Returning my 16 MBP

[wallysb01]

There are lots of reasons why a desktop would be faster than a laptop, even with the same "notional" CPU. The TDP of a laptop is never going to match that of a desktop. Laptop RAM is slower than desktop RAM. Motherboard design and chipsets make trade-offs for laptops. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than myself could list many other reasons, too. How much impact each factor has will vary from task to task. I'd guess Xcode builds are dominated by single-core performance, memory bandwidth, and I/O bandwidth.
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I mean this in the best way possible, but I'm not sure you really know much about what you're saying. The CPU can draw way more power than the TDP if allowed by the thermals. And one core running full tilt won't remotely hit the TDP. On my machine its hitting like 25-30W with a single thread running at 5GHz. When all threads kick on, it can spike to 90-100W draw. Anyway between the 9900K and the 9980HK, the memory bandwidth is the same, 41.8 GB/s, duel channel, bus speed the same, cache the same, max turbo the same, I/O access via PCIe or SATA is going to the be same. Its not like these things just get slower because its a laptop. I'd bet this is a software difference. What OS is your desktop? Maybe this app is doing some thing strange to run on macOS. Maybe even its configured to run better on an older MacOS version on your 2013?

Sure, it's definitely an individual choice, and depends on one's comfort level with performing such upgrades and the various risks involved. For me it would be a no brainer - I think the risks are minimal and the cost savings are huge - although I would obviously test the machine thoroughly first before going ahead, in case there was a manufacturing fault that needed attention.
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What if the problem encountered happens 6 months in? Say the mother board is the culprit, but you have aftermarket ram and boot drive, what do you think Lenovo is going to say you do?

As pointed out in an earlier post, you can do it for *much* cheaper than 3K by upgrading the RAM and SSD yourself, something you can do with most PC laptops, but cannot currently do with any MacBook.

For example, Apple charges $600 for the 2TB SSD upgrade. You can buy a Sabrent 2TB NVMe SSD for $250 and sell a 512GB SSD for $70, so an equivalent upgrade to a PC laptop can be done for $180.

Apple charges $400 for the 32GB RAM upgrade, from 16GB. You can buy 32GB DDR4 2666MHz RAM for $115 and sell 16GB for around $70, so that upgrade should cost $35.

So we've just saved $420 + $365 = $785 on upgrades alone. But those upgrade prices are on top of an already very high base price. During a good sale, the Lenovos start around $1200. The base MBP 16" will set you back $2400, a full $1200 more. $1200 + $785 = $1985.

Yes, Lenovo and Dell overcharge for upgrades too, but the point is, their machines are user upgradeable so a smart buyer can do it themselves, to save money.

The Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 for $1200, even the stripped down model? Link or didn't happen. Cheapest I see is roughly what it is currently, $1475, vs cheapest sale about $100 less. I think you're looking at gen 1....

I don't think you're going to sell 16GB of RAM as a naked stick or two pulled out of your machine for $70. You can get 16GB DDR4 modules for like $60 new (after all that's what your $115 per 32GB is assuming). Same for the SSD. A used drive without a box... $50. I mean, this is peanuts, I think the bigger issue is that you should probably keep those anyway incase you have a problem and need to ship the computer back to Lenovo. At the very least, get it through its warranty on the manufacture installed equipment. If you want to try to add things, like a second stick or drive, that's easier. And hey, if you're complaining about not being able to upgrade and fix the machine as you go, out of support, that would make a heck of a lot more sense and that's something I very much regret. I loved my 2011 MacBook Pro for that. Changed the battery twice, upgrade the ram, took out the ODD, moved the HDD in there, put in an SSD. I wish I could buy a modern Mac like that.... well, I could skip the ODD.

Anyway, point is, for a similarly spec-ed machine fully supported by the manufacture you're looking at maybe a 10-20% price gap. Some call this the Apple tax. Look, I'm not going to argue that Apple computers aren't expensive. They are, but its often overstated and usually because of the exact things you're doing, throwing away or neglecting certain aspects that have value, like support. Its pure spec sheet comparisons. You can cobble together a lot of stuff for cheap and build a computer from scratch, but you are then your own support. When something fails, you have to track down what it was and contact each vendor and convince them its their problem, not some other component's problem. Its all your time. Here, I can clone a machine in a few hours and be back on my feet while the old machine sails off. I can't get the OS anywhere else either, not a supported one anyway. And this is coming from a guy that's done a home built computer and made it run OS X. I eventually gave up and put windows on it, but it worked, sort of. I have also played support on two linux servers at work, configured and built a server for another small company. I've done this for a job. And that's kind of the point, its a job. Its your time. $3000 for "it just works" vs $2400 for the specs match now lets hope it holds together...

 

[Jl006p]

Don't take this as an attack or anything, genuine question: why do you (OP) and many others feel the need to create an entirely new thread to tell us you're returning your computer?

It's not like you're bringing anything to the conversation as most of your complaints are either known bugs, simply subjective things (that you honestly could really have known beforehand, you can't be surprised you miss USB-A if you have tons of USB A peripherals) or very obvious things (a thin and laptop being noisy during heavy work is not only obvious but kinda wanted, you need to cool things down a lot.)

So I don't really get it, I didn't create a thread to tell the world I got mine.

Good of you btw to return a laptop that clearly isn't for you, more people should do that.

The reason I made this thread is b/c i'm still on the fence on returning it and I wanted to see who else is in the same boat. My biggest issue is getting the displayport to work on my monitor. I bought 2 adapters and both have failed to work. Maybe you guys can help me out?

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

What OS is your desktop? Maybe this app is doing some thing strange to run on macOS. Maybe even its configured to run better on an older MacOS version on your 2013?

My desktop is also running Mac OS, exactly the same version of Mac OS that is running on my MBP 16". The software stack is exactly the same. It's the same version of Xcode, the same version of Flutter, the same version of the Android SDK. The software being compiled is also exactly the same.

As I said earlier, desktop and laptop hardware might on paper appear to be quite similar, but there are fundamental differences which I listed in my earlier post. The big gap in build times is clear and convincing evidence that there are big differences. I have been building PCs and buying laptops for 30 years. Even a few basic Google searches will show you lots of reasons to expect desktops will perform better than laptops. Even basic things like memory - laptop RAM chips are not built in the same way as desktop RAM. The physical constraints on size and thermal limits cause manufacturers of chips of all kinds - motherboard chipsets, RAM chips, GPUs, CPUs, etc. - to make tradeoffs which affect performance. I would have thought this was obvious.

The kicker is, my desktop cost $2200 to build, including the monitor. The MBP 16" cost $3800. They both have 2TB SSD, 32GB RAM, etc. The desktop has a 4K monitor, a NVIDIA 2070 Super card which handily outperforms the AMD GPU in the MBP 16" by a sizeable margin. Of course laptops will usually be more expensive. However a similar non-Apple branded laptop would cost about the same, or less, than the desktop. And the only slightly better performing new Mac Pro costs $6000 (512GB SSD only there too). Go figure.

So, really, I leave it to you to explain why the desktop is so much faster, given that you believe I don't "really know much about what you're saying". How do you explain the difference?
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What if the problem encountered happens 6 months in? Say the mother board is the culprit, but you have aftermarket ram and boot drive, what do you think Lenovo is going to say you do?

Upgrading SSD and RAM does not void Lenovo's warranty. The warranty just doesn't cover the SSD and RAM you installed. So, assuming the laptop is still within the warranty period, I think Lenovo is going to say "OK, we'll replace the motherboard."

Dell has the same policy.

Both facts are easily discovered by a Google search. I would hurl you back an insult relating to your level of knowledge, but it would not be civil or polite for me to do so.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

The Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 for $1200, even the stripped down model? Link or didn't happen.

I don't have to prove anything to you, whether it did or did not happen is a matter of historical fact, and the reality of the matter does not depend on whether I can find the time to send you a link or not.

But since you ask, at the time there was a 50% Black Friday sale, and Rakuten was offering an additional 12% cashback. That might have come to even less than $1200 depending on the configuration.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/e34nac
In fact, here's a screenshot of one configuration I put together. This is not the base, it has upgraded CPU and I've added the 4K IPS panel, so it's not directly comparable. It came to $1448. Minus the 12% Rakuten discount and 2% cashback on my credit card, that's $1245. Not far off $1200, and it includes a few extra unnecessary upgrades.

Why your never-ending skepticism? Why are you so keen to paint me as an ignorant fool? Why are you defending the MBP 16" in such an emotional and over-the-top way? Would it really hurt that much if it turned out Apple and its laptops were not as amazing as you had been led to believe? Would it be so hard to realize that other manufacturers make equally good, if not superior, and vastly cheaper, laptops?
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Its your time. $3000 for "it just works" vs $2400 for the specs match now lets hope it holds together...

Of course it's always a question of time vs money. It's a personal choice. However, in my experience, upgrading SSD and RAM is trivial. It only takes a few minutes, and you don't have to "hope it holds together", it just works. It's just not that difficult. Saving almost $2K for a few minutes work is a no brainer, in my opinion. That's equivalent to earning $3-4K before you pay your taxes. If I could make that money every minute of the year, it's equivalent to a salary of tens of millions of dollars. But perhaps you are a "Pro" in Apple parlance, and you can make more than that doing your day job, so it's not worth your time.

 

[49erRedGold]

In fact, here's a screenshot of one configuration I put together. This is not the base, it has upgraded CPU and I've added the 4K IPS panel, so it's not directly comparable. It came to $1448. Minus the 12% Rakuten discount and 2% cashback on my credit card, that's $1245. Not far off $1200, and it includes a few extra unnecessary upgrades.

View attachment 883783

I guess you were hoping nobody would read the spec list and see the 8GB of ram on that Thinkpad thing. Apple does not and has not included a mere 8GB of ram on their 16" or even the 15" since before 2014. And the base model 16" has 512GB SSD as opposed to your Lenovo that has only 256GB. The GPU in your Lenovo is inferior to the AMD 5300M and 5500M. Couple with the fact that your Lenovo is painted plastic with a carbon weave. Lenovo's Thinkpad screens are also very inferior to the 16" MBP. The Thinkpad screens have horrible backlight bleed and Lenovo customers have been very frustrated on Reddit that Lenovo refuses to use better quality displays. The 15" and now 16" MBP's P3 Color Gamut screens have little to no backlight bleed.
Even with those specs you chose for the Lenovo you had to grab a Black Friday deal to show how much cheaper the Lenovo could be. ?
Fully match spec for spec then come back. ?

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

I guess you were hoping nobody would read the spec list and see the 8GB of ram on that Thinkpad thing. Apple does not and has not included a mere 8GB of ram on their 16" or even the 15" since before 2014. And the base model 16" has 512GB SSD as opposed to your Lenovo that has only 256GB.

No, I was not hoping that. If you had actually bothered to read and understand the thread of the conversation, which apparently you have not, you would see that we have been talking about buying the most base model possible and doing RAM and SSD upgrades yourself. The comparison being made here is not between "base Lenovo" and "base Apple", it's between "self-upgraded Lenovo with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD" and "Apple-upgraded MBP with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD."

It seems you are making many posts here that are not adding to the conversation, 49erRedGold, perhaps it would be a good opportunity for you to refocus your attention to a different thread?
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Lenovo's Thinkpad screens are also very inferior to the 16" MBP. The Thinkpad screens have horrible backlight bleed and Lenovo customers have been very frustrated on Reddit that Lenovo refuses to use better quality displays. The 15" and now 16" MBP's P3 Color Gamut screens have little to no backlight bleed.

This is factually incorrect.

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Extreme Review (Core i7, Nvidia GTX 1650, 500-nit FHD screen)

Update: 10/10/2019 — added more bugs/instability notes

www.ultrabookreview.com

"Backlight bleed is minimal and the panel uniformity is outstanding."

Also, Lenovo and Dell now offer OLED panels, which by definition have no backlight bleed (there is no backlight). I disagree with your opinion that ThinkPad screens are "very inferior" to the 16" MBP. I'll start with the 16" MBP not having a true 4K capable screen. Then I'll mention the poor response time and ghosting issues with many of the MBP 16" screens (including the one I'm about to return). How about I add that OLED panels have infinite contrast ratio and excellent color gamuts, not to mention almost instantaneous response times.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

Even with those specs you chose for the Lenovo you had to grab a Black Friday deal to show how much cheaper the Lenovo could be. ?

I did not "have to grab a Black Friday deal" as you so graciously put it. Even without the Black Friday deals, the Lenovo laptops are still vastly cheaper. You can still get 40-50% off at most times of year. The purpose of quoting the Black Friday deal is to support the $1200 price assertion I made in an earlier post. Again, please read the entire thread of dialog before you jump in.

And where are Apple's Black Friday deals? Another reason I'm returning my MBP 16" is because since purchasing it, Apple has started offering 6% cash back via the Apple Card, and according to another thread here, Apple is mostly not extending that discount to customers who purchased their laptops before the cash back deal was offered but who are still within their return window. Even if I was considering keeping the laptop, I would be returning it and repurchasing it, because 6% of $4K is quite a lot of cash.

 

[49erRedGold]

Also, Lenovo and Dell now offer OLED panels, which by definition have no backlight bleed (there is no backlight).

Yeah and those panels are a build to order only option at a high extra cost with the added high cost of battery drain.

I disagree with your opinion that ThinkPad screens are "very inferior" to the 16" MBP.

Disagreeing doesn't change the fact that Lenovo's standard Thinkpad screens have terrible backlight bleed and it's really frustrated a lot of customers and Lenovo won't do a darn thing about it.

Also customer service plays a huge role in a product I will buy. Over the summer Laptop Magazine rated Lenovo being 2nd to dead last in customer service. Lenovo plugs their ears when customers have problems. This is a fact so if disagree then go check out Lenovo customer service ratings. It's not pretty.
Apple's customer service is constantly rated on top.

 

[PhoneI]

Word!!!


I like my good ol Lenovo P50.
I'm fortunate to be able to use both a 2018 MBP and a Lenovo P50 on a daily basis.

When I need to do some serious compute intensive work, the P50 is my first choice.
I can keep all 8 cores logical processors near 100% busy, sustaining 3.2Ghz for hours without thermal throttling. And the fans are barely audible (compared to the MBP under similar loads). Ya, it's a little thicker, and little heavier... but that thing is a work horse.

I couldn't use any machine with a 16:9 aspect ratio

 

[wallysb01]

I don't have to prove anything to you, whether it did or did not happen is a matter of historical fact, and the reality of the matter does not depend on whether I can find the time to send you a link or not.

But since you ask, at the time there was a 50% Black Friday sale, and Rakuten was offering an additional 12% cashback. That might have come to even less than $1200 depending on the configuration.

In fact, here's a screenshot of one configuration I put together. This is not the base, it has upgraded CPU and I've added the 4K IPS panel, so it's not directly comparable. It came to $1448. Minus the 12% Rakuten discount and 2% cashback on my credit card, that's $1245. Not far off $1200, and it includes a few extra unnecessary upgrades.

[added spec list:
i7-9750
8GB RAM
256GB SSD PCIe
4K, 500nit non-touch
GTX 1650 MaxQ 4GB
comes to $1448]

Right, so $1400-ish is actually the lowest its been. The Rakuten cash back is problematic and many shoppers don't deal with this middle man. Delays in getting your product, convoluted system of getting cash back, problems along the way. A lot of people avoid Rakuten due to having been bit by a variety of problems, I am one of them. I have found their cash back offers are not worth the trouble. Maybe for a big ticket item it will work out for you, but I've had problems with enough smaller items that fighting for getting what they have advertised is just not worth dealing with them any longer.

Also, if you're doing things like counting your 2% cash back on your CC, you should do that for Apple too. I don't know this for 100% certain, but can't you buy a MacBook Pro on the education store using the Apple Card with the cash back, effectively get the $2499 version for $2067....

Why your never-ending skepticism? Why are you so keen to paint me as an ignorant fool? Why are you defending the MBP 16" in such an emotional and over-the-top way? Would it really hurt that much if it turned out Apple and its laptops were not as amazing as you had been led to believe? Would it be so hard to realize that other manufacturers make equally good, if not superior, and vastly cheaper, laptops?

Uh, I don't believe what some random dude says on the internet without some evidence.... sorry. As for the rest, I've criticized aspects of Apple's MacBook Pro (it TB) and given the Lenovo credit where credit is due. But no, the Lenovo X1 extreme Gen 2 still isn't the build quality of the MacBook Pro. Its a great machine, one of my employees requested one and has been using for a few months now. Its worked out great, but I don't like it as much as the Mac, and it still has windows....

Of course it's always a question of time vs money. It's a personal choice. However, in my experience, upgrading SSD and RAM is trivial. It only takes a few minutes, and you don't have to "hope it holds together", it just works.

It does until it doesn't, and you just haven't run into an "it just doesn't" moment yet. I have. It was on a self built machine and it took a lot of back and forth to convince the motherboard manufacturer that was the problem, and not someone else's ram, CPU or hard drive. Its easy to put that in there, install an OS, etc. But if you run into a problem, especially if you sell your included components, support is going to get complicated, count on it.

Saving almost $2K for a few minutes work is a no brainer, in my opinion.

You aren't saving $2K, no way, no how. You're saving a max of $500 on lower end configs. Maybe on something like the 64GB, 4TB models you can crank that number up due to some pretty insane BTO prices, but for more modestly spec-ed machines, no way. That's laughable. I just got the 2.4 i9, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 5300M 4G model for like $3400. You're telling me you can get the same computer for around $1400? Again laughable. You just configured the Lenovo X1 extreme gen 2 to much lower specs prior to upgrades at that. Throw on like $600 for the CPU upgrade (X1 extreme Gen 2 doesn't offer the 2.4 i9, BTW), $250 for the RAM, $350 for the SSD and the matching config is running you like $2600. Catch a good sale on those things, include the CPU upgrade, and maybe you're at $2400. That's optimistically a $1000 difference.

That's equivalent to earning $3-4K before you pay your taxes. If I could make that money every minute of the year, it's equivalent to a salary of tens of millions of dollars. But perhaps you are a "Pro" in Apple parlance, and you can make more than that doing your day job, so it's not worth your time.

Hmm, that's highly flawed. First, if this computer is used to make money, its a business expense, and thus likely a write off for someone, either your employer or you yourself. But anyway, lets just pretend you're saving $1000 pre-tax money. And lets pretend you earn a good bit of money (as a 33-50 top marginal rate you're using would indicate), so you earn say $150K/year. That works out to around $75/hour. That's 13 hours worth of money you are saving by having a Lenovo over a MacBook Pro. If the computer lasts 3 years and you uses it basically every hour you work, that's .2% of 3 work-years of time. If the fully supported Mac saves you that amount of time, compared to the other machine, including the time spent upgrading it and the risk of dealing with lesser support, then you should get the Mac. You can't stop your cost-benefit comparison the day you sit down with the computer after you've upgraded it. And if that RAM you installed fails, how many days do you think your machine is down compared to if the same thing happens to my Apple? I walk into an apple store, they see the problem and maybe hand me cloned machine that day. It might not be the same spec, but it will be something to get me through until my fixed machine or another one comes in. In your case, you're sending error reports to Lenovo, Crucial and Samsung, calling them begging for replacement parts. If the initial install took say 3 hours (remember you have to install the OS, its not just a simple drop in and its done), you have about 10 hours on that saved time clock, or 1.25 days. How fast is that RAM showing up again? I'd bet you'd be lucky to get it within a week of the first crash. If that risk is worth it to you, fine. It depends on your risk tolerance. But lets not pretend the differences stop at the sticker price once you've matched spec.

 

[Viamusic10000]

I did not "have to grab a Black Friday deal" as you so graciously put it. Even without the Black Friday deals, the Lenovo laptops are still vastly cheaper. You can still get 40-50% off at most times of year. The purpose of quoting the Black Friday deal is to support the $1200 price assertion I made in an earlier post. Again, please read the entire thread of dialog before you jump in.

And where are Apple's Black Friday deals? Another reason I'm returning my MBP 16" is because since purchasing it, Apple has started offering 6% cash back via the Apple Card, and according to another thread here, Apple is mostly not extending that discount to customers who purchased their laptops before the cash back deal was offered but who are still within their return window. Even if I was considering keeping the laptop, I would be returning it and repurchasing it, because 6% of $4K is quite a lot of cash.

I don't have to prove anything to you, whether it did or did not happen is a matter of historical fact, and the reality of the matter does not depend on whether I can find the time to send you a link or not.

But since you ask, at the time there was a 50% Black Friday sale, and Rakuten was offering an additional 12% cashback. That might have come to even less than $1200 depending on the configuration.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/e34nac
In fact, here's a screenshot of one configuration I put together. This is not the base, it has upgraded CPU and I've added the 4K IPS panel, so it's not directly comparable. It came to $1448. Minus the 12% Rakuten discount and 2% cashback on my credit card, that's $1245. Not far off $1200, and it includes a few extra unnecessary upgrades.

View attachment 883783

Why your never-ending skepticism? Why are you so keen to paint me as an ignorant fool? Why are you defending the MBP 16" in such an emotional and over-the-top way? Would it really hurt that much if it turned out Apple and its laptops were not as amazing as you had been led to believe? Would it be so hard to realize that other manufacturers make equally good, if not superior, and vastly cheaper, laptops?
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Of course it's always a question of time vs money. It's a personal choice. However, in my experience, upgrading SSD and RAM is trivial. It only takes a few minutes, and you don't have to "hope it holds together", it just works. It's just not that difficult. Saving almost $2K for a few minutes work is a no brainer, in my opinion. That's equivalent to earning $3-4K before you pay your taxes. If I could make that money every minute of the year, it's equivalent to a salary of tens of millions of dollars. But perhaps you are a "Pro" in Apple parlance, and you can make more than that doing your day job, so it's not worth your time.

Not at most retail stores I've checked. Comparatively specced Thinkpad X1 at best buy canada is almost 5 grand without sale https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/produc...l-core-i7-8850h-2-60ghz-9mb-15-6-192/12992834. On amazon it's cheaper than the mac by a fair bit for better specs but still nowhere near $1400. Most of the sales I'm finding for Lenovo X1 are lik $700-800 dollars CAD at most. Macbooks are expensive but the disparity between specs is no where near what you say.

 

[wallysb01]

I did not "have to grab a Black Friday deal" as you so graciously put it. Even without the Black Friday deals, the Lenovo laptops are still vastly cheaper. You can still get 40-50% off at most times of year. The purpose of quoting the Black Friday deal is to support the $1200 price assertion I made in an earlier post. Again, please read the entire thread of dialog before you jump in.

That same basic spec is $1737 from Lenovo right now. I don't see any great deals at the moment. You can pretty frequently get 20-30% deals, not 40-50%.

And where are Apple's Black Friday deals? Another reason I'm returning my MBP 16" is because since purchasing it, Apple has started offering 6% cash back via the Apple Card, and according to another thread here, Apple is mostly not extending that discount to customers who purchased their laptops before the cash back deal was offered but who are still within their return window. Even if I was considering keeping the laptop, I would be returning it and repurchasing it, because 6% of $4K is quite a lot of cash.

And you should save that 6%, but Apple Black Friday deals are always a bit muted compared to other makes. Their demands is likely more inelastic than the plethora of plastic computer makers out there.

 

[Jl006p]

Thanks for ruining this thread. I know you can build a superior pc for $5 but that wasn't the point.

I have a rig myself with a 2080 super. Can't use Final Cut Pro on it. Do people still make hackintosh?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Thanks for ruining this thread. I know you can build a superior pc for $5 but that wasn't the point.

I have a rig myself with a 2080 super. Can't use Final Cut Pro on it. Do people still make hackintosh?

Reading this on my Hack in fact

 

[AustinIllini]

Thanks for ruining this thread. I know you can build a superior pc for $5 but that wasn't the point.

I have a rig myself with a 2080 super. Can't use Final Cut Pro on it. Do people still make hackintosh?

I get your point, but the "Superior pc" is laughable. It runs windows. it's like putting a boat anchor on a Ferrari. At the end of the day, the thing still runs Windows and Windows isn't very good.

 

[Nikita Zelenyuk]

So am I understand correctly, if I bought my MacBook Pro 16 in Singapore and now Im currently in Dubai. I can't return it ?

 

[Jl006p]

I get your point, but the "Superior pc" is laughable. It runs windows. it's like putting a boat anchor on a Ferrari. At the end of the day, the thing still runs Windows and Windows isn't very good.

Oh I was just being sarcastic. That's how people come off when talking about building pcs.

I have until January to return this. Part of me is telling me to hold onto it but the other part of me is pissed off on how much money I spent just to get popping speakers and a flickering display when using external monitor.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Last three personal PC's I've built have had parts go out which leave me stranded. My current 2900x build had the Corsair RAM fail and now I have to wait for Corsair to reply. It's been three days since I last heard from them. If this was Apple chat, I would have had a new laptop by now. Then I have to wait for them to send it to me. This has never happened with ANY of my Apple products.

I had multiple issues with my 2014 MacBook Pro Apple sent me a brand new laptop three years later. It was great.

I will GLADLY pay the 'Apple Tax' in order to be able to have peace of mind. Good customer service and a quick turnaround are very important to me. I need to run a business. It's worth it to me.

The 16" Macbook Pro has been lauded by every creator that has used it. How are so many people not satisfied with it when professionals that will be maxing out the laptops performance absolutely love it?

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Looking forward to my 16" Macbook Pro to be honest. Sold my 13" and 15" for this because I think it'll be the perfect do it all laptop.

 

[Sanpete]

So am I understand correctly, if I bought my MacBook Pro 16 in Singapore and now Im currently in Dubai. I can't return it ?

Check with the nearest Apple Store.

 

[wallysb01]

Last three personal PC's I've built have had parts go out which leave me stranded. My current 2900x build had the Corsair RAM fail and now I have to wait for Corsair to reply. It's been three days since I last heard from them. If this was Apple chat, I would have had a new laptop by now. Then I have to wait for them to send it to me. This has never happened with ANY of my Apple products.

I had multiple issues with my 2014 MacBook Pro Apple sent me a brand new laptop three years later. It was great.

I will GLADLY pay the 'Apple Tax' in order to be able to have peace of mind. Good customer service and a quick turnaround are very important to me. I need to run a business. It's worth it to me.

The 16" Macbook Pro has been lauded by every creator that has used it. How are so many people not satisfied with it when professionals that will be maxing out the laptops performance absolutely love it?

did you mean 3 hours later?

 

[49erRedGold]

Oh I was just being sarcastic. That's how people come off when talking about building pcs.

I have until January to return this. Part of me is telling me to hold onto it but the other part of me is pissed off on how much money I spent just to get popping speakers and a flickering display when using external monitor.

Just return it ASAP before something happens. Milking the return policy until the last day is very risky. You could spill something on it, break the screen, scratch the machine and Apple won't take it back. There are plenty of computers on the market you can buy to get your work done. Return it.

 

[Hieveryone]

My 16" works pretty good except sometimes the Touch Bar "freezes" up. Like if I tap it won't respond. It's just stuck.

But that's not enough reason for me to return it. It doesn't happen often and a restart fixes it. It doesn't bother me.

The yellow screen is not acceptable to me. It looks like a page from an old, weathered book.

 

[Velin]

This entire discussion is a mess.

 

[maflynn]

My 16" works pretty good except sometimes the Touch Bar "freezes" up. Like if I tap it won't respond. It's just stuck.

While not common, I have seen that issue raised on other touchbar equipped MBPs