning of TFT's; we've known and seen the issue for more than 2 decades. And it wasn't the only issue with TFT's. Most of the issues have been fixed or reduced but TFT isn't without issues. Uniformity is still impossible, we still have dead/stuck pixels (although far less than 10 years ago), TN panels still can't show off colours properly but have become faster, IPS panels do show off colours properly but are slow in refreshing and so on).

Anyone who has used TFT panels in the course of years knows the issues (or should know them) and knows the quality has become better but still isn't quite there yet. And anyone who actually read up on TFT technology should know better than the nonsense most here are posting.

 

[aevan]

Unfortunately there are 3 kinds of users here: people only seeing problems, people denying everything and a very very small minority of people who are actually realistic.

Quite true. I would add that it's not just perfectionism, people notice problems with such fury that one would think there is a conspiracy just to make their lives worse.

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

I posted a thread about this a couple years ago because it happened with my 2012 iMac. I had people saying I was unlucky and it wasn't widespread, but I exchanged the iMac several times and each one did it. I gave up and switched back to using PCs with external display.

Right now I have a Dell U2515H with LG panel and don't have image retention. However, if it did, I could easily exchange the display, and that is why I prefer external displays and am hesitant to buy another iMac. Any LCD can have issues such as clouding, flashlighting, and image retention, but it is much easier to replace a monitor than it is the whole computer, IMO.

Every time I think about buying one again I see threads like this and change my mind. I wish Apple would just make a headless Mac with the same specs as the iMac.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1509571/

Here is a pic from the 2012 iMac that I returned.

 

[ZipZap]

Over time I have not seen many threads in this subject. If it was so common a problem they'd be everywhere. I have had many laptops and monitors and no issue with image retention (except on my plasma TV ).

This is very clearly an iMac issue.