Go browse the internet on a machine from 2010 and a modern iPad and get back to me.
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Other Starting to appreciate some bits of the Intel-Mac era.
- Thread starter TheLion01
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Go browse the internet on a machine from 2010 and a modern iPad and get back to me.
My 2009 MacPro has no problem with the internet. I use a modern updated version of Vivaldi.
Unfortunately, my only iPad is a 6th gen iPad running iOS 17, and you said 'modern' so I can't make the comparison.
I don't notice much difference between browsing on Vivaldi on my MacPro and browsing on Vivaldi on my employer issued M2 MBP though.
It's the same connection though. I pay Cox for it's Gigabit speed tier.
Maybe you’re not as sensitive to latency as me.
Anyhow, just won an ebay auction on a 2013 Trashcan, but bought that for aesthetic purposes mostly. Future G4 cube collectability imho. May serve as a use for one of my old vega64s via an eGPU enclosure or something
I had a lot of reasons for finally switching from my G5 Quad to a MacPro in 2020. Part of that, but by no means all of it, was latency in a web browser.
I can also throw in my other work issued Mac, a 2015 MBP. Here's the thing though. The work issued MBP, which was used as my primary work Mac from February 2019 to November 2023, is running High Sierra.
So…
2009 MacPro, Mojave 32GB ram, Vivaldi browser.
2015 MBP, High Sierra 16GB ram, Vivaldi browser.
2023 M2 MBP, Sonoma 24GB ram, Vivaldi browser.
There is no appreciable difference in latency between any of them. Now if you're so sensitive that you can detect differences in milliseconds, then okay, I don't know what to say. But all three Macs have Gigabit connections. In the case of my MacPro, it's got three Gigabit connections and two WiFi connections.
So it has to come down to the browser. And that is one of the primary reasons I use Vivaldi. It's fast. And customizable. If I can get both, that's great, but I'm always willing to sacrifice a bit of speed for customization. With Vivaldi I lucked out and got both.
PS. Congrats on your eBay purchase.
The big issue with the current M Macs is you need to buy two of them if something goes wrong. During travels, you will always have to take two Macs with you.
It doesn't matter when you get stuck in a small town with only one computer store. In the past, it wasn't a problem if your Mac got broken in the middle of the night. Many users had spare parts like SSDs, RAM, or motherboards in their closets. It could took a few minutes, but no longer than a few hours to replace faulty parts.
You can fail in school or lose your job if you rely only on one computer from Apple. You can't even replace parts from a faulty computer of the same model. It was a great alternative to save some money.
We can forget about local computer gurus, computer stores, and auctions.
Apple isn't available in every small town open 24 hours a day. Now M Macs are the worse offer for people living in villages or small towns. This gap between Apple users livng in big cities and smaller areas wasn't a well-thought-out strategy.
A new Mac doesn't allow you to put new SSDs inside of them, which means less space on a desk. You need to put every device close to your computer instead of inside of it - it looks wrong. The worst part is the higher risk of losing an external SSD during travel.
What happened with the esthetically pleasing design of these computers?
0:50
People often don't care about their data. However, Apple shouldn't disallow their clients from using the services of professionals that can retrieve data from dead internal SSDs.
It doesn't matter when you get stuck in a small town with only one computer store. In the past, it wasn't a problem if your Mac got broken in the middle of the night. Many users had spare parts like SSDs, RAM, or motherboards in their closets. It could took a few minutes, but no longer than a few hours to replace faulty parts.
You can fail in school or lose your job if you rely only on one computer from Apple. You can't even replace parts from a faulty computer of the same model. It was a great alternative to save some money.
We can forget about local computer gurus, computer stores, and auctions.
Apple isn't available in every small town open 24 hours a day. Now M Macs are the worse offer for people living in villages or small towns. This gap between Apple users livng in big cities and smaller areas wasn't a well-thought-out strategy.
A new Mac doesn't allow you to put new SSDs inside of them, which means less space on a desk. You need to put every device close to your computer instead of inside of it - it looks wrong. The worst part is the higher risk of losing an external SSD during travel.
What happened with the esthetically pleasing design of these computers?
0:50
People often don't care about their data. However, Apple shouldn't disallow their clients from using the services of professionals that can retrieve data from dead internal SSDs.
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Somehow I always manage to get by fine on vacations with just one...
I really wonder how people imagine up these scenarios. Where do you expect to be fired because your personal computer suffered a hardware failure?
I've had RAM fail twice in Macs. The 128k is a common failure because the chips Apple used had manufacturing defects. I also had a bad stick in a Power Mac 8100/110 in 2015. None of this is very convincing evidence that RAM fails like cheap Christmas lights that a cat had fun with.
Meanwhile I've got a MacBook Air 1,1 with soldered RAM that hasn't given me a bit of trouble, and that thing had a hard life before I picked it up, and it's old enough to drive in most US states. I've got several other Macs with soldered RAM that also don't have faults despite being a decade old or more.
What you're lamenting is that you can't pick up a six year old Mac and shove some stuff in to buy a few more years out of it. No company on earth designs things for the second, third, or fourth owner, because none of those people are customers. Apple may have embraced the 'gray market' on iPads and iPhones, because they can make up services revenue on those, but that's not the case for the Mac.
You were lucky.
Games from Steam and personal files like photos aren't the issue here. On the other hand, you won't so be lucky when you are a student writing an essay or a worker/an entrepreneur working even two hours a day during their trips.
How ever lived in a place that doesn't have an Apple store?
You should try it if you didn't.
Living in places without Apple stores is a reality for millions of users. Apple is not McDonald's, which is almost everywhere.
Living in a small town with one computer store won't be useful for you anymore. You won't replace/fix almost anything on this computer without Apple's permission.
Nowadays, you frequently study or work remotely. You always have to meet deadlines even if you are far away. You won't do it if they flunk you in school or fire you.
Restarting a computer with faulty RAM won't be a productive tool.
I had many situations when I had to do something, and my computer didn't boot or work properly. You mentioned that you have more than one Apple computer.
What do you say to other users who have one computer from Apple?
You are talking about a computer from 2008 that has many replaceable parts. You can replace a motherboard, and your computer will be usable. You proved it's great to have a few Apple computers when one of them breaks down.
Can you show me it in my previous comment?
They don't have to do it.
Thousands of companies build computers with replaceable parts. Probably few companies forbid users to replace a motherboard with the exact model of a computer. Sadly, Apple is one of them.
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I've taken Macs to the Apple Store twice. Once to have a battery replaced with a genuine unit, one to have the LCD frame re-aligned. I could have done both of those myself, I chose not to.
You don't know what you're talking about, and it shows. The MBA 1,1 is the exact opposite of 'lots of replaceable parts'. The RAM is soldered. Many of the parts are custom and were changed later that year with the 2,1. Spinning disks for it haven't been produced in a decade, and 1.8" ZIF PATA drives aren't exactly a common SSD option (there's all of one manufacturer).
And again, I don't work remote on a computer I own. I use the company laptop for that. Your entire scenario is a weakly-written fantasy.
WHAT?! Yeah I need to take 2 laptops with me when I travel because mine doesn't have a socketed drive or ram. 99.9% of people are not going to a computer store or going into their closet or someone else's to find a spare drive or ram for their failed laptop. They're going to send it in for repair OR purchase a new one (more often than not if it's out of warranty).
I am a 'power user' and am in the 0.1% that could replace a failed part. However the singular time I had a laptop fail on me while traveling which was a MacBook Air probably 5+ years ago you know what I did? I put it back in my bag, drove my ass to Best Buy and bought a new one. When I got home I mailed it into Apple and then they fixed it. When I got it back I returned the new one I bought. I didn't even try to troubleshoot it at all. It had a socketed SSD, but I didn't have one with me or wanted to figure out how to get Mac OS on a flash drive to put a new OS on it. Turns out the motherboard was the failure anyways (in before you tell me ooooh could have been the soldered ram).
Not to mention the likelihood of failure of the soldered ram or SSD is so infinitesimally small. Much higher chance of failure of the socket in socketed models. I actually had an issue with my 2008 MacBook where the ram wouldn't seat right sometimes in the socket so if you bumped the computer it would KP. If it didn't have a socket that wouldn't have been an issue.
I probably will not even bother logging back onto here to see if you reply so no need to. Someone sent me this post and I thought it was so ridiculous I logged into this account I haven't posted on in years just to tell you your logic is so flawed.
This is no different to any Intel Mac made in the last decade. And before that the most common failures were GPU which are not available aftermarket as new spares.
Your argument that you need two Macs because an Apple silicon Mac may fail and imply that a single 3-5 plus year old Intel machine is a better idea to rely on is dubious at best.
You know how many times I’ve been hit by laptop failure of any kind (any brand) in my career since 1995?
Zero. I don’t see the need to “constantly carry 2 machines” or even worry about spares.
If you don’t try and rely on 10 plus year old hardware for your day job, you’ll run into less hardware problems. Doesn’t matter what processor is in it.
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This is a really good point I didn't even think of. I've only ran into a single failure personally and it didn't even matter. I solved the problem and my stuff was backed up.
What happens if his 10 year old intel machine goes bad in a way he can't repair himself while out of town? Gonna lose your job? No of course not thats the dumbest argument ever. If any company fires you because your laptop breaks its because you're too stupid to figure out a simple solution not because it broke.
This is all getting wacky for me. I had been using a 2010 MacBook Pro until I replaced it with an M1 MacBook Pro that’s been perfect. I never took either to an Apple store.
For that matter, I traveled for 5 years with an intel windows laptop with no issues other than needing to buy a local power adapter.
Laptops don’t just quit from my experience.
It's not the fact that it's cool, it's the fact that I find it horrible that if something breaks the machine is basically bricked, and you can't even fix anything yourself. This is a VERY important and useful feature, being able to fix it yourself. I understand your point of heat and efficiency, but to me, upgrade-/expandability is equally if not more important. it is what keeps the machine running.
I like your opinion, exactly, my view. I am considering a AS Mac soon, but the lack of upgradeability is so scary for me...lol because i just love being able to upgrade parts. And my current 2014 MBP 15 runs Sonoma beautifully via OCLP.
Most countries, and most cities, either have an Apple Store, or an Apple Certified reseller/ repairer. I live in the middle of nowhere, Thailand. There's an Apple Certified repair company about a 10 minute drive away. If there's one in Thailand, there's one in the country where you live.
Why does the thought of mildly repairable computers anger some people? Unrequited love of Apple seems too simplistic an answer. I remember people defending Apple when they glued in the MacBook Pro batteries to prevent them being removed, and people defended that- "well I want a more rigid laptop! I can afford to bin it or pay Apple to replace the battery when it dies. Everyone should accept it" 🤦♂️
I really enjoy the repairability of my early Intel and PPC machines but also accept the trend towards tiny, mass produced, SOC technology. I mean at some point this stuff is going to be in the ring on our finger or sandwiched between the sheetrock and wall paper lol. It is mildly alarming that I cant really fix my m2 mbp short of replacing all the guts entirely pretty much but that is also where tech is going. I guess I have warmed up to and am accepting that path.
If we're honest one of the hardest sticking points for me when considering a AS M series computer was the fact that after it becomes obsolete, I wont be able to easily repair it. That emotion around repairability I realized clouded my judgement. Why would I prevent myself from the next 8-10 years of benefit of a machine and current macos because of latching onto repairability which as a trend will become almost impossible as tech continues to shrink in size.
That was my thought process anyhow.
If we're honest one of the hardest sticking points for me when considering a AS M series computer was the fact that after it becomes obsolete, I wont be able to easily repair it. That emotion around repairability I realized clouded my judgement. Why would I prevent myself from the next 8-10 years of benefit of a machine and current macos because of latching onto repairability which as a trend will become almost impossible as tech continues to shrink in size.
That was my thought process anyhow.
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I disagree.
You know why,
Because older hardware is just as reliable as the newer stuff in my experience.
I have a 2010 MBP 15, which has it's keyboard typed into nothing, by some polish dude, then my friend gave it to me for free because it was having the infamous crashing problems, so I went and opened it up, was pleasantly surprised by how upgradeable it is (!!!), cleaned it, then made sure it had an SSD and max ram, then wiped the drive, and did a clean install of macOS...and...it was still crashing. After that, I was like, 'oh come on bro!', after looking on the internet for fixes for the crashing problem, i found a little software fix for it, with the only drawback to the fix being worse battery life, but i thought, since I will not be using this on battery a lot anyway, and the battery is pretty beaten by now as well, that doesnt matter, and at least in this way i can have an actually working computer. So, I tried the fix, and you know what, It hasnt crashed ONCE in the past year since all of this happened!! Not ONCE!! Before, it would happen every 5 minutes (while praying it wouldnt happen).
Moral of the story: Yes, older Macbooks have their issues, but they are built so well, and easier to repair, so if something does go wrong, the whole machine is not bricked, only the damaged part is.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
LMAO that is what Apple always says, 'whole computer is done, just buy a new one', when it actually most of the time is just a single failed part...
I really dislike this attitude.
If people are using older Macs for stuff, like me, and they love them. Leave them alone. Don't try to tell them to throw it out and buy the new thing (which will be uncool in a few years anyway, that's just how tech is).
And of course a 13-year-old computer with a ~45nm chip will be slower than a modern 5nm chip. Of course. That's just how tech is. It gets better/faster. *the better part is debatable btw*. So using this argument is kind of silly.
And to reply to your message directly, I use a 2010 15 MBP with 8gb ram and a SSD, and it is just fine for browsing the web imo. It's not even very slow. And when I put linux on it, it FLIES. And, I get the bonus that if something goes wrong, just replace a SSD or RAM, or one capacitor, and I'm good. This bonus cannot be overstated.
Right, I run Ubuntu 22.4.3 on my old Intel hardware and it is still so very useful. That is what I am typing this on actually:
Yes, AS is amazing and fast with insane batteries! but these older Intels still have so much value in continued use for DD tasks. Am I going to render 4k video on this? Obviously not LOL but thats not its purpose at this point. Like so many, my 08 mbs have an upgraded SSD, maxed ram and repasted heat sinks (because yes, they're good lap warmers otherwise lol).
Not knocking AS at all as I have one and it is next level, simply saying that early Intel still has alot to give with a little elbow grease.
exactly.
Lol i should add that my 2010 runs much cooler than any other device i have, it runs at 40C when browsing the web lol
They do occasionally but far less often than you might think inside of 5 years.
If they aren’t DOA (I.e. failure on delivery), and aren’t physically damaged by accident they generally last 5 years or more, but the failure rate does ramp significantly after that.
Capacitors die, batteries die and swell etc.