Carrier Should I ignore the PWM eye strain/headache issues with iPad Pro 12.9" M2 and just buy it?

[rui no onna]

iPad Pro 12.9” never can get LCD again at this point and most people would dismiss your issue entirely. Your only bet is Apple releasing a 240hz or 360hz OLED or something To mitigate the issue.
It’s a shame apple cares nothing about people with PWM sensitivities.

If the 19 KHz (19,000 Hz) Mini-LED already causes PWM-related eyestrain/headaches, I don't see how 240-360 Hz OLED would work any better.

 

[iManic]

The iPad Pro 11" is great, but I need a 12.9" reading/annotating textbook pdfs

So i'm not sure what your question is here? You have 2 options. Take the safe bet and get the A12Z iPad pro. Or test out the new one and return if it bothers you. You don't need to go anywhere in person. Wait until after Nov 1st then apples holiday return policy takes effect. You will have over 2 months to test it out and still return it. With the holiday policy you have until Jan 8th to initiate a return and then another 2 weeks to ship it out.

Just make sure to order it directly from Apple. Apple makes returning products easier than any other company I have seen. Just keep the original box (both interior and exterior box) attach a shipping label that you print at home and either drop it off at a shipping store or schedule them to pick it up at your house.

 

[kajdncv]

So i'm not sure what your question is here? You have 2 options. Take the safe bet and get the A12Z iPad pro. Or test out the new one and return if it bothers you. You don't need to go anywhere in person. Wait until after Nov 1st then apples holiday return policy takes effect. You will have over 2 months to test it out and still return it. With the holiday policy you have until Jan 8th to initiate a return and then another 2 weeks to ship it out.

Just make sure to order it directly from Apple. Apple makes returning products easier than any other company I have seen. Just keep the original box (both interior and exterior box) attach a shipping label that you print at home and either drop it off at a shipping store or schedule them to pick it up at your house.

I just want to settle my mind from purchase anxiety, but I guess there's no choice but to try it out. Thanks for letting me know I could schedule a pickup for return.

 

[iManic]

I just want to settle my mind from purchase anxiety, but I guess there's no choice but to try it out. Thanks for letting me know I could schedule a pickup for return.

No problem! I have used the pick-up option many times post COVID. I Understand the purchase anxiety but you're always going to wonder if the M2 version was the better choice if you don't test it out. Only thing worse than purchase anxiety is FOMO(Fear Of Missing Out). I don't see any negatives with testing it out and this is the best time of the year to do so since you get 2+ months instead of 2 weeks.

 

[Shirasaki]

If the 19 KHz (19,000 Hz) Mini-LED already causes PWM-related eyestrain/headaches, I don't see how 240-360 Hz OLED would work any better.

Wait what? Somebody already built 19KHz(!) Mini-LED display? And STILL causes eyestrain?
Man, sucks to be the guy who cannot use more modern electronic devices and shame on Apple to not providing any solution whatsoever.
Idk if there would be a sweet-spot on the refresh rate or eyestrain would just happen regardless, as long as the screen is built in some form of LED.

 

[rui no onna]

Wait what? Somebody already built 19KHz(!) Mini-LED display? And STILL causes eyestrain?
Man, sucks to be the guy who cannot use more modern electronic devices and shame on Apple to not providing any solution whatsoever.
Idk if there would be a sweet-spot on the refresh rate or eyestrain would just happen regardless, as long as the screen is built in some form of LED.

The PWM is at 19 KHz. The display itself is at 120 Hz.

 

[kajdncv]

No problem! I have used the pick-up option many times post COVID. I Understand the purchase anxiety but you're always going to wonder if the M2 version was the better choice if you don't test it out. Only thing worse than purchase anxiety is FOMO(Fear Of Missing Out). I don't see any negatives with testing it out and this is the best time of the year to do so since you get 2+ months instead of 2 weeks.

I intend to buy a Macbook Pro 14" (14880 Hz PWM) and an iPad Pro 12.9". Would you suggest to buy both at once or only buy the iPad Pro 12.9" M2 for testing since it has a higher PWM of 19190 Hz? If the mini-LED screen does cause eye strain/headaches, I will buy the Macbook Air M2 and iPad Pro 12.9" 2020 instead.

 

[GlenK]

I read somewhere that the new 11" doesn't use PWM. Can't remember where I read it..

 

[supermars]

I read somewhere that the new 11" doesn't use PWM. Can't remember where I read it..

It's here (you can change the language) :

2021 Apple L'iPad Pro M1 de 12,9 pouces avec écran mini LED présente des caractéristiques d'affichage médiocres, notamment un PWM et des temps de réponse réduits

Nous avons testé le PWM et les temps de réponse de l'écran de notre iPad Pro 2021 de 12,9 pouces avec M1 et avons constaté que le passage de Apple à la technologie des mini LED cette année présente quelques inconvénients. L'iPad Pro 2021 de 12,9 pouces présente non seulement un PWM inférieur à...

www.notebookcheck.biz

 

[teh_hunterer]

I intend to buy a Macbook Pro 14" (14880 Hz PWM) and an iPad Pro 12.9". Would you suggest to buy both at once or only buy the iPad Pro 12.9" M2 for testing since it has a higher PWM of 19190 Hz? If the mini-LED screen does cause eye strain/headaches, I will buy the Macbook Air M2 and iPad Pro 12.9" 2020 instead.

I have a 14" MacBook Pro and bought a 12.9" iPad. As nice as the huge iPad is, ultimately there was just no point owning both devices. The 12.9" is so big that it's no more convenient than a laptop is. That is to say, anything I would use the 12.9" iPad for, I may as well get out the 14" MacBook and use that instead, because it's a better and bigger display. So I returned it.

I now use an 11" iPad Pro and the 14" MacBook Pro.

 

[plantsman]

If it helps any I just got a new 2021 12.9" iPad and it is giving me headaches and killing my eyes. I experienced this many years ago when I first got an iPad 4 the first with a Retina screen. I had to go to a black background, check reduce transparency, increase contrast and reduce white point. It took a long to get use to it, but I did. I also had trouble with the iPad Pro 11", but I used it for short periods at a time, and got used to it. Not guaranteed, but I'm going to try it with the 12.9. I got it to work in tandem with my Mac mini.

 

[jm31828]

I had an AMOLED Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e. The first time I witnessed the effect of PWM. I could literally see the screen flashing and it hurt my eyes. It operated at very low of 245.1 Hz at max brightness.
Next I got M1 iPad Pro. Using it for a year with no problems. It has a consistent PWM of 19 190 Hz (or 19 kHz) across various levels of brightness.
Also have an OLED iPhone 13 Pro. PWM of 510 Hz. Not very high, you’d think, but I experienced zero problems.

M2 XDR PWM is unknown yet, I think, but it should be similar to 2021 XDR. Truth is everyone’s eyes are different so you have to try it yourself, but I’d say the chances you won’t have any problems with it are good.

...And to clarify for the others on this thread, the 12.9" M1 and M2 have PWM- but the 11" on both of those does NOT have PWM, that was verified in the reviews by Notebookcheck.

 

[GlenK]

...And to clarify for the others on this thread, the 12.9" M1 and M2 have PWM- but the 11" on both of those does NOT have PWM, that was verified in the reviews by Notebookcheck.

Can confirm that for me. Got the 12.9 M2 and had to send it back. Headache within minutes that just continued to get worse. Returned it and ordered the 11 M2 and no issues as all!

 

[Zest28]

I had an AMOLED Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e. The first time I witnessed the effect of PWM. I could literally see the screen flashing and it hurt my eyes. It operated at very low of 245.1 Hz at max brightness.
Next I got M1 iPad Pro. Using it for a year with no problems. It has a consistent PWM of 19 190 Hz (or 19 kHz) across various levels of brightness.
Also have an OLED iPhone 13 Pro. PWM of 510 Hz. Not very high, you’d think, but I experienced zero problems.

M2 XDR PWM is unknown yet, I think, but it should be similar to 2021 XDR. Truth is everyone’s eyes are different so you have to try it yourself, but I’d say the chances you won’t have any problems with it are good.

If the PWM is 20khz like what you said, then there should no issues at all. That is insanely high.

PWM related issues only happens at low frequencies.

In any case, people can just order it from Apple and try it out for 14-days and return it if they don’t like it.

 

[Zest28]

I just want to settle my mind from purchase anxiety, but I guess there's no choice but to try it out. Thanks for letting me know I could schedule a pickup for return.

Indeed. Just buy it and return it if it causes problems. That is the only way to know.

But in any case just to be safe, go with the 11” model if that one is free of flicker like some people claimed.

 

[secretk]

I found a couple threads discussing the PWM on the Pro displays. Since I have high myopia and astigmatism, I'm worried that it would also give me eye strain and headaches.

I have highish myopia (around 6 but it continues to raise) and high astigmatism and I do not suffer from PWM issues to my knowledge. I have iPhone 12 Pro and have no issues. I can't tell you about the iPad as I own 11 inch iPad with LCD.

Nevertheless I agree with the rest - you need to test it yourself. You can't rely on my experience or anyone else for that matter.

 

[jm31828]

Do we know if the XDR display on the 12.9" iPad Pro (m1 or m2) are true 10 bit displays, so there wouldn't be any sort of temporal dithering?
I know Notebookcheck did their test and it seems that there is no dithering on the M2, but I am of course always concerned there is something they missed.

And, if I don't have issues with the much lower frequency PWM on my iPhone 13 Mini, would that mean I would most likely not be affected by the really high frequency PWM on the M2 12.9"?

Interestingly I looked at the Air 5th generation and the 11" Pro M2 at the store last night, and no headaches or eye strain per se, but they both gave my eyes a mild dry/burning sensation and even made them water just a bit. I did not have that issue when looking at the 10th gen regular iPad. I know the 10th gen was proven by Notebookcheck to have no PWM and no temporal dithering..... but there is no word about temporal dithering on their site about the Air 5 or the 11" Pro from what I can find- so I assume it is indeed temporal dithering on both of those?

I am curious, given that I use an OLED phone with PWM that doesn't bother me- and that I do seem to be affected by temporal dithering- if the 12.9" M2 Pro might work for me, if it truly has no temporal dithering and the really high frequency PWM.

 

[brig2221]

As a big time sufferer of PWM (will be rocking my iPhone 11 like forever), I thought it was specific to OLED panels.

I have a MBP 14” and a 12.9” M1 IPP, and neither bother my eyes at all. Am I incorrect that PWM is specific to OLED?

Not suggesting OP doesn’t have issues with the M2 Air, it’s just that I think it wouldn’t be PWM related given it uses Mini LED.

 

[Zest28]

As a big time sufferer of PWM (will be rocking my iPhone 11 like forever), I thought it was specific to OLED panels.

I have a MBP 14” and a 12.9” M1 IPP, and neither bother my eyes at all. Am I incorrect that PWM is specific to OLED?

Not suggesting OP doesn’t have issues with the M2 Air, it’s just that I think it wouldn’t be PWM related given it uses Mini LED.

It has nothing to do with screen technology.

For example, the LG Ultrafine 5K has PWM while the Apple Studio Display doesn't have it, while both being nearly identical IPS displays.

It's up to the company what is being used in the end and how.

It's not really surprising that the 14" MBP and M1 iPad Pro doesn't trigger your PWM problems as the frequency on both is very high.

 

[brig2221]

It has nothing to do with screen technology.

For example, the LG Ultrafine 5K has PWM while the Apple Studio Display doesn't have it, while both being nearly identical IPS displays.

It's up to the company what is being used in the end and how.

It's not really surprising that the 14" MBP and M1 iPad Pro doesn't trigger your PWM problems as the frequency on both is very high.

I thought it was specific to OLED. Chalk this up to you learn something new every day!

 

[CooperBox]

I used to believe I had social phobia too, until I realise how powerful your mind could jam you from functioning properly and ruin everything you love. -_-

Now things are definitely going better for me.

I once went to a social anxiety convention. No one turned up.........!