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cthompson94

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2022
802
1,156
SoCal
I think part of it has to do with who you are around family, friends, or both. I had a coworker and she swore up and down she wouldn't like an iPhone. Something went wrong with her and her husbands pre-order for some galaxy phone through the carrier and they both needed a phone since husband was deploying and her phone recently broke and they only thing the carrier had in stock were iPhone 12 pro max and the A series line of Galaxy devices. They got the iPhone and although I can say that I have been told the husband still doesn't like the iPhone, my previous coworker recently purchased an Apple Watch and I asked her about how she felt about the phone now (it has been about 7 or so months) and she doesn't mind it at all now that she is familiar with where most things are now and loves the camera reaction time with hitting the shutter button.

Her husband is really anti Apple and I firmly believe that while he is still on deployment and she has had time to use the iPhone and basically develop her own take on it instead of hearing one or both constantly complaining about the switch. Like she did complain about the time to transfer the photos and I explained how that wasn't really an Apple problem depending how large the library is photo/video that could have very well been your internet I know it depends how you start the transfer process.

I have had my gripes with Apple sometimes, but I can say I know more people who bought an Apple product and are more satisfied then the other way around, but they have to be willing to embrace the learning curve without outside interference like friends or family almost talking down to you trying something
 
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Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,642
13,143
UK
My wife is one. She can't articulate why, she just doesn't like anything Apple. At one job she got stuck with an iPhone as her work device, and she loathed it, and it's only gotten worse from there. So I have to keep her stocked in Android phones and tablets and Windows laptops. Me, I'm more platform agnostic, and prefer the "I buy the device that works best for my needs/makes the most financial sense" approach. But she'll never get there...
My husband doesn’t really like Apple. He just moans about Apple devices being “expensive for nothing”. All of his cheap stuff is always breaking but he doesn’t her the point about spending more and the product lasting longer. We have a 7 year old MacBook Air that’s still going strong which I’ve given him to use as I upgraded to a more recent MacBook Air. He accepts that it’s 7 years old and has far out lasted any of his windows laptops but still moans that Apple products are expensive and he wouldn’t buy one for himself.
 

satcomer

Suspended
Feb 19, 2008
9,115
1,973
The Finger Lakes Region
My husband doesn’t really like Apple. He just moans about Apple devices being “expensive for nothing”. All of his cheap stuff is always breaking but he doesn’t her the point about spending more and the product lasting longer. We have a 7 year old MacBook Air that’s still going strong which I’ve given him to use as I upgraded to a more recent MacBook Air. He accepts that it’s 7 years old and has far out lasted any of his windows laptops but still moans that Apple products are expensive and he wouldn’t buy one for himself.

I bet he's a gamer or right to repair kind of guy, whatever floats his boat! Besides everybody should not hate other peoples choices in Life, we hav't walked in their shoes! Besides Life is to short to hate anything, I say this Vet that saw young friends die while on duty! Life is too short to hate!
 

BootsWalking

macrumors 68020
Feb 1, 2014
2,270
14,203
It's silly to hate Apple for no reason since there are plenty of legitimate reasons available - avarice, hypocritical (privacy, human rights), anticompetitive behavior, slow to admit issues with their products.

There are lots of reasons to like Apple too. Fantastic products, innovative, good customer service, local support (retail stores), long-term software support, respectful of human rights and privacy (if you live in the right countries).
 

wonderings

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2021
660
556
Too many people care what other people think about Apple.
That is when people go beyond it being a tool and make it a status thing. Why did people put Apple stickers on their car? I don't get my self worth from any product. If the tool works for me then great, if not I go to what will.
 
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MBAir2010

macrumors 603
May 30, 2018
6,433
5,920
there
Too many people care what other people think about Apple.
Seems to me that recently everyone does not like their "Comfort Zone" altered.
Both systems perform the same tasks, even when they are using computers for entertainment only.

i wish i can stick with my Dell and windows 10 while forget about Monterey and BigSur and the future OS.
But the years of using Apple products just has me trying to figure out things that are not supposed to happen.
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,341
Beverly, Massachusetts
Herd mentality ?‍♂️
Herd mentality applies to Apple users too along with Android, Windows, Linux, etc. I like Apple, and use their products exclusively, but I don't worship the company like some folks here and on other forums do. I have plenty of complains and gripes. Overall the good outweighs the bad, so I stick with them. It's a faceless/soulless corporation, not a god.
 
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AppleNooble

macrumors regular
May 14, 2021
120
23
I used to be one of those Apple haters. I decided to give it a chance and have been using a Mac Mini M1 for over a year now as my main computer to really run it through its paces. Also purchased an iPad Air 4. Yesterday I was ready to throw Safari out the window and it was the last thing that I really hated about Apple. Today I watched some videos and read some posts on how to use Safari and now I don't know how I'll use Chrome from now on on Windows!
I would now consider myself OS agnostic. Each has its strong and weak points, but overall, if you take the time to learn one thing or the other, it stops bothering you. I think in general, people are just stuck in their ways and any new way of doing old things is confronting. Windows users forget that it took them years to learn all the tips and tricks of Windows. It takes a while, but you can learn to use Apple's stuff to the same level. But you need to devote time to learn it.
Sure the iPad Air frustrates me sometimes. Fingers are fat, so misclicking is really easy. Watching or reading is fine, but navigation with your fingers is just downright hostile to be honest. But I also remember that I'm able to take notes with the Apple Pencil which is why I bought the thing in the first place. This outweighs the navigation negatives.
That's the key, you need to actively learn how to use something before it stops frustrating you and use the right tool for the job. Anything foreign is always going to be "worse". You need to accept that MacOS, iOS, Windows etc are just tools. You need to learn the tools and accept their deficiencies and take advantage of their advantages. That's all.
 
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Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,642
13,143
UK
I used to be one of those Apple haters. I decided to give it a chance and have been using a Mac Mini M1 for over a year now as my main computer to really run it through its paces. Also purchased an iPad Air 4. Yesterday I was ready to throw Safari out the window and it was the last thing that I really hated about Apple. Today I watched some videos and read some posts on how to use Safari and now I don't know how I'll use Chrome from now on on Windows!
I would now consider myself OS agnostic. Each has its strong and weak points, but overall, if you take the time to learn one thing or the other, it stops bothering you. I think in general, people are just stuck in their ways and any new way of doing old things is confronting. Windows users forget that it took them years to learn all the tips and tricks of Windows. It takes a while, but you can learn to use Apple's stuff to the same level. But you need to devote time to learn it.
Sure the iPad Air frustrates me sometimes. Fingers are fat, so misclicking is really easy. Watching or reading is fine, but navigation with your fingers is just downright hostile to be honest. But I also remember that I'm able to take notes with the Apple Pencil which is why I bought the thing in the first place. This outweighs the navigation negatives.
That's the key, you need to actively learn how to use something before it stops frustrating you and use the right tool for the job. Anything foreign is always going to be "worse". You need to accept that MacOS, iOS, Windows etc are just tools. You need to learn the tools and accept their deficiencies and take advantage of their advantages. That's all.
It’s interesting that you talk about windows users learning how to use the OS over years. Up until 2015 I was a windows user, so I used it for 20 years before switching to Mac for my personal computing system. I still use windows at work and more recently I have a work from home job but I have to use a company device which is a windows machine. I quite despise windows for a lot of reasons that I won’t go into here. However I still think that I am more proficient on a windows machine than a Mac. Like you said I used it for many more years than I’ve used the Mac and that muscle memory sticks.
 

russell_314

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2019
6,046
9,006
USA
It’s interesting that you talk about windows users learning how to use the OS over years. Up until 2015 I was a windows user, so I used it for 20 years before switching to Mac for my personal computing system. I still use windows at work and more recently I have a work from home job but I have to use a company device which is a windows machine. I quite despise windows for a lot of reasons that I won’t go into here. However I still think that I am more proficient on a windows machine than a Mac. Like you said I used it for many more years than I’ve used the Mac and that muscle memory sticks.
I don't see a learning curve in either one. Maybe for someone who never used a computer but I regularly switch from macOS, Windows and Chrome OS and most basic things are self explanatory. There are things I like about each one and when I'm using another I miss that thing but I don't sit there confused trying to figure out how to do something.

Of course everyone is different so maybe it's not like that with everyone. I recently had a 30 minute phone call with a relative that is about my age trying to help them scan a document. There was a big button on the screen that said capture image or something like that and it could have been Waldo from where's Waldo to them 🤣
 

AppleNooble

macrumors regular
May 14, 2021
120
23
I don't see a learning curve in either one. Maybe for someone who never used a computer but I regularly switch from macOS, Windows and Chrome OS and most basic things are self explanatory. There are things I like about each one and when I'm using another I miss that thing but I don't sit there confused trying to figure out how to do something.

Of course everyone is different so maybe it's not like that with everyone. I recently had a 30 minute phone call with a relative that is about my age trying to help them scan a document. There was a big button on the screen that said capture image or something like that and it could have been Waldo from where's Waldo to them 🤣
I'm not talking about basic functionality of opening programs and typing text using your keyboard into which ever text editor you opened. There is a lot more depth to an OS than just this. I don't know about you but, CMD+SHIFT+4 isn't self explanatory or intuitive. That's just the screenshot functionality. There's a lot of random stuff in whatever OS you try that is certainly not self explanatory and you need to look up to be able to do. How do you uninstall apps on a Mac? It's not just dragging the app icon into the recycling bin (although it sometimes ?usually? is.). On Windows, you are left with registry entries which you need to delete in order to really get rid of a program. And it goes on. If you start doing anything more advanced, good luck figuring out how to do it yourself on any OS.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,025
The amount of cancelled accounts on the first few pages. I think this thread takes first place for that.

I used Windows since I was a kid. I work in Windows to this day. I’ve got certs that show my proficiency with Windows. But I went Mac for my personal computing in 2015. My first choice to go iPhone was met with ridicule (used to be an android rooter with the Note 3). Droid 1 with Pete’s Bugless Beast!!! I’ve built gaming machines by hand and even installed heat sinks on CPUs. But my choice for personal computing is Mac. I love Mac OS. I have a heavy tech and some programming in my background and yes I have opinions on both. I use both operating systems daily.

Variety is the spice of life. What people do is interesting to me. I might join in the fun but when it’s time to be serious - can’t imagine making fun of someone for their choices of OS.

Apple, Windows, Android need competition.
 

russell_314

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2019
6,046
9,006
USA
I'm not talking about basic functionality of opening programs and typing text using your keyboard into which ever text editor you opened. There is a lot more depth to an OS than just this.
Specifically what are you talking about? CLI functions? One thing that always drove me crazy is Microsoft's marketing. I remember they would advertise the "Vista Experience" but never really said what that was. I find most people spend their time in an app rather than navigating the OS. I think many people who become these super fans of a specific OS are trying to make reasons that really aren't that important. I know some people have specfic needs but for I'd say over 90% of people the OS choice isn't going to make or break what they're doing.

I don't know about you but, CMD+SHIFT+4 isn't self explanatory or intuitive. That's just the screenshot functionality. There's a lot of random stuff in whatever OS you try that is certainly not self explanatory and you need to look up to be able to do.
I agree that keyboard shortcuts are different but TBH most people even on Windows don't use them outside of CTRL+ C/X/V

How do you uninstall apps on a Mac? It's not just dragging the app icon into the recycling bin (although it sometimes ?usually? is.). On Windows, you are left with registry entries which you need to delete in order to really get rid of a program. And it goes on. If you start doing anything more advanced, good luck figuring out how to do it yourself on any OS.
How much time do you spend installing and uninstalling apps on your computer? Occasionally I'll find a new app that interests me and if I don't like it I'll uninstall it. I don't think most people spend a significant amount of time doing that. Maybe if you're just really bored and want to try different things but that can get people in trouble sometimes. I've heard people say you need a cleaner program on Mac or Windows to remove trace files or registry entries but most of the time people should just leave it alone. This is how they break their computer.
 

Fred Zed

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2019
5,055
5,956
Florida Unfortunately
It’s interesting that you talk about windows users learning how to use the OS over years. Up until 2015 I was a windows user, so I used it for 20 years before switching to Mac for my personal computing system. I still use windows at work and more recently I have a work from home job but I have to use a company device which is a windows machine. I quite despise windows for a lot of reasons that I won’t go into here. However I still think that I am more proficient on a windows machine than a Mac. Like you said I used it for many more years than I’ve used the Mac and that muscle memory sticks.
Yep. I feel you. I was a wind blows user for 40 years.
 
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AppleNooble

macrumors regular
May 14, 2021
120
23
Specifically what are you talking about? CLI functions? One thing that always drove me crazy is Microsoft's marketing. I remember they would advertise the "Vista Experience" but never really said what that was. I find most people spend their time in an app rather than navigating the OS. I think many people who become these super fans of a specific OS are trying to make reasons that really aren't that important. I know some people have specfic needs but for I'd say over 90% of people the OS choice isn't going to make or break what they're doing.


I agree that keyboard shortcuts are different but TBH most people even on Windows don't use them outside of CTRL+ C/X/V


How much time do you spend installing and uninstalling apps on your computer? Occasionally I'll find a new app that interests me and if I don't like it I'll uninstall it. I don't think most people spend a significant amount of time doing that. Maybe if you're just really bored and want to try different things but that can get people in trouble sometimes. I've heard people say you need a cleaner program on Mac or Windows to remove trace files or registry entries but most of the time people should just leave it alone. This is how they break their computer.
The best way I can describe this is that when I got on to the Mac, it did stuff that was unexpected to a Windows user. Things weren't behaving as expected. Some things you needed to get used to, for other things you needed to play around with in the settings. Until the system does what you expect at all times, you're learning. That's what I'm trying to get at. It has taken me roughly a year to sort out pretty much everything. Now I am no longer frustrated and I can get down and work.
Off the top of my head:
- The whole Apple ecosystem is foreign to me and I generally don't use its functionality e.g. having the same tabs in Safari on your iPad as you were viewing on the Mac mini. I turned this off because it was behaving in ways that I didn't expect and never really cared to learn it. Airdrop is useful, I use that, I'm happy with it.
- When you click the red circle at the top of any window, you expect the program to close.
- Installing programs was not obvious to me. Simply dragging the icon of the program to the Applications folder did not occur to me. I had to look it up.
- Showing hidden files is simple, if you know how. Different on any OS. The worst part is not knowing that MacOS also has hidden files. I banged my head a few times against the keyboard until I learned that MacOS too has hidden files.

As for CLI, let's face it, CLI is 95% of the time is a simple copy paste. In the remaining 5% of the time, you're doing things that require you to understand how to create custom commands and are doing things that basically mean you're a developer. At this point you're well advanced in your Computer Science degree or career and you know how things work.

The worst part is that the shortcuts are universal until they aren't. As I mentioned, I learned how to take a screenshot just a few days ago. The screenshot button on your keyboard is something you expect to do as what it says on the tin. But it doesn't. I did find that most shortcuts were similar to Windows, except for a few exceptions, so I had to look them up. Again, requires learning new tricks. But yes, shortcuts aren't a biggie, I mostly just use copy, paste and close tab and re-open closed tab in Safari.

Installing and uninstalling programs might not happen all that often, but you still need to do it properly. So again, you need to learn about this. Until you learn how to do it properly, expect unexpected behaviour. You might have broken a program and to reset it would mean requiring a fresh install. Only you don't know how to get rid of all the files, so you re-install the program only to find that the old program persists. On Windows, sometimes you need to go the regedit and delete some lingering files. I've run into a program on Mac that required me to go into some random file locations to purge it of lingering files. Again, I had to research these things.

Sure, Google is your friend in all of this, which basically means that anything is doable, but at the end of the day, there's a learning curve. The worst part about the learning process is trying to figure out something that you don't know is a thing. Not knowing the name of a functionality or if that functionality even exists. That's what makes the whole process a process.

Variety is the spice of life. What people do is interesting to me. I might join in the fun but when it’s time to be serious - can’t imagine making fun of someone for their choices of OS.

Apple, Windows, Android need competition.
Totally agree, until I opened up my mind to something new, I was full of biased opinions about MacOS, I had to decide to give it a go, before my opinions had any chance of changing.
I had a coworker who was very pro Linux and he always came up with some of the greatest Windows statements. “Internet Exploder, Outbreak, etc.” Haha. :)
Outbreak! What a fitting name haha!
 
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TheAppleGuySL

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2022
5
1
An actual conversation with my friend while back:
Him: I got the new iPhone Pro, but I don't really like it.
Me: Why's that?
Him: It's heavier and there's not much different than my old phone.
Me: Ok, you have more lenses now. Do you use the camera at least?
Him: No, not really.
Me: Well, what about ProMotion? Do you like that?
Him: What's ProMotion?
Me: Nevermind...why did you get the Pro then?
Him: I don't know.
Me: Here, check out my phone (non-pro).
Him: Oh, I like this...

Needless to say, his next iPhone was the regular one.
To each their own
 

Timo_Existencia

Contributor
Jan 2, 2002
1,226
2,505
....some blindly defend [Apple]
See...this is the argument I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND! :)

I LOVE my BMW GSA 1250. NOBODY calls me a BMW Fan Boy. Nobody questions my love for the bike. To be clear, there are people who love and hate different brands of motorcycles. People are loyal to their choice. But not once, ever, has anyone called me a name for loving my motorcycle. Are Harley Owners "fan boys?" Of course they are, but nobody holds that against them.

Who cares if I "blindly defend" my BMW? NOBODY. People seem to understand that I have my own preferences, and that it doesn't affect them.

AND, I don't think this has to do with Apple suddenly being a $3 Trillion dollar company. People hated Apple when they had 5% market share and Microsoft bailed them out to the tune of $150 million. The DOS guys were forever ridiculing Apple. The hate has ALWAYS existed.

So, really, I've come to see it as something pathological in those who not just hate, but who then go out of their way to try to belittle people who love Apple products. Who spend time on a website devoted to Apple to try to belittle Apple fans. It's twisted.
 
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boss.king

macrumors 603
Apr 8, 2009
6,143
6,904
See...this is the argument I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND! :)

I LOVE my BMW GSA 1250. NOBODY calls me a BMW Fan Boy. Nobody questions my love for the bike. To be clear, there are people who love and hate different brands of motorcycles. People are loyal to their choice. But not once, ever, has anyone called me a name for loving my motorcycle. Are Harley Owners "fan boys?" Of course they are, but nobody holds that against them.

Who cares if I "blindly defend" my BMW? NOBODY. People seem to understand that I have my own preferences, and that it doesn't affect them.

AND, I don't think this has to do with Apple suddenly being a $3 Trillion dollar company. People hated Apple when they had 5% market share and Microsoft bailed them out to the tune of $150 million. The DOS guys were forever ridiculing Apple. The hate has ALWAYS existed.

So, really, I've come to see it as something pathological in those who not just hate, but who then go out of their way to try to belittle people who love Apple products. Who spend time on a website devoted to Apple to try to belittle Apple fans. It's twisted.
I had to go back and see what post you were quoting to remind myself of what I had even said (and, wow, it's a post from almost two years ago. This is some solid thread necromancy.)

Regardless, you seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. There's a difference between really loving something and blindly defending that thing. I can really love my iPhone, but also acknowledge that there are things about it that I don't like or things from other devices that I prefer. Blind defence would be purposefully pretending that it's a perfect device that has no flaws and needs no improvement.
 
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Timo_Existencia

Contributor
Jan 2, 2002
1,226
2,505
I just perused this thread, here on MacRumors:

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Not a single "anger" emoji. No silly arguments back and forth. Nobody calling anybody an "Android Fan Boy" or belittling the devices they like, or love. Right here, within the heart of Mac online discussion, a whole group of people are able to discuss an Android phone in peace. They can like what they like without having to defend it. Not once did anyone call Samsung evil. It was surprisingly calm and normal, just like in the forums for every other product I like and buy, other than Apple products.

It's really jarring to see the difference.
 

Timo_Existencia

Contributor
Jan 2, 2002
1,226
2,505
I had to go back and see what post you were quoting to remind myself of what I had even said (and, wow, it's a post from almost two years ago. This is some solid thread necromancy.)

Regardless, you seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. There's a difference between really loving something and blindly defending that thing. I can really love my iPhone, but also acknowledge that there are things about it that I don't like or things from other devices that I prefer. Blind defence would be purposefully pretending that it's a perfect device that has no flaws and needs no improvement.
But you continue to make my point. I criticize Apple all the time, but it doesn't diminish my love for their products. Just like I criticize BMW about many things on my motorcycle. But I never even come close to concluding that BMW is evil or awful or there's something wrong with anyone who like BMW motorcycles.

See the post I made just above this one, where I read through a thread, here on Macrumors, all about the Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra. The tone is one of respect. Not one of "debate" or anger or having to prove who is right and who is wrong.

I didn't mean to single you out specifically.

Nobody ever questions my blind love of my BMW motorcycle. Why does anybody need to question it about my love for Apple products?
 
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