Tim Cook 'Deeply Offended' by BBC Documentary on Apple Factory Conditions

[Max(IT)]

You judge too quickly and without any sound reason for a person "who has actually seen horrible conditions first hand".
You should have taken your time to read back. The starting point of the discussion was: the employees who tragically died were not working only on iPhones/iPads. The statement was proven wrong.
It is another question who or what killed them. But this was not the subject of the discussion. Though it is worth paying attention to.

You can never know what others saw "first hand" in life.

Nolite iudicare, ut non iudicemini! Buddy!

No. The starting point you twisted was: working condition of Foxconn employees aren't an Apple fault, but Foxconn.
I ask you again: do you really think the same employee is treated differently while assembling an iPhone and while assembling a Sony Z3 ?

 

[apolloa]

While they do currently make the Mac Pros in America now, the demand is so small it is much more achievable, not so with the rest of their products. Especially mobile.

Technology changes very rapidly and changes between the different material needed. They may stop using certain parts to switch to another. Apples not into the factory building business. It makes no sense to build a certain factory only to shut it down a few years later once they stop using a certain component.

Look at the Apple sapphire partner GT Advanced filing for bankruptcy waiting on Apple to utilize the plant.

I don't think you realize on what type of scale it takes to make every component on an iPhone. On top of that the ever changing technology into making a new model every 2 years. In quantities able to supply the whole world.

Manufacturing in America is not what it once was. China has the infrastructure, raw materials, flexibility, and manpower to pull it off. But America does not.

Also your analogy is flawed, because otherwise you would have to ask yourself why Intel factories and all the other factories in Silicon Valley don't close every time they invent a new component, or why car factories do not close when they introduce new models.
Also why to Pegatron and Foxconn never close when they make a new Apple device? Because they simply adapt and retool, it's what factories do.
Apple could easily build them, they choose not to for profit.

I am not saying it's a small thing, I am stating that Apple refuse to do it as they want the extra profit instead.

As for GT Advanced? That's totally different and if you ask me, Apple had a hand in that.

Apple has more then enough money to probably fund a manned mission to Mars, it can afford to have some factories built, or, use American companies in America to make it's products.

 

[Count Blah]

Hilarious how you substantiate bias by quoting the Telegraph,

I guess they made up all the dirt the former director of news at BBC was dishing. Or are you one of those who refuses to look at information from the other side of the aisle?

Might as well move to Russia where they pretty much only have state sponsored news anymore. You'd feel right at home.

 

[PracticalMac]

The BBC also investigated tin mines in Indonesia, where it found children mining the ore in dangerous conditions. The BBC claims this tin makes its way into Apple's supply chain without the company's knowledge.

How can Apple be at fault if its suppliers hide the fact?
Common BBC, you are really fing up.

And where does the rest of the tin go? Dell? HTC?, or maybe OMG, Samsung!?!?!?


...BBC needs to fire someone.

 

[numlock]

How can Apple be at fault if its suppliers hide the fact?
Common BBC, you are really fing up.

And where does the rest of the tin go? Dell? HTC?, or maybe OMG, Samsung!?!?!?


...BBC needs to fire someone.

have you watched the episode?

 

[kettle]

Which part of BBC Worldwide being commercially independent from the BBC do you not understand? They take BBC programming, and sell them around the world to other broadcasters, platforms like Netflix, DVD distribution etc. For profit, yes. This profit goes back into the BBC to fund additional programming. BBC Worldwide does not commission Panorama - the programme is commissioned and funded by the television license fee in the UK. The only thing you could accuse Panorama of doing is chasing ratings - yes - but not profit.

I have read your links - you're putting two and two together and getting 50.

The sale of the brand in which you refer to would give other broadcasters around the world the right to use the Panorama brand for their own investigative documentaries. Again - it's the brand for sale, not the journalism.

Please try and understand this before commenting again. I shan't comment further, so you can have the last word if you wish. However - and please know this - you are wrong.

Merry Christmas

...saying BBC worldwide is independent of the BBC is like saying the NHS is independent of pharmaceutical companies.

and sensationalist journalism is exactly my point - thank you for verifying that (again)

...where were the complaints of questionable journalism in the past? this isn't just the Apple documentary, there have been a series of controversial 'Panoramas' that question the quality of journalism not just the subject.

click bait

BBC worldwide shares this 'BBC' gem with the rest of the world - with the more recent intention of selling the will without the wherewithal - or - off loading a brand.

...we both agree a sale with benefits - to THE BBC.

I'm glad you won't comment further - consider this option earlier another time and perhaps save the sanctimony for your mother - she may well enjoy the attention.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

While they do currently make the Mac Pros in America now, the demand is so small it is much more achievable, not so with the rest of their products. Especially mobile.

Technology changes very rapidly and changes between the different material needed. They may stop using certain parts to switch to another. Apples not into the factory building business. It makes no sense to build a certain factory only to shut it down a few years later once they stop using a certain component.

Look at the Apple sapphire partner GT Advanced filing for bankruptcy waiting on Apple to utilize the plant.

I don't think you realize on what type of scale it takes to make every component on an iPhone. On top of that the ever changing technology into making a new model every 2 years. In quantities able to supply the whole world.

Manufacturing in America is not what it once was. China has the infrastructure, raw materials, flexibility, and manpower to pull it off. But America does not.

It's likely that the GT plant was just a set u to move the jobs over seas in the first place. china had nothing a few decades ago America built if for them and made then what they are today! It can be done and it has been done before!

----------

Also your analogy is flawed, because otherwise you would have to ask yourself why Intel factories and all the other factories in Silicon Valley don't close every time they invent a new component, or why car factories do not close when they introduce new models.
Also why to Pegatron and Foxconn never close when they make a new Apple device? Because they simply adapt and retool, it's what factories do.
Apple could easily build them, they choose not to for profit.

I am not saying it's a small thing, I am stating that Apple refuse to do it as they want the extra profit instead.

As for GT Advanced? That's totally different and if you ask me, Apple had a hand in that.

Apple has more then enough money to probably fund a manned mission to Mars, it can afford to have some factories built, or, use American companies in America to make it's products.

I agree with you! Apple had to know the GT was not ready to produce the glass they need at the right time. The GT scandal was a set up if you ask me.

 

[Gym Hellwig]

Tim Cook is not my type of guy.

 

[xSinghx]

Yet any cell phone you buy that isn't Apple most likely has the same, or more likely - worse working conditions.

The difference is Apple is one of the very few companies doing something about it.


Edit: here's the official email:

The evidence would suggest otherwise.

 

[Zxxv]

Tim Cook is not my type of guy.

I like women.

 

[the8thark]

I feel sorry for Tim Cook. He is not being treated with the equality he so wished for. Being treated as an equal might be one thing on Tim Cook's bucket list that will never be completed.
I consider Tim Cook an equal even if so many others do not. Having to say this in PRSI does pain me though. I wish I could say it anywhere.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Also your analogy is flawed, because otherwise you would have to ask yourself why Intel factories and all the other factories in Silicon Valley don't close every time they invent a new component, or why car factories do not close when they introduce new models.
Also why to Pegatron and Foxconn never close when they make a new Apple device? Because they simply adapt and retool, it's what factories do.
Apple could easily build them, they choose not to for profit.

There is a big distinction because those factories will build products for anybody willing to pay for it. Any factories Apple builds is only for itself. Its highly unlikely Apple would sell any of its parts to its competitors.

Pegatron & Foxconn also work on nearly all the major manufactures of electronics, not just Apple.

Even if Apple did build factories in the U.S., most the parts and raw material are still from China and asian countries. One of the reasons why the manufacturing was moved to China.

China had nothing a few decades ago America built if for them and made then what they are today! It can be done and it has been done before!

If it took China a few decades to become a major industrial powerhouse, how long do you think it would take Apple to catch up?

It's likely that the GT plant was just a set u to move the jobs over seas in the first place.

I agree with you! Apple had to know the GT was not ready to produce the glass they need at the right time. The GT scandal was a set up if you ask me.

As for GT Advanced? That's totally different and if you ask me, Apple had a hand in that.

Ok, so Elvis was abducted by space aliens? Cloud the issue by claiming it was a conspiracy theory.

 

[Gym Hellwig]

I feel sorry for Tim Cook. He is not being treated with the equality he so wished for. Being treated as an equal might be one thing on Tim Cook's bucket list that will never be completed.
I consider Tim Cook an equal even if so many others do not. Having to say this in PRSI does pain me though. I wish I could say it anywhere.

One day white millionaires will be treated with equality. Not soon, but one day. Do not lose hope, my friend.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

There is a big distinction because those factories will build products for anybody willing to pay for it. Any factories Apple builds is only for itself. Its highly unlikely Apple would sell any of its parts to its competitors.

Pegatron & Foxconn also work on nearly all the major manufactures of electronics, not just Apple.

Even if Apple did build factories in the U.S., most the parts and raw material are still from China and asian countries. One of the reasons why the manufacturing was moved to China.



If it took China a few decades to become a major industrial powerhouse, how long do you think it would take Apple to catch up?



Ok, so Elvis was abducted by space aliens? Cloud the issue by claiming it was a conspiracy theory.

You need to take a long hard look at the way the world works. The United States built china via technology transfers for several decade long! china built with American technology and skill! china had nothing industrial wise to offer the world a few decades ago! china had no patents, no trademarks from which to work from! We transferred it to them! Nations build themselves, they are not built by the knowledge base of others. china uses the money that they steal to buy up most of the worlds mineral rights and take it off the market. The china way way is to buy what they could never invent themselves and sell as if it was their own. Do your research!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

You need to take a long hard look at the way the world works. The United States built china via technology transfers for several decade long! china built with American technology and skill! china had nothing industrial wise to offer the world a few decades ago! china had no patents, no trademarks from which to work from! We transferred it to them! Nations build themselves, they are not built by the knowledge base of others. china uses the money that they steal to buy up most of the worlds mineral rights and take it off the market. The china way way is to buy what they could never invent themselves and sell as if it was their own. Do your research!

Very thought-provoking especially for those who never realized what were/would be the effects, consequences of outsourcing production of almost everything to China in the light of hyper-profit.
And no, don't make a parallel with Japan as it embraced market eonomy during the Meiji period from 1868. Many of today's enterprises were founded at that time.

 

[leroypants]

Yes? But there is salami on my DSLR camera and my cat is interested in this situation, so I need to redirect my attention to this for now.

So no...you can't...got it.

 

[TheHateMachine]

More horsepucky.

Short term thinking, such as you depicted, is the mark of a bad capitalist.

Try again.

Horsepucky? You make money by providing a service that people cannot do themselves, don't know how to do efficiently or are just plain lazy. What is short sighted about that?

Why don't you take your own advice and try again.

 

[Max(IT)]

Just wow. The amount of denial – I presume most of it coming from American population – and ignorance here is just astonishing.

I can't hardly see how is fair to blame BBC or even Samsung (come on...) in this case.

People, seriously. First, Apple is not your religion nor your father's company. Once you've acknowledged that, please try to think a little bit before commenting.

Samsung isn't any different from Apple, since it's just another Foxconn's customer. So the poorly treated Foxconn employees are assembling Samsung (and many others) products also....

----------

Well, very wise words. The main problem that this whole issue is taken as a personal insult by some.

The main problem is some people are here just to use this kind of thread to personally attack Apple's customers.

----------

I already posted earlier the reasons Apple uses China & it has a lot more to do then just cheap labour.



Interesting enough Apple spends much less on advertising then most other manufacturers. I also posted these links before when people always say its just Apples better at advertising then its products. And most people never seem to refute this link as well.

I think on the most part their products speak for themselves, thats why they don't need extensive advertising to promote them.

http://mashable.com/2014/04/08/samsung-apple-ad-spend/

Every link that doesn't support the Apple bashing policy is just discharged and ignored mate

----------

Thanks for the apology

Now, infrastructure, I don't buy that because America is MORE then big enough to have these big plants built and it has plenty of workers that are capable of doing the same jobs. It is just Apple won't pay the money for that in America, because it affects their bottom line.
Hence why Apple is all about the money first and foremost. It has more then enough to build plants in America and yet refuses to do so.

But who knows, I mean at least they assemble the Mac Pro in America so maybe one day they'll do the same with their other products but looking at the Mac Pro and its cost, I think the profit margins could be higher then the last one and so they don't take a hit, but I am not sure.

Actually America, nor any European country, hasn't such big plants as Foxconn of Pegatron, for one reason or another....

This is a fact.

----------

While they do currently make the Mac Pros in America now, the demand is so small it is much more achievable, not so with the rest of their products. Especially mobile.

Technology changes very rapidly and changes between the different material needed. They may stop using certain parts to switch to another. Apples not into the factory building business. It makes no sense to build a certain factory only to shut it down a few years later once they stop using a certain component.

Look at the Apple sapphire partner GT Advanced filing for bankruptcy waiting on Apple to utilize the plant.

I don't think you realize on what type of scale it takes to make every component on an iPhone. On top of that the ever changing technology into making a new model every 2 years. In quantities able to supply the whole world.

Manufacturing in America is not what it once was. China has the infrastructure, raw materials, flexibility, and manpower to pull it off. But America does not.

It is very sad to see such a bright analysis ignored by bashers....

 

[iRock1]

Samsung isn't any different from Apple, since it's just another Foxconn's customer. So the poorly treated Foxconn employees are assembling Samsung (and many others) products also....

----------



The main problem is some people are here just to use this kind of thread to personally attack Apple's customers.

----------


Every link that doesn't support the Apple bashing policy is just discharged and ignored mate

----------



Actually America, nor any European country, hasn't such big plants as Foxconn of Pegatron, for one reason or another....

This is a fact.

----------



It is very sad to see such a bright analysis ignored by bashers....

I know Samsung and a lot of other technology companies are to blame too. However, I was referring to the stupid theories that claim this case was orchestrated by Samsung in order to damage Apple.

 

[Max(IT)]

I know Samsung and a lot of other technology companies are to blame too. However, I was referring to the stupid theories that claim this case was orchestrated by Samsung in order to damage Apple.

That's surely not true....

 

[iRock1]

That's surely not true....

I guess you're being sarcastic. If so, do you have any decent evidence to support such a fantastic theory?

And even if that was true, it still doesn't address the main issue here.

 

[Max(IT)]

I guess you're being sarcastic. If so, do you have any decent evidence to support such a fantastic theory?

And even if that was true, it still doesn't address the main issue here.

I'm not sarcastic at all.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

I know Samsung and a lot of other technology companies are to blame too. However, I was referring to the stupid theories that claim this case was orchestrated by Samsung in order to damage Apple.

Not sure about that but it's possible, it true, it will just comeback to haunt them.

 

[2499723]

1.
The issue is more with apple rather colourful supply chain, ie foxconn/peagtron - apple per se are certainly a botch above other companies.

2. The BBC is not a business that generates a profit, it is financed from tax revenues on TV licensing, furthermore, panorama, are renowned for their objective, hard-hitting and in depth journalism.

TV licensing is a private company. Just because ad revenue doesn't fuel the BBC's coffers doesn't mean that they have no monetary motivations. And 'objective' and 'hard-hitting' are not exactly the terms I'd associate with the BBC. They're soft-touch neoliberal apologists at the best of times.

----------

Apart from the fact that the BBC does not make profit from this....

License fees = profit. Where do people get this idea that the revenue the BBC generates from fees is somehow not profit-generating? The BBC is NOT a public service and neither is the TV Licensing Agency.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

TV licensing is a private company. Just because ad revenue doesn't fuel the BBC's coffers doesn't mean that they have no monetary motivations. And 'objective' and 'hard-hitting' are not exactly the terms I'd associate with the BBC. They're soft-touch neoliberal apologists at the best of times.

I am pretty sure TV listening is not a private company, as in trades as a PLC/Ltd! do you have proof to substantiate this?

The licence fee is then formally set by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport by the use of Statutory Instruments.

The BBC pursues its licence fee collection and enforcement under the trading name TV Licensing, but contracts much of the task to commercial organisations

Note this difference.

Yes they may have a certain agenda and direction they take, but i have to confess they are rather less basis than much of the other news agency - let me guess, your a Daily Mail reader

----------

I guess they made up all the dirt the former director of news at BBC was dishing. Or are you one of those who refuses to look at information from the other side of the aisle?

Might as well move to Russia where they pretty much only have state sponsored news anymore. You'd feel right at home.

The 'dirt' on their former director is irrelevant, i was simply saying that programme in particular - panorama is usually very objective and well made. Your comment made no sense and was rather obtuse - the state does not control but finance the BBC, completely different - i suggest you read a little before commenting!