The Hackintosh Thread

[maflynn]

Snazzy Labs - April 2022 hackintosh

Notable quote in the video - "It out performs the 4,000 M1 ultra studio, oh at half the cost"

This is Apple's Achilles heal, they're pricing themselves out of the market, especially now when people are more conscience of their budget.

Personally I wouldn't hackintoish it, as you can find better GPUs that will be supported by windows and not spend a ton more money

I watched it up to the point where he said that it has a 1 KW PSU.

It doesn't draw that much power and building his computer in pcpicker it does seem overkill you definitely can opt for a smaller PSU with room to grow for the future.

There's no need to go out to try to waste money on electricity if you don't need to.

That's the keyword, as of right now imo, you can get a very powerful desktop that well out performs anything from Apple and if you need that performance then you're not wasting money.

Apple is playing its only card with power efficiency because intel/amd/nvidia out perform the ultra. People needing the performance of the ultra are largely less concerned with power consumption imo, as these are classes of machines are used to fill a need.

 

[maflynn]

I don't notice a difference in my power bill if I turned off my desktop, 2 monitors

I was going to say that too, my desktop with an ultra wide monitor running an 11th gen i7 processor and using that has not caused any sizable or noticeable increase in my electricity bill.

At one point I transitioned away from the desktop and used my Razer hooked up to my monitor, and when I switched back there wasn't a noticeable change in my electricity bill

 

[pshufd]

I don't notice a difference in my power bill if I turned off my desktop, 2 monitors etc or if I left them on. It's not pulling 1000w constantly or anything. I always laugh at that argument. It's miniscule on a monthly power usage scale. My power bills in the winter are 1200-2000 a month, but it has nothing to do with my pc running. It's heating the house with an electric furnace. 120,000 watts of goodness. ha ha.

Some people want efficiency and some people don't.

I happen to want efficiency.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Notable quote in the video - "It out performs the 4,000 M1 ultra studio, oh at half the cost"

This is Apple's Achilles heal, they're pricing themselves out of the market, especially now when people are more conscience of their budget.

Personally I wouldn't hackintoish it, as you can find better GPUs that will be supported by windows and not spend a ton more money


It doesn't draw that much power and building his computer in pcpicker it does seem overkill you definitely can opt for a smaller PSU with room to grow for the future.


That's the keyword, as of right now imo, you can get a very powerful desktop that well out performs anything from Apple and if you need that performance then you're not wasting money.

Apple is playing its only card with power efficiency because intel/amd/nvidia out perform the ultra. People needing the performance of the ultra are largely less concerned with power consumption imo, as these are classes of machines are used to fill a need.

See my post above Mike. My XPS does not draw its entire power draw 100 percent of the time, only when I need it. I have put a power meter on my power bar to test this theory. When using it normally for surfing etc, its only draw a small amount of power, but when it needs it to do tasks fast, boom, it's there!

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Some people want efficiency and some people don't.

I happen to want efficiency.

Fine, I want speed. more important to me to have a faster system than a system that is slow and uses less power.

 

[pshufd]

Notable quote in the video - "It out performs the 4,000 M1 ultra studio, oh at half the cost"

This is Apple's Achilles heal, they're pricing themselves out of the market, especially now when people are more conscience of their budget.

Personally I wouldn't hackintoish it, as you can find better GPUs that will be supported by windows and not spend a ton more money


It doesn't draw that much power and building his computer in pcpicker it does seem overkill you definitely can opt for a smaller PSU with room to grow for the future.


That's the keyword, as of right now imo, you can get a very powerful desktop that well out performs anything from Apple and if you need that performance then you're not wasting money.

Apple is playing its only card with power efficiency because intel/amd/nvidia out perform the ultra. People needing the performance of the ultra are largely less concerned with power consumption imo, as these are classes of machines are used to fill a need.

I've done builds in the past so I'm well aware of PSU and draw. But, again, I see no need for inefficiency. Intel doesn't seem to care about it either. AMD does seem to work on it harder than Intel.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I was going to say that too, my desktop with an ultra wide monitor running an 11th gen i7 processor and using that has not caused any sizable or noticeable increase in my electricity bill.

At one point I transitioned away from the desktop and used my Razer hooked up to my monitor, and when I switched back there wasn't a noticeable change in my electricity bill

Nope. As a matter of fact, I have 3 notebooks, and my desktop plugged in running all at the same time and it did not move the needle on my power bill. The only thing that has a sizable effect on it is heating. Heating the home, heating the water in my home and heating one of my ovens. The other oven is propane so that has zero effect on power either.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I've done builds in the past so I'm well aware of PSU and draw. But, again, I see no need for inefficiency. Intel doesn't seem to care about it either. AMD does seem to work on it harder than Intel.

At the expense of POWER and speed. AMD throttles the bejesus out of everything inside a notebook just to get a couple of hrs of battery life. My i7 gets 8 hrs on battery while surfing, word processing etc. it will get about 5 doing heavy work. My desktop mops the floor with the M series systems at heavy lifting and bests the Mac Pro in most situations too. Win win for me. I will pay the extra 50 cents a month on my power bill to compete my work tasks faster. Time is money.

 

[pshufd]

At the expense of POWER and speed. AMD throttles the bejesus out of everything inside a notebook just to get a couple of hrs of battery life. My i7 gets 8 hrs on battery while surfing, word processing etc. it will get about 5 doing heavy work. My desktop mops the floor with the M series systems at heavy lifting and bests the Mac Pro in most situations too. Win win for me. I will pay the extra 50 cents a month on my power bill to compete my work tasks faster. Time is money.

I have a Studio because I had to get that level of speed to get more RAM and display support. My workloads would be fine with the base M1 CPU if it could power 5 monitors and could be outfitted with 32 GB of RAM. I did build an Intel i7 system to run my workload and it's an efficient system but a software issue with Windows had me going back to macOS. I have built hackintoshes before but see no need to go through the effort to maintain them with Apple Silicon.

I like to be efficient in life.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Now, that all being said, efficiency is extremely important in notebook applications where extended of plug times may be needed. Fill yer boots then, but for a desktop, NOT NEEDED at all. I am looking at building a new workstation and I am going to fit a platinum 2000w psu in it.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I have a Studio because I had to get that level of speed to get more RAM and display support. My workloads would be fine with the base M1 CPU if it could power 5 monitors and could be outfitted with 32 GB of RAM. I did build an Intel i7 system to run my workload and it's an efficient system but a software issue with Windows had me going back to macOS. I have built hackintoshes before but see no need to go through the effort to maintain them with Apple Silicon.

I like to be efficient in life.

Time is efficency for me. I will make more in income with a powerful system than one that saves 50c a month on my power bill.

 

[pshufd]

Time is efficency for me. I will make more in income with a powerful system than one that saves 50c a month on my power bill.

Well, that's a valid reason.

Your tone, though, is of someone that enjoys conspicuous consumption.

I've used Exadata systems in the past so am aware of the concept of using the right tool for the job. But I don't write as if using a lot of resources is the point.

 

[maflynn]

I see no need for inefficiency

I see no inefficient when your goal is to get a machine that meets your processing power requirements. If you want the graphical capabilities of a RTX 40 series cards, Apple just doesn't have that, you need nvidia. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Want a machine to use a tiny bit of electricity then you have to give up performance.

Now with that said, kudos to Apple in how they designed the M series processor, it definitely does provide a lot of performance for minimal amount of electricity and many PC laptops cannot compete given the extended battery life.

Desktop users have different needs, they need more cpu/gpu and Apple has yet to effectively compete in that sector.

Intel doesn't seem to care about it either. AMD does seem to work on it harder than Intel.

I'd probably say it in this way - Intel and AMD's priorities are to squeeze out the most performance they can, and out class each other and apple in terms of processing power.

At the end of the day, if you care more about electricity usage then performance - then yes, Apple is a better choice for you, and there's nothing wrong with that, but many people are not really wanting to spend over 4,000 dollars for a studio when they can spend half that and get something that is faster.

I'm also wondering that you may not be saving 2,000 dollars with of electricity bills either. That is, lower electricity bill will not offset the 2x price point

 

[pshufd]

I see no inefficient when your goal is to get a machine that meets your processing power requirements. If you want the graphical capabilities of a RTX 40 series cards, Apple just doesn't have that, you need nvidia. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Want a machine to use a tiny bit of electricity then you have to give up performance.

Now with that said, kudos to Apple in how they designed the M series processor, it definitely does provide a lot of performance for minimal amount of electricity and many PC laptops cannot compete given the extended battery life.

Desktop users have different needs, they need more cpu/gpu and Apple has yet to effectively compete in that sector.


I'd probably say it in this way - Intel and AMD's priorities are to squeeze out the most performance they can, and out class each other and apple in terms of processing power.

At the end of the day, if you care more about electricity usage then performance - then yes, Apple is a better choice for you, and there's nothing wrong with that, but many people are not really wanting to spend over 4,000 dollars for a studio when they can spend half that and get something that is faster.

I'm also wondering that you may not be saving 2,000 dollars with of electricity bills either. That is, lower electricity bill will not offset the 2x price point

I saw a reddit post from someone in Germany that said that the marginal power cost of their Intel iMac to their Apple Silicon system was about $500 per year. That seems high to me but they have some seriously high power prices there.

Intel worked hard to get Apple's phone business a long time ago and they wanted Apple to use their Atom line but Atom never made it. So Intel cared about efficiency at some point. They just couldn't ever get there. I am sure that Intel and AMD would love to have the power efficiency of Apple Silicon as they'd love to have the market.

As I said earlier, I've built desktops with efficiency in mind myself. I don't need a lot of GPU horsepower and Apple Silicon meets my need though I wish that they provided more monitor support in their base CPU systems.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I saw a reddit post from someone in Germany that said that the marginal power cost of their Intel iMac to their Apple Silicon system was about $500 per year. That seems high to me but they have some seriously high power prices there.

Intel worked hard to get Apple's phone business a long time ago and they wanted Apple to use their Atom line but Atom never made it. So Intel cared about efficiency at some point. They just couldn't ever get there. I am sure that Intel and AMD would love to have the power efficiency of Apple Silicon as they'd love to have the market.

As I said earlier, I've built desktops with efficiency in mind myself. I don't need a lot of GPU horsepower and Apple Silicon meets my need though I wish that they provided more monitor support in their base CPU systems.

i agree. They do need to provide more monitor support. I do need alot of graphics power. My new workstation will probably have two GPU's in it. The faster I can rip through video editing projects the better. I would probably have a mac pro if it were not so bloody overpriced. My current system is faster for 1/4 the cost.

 

[pshufd]

i agree. They do need to provide more monitor support. I do need alot of graphics power. My new workstation will probably have two GPU's in it. The faster I can rip through video editing projects the better. I would probably have a mac pro if it were not so bloody overpriced. My current system is faster for 1/4 the cost.

That was the main motivation of Hackintosh before - but Apple Silicon gave such a performance boost that Intel and AMD had to increase their CPU horsepower and give it to you at a lower price. So Apple Silicon had a deflationary effect on CPU PPP. Apple never made it in GPU performance though. My Windows desktop did have 2 GPUs at one time to support the monitors but I'm not sure what it has right now as I haven't used it in a while.

The video did mention that Apple could drop macOS support at any time by just requiring T2 support and I'd rather just not have to worry about that. I have no problems using older versions of macOS but some people care about running a supported version.

In my previous job, IT kept moderately tight control over what you could use on your systems for work and that it should all be properly licensed or else the company could be liable for damages that you saw were big issues in the 1980s and 1990s. So, for work product that I produce, everything is properly licensed. I only run Hackintosh systems for personal stuff.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I stopped pirating long ago as well. Just not worth the aggravation.

 

[maflynn]

In my previous job, IT kept moderately tight control over what you could use on your systems for work and that it should all be properly licensed or else the company could be liable for damages

I think for personal use, a hackintosh is in the gray area, Not piracy but violating the EULA - which isn't really criminal offense (I'm assuming you have a Mac and thus a copy of MacOS). Piracy on the other hand, is using commercial software without buying it. I don't want to delve into the intricacies of EULA vs. Piracy but rather point out, that for business/commercial use, a hackintosh is a really bad idea.

I don't think Apple is interested in suing a hobbyist, but if a business is using Hackintoshs instead of buying Macs, I do think that does open the door legal headaches, and we all know the only winners when it comes to lawsuits are the lawyers. Not worth the risk imo.

I've done a hackintosh once or twice many many moons ago (more of, a "can I do it" mind set), I'll never do it again, it just not worth the hassle. I don't knock anyone from trying but I think overall using a Mac with the included support is definitely my preferred approach.

 

[pshufd]

I think for personal use, a hackintosh is in the gray area, Not piracy but violating the EULA - which isn't really criminal offense (I'm assuming you have a Mac and thus a copy of MacOS). Piracy on the other hand, is using commercial software without buying it. I don't want to delve into the intricacies of EULA vs. Piracy but rather point out, that for business/commercial use, a hackintosh is a really bad idea.

I don't think Apple is interested in suing a hobbyist, but if a business is using Hackintoshs instead of buying Macs, I do think that does open the door legal headaches, and we all know the only winners when it comes to lawsuits are the lawyers. Not worth the risk imo.

I've done a hackintosh once or twice many many moons ago (more of, a "can I do it" mind set), I'll never do it again, it just not worth the hassle. I don't knock anyone from trying but I think overall using a Mac with the included support is definitely my preferred approach.

For younger folks, the Business Software Alliance came about in the 1990s (or maybe the 1980s) because people in companies would buy a coy of something like Lotus 1-2-3 and install it on a bunch of computers. It might have been one employee or the actual intent of management. Then software companies tried to put in copy protection schemes and some people figured out how to work around those. So the BSA looked for internal whistleblowers at companies to rat them out.

Companies took software licensing seriously after the 1990s. Some of the operating system vendors even provided licensing management software for systems to make sure that all of the software on the system were properly licensed.

In the current age of managed systems, some systems are completely locked down while others allow you to install software on the honor system with periodic audits.

If I were using the services of a contractor, then I'd expect that they used licensed software, had the proper liability and injury insurance for their employees, etc. That is so that they don't translate liability to me. There are cases where a company that uses something dubious insures their customers from liability but I'd rather that they not have to do that in the first place.

Is Apple going to go after you? The only cases I recall is hardware companies selling PCs that run macOS. I have never heard them go after individuals building them. Do people use them for commercial use? Sure. I ran into a lady on YouTube who creates videos on how to do Hackintoshes and also sells consulting time to help people to build them. I've always said that don't advertise the legally questionable stuff you do but it appears to work for her.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

For younger folks, the Business Software Alliance came about in the 1990s (or maybe the 1980s) because people in companies would buy a coy of something like Lotus 1-2-3 and install it on a bunch of computers. It might have been one employee or the actual intent of management. Then software companies tried to put in copy protection schemes and some people figured out how to work around those. So the BSA looked for internal whistleblowers at companies to rat them out.

Companies took software licensing seriously after the 1990s. Some of the operating system vendors even provided licensing management software for systems to make sure that all of the software on the system were properly licensed.

In the current age of managed systems, some systems are completely locked down while others allow you to install software on the honor system with periodic audits.

If I were using the services of a contractor, then I'd expect that they used licensed software, had the proper liability and injury insurance for their employees, etc. That is so that they don't translate liability to me. There are cases where a company that uses something dubious insures their customers from liability but I'd rather that they not have to do that in the first place.

Is Apple going to go after you? The only cases I recall is hardware companies selling PCs that run macOS. I have never heard them go after individuals building them. Do people use them for commercial use? Sure. I ran into a lady on YouTube who creates videos on how to do Hackintoshes and also sells consulting time to help people to build them. I've always said that don't advertise the legally questionable stuff you do but it appears to work for her.

I remember all of that. That's how I used to get most of my software. Get the "commercial" version from friends etc. Now I would rather spend the money and buy my software. That being said, I am still ticked at Apple for not allowing me to download or sending me the discs for my legally purchased digital copy of Aperture for my old 2007 macbook after they stopped support it. I think I paid 499.99 for it in 2010. It rots me to purchase apple products knowing at anytime they can just go...WHELP, we are no longer supporting something you paid for. Tuff tittie.

 

[pshufd]

I remember all of that. That's how I used to get most of my software. Get the "commercial" version from friends etc. Now I would rather spend the money and buy my software. That being said, I am still ticked at Apple for not allowing me to download or sending me the discs for my legally purchased digital copy of Aperture for my old 2007 macbook after they stopped support it. I think I paid 499.99 for it in 2010. It rots me to purchase apple products knowing at anytime they can just go...WHELP, we are no longer supporting something you paid for. Tuff tittie.

Apple layered software support has been inconsistent over the years and managing CDs and DVDs was often a problem for software companies. I am comfortable using the iCloud apps but that's about it. I often look for open source alternatives and have contributed back significant development time to Mozilla. Apple is putting more and more into their operating systems in terms of conveniences.

If you want to really save software, you need to save it somewhere. I think that a time machine backup would do the trick but you have to do it before you need it. I have TurboTax installations going back to 2011 on my Studio and they are backed up - just in case I need to run an old version to look at an old return.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Apple layered software support has been inconsistent over the years and managing CDs and DVDs was often a problem for software companies. I am comfortable using the iCloud apps but that's about it. I often look for open source alternatives and have contributed back significant development time to Mozilla. Apple is putting more and more into their operating systems in terms of conveniences.

If you want to really save software, you need to save it somewhere. I think that a time machine backup would do the trick but you have to do it before you need it. I have TurboTax installations going back to 2011 on my Studio and they are backed up - just in case I need to run an old version to look at an old return.

I would have been nice of them to tell me that we will probably put the kybosh on this, so make a backup. But anyways, I have much better software now from 3rd party. I was just stating this is why I am not a fan of apple at the moment. Even though I am close to buying a macbook from a co worker so I can try out the new OS.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Can I do a decent Hackintosh with this old girl? I am fine with a version or two before ventura on it as well.

Review Acer Aspire S3-391-53314G52add Ultrabook

In-depth review of the Acer Aspire S3-391-53314G52add (Intel Core i5 3317U, Intel HD Graphics 4000, 13.3", 1.4 kg) with numerous measurements, benchmarks and ratings

www.notebookcheck.net

I have upgraded the ram and SSD.

 

[pshufd]

Can I do a decent Hackintosh with this old girl? I am fine with a version or two before ventura on it as well.

Review Acer Aspire S3-391-53314G52add Ultrabook

In-depth review of the Acer Aspire S3-391-53314G52add (Intel Core i5 3317U, Intel HD Graphics 4000, 13.3", 1.4 kg) with numerous measurements, benchmarks and ratings

www.notebookcheck.net

I have upgraded the ram and SSD.

I was able to do a Hackintosh with a 2008 Dell XPS Studio (it was too old for Opencore), so it's probably possible but you'd have to figure out which flavors of Hackintosh would work best with it. It is not going to be a great experience with only a dual-core CPU.

Geekbench 6 scores are 418/831. The 2010 iMac i7 scores 526/1,695 which is around where I think you have decent performance for office stuff.

It might be easier to just get a used 2010 iMac i7 to use. I bought mine for $100 a couple of years ago.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I was able to do a Hackintosh with a 2008 Dell XPS Studio (it was too old for Opencore), so it's probably possible but you'd have to figure out which flavors of Hackintosh would work best with it. It is not going to be a great experience with only a dual-core CPU.

Geekbench 6 scores are 418/831. The 2010 iMac i7 scores 526/1,695 which is around where I think you have decent performance for office stuff.

It might be easier to just get a used 2010 iMac i7 to use. I bought mine for $100 a couple of years ago.

there's nothing like that around here. Theres a mini with 4gb of ram and 256gb ssd for 225.00. It's a 2014. Is that fully upgradeable inside? he claims it is. If so, I can probably make something decent out of that one. Also, do you think I could opencore ventura onto it?