Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

[samiwas]

So naive. Do you not realize that the only reason the loopholes are there in the first place is because some lobbyist working for a corporation put it there?

If they actually do close the loophole, it's because another corporation paid more than the one who put it there.

There will always be loopholes as long as there are lobbyists. The only solution is to move to a flat tax with no deductions on worldwide income. Something in the 20-25% range. That's more than the effective rate (18%) and less than the statutory rate (35%) so both sides will be happy.

Unfortunately, this will never happen because our elected officials like the current system because it pays for their elections.

Welcome to the real world samiwas.

I'm naive? I have said the exact same thing you just did on several occasions. In fact, just a few posts above I said this:

I'm all for it. Lower the corporate tax rate, and remove all deductions. Make it simple. You make money, you pay money. Done and done. Lose all the big teams of accountants and lawyers and send them packing.

(EDIT: Actually, the only deduction should be for actual taxes paid already on profits to other governments)

Going to a flat tax with no deductions is removing loopholes.

I've also talked on many occasions about how companies can say "Hey we follow the rules!" because they wrote the rules. Two of them being these, also from this thread:

Of course. But it really helps when your friends write the rules. That doesn't mean the rules are right. It also doesn't necessarily mean that the rules are being followed as they were intended, hence the term "loophole".

Of course not. It's like someone being best friends with their HOA president, having rules changed for them, then saying "Hey, I just follow the rules!". When you're friends with the ones who make the laws, of course the laws will be crafted for your benefit. And then you act all innocent because "you just follow the laws"? Please.

Welcome to reading comprehension, Dmunjai.

 

[1458279]

It's so hard for humans to have a civil discussion about nearly anything, but much more when the something doesn't have a clear provable answer and more so when it has control over others lives.

Not only do we have this crap going on in the making of laws, but what about government contracts? What about Congress doing insider trading?

Hard to send corrupt people to Washington and expect them to act fairly.

 

[Dmunjal]

I'm naive? I have said the exact same thing you just did on several occasions. In fact, just a few posts above I said this:



Going to a flat tax with no deductions is removing loopholes.

I've also talked on many occasions about how companies can say "Hey we follow the rules!" because they wrote the rules. Two of them being these, also from this thread:





Welcome to reading comprehension, Dmunjai.

I think we are both identifying the problem correctly. I also believe we are providing the correct solution.

Unfortunately, you seem to think that closing loopholes are possible. You also have faith in the government to do the right thing. This is where we differ. I don't believe this will ever happen. Because not only have lobbyists and corporations captured the regulatory framework, the politicians also love the current system. The money they get pays for their elections and help them stay in office. And in power. That's where the naivete comes in.

 

[samiwas]

I think we are both identifying the problem correctly. I also believe we are providing the correct solution.

Unfortunately, you seem to think that closing loopholes are possible. You also have faith in the government to do the right thing. This is where we differ. I don't believe this will ever happen. Because not only have lobbyists and corporations captured the regulatory framework, the politicians also love the current system. The money they get pays for their elections and help them stay in office. And in power. That's where the naivete comes in.

Closing the loopholes is possible. But, I am fully aware that nothing will ever happen. This is America, where when we find out we're doing something wrong, we try to do it even more.

 

[Dmunjal]

Closing the loopholes is possible. But, I am fully aware that nothing will ever happen. This is America, where when we find out we're doing something wrong, we try to do it even more.

Again, your saying what it sounds like is that government is inept while I'm saying that they are actively corrupt and in bed with corporations. They know exactly what they're doing.

 

[samiwas]

Again, your saying what it sounds like is that government is inept while I'm saying that they are actively corrupt and in bed with corporations. They know exactly what they're doing.

Hence, "When you're friends with the ones who make the laws, of course the laws will be crafted for your benefit."

Does that not read as corruption?

My statement regarding doing wrong and doing it more meant exactly that. They know they're doing it wrong, and to stick it in your face, they'll do it more.

 

[Dmunjal]

Hence, "When you're friends with the ones who make the laws, of course the laws will be crafted for your benefit."

Does that not read as corruption?

My statement regarding doing wrong and doing it more meant exactly that. They know they're doing it wrong, and to stick it in your face, they'll do it more.

So, if you agree that government is corrupt and is influenced by corporate interests, please explain to me your position on why we need more government, more regulation, and more oversight of corporations when we both know what the end result will be.

 

[1458279]

Here's one way to empower the people:
http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/convention-of-states-would-empower-the-people/

 

[samiwas]

So, if you agree that government is corrupt and is influenced by corporate interests, please explain to me your position on why we need more government, more regulation, and more oversight of corporations when we both know what the end result will be.

Because the other position, letting corporations run rampant in whatever way they want, is far, far worse. You cannot possibly think otherwise unless your brain has literally melted. Government is corrupt in some ways, but not in every way. But not much will hold corporation back if they get free reign.

What, exactly, is your position?
[doublepost=1452577054][/doublepost]

Here's one way to empower the people:
http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/convention-of-states-would-empower-the-people/

Tin foil for everyone!!

 

[Dmunjal]

Because the other position, letting corporations run rampant in whatever way they want, is far, far worse. You cannot possibly think otherwise unless your brain has literally melted. Government is corrupt in some ways, but not in every way. But not much will hold corporation back if they get free reign.

What, exactly, is your position?

You missed the right answer. There is another position.

Get government out it. If there is no government to micromanage corporate regulations, there is nothing to corrupt.

Corporate power has risen with the rise of big government. They go hand in hand.

Look at where there is little government intervention like in Silicon Valley and see the amazing levels of competition, innovation, customer satisfaction, and cost reductions.

Compare it to banking, education, healthcare, and you see the mess that government creates when they get in bed with corporations.

 

[1458279]

Because the other position, letting corporations run rampant in whatever way they want, is far, far worse. You cannot possibly think otherwise unless your brain has literally melted. Government is corrupt in some ways, but not in every way. But not much will hold corporation back if they get free reign.

What, exactly, is your position?
[doublepost=1452577054][/doublepost]

Tin foil for everyone!!

1. You can vote out the government only if you live in a swing precinct of OH or FL.
2. it assumes you'll find an honest politician.

A business can be put out of business by voting at any time with your dollars. The replacement for the business doesn't even have to be there, it could be YOU. You can grow your own food, fix your own car, build your own house. You can become the change.

Businesses can be replaced. Try getting rid of a government agency. They answer to nobody, the IRS proved that. Agree with them, or go to jail. With a business, agree with them, or shop elsewhere.

 

[Dmunjal]

1. You can vote out the government only if you live in a swing precinct of OH or FL.
2. it assumes you'll find an honest politician.

A business can be put out of business by voting at any time with your dollars. The replacement for the business doesn't even have to be there, it could be YOU. You can grow your own food, fix your own car, build your own house. You can become the change.

Businesses can be replaced. Try getting rid of a government agency. They answer to nobody, the IRS proved that. Agree with them, or go to jail. With a business, agree with them, or shop elsewhere.

Exactly.

Look at how quickly the free market killed Nokia and BlackBerry. Two giants only a decade ago.

Look at how Tesla and Uber are revolutionizing transport.

Look at how Khan Academy is revolutionizing education.

Here's an example of a doctor revolutionizing healthcare.

https://www.theobjectivestandard.co...josh-umbehr-on-concierge-medicine-revolution/

Government never gets smaller. They need to grow to maintain power. They have no competition as they are a legislative monopoly.

 

[1458279]

Exactly.

Look at how quickly the free market killed Nokia and BlackBerry. Two giants only a decade ago.

Look at how Tesla and Uber are revolutionizing transport.

Look at how Khan Academy are revolutionizing education.

Here's and example of a doctor revolutionizing healthcare.

https://www.theobjectivestandard.co...josh-umbehr-on-concierge-medicine-revolution/

Government never gets smaller. They need to grow to maintain power. They have no competition as they are a legislative monopoly.

Great examples. This gives direct power to the people. If Apple puts out a dud product, they'll pay the price.

I just saw a show about Obama and someone talked about how only 30% of the people cared about healthcare when he was elected and how he could have played things so differently. It was too late to do anything about it but gridlock. Even with the wave of change after Obama was elected, with some 900 seats changing parties, we still have gridlock.

We didn't have much gridlock when Blockbuster Video fell to online streaming.

 

[samiwas]

Exactly.

Look at how quickly the free market killed Nokia and BlackBerry. Two giants only a decade ago.

Look at how Tesla and Uber are revolutionizing transport.

Look at how Khan Academy is revolutionizing education.

Here's an example of a doctor revolutionizing healthcare.

https://www.theobjectivestandard.co...josh-umbehr-on-concierge-medicine-revolution/

Government never gets smaller. They need to grow to maintain power. They have no competition as they are a legislative monopoly.

So, remove all regulations and just let corporations go at it? And you call ME naive???

All of the examples you listed still have regulations imposed on them. They are not operating in a wild open world. Nokia and Blackberry still have to deal with environmental regulations, financial regulations, corporate regulations, safety regulations, etc. Tesla and Uber as well. I don't know what you're trying to prove. That "the market" will fix companies who abuse the environment? That "the market" will fix a company who is treating its workers like crap? That "the market" will oversee safety of a factory?

As for "government just keeps getting bigger", do you mean in terms of the people working for it, or just the amount of rules involved, or both?

 

[Dmunjal]

So, remove all regulations and just let corporations go at it? And you call ME naive???

All of the examples you listed still have regulations imposed on them. They are not operating in a wild open world. Nokia and Blackberry still have to deal with environmental regulations, financial regulations, corporate regulations, safety regulations, etc. Tesla and Uber as well. I don't know what you're trying to prove. That "the market" will fix companies who abuse the environment? That "the market" will fix a company who is treating its workers like crap? That "the market" will oversee safety of a factory?

I don't mean no regulations but drastically less than now. I really don't think you know how bad it is.

https://cei.org/10kc2015

As for "government just keeps getting bigger", do you mean in terms of the people working for it, or just the amount of rules involved, or both?

What it spends, what it does, and how many employees/contractors.

 

[1458279]

So, remove all regulations and just let corporations go at it? And you call ME naive???

All of the examples you listed still have regulations imposed on them. They are not operating in a wild open world. Nokia and Blackberry still have to deal with environmental regulations, financial regulations, corporate regulations, safety regulations, etc. Tesla and Uber as well. I don't know what you're trying to prove. That "the market" will fix companies who abuse the environment? That "the market" will fix a company who is treating its workers like crap? That "the market" will oversee safety of a factory?

As for "government just keeps getting bigger", do you mean in terms of the people working for it, or just the amount of rules involved, or both?

I'd never back going to a wild west, no rules environment. It's more about balance and finding a point where the people benefit compared to the costs.

If you look the the economics of it, determine the costs vs what the people actually get. I worked in a union store back in college. The union really did nothing but collect money. The treatment wasn't any better than anywhere else that I worked at.

We've had plenty of examples of products coming out of China that caused problems for people. GM and Chrysler both are examples of people dying because of what a big company did.

It's really about balance.