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freeman727

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 9, 2009
278
15
I wonder if the primary reason most people are thinking about keeping or returning the Apple Vision Pro is based on income level.

If $3500 doesn't move the needle, then I think it's a toy worth keeping. That $4K could easily go into a bad stock pick and then be worth less than a used AVP a year from now.

I plan on keeping mine and will be using it mostly for entertainment but curious to how it'll be as a productivity tool. Starting to think that the 1TB version is an overkill. I definitely wouldn't keep it if it impacted the ability to pay my mortgage, food on the table, school tuition or spring vacation.

I think the values people place on their properties are all relative. E.g. phone choice, car choice, house choice, etc.

I am prepared to be flamed for this thread. Hard hat on!
 

freeman727

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 9, 2009
278
15
I wonder if the primary reason most people are thinking about keeping or returning the Apple Vision Pro is based on income level.

If $3500 doesn't move the needle, then I think it's a toy worth keeping. That $4K could easily go into a bad stock pick and then be worth less than a used AVP a year from now.

I plan on keeping mine and will be using it mostly for entertainment but curious to how it'll be as a productivity tool. Starting to think that the 1TB version is an overkill. I definitely wouldn't keep it if it impacted the ability to pay my mortgage, food on the table, school tuition or spring vacation.

I think the values people place on their properties are all relative. E.g. phone choice, car choice, house choice, etc.

I am prepared to be flamed for this thread. Hard hat on!

Although clearly Apple is not in the biz to cater to those in the top 10% income bracket but may use them as a test market until they can make the AVP better and cheaper.
 

Disher

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2024
35
29
Well, I was a little on the fence to keep or not with all the haters and Quest comparisons. I went to try a Quest today, my mind is made up. This Quest is a toy, bad graphics, jumpy video, made for a child. Absolutely no comparison, Quest owners, sorry you can`t afford a Vision Pro.
 

pugxiwawa

macrumors 6502
Nov 10, 2009
481
1,082
Sure if you have money to burn and nowhere else to spend, keep the VP.

For rest 99% there's no reason to get VP. At current Gen 1 beta product it's just a toy/gadget for the riches.

Even if you can afford it, there's very little reason to waste 4k on this.
 

roland.g

macrumors 604
Apr 11, 2005
7,417
3,165
Well, I was a little on the fence to keep or not with all the haters and Quest comparisons. I went to try a Quest today, my mind is made up. This Quest is a toy, bad graphics, jumpy video, made for a child. Absolutely no comparison, Quest owners, sorry you can`t afford a Vision Pro.
I have tried the Q2 and it is ok. I had read the Q3 was significantly better than the Q2, but hadn't tried it.

However, the assertion that something made out of plastic or what not that is not as high end as the AVP is "made for a child." is worse the the OPs "I have too much money to care what this cost."
 
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Disher

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2024
35
29
This was the Q3, third gen? What? It`s not the money, I don`t have it, but bang for your buck. All haters cry about the cost, that's about all they can up with for not buying it
 

roland.g

macrumors 604
Apr 11, 2005
7,417
3,165
This was the Q3, third gen? What? It`s not the money, I don`t have it, but bang for your buck. All haters cry about the cost, that's about all they can up with for not buying it
I can afford the AVP and did demo it, but chose not to buy it as I didn't see value, and certainly did not see bang for the buck. It is do doubt a well engineered device but Apple is in its infancy in this product and after watching quite a few reviews and trying it, I simply don't have a use case to justify the purchase. Sure I could throw all that out and simply just buy one as the funds are a non-issue, but I chose not to approach it that way. Yet at the same time, the concept is appealing and for limited use I may consider a Quest 3 to dabble with, knowing that it is more limited and more of a toy, but that I will primarily use it for some media consumption and a few other things. The last thing I would want is to buy an AVP and find that I am actively trying to find use cases to feel better about having bought it. While it doesn't mean much financially, I still don't like lighting money on fire, and this feels like a bit of that.
 

Iskee

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2023
28
80
I do think a large portion of those keeping their AVP are wealthy enough that the $3500+ sunk into it does not negatively impact their budget. It's either that or hardcore tech enthusiasts/developers.

As someone who can also afford the AVP without really missing that money, I still returned mine after 10 days as a matter of principle because I don't think it's worth the money at this point and even if I have no other immediate need for those $4k, you never know what the future holds.
 

klasma

macrumors 603
Jun 8, 2017
6,134
17,178
Well, I was a little on the fence to keep or not with all the haters and Quest comparisons. I went to try a Quest today, my mind is made up. This Quest is a toy, bad graphics, jumpy video, made for a child. Absolutely no comparison, Quest owners, sorry you can`t afford a Vision Pro.
It’s not a sensible comparison to begin with, because if you want 3D gaming or exercising with motion controllers, which is the main application area of the Quest, the Vision Pro is not an option anyway.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
OP, you realize you could cast this very same premise against ALL of the other products Apple makes, right? All of them have a very healthy Apple premium vs. comparable offerings from others. Anyone feeling too poor for an expensive iPhone can get an Android smart phone for a fraction of the price. Anyone too poor for MBs can get a Windows laptop or Chromebook for a tiny fraction of MB pricing. Fire tablets can be purchased for $100. In fact, for a budget of $350, a person can buy a smart phone + laptop + tablet... just not an Apple phone OR laptop and/or tablet.

No doubt that Vpro can look expensive vs.- say Oculus... just like iPhone can look expensive vs. select Android phones... or Mac SSDs can look insanely expensive against off-the-shelf M.2. There's a stock, middling MBpro priced at $3499 right now. Is that "too expensive" and/or only for the rich?

I get that "we" are wanting to cast Vpro as only something the rich can afford. I fully acknowledge that $3500 can seem like a lot of money to many. But this Apple crowd is the crowd who will fall all over themselves to spend upwards of $1200-$1500 for a new phone every couple of years... and the base MBpro with minimal specs STARTS at only $1K LESS than Vpro. We're not exactly shy about finding meaningful amounts of money for Apple hardware vs. much cheaper alternatives that would be much more affordable.

Why do we do that if money is not plentiful? At least part of it is we will "halo" the offerings... that is, we will look at Apple stuff through a "half full" lens and build up our perceived value until we can justify the relatively high pricing. With this one product, some of us are very much only looking through a "half empty" lens- if not completely empty- and thus not engaging in the usual exercise of finding perceived value to help rationalize the price... even as others are talking up what they like/love about this product.

That shared, to your question: of course, those with more disposable income will find owning Vpro easier than those struggling to pay their monthly core bills. So yes, higher earners will be more likely to buy and/or keep Vpro vs. those with less money. But of course, those with less money may feel exactly the same about iPhone or iPad or Mac computer pricing too- no need to single out Vpro as if it is significantly different in terms of pricing vs. the rest of the product mix.

In general, Apple is relatively expensive in ALL offerings. They sell a thousand dollar monitor stand. They sell $800 wheels. They sell $20 handkerchiefs. For that GEN 1 watch, they rolled out a $17K version. Etc. Those with more money can better afford the Apple premiums on all of it. Those with less money must think more carefully about whether even "the precious" is worth the price vs. Android options that can be had for as little as 1/7th the price. And yet, even the very poor seem to find a way to come up with the money for "the precious." Why? Because they rationalize the value enough to sacrifice in many other ways to find the money.

And it's basically the masses- not the elite- who have made Apple compete for richest company in the world. There's not enough of the 1% to get Apple there.
 
Last edited:

pugxiwawa

macrumors 6502
Nov 10, 2009
481
1,082
OP, you realize you could cast this very same premise against ALL of the other products Apple makes, right? All of them have a very healthy Apple premium vs. comparable offerings from others. Anyone feeling too poor for an expensive iPhone can get an Android smart phone for a fraction of the price. Anyone too poor for MBs can get a Windows laptop or Chromebook for a tiny fraction of MB pricing. Fire tablets can be purchased for $100. In fact, for a budget of $350, a person can buy a smart phone + laptop + tablet... just not an Apple phone OR laptop and/or tablet.

No doubt that Vpro can look expensive vs.- say Oculus... just like iPhone can look expensive vs. select Android phones... or Mac SSDs can look insanely expensive against off-the-shelf M.2. There's a stock, middling MBpro priced at $3499 right now. Is that "too expensive" and/or only for the rich?

I get that "we" are wanting to cast Vpro as only something the rich can afford. I fully acknowledge that $3500 can seem like a lot of money to many. But this Apple crowd is the crowd who will fall all over themselves to spend upwards of $1200-$1500 for a new phone every couple of years... and the base MBpro with minimal specs STARTS at only $1K LESS than Vpro. We're not exactly shy about finding meaningful amounts of money for Apple hardware vs. much cheaper alternatives that would be much more affordable.

Why do we do that if money is not exactly plentiful? At least part of it is we will "halo" the offerings... that is we will look at Apple stuff through a "half full" lens and build up our perceived value until we can justify the relatively high pricing. With this one product, some of us are very much only looking through a "half empty" lens- if not completely empty- and thus not engaging in the usual exercise of finding perceived value to help rationalize the price... even as others are talking up what they like/love about this product.

That shared, to your question: of course, those with more disposable income will find owning Vpro easier than those struggling to pay their monthly core bills. So yes, higher earners will be more likely to buy and/or keep Vpro vs. those with less money. But of course, those with less money may feel exactly the same about iPhone or iPad or Mac computer pricing too- no need to single out Vpro as if it is significantly different in terms of pricing vs. the rest of the product mix.

In general, Apple is relatively expensive in ALL offerings. They sell a thousand dollar monitor stand. They sell $800 wheels. They sell $20 handkerchiefs. For that GEN 1 watch, they rolled out a $17K version. Etc. Those with more money can better afford the Apple premiums on all of it. Those with less money must think more carefully about whether even "the precious" is worth the price vs. Android options that can be had for as little as 1/7th the price. And yet, even the very poor seem to find a way to come up with the money for "the precious." Why? Because they rationalize the value enough to sacrifice in many other ways to find the money.

And it's basically the masses- not the elite- who have made Apple compete for richest company in the world. There's not enough of the 1% to get Apple there.
Like you said, Apple knows there are people who will pay 17k for a first gen watch, 1k for a monitor stand or $800 for a set of wheels. They have conditioned some consumers so successfully that they know there are enough Sheeples out there that can be counted on, who will pay anything for whatever Apple releases and think they are magical. So of course Apple would now come on them to shell out $4k again to help fund the development of 1st gen beta product. Not too much to ask.
 
Last edited:

stiligFox

macrumors 68000
Apr 24, 2009
1,506
1,436
10.0.1.3
Like you said, Apple knows there are people who will pay 17k for a first gen watch, 1k for a monitor stand or $800 for a set of wheels. They have conditioned some consumers so successfully that they know there are enough Sheeples out there that can be counted on, who will pay anything for whatever Apple releases and think they are magical. So of course Apple would now come on them to shell out $4k again to help fund the development of 1st gen beta product. Not too much to ask.
Well, don’t forget businesses too. I can see the VPro being used in a lot of fields (medical, automotive, architectural).

The issue with a lot of big businesses is they will willingly fork over the money, it’s nothing to them. Your animators need Mac Pros with the $800 wheels? Here’s a blank check for a dozen of them. To these big companies it’s simply an expense.

Sort of like how people joke about the military spending $1000 on a simple wrench.

I’ve of the opinion Apple is testing the waters on how this will perform at professional tasks and are charging at such for the lower volume and for the companies that will just pay for it. There was an article a few days ago about a… hospital? I believe it was that purchased 20 of them.

It’s like the old obscenely expensive Xserve servers and the high end Mac Pros now. They look stupidly expensive for consumer devices but in the end, they’re not consumer devices, they’re professional devices that Apple offers to anyone in case some consumers see the value in purchasing them.


At least, that’s my opinion anyway - I’m just a small time streamer so I don’t have any actual insights haha
 
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masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,810
2,736
San Jose, CA
I wonder if the primary reason most people are thinking about keeping or returning the Apple Vision Pro is based on income level.


There other major return segment of the tech-using public appears to be media producers who are using the purchase as a free rental. When I asked who seemed to be returning the headset the most, we got a clear answer.

"It's just the f***ing YouTubers so far," one retail employee exasperatedly told me late on Thursday.

I was amused by the vehemence of the response, and so was rest of the AppleInsider staff when I shared it in our Slack. So, I asked other Apple retail staffers about it.

"Oh yeah, those guys, yeah. Every product, every time," one contact said to me. "I'm going to hunt you down if I hear you returned yours."
 

erikkfi

macrumors 68000
May 19, 2017
1,726
8,087
I agree that the “it’s a VR headset; what could it cost, $4000?” crowd is probably not returning it at the same rate as the lower income brackets.
 

freeman727

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 9, 2009
278
15
i would normally say lower income brackets……but it probably universally gave everyone buyers remorse.
Not me. I preordered but didn’t receive it till 2-12-24. I knew what I would be getting based on all the reviews. I would have canceled my order if I wasn’t happy with what I was hearing and seeing. In certainly wouldn’t want to throw away $4K but find the value in its current abilities to be a great entertainment device during travel and someday a great productivity tool. But income/wealth is a factor here. But I wouldn’t even consider the AVP if I couldn’t afford all this with all the other needs and wants in life.
 

freeman727

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 9, 2009
278
15
OP, you realize you could cast this very same premise against ALL of the other products Apple makes, right? All of them have a very healthy Apple premium vs. comparable offerings from others. Anyone feeling too poor for an expensive iPhone can get an Android smart phone for a fraction of the price. Anyone too poor for MBs can get a Windows laptop or Chromebook for a tiny fraction of MB pricing. Fire tablets can be purchased for $100. In fact, for a budget of $350, a person can buy a smart phone + laptop + tablet... just not an Apple phone OR laptop and/or tablet.

No doubt that Vpro can look expensive vs.- say Oculus... just like iPhone can look expensive vs. select Android phones... or Mac SSDs can look insanely expensive against off-the-shelf M.2. There's a stock, middling MBpro priced at $3499 right now. Is that "too expensive" and/or only for the rich?

I get that "we" are wanting to cast Vpro as only something the rich can afford. I fully acknowledge that $3500 can seem like a lot of money to many. But this Apple crowd is the crowd who will fall all over themselves to spend upwards of $1200-$1500 for a new phone every couple of years... and the base MBpro with minimal specs STARTS at only $1K LESS than Vpro. We're not exactly shy about finding meaningful amounts of money for Apple hardware vs. much cheaper alternatives that would be much more affordable.

Why do we do that if money is not plentiful? At least part of it is we will "halo" the offerings... that is, we will look at Apple stuff through a "half full" lens and build up our perceived value until we can justify the relatively high pricing. With this one product, some of us are very much only looking through a "half empty" lens- if not completely empty- and thus not engaging in the usual exercise of finding perceived value to help rationalize the price... even as others are talking up what they like/love about this product.

That shared, to your question: of course, those with more disposable income will find owning Vpro easier than those struggling to pay their monthly core bills. So yes, higher earners will be more likely to buy and/or keep Vpro vs. those with less money. But of course, those with less money may feel exactly the same about iPhone or iPad or Mac computer pricing too- no need to single out Vpro as if it is significantly different in terms of pricing vs. the rest of the product mix.

In general, Apple is relatively expensive in ALL offerings. They sell a thousand dollar monitor stand. They sell $800 wheels. They sell $20 handkerchiefs. For that GEN 1 watch, they rolled out a $17K version. Etc. Those with more money can better afford the Apple premiums on all of it. Those with less money must think more carefully about whether even "the precious" is worth the price vs. Android options that can be had for as little as 1/7th the price. And yet, even the very poor seem to find a way to come up with the money for "the precious." Why? Because they rationalize the value enough to sacrifice in many other ways to find the money.

And it's basically the masses- not the elite- who have made Apple compete for richest company in the world. There's not enough of the 1% to get Apple there.
That’s part of my point. This is a limited beta product and not currently meant to be a mass market product like the iPhone or even the Apple Watch. It will become more mass market (not to the same degree as the other two examples) when Apple figures out the best use case and figures out how to massively trim the cost (e.g. cut out the useless front screen and source cheaper micro-OLED). For now it’s an expensive play thing and experimental tool for well healed companies.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,276
32,891
For now it’s an expensive play thing and experimental tool for well healed companies.

It will become more mass market (not to the same degree as the other two examples) when Apple figures out the best use case

I'd probably tweak this to "if Apple figures out the best use case"

This type of product isn't new at all ... and the market has basically figured it out.

Cool movie and visual experience viewing and, to a much larger degree, gaming

Apple has to figure out the controller thing.

Twitter and Mastodon are filled with game devs who are literally laughing at how bad AVP is for games (on the control front) without a controller story.
 

anticipate

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2013
904
738
I wonder if the primary reason most people are thinking about keeping or returning the Apple Vision Pro is based on income level.

If $3500 doesn't move the needle, then I think it's a toy worth keeping. That $4K could easily go into a bad stock pick and then be worth less than a used AVP a year from now.

I plan on keeping mine and will be using it mostly for entertainment but curious to how it'll be as a productivity tool. Starting to think that the 1TB version is an overkill. I definitely wouldn't keep it if it impacted the ability to pay my mortgage, food on the table, school tuition or spring vacation.

I think the values people place on their properties are all relative. E.g. phone choice, car choice, house choice, etc.

I am prepared to be flamed for this thread. Hard hat on!
yes. This is a value question. If someone loves football or Taylor Swift, they might not blink an eye to spending 5000 on one single show or game.

I have work a lot for 4 grand (maybe not as much as some people but I’m old so it feels like a lot lol) But I get value out of being able to escape from a very stressful job from this device without feeling like the image or ecosystem is compromised.

People asked the same things about the first iPod or iPhone.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,276
32,891
People asked the same things about the first iPod or iPhone.

Both of which had immediate "wow, this is awesome, I love it!" for essentially everyone that used them.
Both were RIDICULOUSLY intuitive also -- You just "got it", easily, and enjoyed all aspects of it straight away, with both iPhone and iPod.

AVP ≠ iPhone or iPod

Nothing similar about them whatsoever.
 
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