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0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
Triggers don't feel right on the PS3, way too easy to break. There isn't a PS3 demo unit around here with working shoulder buttons.
Left analogue stick still in the wrong place. Both feel too "light", they're lighter than the Wii's Classic Controller, which is a very bad thing.
Uncomfy as hell. Normally controllers get comfier as they evolve down the line.
Dpad missing the "middle" bit.
Too light, no rumble. Honestly, if anyone here hasn't held a PS3 controller it's about the same as a Classic Controller. Yea. That bad.
 

asxtb

macrumors 6502
Sep 1, 2005
322
0
I'm not sure if the PS3 have a IR port but I guess they did that so that they can make some money of the remote.
Nope. No IR, all bluetooth.

Triggers don't feel right on the PS3, way too easy to break. There isn't a PS3 demo unit around here with working shoulder buttons.
Left analogue stick still in the wrong place. Both feel too "light", they're lighter than the Wii's Classic Controller, which is a very bad thing.
Uncomfy as hell. Normally controllers get comfier as they evolve down the line.
Dpad missing the "middle" bit.
Too light, no rumble. Honestly, if anyone here hasn't held a PS3 controller it's about the same as a Classic Controller. Yea. That bad.
Again, all subjective. I think the PS3 controllers are very comfortable.
I love your comment about controllers getting comfier as they evolve. It's a shame Nintendo hasn't had the same controller in 2 different systems for any evolution to occur. A new system, a brand new controller style to learn.

I will give you the 'no rumble.' But honestly I haven't missed it so it's a non-issue for me.
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,252
8
Washington D.C
$100 extra for a game you may not want and an extra 20 Gig HD space?

Come on Sony, you can do better than that...

Its decent...the PS3 80Gb isn't worth it IMO, not for most people. I don't really want the extra 20Gbs, and Motorstorm, while good, can be bought with the 60Gb PS3.

Still nice to see the 60Gb PS3 cheaper, but the difference between the 80Gb and 60GB isn't worth 100USD, unless you plan on using the PS3 as a media center.
 

arnette

macrumors 6502
Nov 22, 2002
313
105
Manhattan Beach
people would be all over the system if it had a better game library. there aren't enough good games and not enough good exclusives to warrant its price. dropping the price $100 isn't going to change sony's poor showing in the next-gen console wars. come on, sony, it's about the software.

So true. I like 360's games with Halo 3, GTA4, and a few others but concerned about returns/build quality with buzzing fans and noisy disc drives. PS3 looks like nicer hardware but they don't have any games I'm interested in! Maybe E3 will change everything around but I doubt it.

I'll probably end up waiting for the new internal design of the 360 to start shipping (they've gotta revamp it for the 90nm right?) and get one then. Even if it's around Christmastime.
 

gloss

macrumors 601
May 9, 2006
4,811
0
around/about
Sony (like many other companies, including Nintendo and Microsoft) has a proven track record of denying price drops and feature changes and then introducing them anyway. If they were to CONFIRM a price drop a week or two early, everyone who would otherwise have purchased the system at full price would wait, causing Sony to lose even more money on those sales.

It's just business.
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
I love your comment about controllers getting comfier as they evolve. It's a shame Nintendo hasn't had the same controller in 2 different systems for any evolution to occur. A new system, a brand new controller style to learn.

They move with the times. NES and SNES were 2D, so the Dpad was king. N64 brought 3D and thus needed a proper 3D controller to accomodate that (I'm surprised Sony didn't bring us an analogue stick right off the bat...). Gamecube was a much more traditional shaped pad to cope with the bigger habit of porting games, 3D is in so the analogue stick is placed where the thumb goes. Along comes motion sensing games so a new style of controller is built to accomodate the new style of game playing.

There's a quote somewhere from Shigsy where he talks about "building hardware around an idea". Rather than just adapting games that surpass current hardware.

Props to MS for bringing us the best traditional controller. Using them on my 360 and PC.

Edit: I'm interested to see Nintendo and Microsofts reaction to the price drop. Since the Wii is making a profit on hardware they could drop the price without sacrificing much, and MS love to throw money around.
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,152
460
Hm, it's official now. Interesting.

I wonder if Sony is applying the same "improvements" as the European models to get the price down (you'll recall they took the PS2 processor out of the European PS3's and made it use emulation instead, which reduced classic game compatability).

Honestly, it's not horribly priced now. Consider that Microsoft charges $100 for WiFi; If I wanted an XBox 360 with WiFi, it would cost me $500 ($400 for Premium, $100 for WiFi). Same price as a PS3, but the PS3 also has a Blu-ray player (which are normally around $500 anyway) and 40 GB more hard drive space and HDMI and an SD/CF card reader and bluetooth and you can install Linux!


Actually, this makes the PS3 quite competitive compared to the 360. In fact, it makes it cheaper. A $500 PS3 configuration gives you WAY more than a $500 XBox 360 configuration (assuming Premium w/WiFi), and if you compare the 360 Elite to the PS3, the Elite has the bigger hard drive but the PS3 has WiFi, Blu-ray, Bluetooth, and is overall a way better deal.

Unfortunately for Sony, most people look at the up-front cost and don't add up the cost of adding WiFi and the extras. And more importantly, Sony simply doesn't have the GAMES to get people to come over. If both systems had an equal game library I'd buy the PS3 over the 360 because of backwards compatability, the ability to upscale PS2 games, Blu-ray, Playstation Home, bigger hard drive, Linux, WiFi, etc, etc.

But the 360 just has better games right now.


I'm very glad I waited. We'll see what happens.
 

Sky Blue

Guest
Original poster
Jan 8, 2005
6,856
11
I'm interested to see Nintendo and Microsofts reaction to the price drop. Since the Wii is making a profit on hardware they could drop the price without sacrificing much, and MS love to throw money around.

I really can't see Nintendo dropping the price this year, the Wii is still flying off the shelves.

Actually, this makes the PS3 quite competitive compared to the 360. In fact, it makes it cheaper. A $500 PS3 configuration gives you WAY more than a $500 XBox 360 configuration (assuming Premium w/WiFi), and if you compare the 360 Elite to the PS3, the Elite has the bigger hard drive but the PS3 has WiFi, Blu-ray, Bluetooth, and is overall a way better deal.

yeah, the PS3 is looking nice now, another $100 and I'm in!
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,152
460
I really can't see Nintendo dropping the price this year, the Wii is still flying off the shelves.



yeah, the PS3 is looking nice now, another $100 and I'm in!

I'd be in already, if they would just back it up with some good software!

As for Nintendo...Nintendo can probably drop the price already. But with it being sold out everywhere, still, I doubt Nintendo would; you lower price to raise demand, but the demand is already more than they can handle.

Unless Microsoft were to undercut them. Nintendo has to make sure they remain the lowest-priced system. If the XBox 360 dropped the Core price to $250 I think Nintendo would drop the price of the Wii too to keep it lower.
 

ChrisK018

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2005
172
0
Washington, DC
I used to work at a video store when the PS 1 and Nintendo 64 came out. When they weren't rented out I would take them home. When I saw FFVII for the first time it broke my will. I bought the PS1 within the week.

Glad for the price drop, but I want to see some game for the PS3 that 'forces' me to buy it.
 

Haoshiro

macrumors 68000
Feb 9, 2006
1,894
6
USA, OR
So who thinks we might see some new SKUs for 360 at E3?

I'd say, keep the same price points... but have the Premium be the new $299 model, and the Elite become the $399 model.

And wishful thinking: toss in built-in WiFi :)
 

Haoshiro

macrumors 68000
Feb 9, 2006
1,894
6
USA, OR
Toss more in than that...toss in a redesign so MS can get past the bad image. It would be funny seeing P.Moore coming onstage with a redesign tattoo on his arm:)

I think the design of the chasis is fine, plus all the face plates... they won't be ditching the design ever, imo.

All I want is built-in WiFi... and I don't even need that, heh. My 360 has been great.
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
Built in WiFi and a price drop from £270 to £199 for the Premium would be absolutely killer here. People will be saying "PS what?" and thinking twice about a Wii (as it would only be £20 less.)

But as folk have said. I can't imagine a 360 price cut any time soon. It's a very sucessful traditional console.

One things for sure. There is no need for a Core system any more, cept for those replacing Premium models and who have a HDD already.
 

danny_w

macrumors 601
Mar 8, 2005
4,467
300
Cumming, GA
Sony (like many other companies, including Nintendo and Microsoft) has a proven track record of denying price drops and feature changes and then introducing them anyway. If they were to CONFIRM a price drop a week or two early, everyone who would otherwise have purchased the system at full price would wait, causing Sony to lose even more money on those sales.

It's just business.
But there would be no reason to wait. Most every store that I know of has a price match guarantee, so even if you did buy it last week you will still get the price drop, so it really makes no difference.
 

mosx

macrumors 65816
Mar 3, 2007
1,465
3
Honestly, it's not horribly priced now. Consider that Microsoft charges $100 for WiFi; If I wanted an XBox 360 with WiFi, it would cost me $500 ($400 for Premium, $100 for WiFi).

I don't see why people make such a big deal out of wifi with gaming.

I was gaming for years on a PC before getting my Mac and wireless was always too unstable and too slow for action games of any kind.

Theres too many variables that affect that quality of a wireless signal. The PS3 (and Xbox360) are stuck with 802.11g. Just a single wall between the router and will cut the connection speed down significantly. Then theres also interference problems. Interference from other electronics, the TV the console is connected to, any other components sitting in the general area, cordless phones, microwaves, cellphones, etc.

Theres a thousand things that can affect the signal quality and lead to packet loss or much higher latency.

I know my ping times always dropped by about half when I used a wired connection versus wireless. Sometimes my wireless connection would give me ping times that made me wonder if I was still using a dialup modem.

Want to stream high definition video over 802.11g? Good luck! Even though it has a claimed throughput of 54Mbps, the real world performance is FAR less than that. You will be extremely lucky if you can play an HD video without any dropped frames or pauses.

Even streaming a DVD video at around 5Mbps over 802.11g can result in dropped frames and pauses if theres a wall or two in between the router and the console.

802.11g is perfectly fine for web browsing and chatting, maybe downloading a song or two from iTunes.

But for anything that involves the "need for speed" so to speak, 802.11g fails miserably.

So the fact that the Xbox360 has no wireless is not a bad thing at all.

but the PS3 also has a Blu-ray player (which are normally around $500 anyway)

Which is of no use to many people. Unlike the transition from VHS to DVD, where most people only had a very small number of VHS tapes due to rental pricing, people actually own libraries of DVDs. There are countless people out there like me who have spent thousands of dollars on building a DVD library. Even those with a small library, like 20-30 movies, are not about to just dump their investment and move on to a new format. There are people out there, myself included, who own more DVDs than there are blu-ray discs available. An upscaling DVD player is a much better investment than a blu-ray player because it will breathe new life into all of your "old" discs and it will bring those DVDs up to almost the same quality as blu-ray.

Realistically, why should anybody go and rebuy a movie on HD-DVD or blu-ray when it will only be about 20% better, max, than that same movie on a much cheaper upscaling DVD player?

40 GB more hard drive space

Which is useful for what? Both systems support USB mass storage, and the Xbox360 will even play your music directly off your iPod WHILE you play games! Any game! Not just some.


Do some google searching and you'll quickly find out that the VGA out on the Xbox360, thanks to recent updates, beats the HDMI out on the PS3 and the Xbox360 Elite ;)

SD/CF card reader

And how is this useful? How many times will you, or anybody you know, say "HEY! I have some great pictures I just took on my camera! let me pull out the memory card and put in the PS3 so we can look!"? How often will that happen? And, again, both systems support USB mass storage. 4GB flash drives are cheaper than 4GB SD and CF cards. The Xbox360 will also hook up to any digital camera and display the pics on the TV screen. So again, how is the memory card reader useful?

bluetooth

For headsets. The vast majority of bluetooth mice and keyboards do not work with the PS3 and the games have no keyboard and mouse support anyway. So this is good only for headsets. But then you have the issues of having to pair with the headsets, sometimes every time you want to use the headset. Thats more trouble than its worth. Especially when the Xbox360 has a neat little headset that connects directly to the controller.

you can install Linux!

And do what with it exactly? For multimedia, the PS3's built in UI offers more functionality than Linux.

Are you going to run desktop applications on your PS3? Don't forget that the PS3 only has 256MB of main system memory (plus 256MB of video memory). Good luck even running OpenOffice along with a decent window manager like Gnome or KDE.

A $500 PS3 configuration gives you WAY more than a $500 XBox 360 configuration (assuming Premium w/WiFi), and if you compare the 360 Elite to the PS3, the Elite has the bigger hard drive but the PS3 has WiFi, Blu-ray, Bluetooth, and is overall a way better deal.

Again, blu-ray means nothing. The games would be exactly the same on DVD-9. Bluetooth is only good for headsets and causes more headaches for people than its worth, and wifi is not something you want to use for gaming or streaming media.

A $399 or $479 Xbox360 gets you a lot more out of the box.

The $399 Xbox360 comes with a headset, component cable, and ethernet cable. The $479 Xbox360 throws in an HDMI cable along with the other accessories. The PS3 comes with what? RCA cables so I can hook it up to my 20 year old TV okay?

Unfortunately for Sony, most people look at the up-front cost and don't add up the cost of adding WiFi and the extras.

Such as having to buy component or HDMI cables for the PS3, a headset for the PS3 and other things?

The Xbox360 comes with everything you need out of the box to get up and playing games in HD immediately. The PS3 requires you to buy extra cables and accessories.

You also mention playing PS2 games later in your post. You even have to buy an adapter for that on the PS3 to get your memory card saves going.

backwards compatability

Something the Xbox360 has as well. The vast majority of the original Xbox library is up and running now.

And honestly, how long have you been playing videogames? My first system was an original Atari. I owned NIntendo systems all the way up to the N64, and I still have my original Playstation.

Do you know how often I go back and play old games? Almost never. When the PS2 came out, I had no reason to go back and play say... Spyro again when I could play Ratchet and Clank. And now with the Xbox360, why would I want to go back and play Gran Turismo 3 when I could play Forza 2?

the ability to upscale PS2 games

Something the Xbox360 has had ever since release. Oh and the Xbox360 can even upscale its own games. For example, a 720p game can be upscaled to 1080i if you only have a 1080i TV. Let me know when the PS3 can finally do that ;)


Blu-ray and HD-DVD are the current SACD and DVD-Audio and both are heading down the same path that SACD and DVD-Audio did. People are not going to up and replace their DVD libraries, especially not those who have spent thousands of dollars building their library. Blu-ray doesn't offer the jump in quality over upscaled DVD that DVD did over VHS, and unlike the VHS days, people actually have movie libraries now.

Playstation Home

Also known as "microtransaction hell". Let's not forget that, in a recent interview, higher ups from Sony made it VERY clear that the Playstation Network will not always be free and that many things in Playstation Home will require microtransactions to use.

bigger hard drive

Bigger than 120GB?

The hard drive size is pretty irrelevant considering that both support USB mass storage. The Xbox360 makes it super easy to stream HD media over wired network from a Mac or Windows system. The Xbox360 can play all of my music off of my iPod while I play any game. Why would I need a few more gigabytes?


Again, useless. The PS3 offers more multimedia capabilities out of the box and trying to use desktop applications in Linux with only 256MB of RAM is insanity.


Too slow, too unstable, too unreliable. Want to stream media? Forget it. Want to play an action packed game like Unreal Tournament 3? Better hope theres not too many walls or electronics in range of your wireless network.

The fact of the matter is that I can go buy an Xbox360 Premium right now, and a game, and have EVERYTHING I need to be playing HD games and communicating with people online within seconds of pulling the system out of the box. Even though the PS3 costs $499, it does not come with the cables you need to get HD video or a headset.

Infact, for what it costs to get good component or HDMI cables, and a headset, I could get the Xbox360 Premium and two games while the person buying the PS3 will be spending more on just the system plus needed accessories.

$499 is still too expensive. It is still a game machine no matter what Sony says. $499 to play games is outrageous. Especially when the system doesn't even come with the accessories you need to get the advertised functionality out of it, like HD graphics. You're spending $500 on just the console and you're getting an RCA cable. Yeah, thats a great deal.

I'm sorry, but Sony blew it with the PS3. I was a huge Playstation fan for the last 10 years. But the instant they announced the price at E3 last year, after many arrogant statements like "We want people to think they will work extra hours for one", they killed off all of the hype and anything the system might have had going for it.

Unless they get a system at $399 out before GTA4 is released, this generation affectively belongs to Microsoft because of Sony's own arrogance killing themselves. They seemed to have forgotten that people want to play GAMES and that the Playstation3 is a game machine above anything else. And that no amount of brand recognition can overcome a high price tag when the system is not worth it.
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
MOSX, Wireless has come on **** loads over the past couple of years. Up until recently I was using a (originally) mid-range wireless modem router. I wasn't keen on the wireless performance as I'd get a 30% signal and a very unstable connection.
We bought some fancy Netgear modem a few weeks back and I haven't lost my connection once. It's been a dream, the signal is now at 55% at 54mbps, despite being a good 4 walls and a floor away. My ping on HL2 has been cut down to 23 on my favoured server (down from 40).

Wireless is needed. Not everyone can set up a wired network. Our house is fairly large and it would be a massive job to set it all up.
 

Shotgun OS

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2006
505
4
Ohio
Sony give in (PS3 $100 price drop)

*shrug*
So what? A 100 buck price drop? Doesn't urge me or any of my friends to go out and buy one. Drop it 200, then maybe.
 

applekid

macrumors 68020
Jul 3, 2003
2,097
0
Seriously, I have never heard so many complaints about WiFi in my life! I cannot remember a time where my ping was higher than 60 when I played LAN games over WiFi with walls and floors between us. You are spreading some massive FUD, mosx.

Why does the 360 need WiFi? Because if they want to get all high and mighty on their whole "online experience" with Xbox Live, they better start making getting online easier. It's a bitch to have my Xbox bridged through my iMac to find out it doesn't always work with Live completely. Okay, my setup is awkward in the first place, but another $100 to get Live working completely for those of us that actually own a wireless router? Uh, f*ck you, too, Microsoft.

Then, let's not go into how my friends have Xbox Live troubles with their machines directly connected to the router via Ethernet cable. Live seemed great in theory, but from the voice chatting bigots (as I've seen personally seen and in the online gaming and racism thread here) to the fact not everybody is having a seamless experience getting Live to actually work (seems like it's under-reported in my opinion when I have 4 friends that can't invite me to games or even voice chats), there is A LOT of things Microsoft can still do in online gaming arena. I really have been disappointed by the Live experience. It was such a let down. I'm about to call up Microsoft to get a refund or cut off my Gold membership. I don't play online much because the stupidity of people online is just discouraging (for once, Nintendo's lack of voice-chatting in most of its online games actually is nice) and in my case, I can't play my friends, so what's the point?

But, let's get back on topic...

Lots of rumors today about the new 360 chip, redesigns, and of course price drops. All good, but did those Elite owners just get screwed? A new Xbox so soon? I may be disappointed that a new 360 may be in the pipeline soon because I've had mine for only a month now, but I'm really bothered about redesign talk when they just announced extended warranties. Basically every 360 owner to this point got a beta-quality box that is basically guaranteed to fail, while Microsoft attempts to release an updated version? Man, they better plan on doing some major replacing or recalling if that machine comes out any time soon. A price drop doesn't seem that important though. I don't think the PS3's price drop got everybody standing in line for the PS3.

Anyways, a redesigned Xbox should be definitely more reliable, smaller, cooler, and my pipe dream is it gets rid of the hard drive requirement. I want to use my own USB HD, thanks. I don't think they can shrink the 360 much because of the hard drive though. You can probably take a few inches in that space between the hardrive and front edge and make it shorter (if you stand your 360 vertically) by moving around the USB ports, memory units, and power button.

This thread totally requires a new title. "PS3 price drop and Xbox 360 price drop speculation" sounds better.
 
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